Finally, Lampard v Gerrard (non Hearts)

[Riff Raff]

Ok, I've read on this forum many times, the merits of both of these players.

 

Tonight, Step up to the rostrum Mr Frank Lampard.

 

Congratulations on reaching the Champions League Final.

 

A man who who has lost his Mother, turns up on a Sunday, a few days after her death, tells the manager he is able to play.

Not only does Frank Lampard play, he turns in a magnificent performance in front of watching millions (and his grieving father) has the bottle to step up to the plate and take a penalty in a pressure situation, plays some sublime telling passes during the game and helps his team qualify for the Final.

 

I don't recall Steven Gerrard being so influencial for Liverpool tonight, or , to be honest at many BIG games for his club, or Country.

 

A real leader on the field, perhaps something that Hearts have been lacking since Pressley?

Well done Frank, your Mother would be very proud and I'm sure your family are.

 

I expect a torrent of vitriol from KB posters, but I think the lad was magnificent tonight and deserves a lot of respect.

 

Well done Frank, good luck in the Final....

[Eric Shin]

fair play to frank....but i hope his team gets pumped silly in the final

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Frank Lampard is a magnificent player, and tonight was a special night for him.

 

Steven Gerrard is also a magnificent player.

 

Just makes you wonder. How come England couldn't qualify for the Euros?

[Riff Raff]

Boaby, It's a shame eh?!

 

Naebody to hoot at during the tournie!

[Legend Claws]

Because they are a collection of egos and by no means a team.

[Say What Again]

A man who who has lost his Mother, turns up on a Sunday, a few days after her death, tells the manager he is able to play.

Not only does Frank Lampard play, he turns in a magnificent performance in front of watching millions (and his grieving father)

 

Arise Sir Frank.

 

Assuming he is the only person alive who has a parent that's died.

 

Thought he was decent tonight and that was about it. Admittedly though, 'decent' in Frank Lampard terms, is pretty feckin good.

 

Just don't buy in to the gushing over his normal performance because he's lost a parent.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm as sorry he lost his Mum as he would be if I lost mine. Nobody likes to hear of anyone losing a loved one.

 

However, I look forward to you starting a thread here (maybe in the Shed though) when that inevitably happens.

 

I think I get 3 days off my work.

 

 

Sorry if this post offends anyone on a personal level (not because they're a Chelsea fan)

[Ryan Gosling]

I thought Lampard was quiet tonight.

 

He'd have got 6/10 if he didn't hold his nerve.

[Only a Game]

In one specific Lampard/Gerrard game you have to agree that Lampard came out on top.

 

Take the two players as a whole though and over the piece you'd be lucky if Gerrard would let Lampard clean his boots.

[cosanostra]

Arise Sir Frank.

 

Assuming he is the only person alive who has a parent that's died.

 

Thought he was decent tonight and that was about it. Admittedly though, 'decent' in Frank Lampard terms, is pretty feckin good.

 

Just don't buy in to the gushing over his normal performance because he's lost a parent.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm as sorry he lost his Mum as he would be if I lost mine. Nobody likes to hear of anyone losing a loved one.

 

However, I look forward to you starting a thread here (maybe in the Shed though) when that inevitably happens.

 

I think I get 3 days off my work.

 

 

Sorry if this post offends anyone on a personal level (not because they're a Chelsea fan)

 

Mate, exactly what i was about to post.

 

He was ok in the first half and miles off the pace in the 2nd. Contributed very little other than the penalty as was evident by the total lack of support from the middle that Drogba was given. Ballack was far, far better IMO.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Arise Sir Frank.

 

Assuming he is the only person alive who has a parent that's died.

 

Thought he was decent tonight and that was about it. Admittedly though, 'decent' in Frank Lampard terms, is pretty feckin good.

 

Just don't buy in to the gushing over his normal performance because he's lost a parent.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm as sorry he lost his Mum as he would be if I lost mine. Nobody likes to hear of anyone losing a loved one.

 

However, I look forward to you starting a thread here (maybe in the Shed though) when that inevitably happens.

 

I think I get 3 days off my work.

 

 

Sorry if this post offends anyone on a personal level (not because they're a Chelsea fan)

My mum was 57 when she died (Pat Lampard was 58). Which is quite young when you come to think of it. Especially now I'm in my mid 40s. I was quite upset when my mum died. For more than a week.

