Hearts needs our supporters more than ever.

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Guys,

 

If there is one thing we can all agree on, is that it's going to be an interesting summer!

 

 

I hope to god we get in a chuffin' manager and settle this club down again. But I really don't know what's going to happen.

 

 

I happen to believe that the next few months ARE the most vital in our history.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

 

 

Yeah, Yeah Yeah, Andrew.

 

But YOU have renewed anyway.

 

Its up to the rest of us steely-eyed individuals to hold our nerve.

 

I won't blink first I can assure you.

[Buffalo Bill]

Yeah, Yeah Yeah, Andrew.

 

But YOU have renewed anyway.

 

Its up to the rest of us steely-eyed individuals to hold our nerve.

 

I won't blink first I can assure you.

 

 

Go with that instinct, my friend.

 

 

...and then reverse it.

 

 

Buffalo Bill (holding his nerve)

 

.

[jambos are go!]

Yeah, Yeah Yeah, Andrew.

 

But YOU have renewed anyway.

 

Its up to the rest of us steely-eyed individuals to hold our nerve.

 

I won't blink first I can assure you.

 

 

I hope so. Straight ahead into the sunset and let the sun rise on Tynecastle and JKB.

[davemclaren]

The ?24 million highlighted was what I'm sure Fraser said and is not rumour or speculation. Somebody else must have heard it.

 

I did hear it but from Roman I thought.

 

Basically our current level of debt less the monies from transfers means we are effectively back to the good place we were under CPR.

 

We'll find out next set of accounts if that holds water at all.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

For those questioning the cash-flow issues, of course there's an issue when the cash coming in covers the club over the non-playing months for the player's wages. No cash = more trips to the bank to pay the wages.

 

So, the marketing people themselves must be panicking because their jobs alone could be on shoogly pegs.

 

What is needed now as the next stage is a petition, signed by current ST holders, to say that they will definitely renew on the appointment of an experienced manager who will be allowed to select their own team week after week. 10,000 signatures, say, on that would send out a very powerful message.

[Imeantasong]

I did hear it but from Roman I thought.

 

Basically our current level of debt less the monies from transfers means we are effectively back to the good place we were under CPR.

 

We'll find out next set of accounts if that holds water at all.

It did come from Fraser at the AGM. It was the ?36M minus the Gordon and Bednar transfers (although Bednar's money won't be in as yet). Gordon's will be ?8M now due to the extra ?1M from appearances (and more again as Sunderland stayed up?)..

 

We were told the current level was just above the amount at takeover.

 

Considering Gordon's wages, and some of Pressley's / Hartley's would have been included in the latest results, the overall wage bill should show a substantial reduction for the current financial year, so they won't be ?12M+.

 

However, these were meant to be current figures as to debt levels, not a projection for the financial year end in July. We haven't got a clue there.

 

For the record, I'm holding off until later to decide on my ST. Can't really afford the higher price, and my seat is already jumping ?85 (unless I relocate to the old stand), but I feel I've been conned too often to buy just now.

 

I always managed to buy even when skint anyway, so next season won't be unique from that point of view.

[Charlie-Brown]

For those questioning the cash-flow issues, of course there's an issue when the cash coming in covers the club over the non-playing months for the player's wages. No cash = more trips to the bank to pay the wages.

 

So, the marketing people themselves must be panicking because their jobs alone could be on shoogly pegs.

 

What is needed now as the next stage is a petition, signed by current ST holders, to say that they will definitely renew on the appointment of an experienced manager who will be allowed to select their own team week after week. 10,000 signatures, say, on that would send out a very powerful message.

 

I suspect the bank intend to be less generous in meeting operating costs and will expect the football club to pay it's own way & generate it's own money (as much as possible)....

