cosanostra Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Hartley didn't score the goals from crosses in the way that Cameron or Scholes did. Scholes and Cameron were both brilliant at timing late runs into the box for cut backs. Hartley never had that football intelligence I think, and he scored his goals from charging straight into the box. It is very rare that players have that 'late run' ability. We have nobody at all at the moment who has it. Hartley scored a fair few like that, especially against the Hobos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Hartley scored a fair few like that, especially against the Hobos. Hard to describe what I am meaning really. Those were for the most part 'runs' into the box. Not 'late runs'. I am aware of how daft that sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boabyarsebiscuit Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Hard to describe what I am meaning really. Those were for the most part 'runs' into the box. Not 'late runs'. I am aware of how daft that sounds. Was his goal in his last derby (3-2, Miko winner) a run or a late-run? I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi_is_a_goal_machine Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Ok, I've read on this forum many times, the merits of both of these players. Tonight, Step up to the rostrum Mr Frank Lampard. Congratulations on reaching the Champions League Final. A man who who has lost his Mother, turns up on a Sunday, a few days after her death, tells the manager he is able to play. Not only does Frank Lampard play, he turns in a magnificent performance in front of watching millions (and his grieving father) has the bottle to step up to the plate and take a penalty in a pressure situation, plays some sublime telling passes during the game and helps his team qualify for the Final. I don't recall Steven Gerrard being so influencial for Liverpool tonight, or , to be honest at many BIG games for his club, or Country. A real leader on the field, perhaps something that Hearts have been lacking since Pressley? Well done Frank, your Mother would be very proud and I'm sure your family are. I expect a torrent of vitriol from KB posters, but I think the lad was magnificent tonight and deserves a lot of respect. Well done Frank, good luck in the Final.... have u lost your mind?????? champions league final 2005 f.a cup final 2006 oh wait, are those two not big games? and as for the country thing, who has, for england stood head and shoulders above the rest? and the season they won the champions league, they were getting knocked out in the group stages with only two minutes to play and gerrard pulled a 25yarder out the bag to send them through think before u speak eh! stevie g would give roy of the rovers a run for his money!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikey Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 have u lost your mind?????? champions league final 2005 f.a cup final 2006 oh wait, are those two not big games? and as for the country thing, who has, for england stood head and shoulders above the rest? and the season they won the champions league, they were getting knocked out in the group stages with only two minutes to play and gerrard pulled a 25yarder out the bag to send them through think before u speak eh! stevie g would give roy of the rovers a run for his money!!! Totally agree. Lampard is a good player. Gerrard is a fantastic player, one of the best in the world. For some to suggest he hasnt performed in big games is patently ridiculous. Congratulations to Chelsea, though, and i hope they stuff man u in the final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bindy Badgy Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Has Gerrard performed in big games recently? Everyone talks about the 05 Champions League final but that was a couple of years ago now. Everytime I've seen them recently he hasn't stood out that much. Admittedly I don't watch them very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Nowt to do with the debate here but is it just me or do all of Lampards goals seem to take a deflection?! It's remarkable how many deflected goals he has scored! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Sorry but that is nonsense. Scholes is STILL better than those two and he's nearing the end of his career. Not sure where you get the 'rarely scores' comment from either! Tuesday was his first in 8 months, that's probably where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Nowt to do with the debate here but is it just me or do all of Lampards goals seem to take a deflection?! It's remarkable how many deflected goals he has scored! When you shoot 10 times a match then ones likely to find its way in off someones backside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Tuesday was his first in 8 months, that's probably where. Scholes had been injured for a large part of the season. Sure he had a serious eye injury and then a knee injury. Are you just forgetting about the rest of his career then and basing your opinion on 8 months?