 

I thought Frank did well tonight. Good pass to Kalou for the 1st goal. And kept his cool admirably to strike home a penalty at a crucial time. Trust me I felt real emotion when Frank scored and cried for his mum.

 

I'm so glad your so upset at tonight's result you'd post such tosh. Hurting, eh?

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Mate, exactly what i was about to post.

 

He was ok in the first half and miles off the pace in the 2nd. Contributed very little other than the penalty as was evident by the total lack of support from the middle that Drogba was given. Ballack was far, far better IMO.

 

Sorry, sir. Lampard did a job tonight. Much to your chagrin, obviously.

 

Champions League semi final. Time to get the "Job done".

 

Ball doesn't cross the line after Baros goes in feet up on the keeper? "Job done".

 

Keeper moves forward onto 6 yard line before penalty shoot-out kicks are struck? "Job done".

 

Frank Lampard, whose mother died SIX days ago, makes one goal, steps up and scores a crucial penalty at a key point in the game after Liverpool have dominated the whole of the second half of normal time and the ref has disallowed a perfectly good goal from Essien 2 minutes prior.

 

"JOB ****ING DONE!"

 

Go and make some crap beeps you call music, or just go and spew because you lost tonight. Tonight belongs to us.

 

"JOB DONE!"

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

I wouldn't say his post was tosh - Lampard had an okay game tonight, but was by no means magnificent. Showed a good bit of bottle to score the pen, but if you asked Lampard himself he'd probably say the only time he was thinking of his mum (in the contect of the game) was after he scored it.

 

He was focused on playing - if he wasn't he probably wouldn't have made himself available. Fair play to the guy for that. I think Sky were a little bit guily of exaggerating his performance through sympathy.

 

I terms of a comparison with Gerrard, for me, whilst Lampard is a good midfielder, Gerrard is a level above. Gerrard offers so much more overall - you won't see Lampard grab the game by the scruff of the neck and drive Chelsea on. Gerrard offers more all round - defensively and offensively. Lampard's goal/assist record this season doesn't comapre to Gerrard's (not sure what its like overall).

 

Before anyone says, I'm not a Liverpool fan.

[cosanostra]

Sorry, sir. Lampard did a job tonight. Much to your chagrin, obviously.

 

Champions League semi final. Time to get the "Job done".

 

Ball doesn't cross the line after Baros goes in feet up on the keeper? "Job done".

 

Keeper moves forward onto 6 yard line before penalty shoot-out kicks are struck? "Job done".

 

Frank Lampard, whose mother died SIX days ago, makes one goal, steps up and scores a crucial penalty at a key point in the game after Liverpool have dominated the whole of the second half of normal time and the ref has disallowed a perfectly good goal from Essien 2 minutes prior.

 

"JOB ****ING DONE!"

 

Go and make some crap beeps you call music, or just go and spew because you lost tonight. Tonight belongs to us.

 

"JOB DONE!"

 

Oh dear.

 

I actually wanted Chelsea to win tonight but don't let that stop your little rant.

 

I can't even imagine how hard it must have been for Lampard and he did well under the circumstances. He showed incredible never to bury the penalty and every neutral could take a lot of pleasure in him achieving so much in such a stressfull time. I'm glad he made it to the Champions League final, he deserved it. His emotional response at the goal was genuinely quite moving as well.

 

However, he did not perform half as well as he is capable of. He struggled throughout the 2nd half and was rightly subbed off. Chelsea played far better when he left the field.

 

I'll ignore your personal insult, your post sounds like you are might be a bit drunk.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

I wouldn't say his post was tosh - Lampard had an okay game tonight, but was by no means magnificent. Showed a good bit of bottle to score the pen, but if you asked Lampard himself he'd probably say the only time he was thinking of his mum (in the contect of the game) was after he scored it.

 

He was focused on playing - if he wasn't he probably wouldn't have made himself available. Fair play to the guy for that. I think Sky were a little bit guily of exaggerating his performance through sympathy.