[Coco]

Jammy_T I have typed out quite a lot of anger / abuse at certain posters who have either abused me or tried to insinuate that I am somehow paid by Hearts or a PR company or other such nonsense - I am a Hearts FAN & nothing more - I sit in section S and pay my ST money the same as everyone else - anyway I've never posted these posts because I wouldn't demean myself in that way and also I believe you must always control your emotions or else they will control you.....however I do find typing out my anger / frustration to be therapeutic but I just don't post it.

 

Anyway - regards this thread: I don't find todays Message on the website surprising at all - Drylaw Hearts posted earlier it seems like a 'panic' move and if ST sales are really as low as people are speculating then I am not surprised as the club could well be several thousand ST's down on like for like sales compared to last year & the year before.

 

If true then this will obviously have a very negative effect on current cashflow - ST sales obviously provide a large chunk of Hearts revenue and most of this will be received between April-July. This is what allows the club to budget for the forthcoming season.

 

You made an error in one of your earlier posts when you said Hearts overdraft limit is ?40M - that is incorrect - that is the borrowing limit Hearts shareholders have placed on the company (unless this was increased at the AGM?) however that might be far higher than UKIO / UBIG or any other credior are currently prepared to lend Hearts, given Hearts lost ?5.2M & ?12.2M in 2 years which saw a massive rise in debt and I am uncertain as yet as to how much losses have been constrained in this current season 2007-08 then it is almost certain that the Craig Gordon money has been used to reduce the overdraft / debt total.

 

What we don't know is what upper limit Ugianskas the chief executive of UKIO Bankas has set for Hearts borrowing limit - we could be over that ceiling or approaching it - and UKIO may be looking to make reductions in their exposure to Hearts in terms of what they are prepared to loan Hearts to cover 'operating' costs.

 

The loan for stadium reconstruction might be a slightly different issue because that is 'capital spending' and should be asset backed however this needs to be explained in much more detail however just becuase there might be money available for the stadium work does not mean that UKIO are prepared to continue subsidising Hearts loss making and indeed I would be very surprised if they weren't insisting on stringent cuts and financial controls to bring Hearts closer to 'break even' and reduce Hearts overall indebtedness and thus the Banks current exposure to Hearts debt.

 

What I also know from my wife who works in the law is that the creditors who provide Hearts with goods & services on an ongoing weekly & monthly basis have been a LOT more aggressive in pursuit of due payments since the most recent accounts were published......that is why I think Hearst face a cash flow squeeze in the coming weeks & months and obviously the club would need as much ST money as they can generate at this time.

 

There may or may not be a simple solution to the 'manager' issue that remains to be seen - what I do know and should be obvious to anyone is that whilst with-holding ST money can be an effective 'weapon' in attempting to speed up a change of policy from Hearts with regards to football operations it has has negative consequences for the clubs financial position - indeed it *might* significantly worsen it. That is all.

 

I think that you are right.

 

There are many signs of cash flow problems. And they have been obvious for more than a year. I posted last year that the early renewal time for season ticket sales (which was moved forward last year) could be a sign that the business was in need of cash. As was advertising the players for sale on the website, paying suppliers in hospitality, holding back cash from Dunfermline, paying suppliers late, stories of young players not being paid on time, not playing players with expensive appearance/goal money contracts, emptying most of the high earners, operating without a manager, bringing in damaged goods signings and players from Kaunas - and of course the absolutely abysmal financial statements.

 

The one thing which does not fit is the refusal to sell Tall and Goncalves when there were reported offers. So that confuses me slightly.

 

But in general the situation is clear. Fans' refusal to buy season tickets will put a squeeze on the cash flow situation. How VR will react to that is beyond guesswork however.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I suspect the bank intend to be less generous in meeting operating costs and will expect the football club to pay it's own way & generate it's own money (as much as possible)....

 

Well they better get thinking about appointing that manager then.

[cylawny]

Expenditure coming down and down ( salaries)

 

 

 

sgd, Micawber, esq.

 

Wishful thinking.

 

Am I the only one who noticed the massive headcount rise ? Player and non player alike.

 

Wages of ?12.5 Million , unexplained vanishing money to the tune of about ?5 Million for player registration.