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Scholes had been injured for a large part of the season. Sure he had a serious eye injury and then a knee injury. Are you just forgetting about the rest of his career then and basing your opinion on 8 months?! Only twice has he managed double figures in his career (14 and 10). Good for a holding midfielder but for a player who isn't the best in the tackle and who strengths lie elsewhere its hardly setting the heather on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboSean Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Jose Moruinho won Chelsea the league in 2004/5 - even with Lampard et al, before the Special One they were in pretty much the same situation as Liverpool - 2nd/3rd/4th, but nowhere near United and Arsenal. Wasn't dissing Lampard as such, just stating that perhaps sympathy has caused people to exggerate how good he was tonight. I'm not debating it muct have been difficult for the guy to play, but he wasn't the best player on the park. Chelsea reached the Champions League semi final the season before Mourinho. They also reached a point total that would have been suffice to win the league almost every season if it had not been for the unbeaten Arsenal side. If your going to post, do some research next time. As for Lampard vs Gerard. Me and my mates have debated this to death. If you want an attacking midfielder, you want Lampard. If you want a complete centre midfielder, you want Gerard. It all depends on where you'd play them. If I had to pick one, it would be Lampard, but I'm always going to say that. Essien vs Gerard would have been a better debate, very similar players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Only twice has he managed double figures in his career (14 and 10). Good for a holding midfielder but for a player who isn't the best in the tackle and who strengths lie elsewhere its hardly setting the heather on fire. You have a strange view of Scholes mate. He's been probably about the best and most consistent players in the Premiership over the last 10 years. The guy has been brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 You have a strange view of Scholes mate. He's been probably about the best and most consistent players in the Premiership over the last 10 years. The guy has been brilliant. He has been consistent, at being better than average. Just fail to see what he really contributes other than good passing and the occasional goal. He is a good player, but hugely over rated by people thinking he is doing more than he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 He has been consistent, at being better than average. Just fail to see what he really contributes other than good passing and the occasional goal. He is a good player, but hugely over rated by people thinking he is doing more than he is. Ah come on, when Man U had him and Keane in the middle, he was absolutely dynamite. Made as many as he scored and scored plenty. The Man United fans absolutely love him and no wonder, he's been a terrific player. Probably top 10 in premiership history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupar Jambo Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Sorry, sir. Lampard did a job tonight. Much to your chagrin, obviously. Champions League semi final. Time to get the "Job done". Ball doesn't cross the line after Baros goes in feet up on the keeper? "Job done". Keeper moves forward onto 6 yard line before penalty shoot-out kicks are struck? "Job done". Frank Lampard, whose mother died SIX days ago, makes one goal, steps up and scores a crucial penalty at a key point in the game after Liverpool have dominated the whole of the second half of normal time and the ref has disallowed a perfectly good goal from Essien 2 minutes prior. "JOB ****ING DONE!" Go and make some crap beeps you call music, or just go and spew because you lost tonight. Tonight belongs to us. "JOB DONE!" Enjoy because Utd will destroy you in the final with a midfielder better than Gerrard or the vastly overated Lampard in Carrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Ian Malcolm Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Chelsea reached the Champions League semi final the season before Mourinho. They also reached a point total that would have been suffice to win the league almost every season if it had not been for the unbeaten Arsenal side. If your going to post, do some research next time. As for Lampard vs Gerard. Me and my mates have debated this to death. If you want an attacking midfielder, you want Lampard. If you want a complete centre midfielder, you want Gerard. It all depends on where you'd play them. If I had to pick one, it would be Lampard, but I'm always going to say that. Essien vs Gerard would have been a better debate, very similar players. Wasn't really debating their CL performance - Ranieri campares to Jose in that respect. Fair enough, but second place is second place, no matter how good the team in first was. It was only under Mourinho that they did actually win the league, ragradless of what their points total was any other season - no matter of how well Ranieiri's side did, they didn't win the league. Was more debating the fact that it wasn't Lampard that won Chelsea the league in 04/05, it was mainly Mourinho's influence, although Lampard dod make a significant contrbution. Good shout with Essien and Gerrard. I think Gerrard has, for want of a better term, suffered in terms of success by remaining so loyal to Liverpool. I don't hin there's any debate that he's good enough for the likes of United and Chelsea, its just that his loyalty t Liverpool has maybe cost him the trophies - trophies that less talented players have won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber Harris' Best Mate Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 In one specific Lampard/Gerrard game you have to agree that Lampard came out on top. Take the two players as a whole though and over the piece you'd be lucky if Gerrard would let Lampard clean his boots. lol, listen to the Liverpool loving media and you'd be right, over the season, in all competitions, Gerrard just doesnt turn up enough, especially the league, its all about his ego, the exact reason he didnt get involved in many 50-50 challenges last night, incase he