 

I terms of a comparison with Gerrard, for me, whilst Lampard is a good midfielder, Gerrard is a level above. Gerrard offers so much more overall - you won't see Lampard grab the game by the scruff of the neck and drive Chelsea on. Gerrard offers more all round - defensively and offensively. Lampard's goal/assist record this season doesn't comapre to Gerrard's (not sure what its like overall).

 

Before anyone says, I'm not a Liverpool fan.

 

Frank Lampard pretty much won Chelsea the League in 2004/5.

 

Liverpool have come nowhere near to winning the League in 18 years. Gerrard or not.

 

But it's fashionable to diss Frank.

 

All aboard the zombie train.

 

Toot toot!

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

Jose Moruinho won Chelsea the league in 2004/5 - even with Lampard et al, before the Special One they were in pretty much the same situation as Liverpool - 2nd/3rd/4th, but nowhere near United and Arsenal.

 

Wasn't dissing Lampard as such, just stating that perhaps sympathy has caused people to exggerate how good he was tonight. I'm not debating it muct have been difficult for the guy to play, but he wasn't the best player on the park.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Oh dear.

 

I actually wanted Chelsea to win tonight but don't let that stop your little rant.

 

I can't even imagine how hard it must have been for Lampard and he did well under the circumstances. He showed incredible never to bury the penalty and every neutral could take a lot of pleasure in him achieving so much in such a stressfull time. I'm glad he made it to the Champions League final, he deserved it. His emotional response at the goal was genuinely quite moving as well.

 

However, he did not perform half as well as he is capable of. He struggled throughout the 2nd half and was rightly subbed off. Chelsea played far better when he left the field.

 

I'll ignore your personal insult, your post sounds like you are might be a bit drunk.

 

Not drunk. Just happy.

 

I apologise for my "beeps" jibe.

 

But.

 

If you've not experienced losing your mother yet, let alone at such a young age, late 50s is pretty "young" as I now see it, I was 19 when my mother died, do not dare to trivialise how one feels when having to deal with such a situation.

 

It's beneath you, whatever the press or TV said about it, it is a massive blow to lose a parent.

 

Frank bore up well tonight. And "did a job".

[cosanostra]

Not drunk. Just happy.

 

I apologise for my "beeps" jibe.

 

But.

 

If you've not experienced losing your mother yet, let alone at such a young age, late 50s is pretty "young" as I now see it, I was 19 when my mother died, do not dare to trivialise how one feels when having to deal with such a situation.

 

It's beneath you, whatever the press or TV said about it, it is a massive blow to lose a parent.

 

Frank bore up well tonight. And "did a job".

 

He did.

 

Showed great courage and desire to even play let alone score.

[Bruno]

In one specific Lampard/Gerrard game you have to agree that Lampard came out on top.

 

Take the two players as a whole though and over the piece you'd be lucky if Gerrard would let Lampard clean his boots.

 

Gerrard 97 career goals in 436 games.

Lampard 149 career goals in 562 games.

 

If you want an attacking midfielder, then you probably want the one that scores more goals.

[Only a Game]

Frank Lampard pretty much won Chelsea the League in 2004/5.

 

 

Nothing to do with Terry, Cech, Makalele and Gudjonson then ? Nothing to do with Mourinho. Nothing to do with the ?250million Abramovich spent on players APART from Lampard ?

 

Accept that he had a very decent game tonight, in part driven by his personal circumstances for which only a moron could have anything less than total sympathy.

 

But we're comparing Lampard with Gerrard here and he simply isnt in Gerrard's class.

[vegas-voss]

Gerrard,Lampard none of them as good as the old stager Paul Scholes lets see if these two can still control games at 34 years of age.

[Only a Game]

Gerrard 97 career goals in 436 games.

Lampard 149 career goals in 562 games.

 

If you want an attacking midfielder, then you probably want the one that scores more goals.

 

Hardly anything in it. A goal every 4.5 games compared with a goal every 3.7 games

 

No I'd want the better player, the one who makes the difference. The one who contributes the most

[cosanostra]

Gerrard,Lampard none of them as good as the old stager Paul Scholes lets see if these two can still control games at 34 years of age.

 

I wish Scotland could produce a goalscoring midfielder like one of those 3.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Nothing to do with Terry, Cech, Makalele and Gudjonson then ? Nothing to do with Mourinho. Nothing to do with the ?250million Abramovich spent on players APART from Lampard ?