 

Have seen no evidence of the headcount dropping.

 

Ukio/Ubig to get there slice of interest say ? 2 Million.

 

Despite the Gordon money etc we will make a further loss.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Wishful thinking.

 

Am I the only one who noticed the massive headcount rise ? Player and non player alike.

 

Wages of ?12.5 Million , unexplained vanishing money to the tune of about ?5 Million for player registration.

 

Have seen no evidence of the headcount dropping.

 

Ukio/Ubig to get there slice of interest say ? 2 Million.

 

Despite the Gordon money etc we will make a further loss.

 

I don't think we'll be making a loss this year.

 

Their will be in excess of ?10million in transfer fee's in the 'In' column with very little in the 'Out' column plus our wage bill will have reduced this financial year.

[JamboAl]

http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HeartsNewsDetail/0,,10289~1299929,00.html

 

 

 

If HMFC want to encourage people to buy or renew STs, all they need to do is the one simple thing which they promised to do on Jan 1st.

 

Give us something to believe in then. Give us an experienced manager and allow him to manage.

 

Leave the marketing bull**** for those who lack the intelligence to see through it (i.e. rangers, celtic and hibs fans).

 

I renewed my ST 2 weeks ago today, just before midday and there were half a dozen people in front of me doing the same (and buying more than 1). When I left there were 3 behind me. That was a quiet Tuesday morning with nothing to suggest it might have been exceptional. I renewed because I support HMFC, not Romanov, not a particular player, not because of a manager, not religiously or otherwise influenced, but because I support HMFC. I consider myself to be intelligent, CAN SEE THROUGH MARKETING BULL**** and definitely don't need your guidance or help: in fact it might be the last thing I'd be inclined to take as I feel I too would be starting to become insecure. I have gone to Tynecastle as a boy, youth and man and seen many bad times and listened to many fans' moans but I would never be swayed by anyone exhorting me, albeit indirectly, not to renew. If you don't want to renew don't bloody renew and please don't promote yourself as being more intelligent than people who do renew inferring that they fall for marketing ploys but you are so clever you don't.

[Cliffundo]

I renewed my ST 2 weeks ago today, just before midday and there were half a dozen people in front of me doing the same (and buying more than 1). When I left there were 3 behind me. That was a quiet Tuesday morning with nothing to suggest it might have been exceptional. I renewed because I support HMFC, not Romanov, not a particular player, not because of a manager, not religiously or otherwise influenced, but because I support HMFC. I consider myself to be intelligent, CAN SEE THROUGH MARKETING BULL**** and definitely don't need your guidance or help: in fact it might be the last thing I'd be inclined to take as I feel I too would be starting to become insecure. I have gone to Tynecastle as a boy, youth and man and seen many bad times and listened to many fans' moans but I would never be swayed by anyone exhorting me, albeit indirectly, not to renew. If you don't want to renew don't bloody renew and please don't promote yourself as being more intelligent than people who do renew inferring that they fall for marketing ploys but you are so clever you don't.

 

 

so you are happy to see the club run the way it is. you are happy we have not had a proper manager for years? the only tool the fans have is the season ticket renewal stance and hopefully there are enough of us to make that stance work in our favour. All we ask for is a proper manager!

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I renewed my ST 2 weeks ago today, just before midday and there were half a dozen people in front of me doing the same (and buying more than 1). When I left there were 3 behind me. That was a quiet Tuesday morning with nothing to suggest it might have been exceptional. I renewed because I support HMFC, not Romanov, not a particular player, not because of a manager, not religiously or otherwise influenced, but because I support HMFC. I consider myself to be intelligent, CAN SEE THROUGH MARKETING BULL**** and definitely don't need your guidance or help: in fact it might be the last thing I'd be inclined to take as I feel I too would be starting to become insecure. I have gone to Tynecastle as a boy, youth and man and seen many bad times and listened to many fans' moans but I would never be swayed by anyone exhorting me, albeit indirectly, not to renew.

