Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

What did he get up to that's so bad, jamesey?

He was in the govt of Sturgeon abc Humza so that’s bad enough for me 

[il Duce McTarkin]

25 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

He was in the govt of Sturgeon abc Humza so that’s bad enough for me 

 

Solid logic there, jamesey. Like it. 👍

[Korky]

2 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

If Swinney gets stuff done as FM, it will be the first time he'll have been a success at any government role. As for safe and competent, these are two words that he will be unused to seeing next to his name.

Swinney is a Sturgeon man, brought in to ensure no investigation into Sturgeon and Murrell's mishandling of power and to hold the rug while the dirty stuff is swept away.

Even Surgeon baulked at giving him a serious role. Thats why a job was invented for him - Covid Recovery Minister!

  
 

[i wish jj was my dad]

6 hours ago, FWJ said:

I know someone that owns a business in Edinburgh and someone that works in finance and they are both telling me that the high/very high earners are starting to drift away.  I don’t know if that’s true or not but they’ve no reason to make stuff up.

I think if Swinney & co can concentrate on growing the economy and demonstrating competence in governing and Government support for independence will grow.

Growing the economy is important and draws a distinction between SNP and the Greens but growth has to be for the benefit of the wider population. Not just to pay for Michelle and Doug's new yacht. A tall order when the the winkers with the real power have cut us off from our European partners and are hell bent on removing any regulations and protections we had from the EU. Quite a challenge and quite frankly I doubt he, Starmer or any politician or party are up to it.

But little of that gets through to the average Joe who are bombarded with culture wars, small boats,  benefit scroungers, innuendo about Sadiq Khan and Humza Yousaf and anyone else perceived as 'different'. 

Swinney has no chance. Neither has Starmer FWW, while the country allows Harmsworth, Murdoch and their bots to pollute the agenda. And that's before we even get into what could happen over the pond if that absolute monster gets in again. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

cut us off from our European partners

Wasn’t Brexit decided by a democratic vote ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Oh dear well that didn’t last long 

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Oh dear well that didn’t last long 

 

 

?

[i wish jj was my dad]

10 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

?

I think that the point is that Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU. Others have pointed out that 'No' were very clear that our only hope of remaining in the EU was to vote 'No' 

If i was to vote on independence in a straight yes or no vote tomorrow my gut would be no but when reminded by an interesting constitutional question. 'Was Brexit determined by a democratic vote' ? , I'd swing back to my decision in 2014. We voted on a false premise and what we have today is a lie. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

20 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I think that the point is that Scotland voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU. Others have pointed out that 'No' were very clear that our only hope of remaining in the EU was to vote 'No' 

If i was to vote on independence in a straight yes or no vote tomorrow my gut would be no but when reminded by an interesting constitutional question. 'Was Brexit determined by a democratic vote' ? , I'd swing back to my decision in 2014. We voted on a false premise and what we have today is a lie. 

Scotland didn’t vote to stay in the EU as Scotland was never in the EU . The UK was in the EU . Please get your facts right  dear . Brexit was decided by a majority democratic vote . It was agreed that 50% was the majority vote . It’s not rocket science . 

[AyrJambo]

23 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Scotland didn’t vote to stay in the EU as Scotland was never in the EU . The UK was in the EU . Please get your facts right  dear . Brexit was decided by a majority democratic vote . It was agreed that 50% was the majority vote . It’s not rocket science . 

 

As the Brexit vote was tallied by local authority region it was possible to determine voting patterns not just for those regions but for Scotland as a whole (and similarly for England, Wales and NI as wholes) which is why people argue correctly that Scotland, as a whole, did not vote in favour of Brexit

 

More importantly, you say above that the Brexit referendum was democratic and that 50% + 1 was a valid majority for Brexit to go ahead

Yet you have earlier stated that any referendum on Scottish independence should require a much higher majority than just 50% + 1 (I think you mentioned 60% or 70%)

Why is a simple majority OK for the UK to leave the EU but not for Scotland to leave the UK?