 

Accept that he had a very decent game tonight, in part driven by his personal circumstances for which only a moron could have anything less than total sympathy.

 

But we're comparing Lampard with Gerrard here and he simply isnt in Gerrard's class.

I think Steven Gerrard is a great player.

 

I think Frank Lampard is a great player.

 

And I think Frank is underrated by the "general public", but what do I know, eh?

 

Your last comment makes no sense to me.

 

Anyway, great night down the Kings Road tonight. Time for bed.

 

Fashion - Turn to the left

Fashion - Turn to the right

We are the goon squad

And we're coming to town

Beep-beep - Beep-beep

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Ok, I've read on this forum many times, the merits of both of these players.

 

Tonight, Step up to the rostrum Mr Frank Lampard.

 

Congratulations on reaching the Champions League Final.

 

A man who who has lost his Mother, turns up on a Sunday, a few days after her death, tells the manager he is able to play.

Not only does Frank Lampard play, he turns in a magnificent performance in front of watching millions (and his grieving father) has the bottle to step up to the plate and take a penalty in a pressure situation, plays some sublime telling passes during the game and helps his team qualify for the Final.

 

I don't recall Steven Gerrard being so influencial for Liverpool tonight, or , to be honest at many BIG games for his club, or Country.

 

A real leader on the field, perhaps something that Hearts have been lacking since Pressley?

Well done Frank, your Mother would be very proud and I'm sure your family are.

 

I expect a torrent of vitriol from KB posters, but I think the lad was magnificent tonight and deserves a lot of respect.

 

Well done Frank, good luck in the Final....

 

Have to disagree with the bold bit.

 

Gerrard almost single-handedly dragged his team back into the 2005 CL final from 3-0 down. he scored the first and was all over the pitch driving the team on. he's the reason they won that night. In fact, not only has Gerrard done it in a big game, his performance that night was one of the greatest captain's performances I've ever seen - for club or country, from anybody.

[vegas-voss]

I wish Scotland could produce a goalscoring midfielder like one of those 3.

 

They are all quality just can't see Lampard and Gerrard adapting there game the way Scholes has in his veteran years.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Have to disagree with the bold bit.

 

Gerrard almost single-handedly dragged his team back into the 2005 CL final from 3-0 down. he scored the first and was all over the pitch driving the team on. he's the reason they won that night. In fact, not only has Gerrard done it in a big game, his performance that night was one of the greatest captain's performances I've ever seen - for club or country, from anybody.

 

Agreed. Great dive for the penalty. Lucky he's not Lithuanian, eh?

[Only a Game]

I wish Scotland could produce a goalscoring midfielder like one of those 3.

 

I was going to mention Kenny Dalglish but I'd suppose he played too far forward most of the time to be considered a true midfield player.

[Bindy Badgy]

I think he showed nerves of steel to score the penalty.

 

If I was the manager there is no way I would of let him anywhere near it.

 

Getting through the game would be relatively easy as you don't really have time to think when the game is in progress. However, befor a penalty you have a few minutes to reflect on other things and putting the death of your mother out of your mind would be incredibly hard to do.

[Walter Bishop]

Ok, I've read on this forum many times, the merits of both of these players.

 

Tonight, Step up to the rostrum Mr Frank Lampard.

 

Congratulations on reaching the Champions League Final.

 

A man who who has lost his Mother, turns up on a Sunday, a few days after her death, tells the manager he is able to play.

Not only does Frank Lampard play, he turns in a magnificent performance in front of watching millions (and his grieving father) has the bottle to step up to the plate and take a penalty in a pressure situation, plays some sublime telling passes during the game and helps his team qualify for the Final.

 

I don't recall Steven Gerrard being so influencial for Liverpool tonight, or , to be honest at many BIG games for his club, or Country.

 

A real leader on the field, perhaps something that Hearts have been lacking since Pressley?

Well done Frank, your Mother would be very proud and I'm sure your family are.

 

I expect a torrent of vitriol from KB posters, but I think the lad was magnificent tonight and deserves a lot of respect.

 

Well done Frank, good luck in the Final....