 

touch a wee nerve there by any chance?

 

If you don't want to renew don't bloody renew and please don't promote yourself as being more intelligent than people who do renew inferring that they fall for marketing ploys but you are so clever you don't.

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=13020#post232494

 

And if you wan't to renew, renew, and don't promote yourself as being better hearts fans than people who don't renew yet by calling them glory hunters....

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I'm guessing NMH has concluded that the 1st Jan statement is dead as well because he says that ST income will be down. An appointment of a manager would stop that (or at the very worst, mitigate it). So there will be no manager appointed by that logic.

[Cliffundo]

touch a wee nerve there by any chance?

 

 

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=13020#post232494

 

And if you wan't to renew, renew, and don't promote yourself as being better hearts fans than people who don't renew yet by calling them glory hunters....

 

post #20 on that link was a cracker

[JamboAl]

touch a wee nerve there by any chance?

 

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=13020#post232494

 

And if you wan't to renew, renew, and don't promote yourself as being better hearts fans than people who don't renew yet by calling them glory hunters....

 

I think I know whose nerve was touched. No comment on the substance, merely decrying the poster which is what you often berate. People, glass and houses.

I apologise to those fans who for genuine reasons have not renewed. I don't apologise to those who have proferred lame excuses for not renewing. I have promoted myself as one who has renewed despite all our difficulties. Such loyalty to HMFC (NOT ROMANOV) sits uneasily with some but c'est la vie.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

No comment on the substance

 

difficult to do when there is no substance on which to comment.

[Sherlock]

I think I know whose nerve was touched. No comment on the substance, merely decrying the poster which is what you often berate. People, glass and houses.

I apologise to those fans who for genuine reasons have not renewed. I don't apologise to those who have proferred lame excuses for not renewing. I have promoted myself as one who has renewed despite all our difficulties. Such loyalty to HMFC (NOT ROMANOV) sits uneasily with some but c'est la vie.

 

What do you consider to be a "lame excuse"?

[JamboAl]

What do you consider to be a "lame excuse"?

 

You'll recognise one when you hear it.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

You'll recognise one when you hear it.

 

Nice avoiding the question.

[Jambotommy]

I wouldn't even trust a management announcement with this regime.

 

"Here is Blah blah,our world class new manager with sole responsibility".

 

It would just be more keech to sell tickets, then after the first game of the season,

a ten nil humping of the hobos, he is sacked for "killing" the club.

[rudi]

I think I know whose nerve was touched. No comment on the substance, merely decrying the poster which is what you often berate. People, glass and houses.

I apologise to those fans who for genuine reasons have not renewed. I don't apologise to those who have proferred lame excuses for not renewing. I have promoted myself as one who has renewed despite all our difficulties. Such loyalty to HMFC (NOT ROMANOV) sits uneasily with some but c'est la vie.

 

I am 'genuinly' peshed off,so apology accepted.

[Charlie-Brown]

I'm guessing NMH has concluded that the 1st Jan statement is dead as well because he says that ST income will be down. An appointment of a manager would stop that (or at the very worst, mitigate it). So there will be no manager appointed by that logic.

 

No - I just suspect that at very best we will match last seasons ST sales which means revenue wise we are standing still (albeit there is some price increases) however I think realistically there will be people who will not renew even if McGhee or Levein or whoever is appointed so there will be some shortfall but my main concern is that in the previous 2 seasons the current number of ST's would have been well higher than they currently are - that is why there are emails & phone calls etc. cash flow must be hurting.

[Sherlock]

You'll recognise one when you hear it.

 

The question wasn't what i consider to be a lame excuse, so me hearing and recognising one is neither here or there.

 

What do YOU consider to be a "lame excuse"?

 

You're quite opinionated when discussing issue's such as this, so why are you unwilling or unable to answer this simple question?

[JamboAl]

The question wasn't what i consider to be a lame excuse, so me hearing and recognising one is neither here or there.