missed the final as he was one yellow card away. But the media will still tell you he'd run through hell to get his club in the final even if it meant he missed it, its a lot of rubbish. Given the choice, for what each player gives you as end product, I'd have Lampard all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber Harris' Best Mate Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Enjoy because Utd will destroy you in the final with a midfielder better than Gerrard or the vastly overated Lampard in Carrick what like Saturday just past ? United didnt deserve to be on the same field as Chelsea, only given any hope through a horrific Carvalho error. And the FA Cup Final which Chelsea won ?? Good arguement though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 He has been consistent, at being better than average. Just fail to see what he really contributes other than good passing and the occasional goal. He is a good player, but hugely over rated by people thinking he is doing more than he is. I think Sir Alex Ferguson knows a bit more than you or I so I will trust him. Apparently SAF said Scholes is the only United player never to have had the hairdryer treatment because he is THAT good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Ah come on, when Man U had him and Keane in the middle, he was absolutely dynamite. Made as many as he scored and scored plenty. The Man United fans absolutely love him and no wonder, he's been a terrific player. Probably top 10 in premiership history. Top 10 in EPL history, bollox. He has scored plenty? As I said, only twice has he made double figures and one of those occasions it was only 10 goals. As for Alan Partridge, trusting AF is right, he is a fantastic manager. But he also has favourites that he overates. See Brown and Fletcher, under any other manager they would at best, feature 4-5 times for a team like Man U. Yes, Scholes is a really good player but he is hugle overated by many, including Sir alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Top 10 in EPL history, bollox. He has scored plenty? As I said, only twice has he made double figures and one of those occasions it was only 10 goals. As for Alan Partridge, trusting AF is right, he is a fantastic manager. But he also has favourites that he overates. See Brown and Fletcher, under any other manager they would at best, feature 4-5 times for a team like Man U. Yes, Scholes is a really good player but he is hugle overated by many, including Sir alex. Scholes is the best midfielder in Premiership history in my opinion. One of the few players who can set the pace of a Premiership game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boabyarsebiscuit Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Enjoy because Utd will destroy you in the final with a midfielder better than Gerrard or the vastly overated Lampard in Carrick I love it when plastic scousers get upset. This losing lark wasn't part of the deal when you picked Liverpool as your English team, eh? Still unlike most of your plastic compadres on here, at least you've shown up on the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Scholes is the best midfielder in Premiership history in my opinion.One of the few players who can set the pace of a Premiership game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgie rd eh11 Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 I love it when plastic scousers get upset. This losing lark wasn't part of the deal when you picked Liverpool as your English team, eh? Still unlike most of your plastic compadres on here, at least you've shown up on the thread. You couldn't make it up, chelsea going on about plastic fans. How do you know how anybody got their english team. As for the thread they're both great players but Gerrard shades it for me. He's dragged Liverpool to places the current team would struggle to reach without him. Whereas Lampard has much more to help his cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Who would you suggest is the best midfielder in Premiership history? Not talking about one off seasons, but someone over the piece who has been the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi_is_a_goal_machine Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Who would you suggest is the best midfielder in Premiership history? Not talking about one off seasons, but someone over the piece who has been the best? colin cameron!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boabyarsebiscuit Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Who would you suggest is the best midfielder in Premiership history? Not talking about one off seasons, but someone over the piece who has been the best? Craig Burley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Who would you suggest is the best midfielder in Premiership history? Not talking about one off seasons, but someone over the piece who has been the best? Keane would be hard to better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Keane would be hard to better. Yes, Keane would be a contender. At his best he was unplayable and could lift a side by himself. Much as Gerrard or Essien can do for their teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfstar Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Gerrard V Lampard I would pick Gerrard. But every time liverpool play a big game Gerrard is out wide and hardly features in the game. Lampard was the better of the 2 on the night, lampard set up and scored a goal, gerrard contributed very little out wide. But i think benitez is more to blame for that than anyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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