 

Easy!!! Putting sympathy aside, Gerrard or Alonso were the best players on the park for me. You dont get man of the match for playing because you are grieving, Lampard wasnt even Chelsea`s best player, and he is the penalty taker aswell so he would have taken it either way!

[Boris]

Easy!!! Putting sympathy aside, Gerrard or Alonso were the best players on the park for me. You dont get man of the match for playing because you are grieving, Lampard wasnt even Chelsea`s best player, and he is the penalty taker aswell so he would have taken it either way!

 

So good their team got gubbed.

 

I thought Essien was immense last night.

[Del1812]

I know they certainly have nothing to prove to the likes of me but I for one will struggle to rate Frank Lampard or Steven Gerrard as two of the greatest players of all time.

 

Why? Because I really think for the most part both of them do not perform to their full potential in the majority of the big games they play in. And if they were so good then why have England 'unaderachieved' for their entire playing career. I think they are two players who are suited to the league that they play in and would only truly consider them greats if they proved themselves in another league.

 

Surely no matter what coach you put in, if Ferdinand, Terry, Rooney, Owen, Lampard and Gerrard are as good as they are made out to be then they would never have failed to qualify for the Euros or failed to make it past the quarter final of every tournament they've played in.

 

As for the points about Lampard, he played well and absolutely brilliantly under the circumstances he was facing. If I lost my mum I reckon I'd be walking around in a daze for months and would never be able to focus myself on a massive game of football. However, for the media to big up his game last night as one of the best individual performances of his career (and I only mean the actual performance itself) is very sad and I think there is something not quite right in that.

 

Not a popular opinion I'd assume but there you go.

[Taffin]

Lampard has a great number of assists too, not sure how that compares to Gerrards though.

 

I don't see the fuss about Scholes, rarley scores, and can't tackle very well. Admittedly an excellent passer of the ball, but so to is the likes of Ballack who also contributes goals, but people dont tend to cream over him so much.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Frank Lampard pretty much won Chelsea the League in 2004/5.

 

Liverpool have come nowhere near to winning the League in 18 years. Gerrard or not.

 

But it's fashionable to diss Frank.

 

All aboard the zombie train.

 

Toot toot!

 

Abramovich's money and Jose did.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I wish Scotland could produce a goalscoring midfielder like one of those 3.

 

Here's an idea. Move Clum back to centre mid and hey presto!!!

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Abramovich's money and Jose did.

 

Whatever. Stopped spewing yet?

[Seymour M Hersh]

Whatever. Stopped spewing yet?

 

You lot are even more bitter in victory!! How utterly bizarre! I'm not overly concerned at losing last night. I'd rather lose in the semi to chelski than manure in the final tbh. I have also been fortunate enough to see Liverpool lift the European cup twice (London, Paris) and the Uefa cup twice.

 

Good luck in the final and getting a ticket.

[Buffalo Bill]

Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes ... Beckham.

 

 

All great club players, but somehow the England national team have failed to shine.

 

Scholes just didn't look up for it. Beckham contributed little, Gerrard was hit and miss, and Lampard seemed to peak at Euro 2004.

 

Why?

 

 

Fancied Chelsea to win the CL since early on in the groups. Think they'll pip Man Utd on Moscow.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes ... Beckham.

 

 

All great club players, but somehow the England national team have failed to shine.

 

Scholes just didn't look up for it. Beckham contributed little, Gerrard was hit and miss, and Lampard seemed to peak at Euro 2004.

 

Why?

Possibly shows the importance of having a good manager in leading to success on the pitch?

[Coco]

Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes ... Beckham.

 

 

All great club players, but somehow the England national team have failed to shine.

 

Scholes just didn't look up for it. Beckham contributed little, Gerrard was hit and miss, and Lampard seemed to peak at Euro 2004.

 

Why?

 

 

Fancied Chelsea to win the CL since early on in the groups. Think they'll pip Man Utd on Moscow.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

 

I think that the English managers made the absolutely bizarre decision to build the side around Beckham rather than Scholes. That cost them severely.

[Ryan Gosling]

Lampard has a great number of assists too, not sure how that compares to Gerrards though.

 

I don't see the fuss about Scholes, rarley scores, and can't tackle very well. Admittedly an excellent passer of the ball, but so to is the likes of Ballack who also contributes goals, but people dont tend to cream over him so much.