 

What do YOU consider to be a "lame excuse"?

 

You're quite opinionated when discussing issue's such as this, so why are you unwilling or unable to answer this simple question?

 

I have stated my opinion and if you cannot renew for what in your mind is a reason, then don't renew. If you are not renewing simply because we don't appear to have a winning formula and put forward a supposed reason as attempted justification, I consider that to be a lame excuse.

[Sherlock]

I have stated my opinion and if you cannot renew for what in your mind is a reason, then don't renew. If you are not renewing simply because we don't appear to have a winning formula and put forward a supposed reason as attempted justification, I consider that to be a lame excuse.

 

Again you've avoided the question.

 

What would the "supposed reason as attempted justification" be for you to view it as a "lame excuse"?

 

Say, for example, someone stated that they weren't going to renew until the Januray 1st statement was enacted, would you consider that simply a supposed reason and attempted justification and, as such, consider it a lame excuse?

[JamboAl]

Again you've avoided the question.

 

What would the "supposed reason as attempted justification" be for you to view it as a "lame excuse"?

 

Say, for example, someone stated that they weren't going to renew until the Januray 1st statement was enacted, would you consider that simply a supposed reason and attempted justification and, as such, consider it a lame excuse?

 

The Jan 1st statement would be enacted if we appointed Frail as Manager (instead of caretaker) but I doubt if that would change the perceptions of some.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

The Jan 1st statement would be enacted if we appointed Frail as Manager (instead of caretaker) but I doubt if that would change the perceptions of some.

 

Of course it would.

 

The manager' date=' who will have full responsibility for team selection, will be an experienced football manager and will preferably have experience of management in British football.

 

 

The new manager will work with sport director Anatoly Korobochka and assistant head coach Stephen Frail.

[/quote']

 

 

 

So you reckon , Frail is now an experience football manager, and has experience of management in British football?

 

And you reckon it is possible for our new manager Stephen Frail to work with sport director Anatoly Korobochka and assistant head coach Stephen Frail.

 

Are we gonna clone him?

[Sherlock]

The Jan 1st statement would be enacted if we appointed Frail as Manager (instead of caretaker) but I doubt if that would change the perceptions of some.

 

Again, your avoiding the question, it seems that for all your opinions, you are unable or unwilling to answer a simple question.

 

But as it happens, you are wrong anyway.

 

Frail's appointment would not enact the January 1st statement.

 

The January 1st statement included...... "The manager, who will have full responsibility for team selection, will be an experienced football manager....".

 

Frail is not an experienced football manager and neither does he have full responsibilty for team selection.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Again, your avoiding the question, it seems that for all your opinions, you are unable or unwilling to answer a simple question.

 

But as it happens, you are wrong anyway.

 

Frail's appointment would not enact the January 1st statement.

 

The January 1st statement included...... "The manager, who will have full responsibility for team selection, will be an experienced football manager....".

 

Frail is not an experienced football manager and neither does he have full responsibilty for team selection.

 

He will be by the time we appoint a manager

 

SHAMBLES:evilno:

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Well they better get thinking about appointing that manager then.

 

This deserves to be bumped. I can't help noticing it's getting the old tumbleweed treatment.

 

Surely the best way to manage costs is for an experienced manager with knowledge of the British game and its players to be appointed. They could achieve that more successfully than Vlad and Pedro scouting.

 

He isn't attempting to argue the case for Vlad scouting players, is he?

[Guest casper]

This deserves to be bumped. I can't help noticing it's getting the old tumbleweed treatment.

 

Surely the best way to manage costs is for an experienced manager with knowledge of the British game and its players to be appointed. They could achieve that more successfully than Vlad and Pedro scouting.

 

He isn't attempting to argue the case for Vlad scouting players, is he?

 

Why bother wasting money on scouts when there is a ready stream of quality player coming for Kaunas?

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Surely the best way to manage costs is for an experienced manager with knowledge of the British game and its players to be appointed. They could achieve that more successfully than Vlad and Pedro scouting.