Edited May 11 by AyrJambo

[i wish jj was my dad]

Shite to think that Scotland's vote doesn't matter which entirely validates the 'material change of circumstance' that the SNP were up front about before the referendum. 

Fortunately, cooler heads are prevailing and there are moderate people in charge now that won't be dragged into the fights extremist pricks and tufton Street need to provoke

[i wish jj was my dad]

I just checked BBC for brexit vote.  62% in  Scotland voted remain. I'm sure there is a big debate on this thread about 60%  being decisive.  Tufton Street control might need to review their lines again though. 

[The Mighty Thor]

6 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

?

I think the screechbot cannot understand that unless and until Scotland controls all the economic and fiscal levers then Scotland's economy will forever be at the mercy of decisions taken in Westminster.

 

its really not that difficult to understand. Unless.......... 

[manaliveits105]

7 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Oh dear well that didn’t last long 

 

 

Like their thick supporters they never learn - "selfless and humble" John won't last long 

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Shite to think that Scotland's vote doesn't matter which entirely validates the 'material change of circumstance' that the SNP were up front about before the referendum. 

Fortunately, cooler heads are prevailing and there are moderate people in charge now that won't be dragged into the fights extremist pricks and tufton Street need to provoke

Bingo  tufton street! And please moderate your language . Calling people extremist

” pricks “ is rather abusive . I Always feel someone is losing an argument when they lose potty language 

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I just checked BBC for brexit vote.  62% in  Scotland voted remain. I'm sure there is a big debate on this thread about 60%  being decisive.  Tufton Street control might need to review their lines again though. 

I knew 62% of those who chose to vote voted to remain . I was one of them . But we went into EU as the Uk dear . Not as Scotland . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

20 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Like their thick supporters they never learn - "selfless and humble" John won't last long 

I know trying to paint him as a moderate ! He was in the thick of the rapists charter and the hate bill . Sooner KF replaces him the better . 👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I think the screechbot cannot understand that unless and until Scotland controls all the economic and fiscal levers then Scotland's economy will forever be at the mercy of decisions taken in Westminster.

 

its really not that difficult to understand. Unless.......... 

awe another one resorting to insults . 😂 it’s water of a ducks arse to me “ mate” 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Please remember rule number one :

 

“ always treat fellow members with respect and courtesy. Abuse is not permitted “ 

 

have a good Saturday and god bless 😇

[JudyJudyJudy]

Indeed

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11 by JudyJudyJudy

[JudyJudyJudy]

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

It's ok to be in a union but not ok to leave a union?

Would it not be better to be in both unions or not in either?

Edited May 11 by Howdy Doody Jambo

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Like their thick supporters they never learn - "selfless and humble" John won't last long 

Can you explain what we've to "learn" apart from Westminster controlling, misusing and doing their utmost with profligacy regarding the economy?

[pablo]

8 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I just checked BBC for brexit vote.  62% in  Scotland voted remain. I'm sure there is a big debate on this thread about 60%  being decisive.  Tufton Street control might need to review their lines again though. 

 

About as relevant as Edinburgh returning the same vote for No in the 2014 referendum.

[hughesie27]

On 14/03/2024 at 21:05, JudyJudyJudy said:

Absolutley pitiful and disgusting behaviour to actually rake up old postings  from nearly 4 years ago.

 

Pathetic 

 

Says more about you than me. 

 

C****

 

 

 

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Bingo  tufton street! And please moderate your language . Calling people extremist

” pricks “ is rather abusive . I Always feel someone is losing an argument when they lose potty language 

 

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Please remember rule number one :

 

“ always treat fellow members with respect and courtesy. Abuse is not permitted “ 

 

have a good Saturday and god bless 😇

🙃

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

About as relevant as Edinburgh returning the same vote for No in the 2014 referendum.

Yep 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Hughsie  I have you on ignore now mate so your wasting your energy every day trying to get my attention . Probably best trying to troll someone else .. 

 

 

Oh “ trolling “ ? What rule number is that again. ? 