 

Here speaketh a man who does not understand the game of football, or probably hasn't been watching it very long.

 

139 goals in 567 games for United. Looks like he scores goals to me, just not this season.

 

When a player re-invents himself like Scholes does, and still can't be dropped, then you have to admit therein lies true quality.

[rossi_1983]

I think Lampard is better than Gerrard

 

Gerrard is the better all round midfielder, and is more influential, but Lampard is a much better goal scorer

 

Since they both play as an attacking midfielder just now, I want the one who has more end product, not the one who will go chasing everything on the park.

 

They are both excellent players, but for the position they play, Lampard is slightly better

[cosanostra]

I'd rather have Gerrard, because like you say, he is more of a complete midfielder. He's also a leader on the pitch and is wafully versatile.

 

Lampard is a better finisher though.

[Morgan]

You lot are even more bitter in victory!! How utterly bizarre! I'm not overly concerned at losing last night. I'd rather lose in the semi to chelski than manure in the final tbh. I have also been fortunate enough to see Liverpool lift the European cup twice (London, Paris) and the Uefa cup twice.

 

Good luck in the final and getting a ticket.

 

There's a certain "gooner" on here who's got one.

 

It's "Gold" apparently.

[Say What Again]

My mum was 57 when she died (Pat Lampard was 58). Which is quite young when you come to think of it. Especially now I'm in my mid 40s. I was quite upset when my mum died. For more than a week.

 

What has any of this got to do with what I posted? Absolutely nothing.

 

Where did even slightly suggest Lampard or anyone else wouldn't be upset at losing thier Mum? To post that would have been ridiculous.

 

 

 

I thought Frank did well tonight. Good pass to Kalou for the 1st goal. And kept his cool admirably to strike home a penalty at a crucial time.

 

You say yourself Lampard played 'well'. I posted that he had a decent game and that decent by his standards is pretty good. He's a top player.

 

Your OP said he was 'magnificent'. I disagreed with that.

 

So, still none of your reply to my post makes any point.

 

 

 

I'm so glad your so upset at tonight's result you'd post such tosh. Hurting, eh?

 

Hurting? Not in the slightest. Why would I be? If you're suggesting I'm a Liverpool fan you couldn't be further from the truth. I wanted Chelsea to win last night. I don't have an 'English team' but to keep you happy, I like watching Arsenal play the most though probably like Newcastle to win the most.

 

To sum it up, I think your post has taken the 'tosh' award.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Lampard has a great number of assists too, not sure how that compares to Gerrards though.

 

I don't see the fuss about Scholes, rarley scores, and can't tackle very well. Admittedly an excellent passer of the ball, but so to is the likes of Ballack who also contributes goals, but people dont tend to cream over him so much.

 

Sorry but that is nonsense.

 

Scholes is STILL better than those two and he's nearing the end of his career.

 

Not sure where you get the 'rarely scores' comment from either!

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

Scholes has been there and done it over the last ten years - on his last legs now but in his prime was far better than Gerrard or Lampard.

[cosanostra]

Scholes has been there and done it over the last ten years - on his last legs now but in his prime was far better than Gerrard or Lampard.

 

Never liked Scholes as much after his 2 goals at Hampden.

 

Gutted.

[Coco]

Never liked Scholes as much after his 2 goals at Hampden.

 

Gutted.

 

Only Mickey Cameron has ever been as good at timing his runs into the box ...

[cosanostra]

Only Mickey Cameron has ever been as good at timing his runs into the box ...

 

Hartley was good as well.

 

A 19yr old Vincent Guerin would be welcome right now as well. The guy was class but didn't have the legs any more when he played for us. Would have loved to have seen him play in his prime.

[Coco]

Hartley was good as well.

 

A 19yr old Vincent Guerin would be welcome right now as well. The guy was class but didn't have the legs any more when he played for us. Would have loved to have seen him play in his prime.

 

 

Hartley didn't score the goals from crosses in the way that Cameron or Scholes did. Scholes and Cameron were both brilliant at timing late runs into the box for cut backs. Hartley never had that football intelligence I think, and he scored his goals from charging straight into the box.

 

It is very rare that players have that 'late run' ability. We have nobody at all at the moment who has it.