Well said that man.

[JamboAl]

Again, your avoiding the question, it seems that for all your opinions, you are unable or unwilling to answer a simple question.

 

But as it happens, you are wrong anyway.

 

Frail's appointment would not enact the January 1st statement.

 

The January 1st statement included...... "The manager, who will have full responsibility for team selection, will be an experienced football manager....".

 

Frail is not an experienced football manager and neither does he have full responsibilty for team selection.

 

If I wish to be pedantic I could say Frail will have had 6 months experience of British football at the start of the season so it is a question of degree.

We have had several managers before, at least one of whom (Rix) had much greater experience of British football. Is that what you want?

I'm not saying SF is the answer to our problems but 2 defeats out of 15 is the best record outside of the OF. If we ditched him and he went to (say) the Sheep and swept to the top of the table, many people would be on here saying VR was wrong to get rid of him. Beware of what you wish for.

[Hereward]

If I wish to be pedantic I could say Frail will have had 6 months experience of British football at the start of the season so it is a question of degree.

We have had several managers before, at least one of whom (Rix) had much greater experience of British football. Is that what you want?

I'm not saying SF is the answer to our problems but 2 defeats out of 15 is the best record outside of the OF. If we ditched him and he went to (say) the Sheep and swept to the top of the table, many people would be on here saying VR was wrong to get rid of him. Beware of what you wish for.

 

Hilarious. And sad, of course, that people will stoop to this kind of nonsense.

 

Frail is not an experienced manager. Badges or no, he's a coach who's been forced into a role because of the failure of Vlad's other puppets.

 

What if Frail went to Aberdeen? You really typed this? What if he grew breasts? Would he make a good nursemaid then? Without the mad one standing in his plate, he might get his dinner eaten too.

 

If the purpose of appointing an experienced manager is to run the club properly, as was indicated in the January 1 statement, that manager cannot be Frail because he has already performed as a puppet for the regime. If people are happy with that, fill yer boots then. Enjoy the new standard of scrambling to maybe sneak into the top six. When did that become acceptable? This is a club that should be fighting for a European place year-in, year-out. Banging about the bottom of the table is a disgrace.

[leginten]

The Jan 1st statement would be enacted if we appointed Frail as Manager (instead of caretaker) but I doubt if that would change the perceptions of some.

 

It is a sad sign of the state of some Hearts supporters that this kind of rubbish can be posted - unless, of course, it's part of an elaborate wind-up.

 

Despite the best propaganda attempts of some posters to prepare the way for the seamless transition from Stevie Frail to...Stevie Frail, and despite the fact that it is plain to see that it's actually going to happen, it will still never be acceptable. And it will categorically not be an enactment of the January 1st statement.

[Sherlock]

If I wish to be pedantic I could say Frail will have had 6 months experience of British football at the start of the season so it is a question of degree.

We have had several managers before, at least one of whom (Rix) had much greater experience of British football. Is that what you want?

I'm not saying SF is the answer to our problems but 2 defeats out of 15 is the best record outside of the OF. If we ditched him and he went to (say) the Sheep and swept to the top of the table, many people would be on here saying VR was wrong to get rid of him. Beware of what you wish for.

 

Rix only had 20 months experience as a manager in his own right before coming to Hearts. I'm expecting our experienced manager to have a wee bit more than that.

 

Any chance of an answer to the 'lame excuse' question?

[JamboAl]

Rix only had 20 months experience as a manager in his own right before coming to Hearts. I'm expecting our experienced manager to have a wee bit more than that.

 

Any chance of an answer to the 'lame excuse' question?

 

Refer to post 176.

You may be expecting more than 20 months but did VR say that?

[Sherlock]

Refer to post 176.

You may be expecting more than 20 months but did VR say that?

 

You've wore me down.

 

I give up.

[Domokun]

I started reading this thread a handsome young chap of 24 years.

 

I'm now seventy six.