[i wish jj was my dad]

10 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

About as relevant as Edinburgh returning the same vote for No in the 2014 referendum.

I've no issue with the result of the independence referendum and think that we should get on with trying to make devolution work. I do however acknowledge that being taken out of the EU against the will of the Scottish electorate was the material change of circumstance that would justify another referendum if there was sufficient support. The most recent votes suggest there was but the ground may have shifted since then. 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Please remember rule number one :

 

“ always treat fellow members with respect and courtesy. Abuse is not permitted “ 

 

have a good Saturday and god bless 😇

Last night I made steak baguettes for me and Mrs Roxy, washed down with a Gordon Ramsay red and a few beers Triple J. 

 

Thought I'd give a wee update on the eating front as this thread is boring as f...😅

[Generic Username]

Don't worry Hughsie, the "I have you on ignore" schtick isn't worth much

[BlueRiver]

2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Last night I made steak baguettes for me and Mrs Roxy, washed down with a Gordon Ramsay red and a few beers Triple J. 

 

Thought I'd give a wee update on the eating front as this thread is boring as f...😅

 

Beer of choice? I was only into some Peroni last night and a couple of cans of a weak Brothers cider.  Was braw though just sitting in the sun. Then shuffled out the house to be a northern lights . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Last night I made steak baguettes for me and Mrs Roxy, washed down with a Gordon Ramsay red and a few beers Triple J. 

 

Thought I'd give a wee update on the eating front as this thread is boring as f...😅

Oh that sound wonderful Roxy . I had a couple of gin and tonics at Ryries in the late afternoon and went for a meal at local pub . Meal wasn’t much cop . Then home . 

[pablo]

2 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I've no issue with the result of the independence referendum and think that we should get on with trying to make devolution work. I do however acknowledge that being taken out of the EU against the will of the Scottish electorate was the material change of circumstance that would justify another referendum if there was sufficient support. The most recent votes suggest there was but the ground may have shifted since then. 

 

I was and still am a hard Remain in the EU vote. That said I cast my vote through a UK lense. I genuinely don't know if I'd have been the same if considering it from the perspective of an independent Scotland.

 

I take the point, but have never been convinced it's as clear cut as what some Nationalists claim.

[hughesie27]

9 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Hughsie  I have you on ignore now mate so your wasting your energy every day trying to get my attention . Probably best trying to troll someone else .. 

 

 

Oh “ trolling “ ? What rule number is that again. ? 

Engaging you in debate is trolling? 

I've never had anyone on ignore before, I assume it must still show you I've replied given you have just addressed it? Bit pointless. Unless I'm not on ignore obv.

 

Curious as to what broke the camels back, was it my constant pressing ro find out what you meant by the SNP being finished and your inability to answer it? 

We've never really had a quibble on here compared to to many other posters you clash with. 

 

It's a sad day.

I'll continue to quote and challenge your multiple hypocritical points and lack of substance if its all the same to you. I'm on ignore after all, no issue.

[Roxy Hearts]

2 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Beer of choice? I was only into some Peroni last night and a couple of cans of a weak Brothers cider.  Was braw though just sitting in the sun. Then shuffled out the house to be a northern lights . 

Moretti and Menabrea BR. Got some Peroni Red stashed though. Saw pictures of the Northern Lights and looked fantastic!

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

I was and still am a hard Remain in the EU vote. That said I cast my vote through a UK lense. I genuinely don't know if I'd have been the same if considering it from the perspective of an independent Scotland.

 

I take the point, but have never been convinced it's as clear cut as what some Nationalists claim.

Similar to me . I voted remain and guess why ? I didn’t believe all the “ right wing” nonsense about what would happen if we left the EU . I knew that when we left we were out of the EU completely . Zilch . See that’s what boils my piss when people comment stating that some people are influenced by the “ right wing” etc and can’t make up their own mind about stuff without it being fed to them . I’m perfectly able to make decisions by weighing up all sides of the arguments . Hence it was a yes in Indy and no for Brexit , 

[Roxy Hearts]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Oh that sound wonderful Roxy . I had a couple of gin and tonics at Ryries in the late afternoon and went for a meal at local pub . Meal wasn’t much cop . Then home . 

👍. A G&T in the sun is most agreeable. All the restaurants and pubs serving good food in Edinburgh and you pick a crap one! 😅

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Moretti and Menabrea BR. Got some Peroni Red stashed though. Saw pictures of the Northern Lights and looked fantastic!

I’ve stopped drinking lager now  for health reasons . Too much sugar in it . Had a few red wines lately but do love my gin and tonics . Had about 10 on Tuesday night ,’! 😎

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

👍. A G&T in the sun is most agreeable. All the restaurants and pubs serving good food in Edinburgh and you pick a crap one! 😅

I  know . It was outside so was quite nice 

[Roxy Hearts]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

I  know . It was outside so was quite nice 

Cutting the grass today and Mrs Roxy is oot so more beers!

[JudyJudyJudy]

 

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Cutting the grass today and Mrs Roxy is oot so more beers!

Sounds good I’ll be at the match later then decided against any common sense to meet my mate later at his pub to watch Euro !!! 😂😂 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Sounds good I’ll be at the match later then decided against any common sense to meet my mate later at his pub to watch Euro !!! 😂😂 

I used to watch the Euro as a bairn but haven't watched it in years. Looks to have become overly camp and too fabulous! 🤣

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I used to watch the Euro as a bairn but haven't watched it in years. Looks to have become overly camp and too fabulous! 🤣

 

lol it’s never not been camp !!! Ah I never really watch but tonight there might be fireworks due to Israel  participation so popcorn at the ready . I do love drama 😮

[i wish jj was my dad]

3 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

I was and still am a hard Remain in the EU vote. That said I cast my vote through a UK lense. I genuinely don't know if I'd have been the same if considering it from the perspective of an independent Scotland.

 

I take the point, but have never been convinced it's as clear cut as what some Nationalists claim.

I don't think it is clear cut. I'd much rather the powers that be on both sides of the border focused on cleaning up the mess created by the financial crash, austerity, brexit, energy insecurity, pissing public money up a wall on dodgy contracts and the cost of living crisis. But we can't ignore that polls indicate 45% -50% want another referendum and that has to be addressed somehow.

My preference is that both sides try to prove why their way is the answer by doing their job properly. 

Instead there are elements on both sides who are happy to agitate and actively encourage the division we are seeing today. Populism isn't healthy.  It thrives on division and demonising parts of society rather than tackling the real issues which is why the card gets played so often. 

It is beneath contempt. 

[Roxy Hearts]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

lol it’s never not been camp !!! Ah I never really watch but tonight there might be fireworks due to Israel  participation so popcorn at the ready . I do love drama 😮

"Drama", never! 😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

their job properly. 

Instead there are elements on both sides who are happy to agitate and actively encourage the division we are seeing today

That’s the SNP and greens your on about . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

But we can't ignore that polls indicate 45% -50% want another

Bring it on 

[BlueRiver]

34 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Moretti and Menabrea BR. Got some Peroni Red stashed though. Saw pictures of the Northern Lights and looked fantastic!

 

I like a bottle of Menabrea. I've went off Moretti a bit lately and not sure why. Although if the local shop sticks it on offer I'm sure I'll be happy to get a few bottles of it again. 

 

Aye I was sceptical about going back out at first and over the back field but was very glad I did. Got some cracking photos. 👌 

 

 

[manaliveits105]

2 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Can you explain what we've to "learn" apart from Westminster controlling, misusing and doing their utmost with profligacy regarding the economy?

The SG needs to learn to get on with the day job and make devolution work to convince people we can go it alone and give up harping on about independence and blaming Westminster for everything - Swinney hinted that was what he would be doing but in the last two days he has spouted Indy within 5 years and everything's Westminsters fault 

same old same old essenpee 

they need emptied .