Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[BlueRiver]

We're also now into the realms of somehow trying to insinuate that the rUK wouldn't have continuator state status and we'd somehow try to block them from doing so in negotiations. 

 

What a wonderful way to kick off our bold new future. 

[AyrJambo]

6 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

We're also now into the realms of somehow trying to insinuate that the rUK wouldn't have continuator state status and we'd somehow try to block them from doing so in negotiations. 

 

What a wonderful way to kick off our bold new future. 

 

You are missing the point

If Scotland rescinds the treaty that brought the UK in to being why is it assumed that the UK continues?

[manaliveits105]

Separatist desperation spot the difference competition 

[BlueRiver]

Just now, AyrJambo said:

 

You are missing the point

If Scotland rescinds the treaty that brought the UK in to being why is it assumed that the UK continues?

 

I am not missing any point. It's fairly clear in the eyes of the world that the remainder of the UK would continue to be recognised as a continuator state and legal opinion has been fairly consistent with this. 

 

The idea that we'd leave and blow up the entirety of the rest of the UK's international memberships and treaties is utter fantasy. 

[AyrJambo]

47 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

and today's caption competition..

 

 

(BBC Website 07.05.2024)

 

Anyone seen Peter?

[jambomjm74]

8 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Again that assumes that rUK continues to exist

The UK of GB (leave Ireland/NI out for the moment) exists because the Kingdoms of Scotland and England signed a bilateral treaty

If one of those signatories dissolves the union by rescinding the treaty where does that leave UK of GB?

Scotland wouldn't be "leaving" the UK in the way that the UK left the EU

The very existence of the UK would be in question

 

No doubt England will want to continue as rUK but that is something to be negotiated perhaps for a more favourable distribution of UK assets and liabilities

 

 

Any suggestion of using Sterling that I have heard has been a temporary arrangement until a Scottish currency is launched

Plaid Cymru have 20% of the vote.. so the complete break up of the U.K. isn’t likely. Also, the Welsh whilst proud of their heritage tend to accept the fact that Britain is one island and U.K. trade and a London base is part of that. 

I’m not going to go into Irish history … 

So I’d temporarily use Sterling and wait on what, the Euro, A Scottish currency.. 

in the mean time, my house value would decrease and many jobs would move south. The banks and finance conpanies are very very U.K. centric mainly as 90% of customers are U.K. non Scottish.  

To rebuild you’d need oil money, austerity or tax breaks for massive global organisations (don’t worry where the money came from, sounds very like modern colonialism).  The exact opposite of Green / anti poverty / more ethical taxation that we’d be promised.  
Then again, we should be used to that as the SNP promised education, eradication of poverty, improved health service. And their report card is a very clear F for all of these and many more. 
Ohh wait it’s not our fault,! It’s Westminster … 

 

[OTT]

 

 

@JudyJudyJudy you'll like this, check her face at the end  I don't think I've saw a face drop like that since Ozturk silenced Easter Road. 

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

 

@JudyJudyJudy you'll like this, check her face at the end  I don't think I've saw a face drop like that since Ozturk silenced Easter Road. 

 

😂😂 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

 

@JudyJudyJudy you'll like this, check her face at the end  I don't think I've saw a face drop like that since Ozturk silenced Easter Road. 

 

[Australis]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Playing the race care to the very end . 
 

 

 

 Shut the door on your way out,  you a complete and utter failure  

no humility , no dignity , no class 
 

 

https://x.com/stvnews/status/1787847745757127150?s=46&t=Uyg6zS_aUfEwlXY6vOoxzQ

 

 

Everyone knew it was coming.

It was guaranteed.

 

[Australis]

21 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Separatist desperation spot the difference competition 

Tells you everything about them.

Natural born liars.

[escobri]

Thank you for your service Humza the brief.

[XB52]

1 hour ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Any specific example? 

I'll answer when you give a specific example of Scotland being unable to be an independent country; unlike the hundreds of already independent countries 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

and today's caption competition..

 

 

(BBC Website 07.05.2024)

"Imagine Ross or Sarwar as First Minister"

[BlueRiver]

6 minutes ago, XB52 said:

I'll answer when you give a specific example of Scotland being unable to be an independent country; unlike the hundreds of already independent countries 

 

If you don't know that's fine chief. 

 

For the record I've never said Scotland couldn't be an independent country but you keep wrestling with that straw man. 

 

However a good starting point would be that 55% of the population didn't want it...

Edited May 7 by BlueRiver

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, escobri said:

"And then she launched the iron at her 🤣"

👏🤣

[doctor jambo]

2 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

and today's caption competition..

 

 

(BBC Website 07.05.2024)

So, John, at least you won’t be dependent on the greens to pass any legislation, oh wait……..

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, XB52 said:

I'll answer when you give a specific example of Scotland being unable to be an independent country; unlike the hundreds of already independent countries 

Is weird behaviour that people don't want to govern their own country. 

 

[Boof]

59 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

However a good starting point would be that 55% of the population didn't want it...

 

It does get rather tedious pointing out shite use of statistics, but here we go again.

 

2,001,926 voted No.

5,347,600 was the mid-June 2014 estimate of Scotland's population Mid-2014 Population Estimates Scotland - Population estimates by sex, age and administrative area - correction (nrscotland.gov.uk)

 

Therefore 37.436% of the population voted against independence.

[BlueRiver]

6 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

It does get rather tedious pointing out shite use of statistics, but here we go again.

 

2,001,926 voted No.

5,347,600 was the mid-June 2014 estimate of Scotland's population Mid-2014 Population Estimates Scotland - Population estimates by sex, age and administrative area - correction (nrscotland.gov.uk)

 

Therefore 37.436% of the population voted against independence.

 

55% of the voting age population that could be arsed going to the polling stations. 

 

Your pedantry adds very little though so you can save yourself the tedium in future. 

 

 

[John Findlay]

2 hours ago, Japan Jambo said:

and today's caption competition..

 

 

(BBC Website 07.05.2024)

Let's hope you last longer than a year.

[BlueRiver]

Good debate though lads as always. 

 

Still not a single example of how monetary policy is decided by the BoE purely for the benefit of SE England and quite frankly, barely an indication that any of you know the difference between monetary and fiscal policies. 

[Boof]

15 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

55% of the voting age population that could be arsed going to the polling stations. 

 

Which I have never questioned. If it's so simple to get it right - why not do so first time unless you're trying to push an agenda?

 

15 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

Your pedantry adds very little though so you can save yourself the tedium in future. 

 

You call it pedantry (opinion) - I call it accuracy (fact). So it adds factual information, but if you're pushing an agenda...facts can get in the way.

[BlueRiver]

3 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

Which I have never questioned. If it's so simple to get it right - why not do so first time unless you're trying to push an agenda?

 

 

You call it pedantry (opinion) - I call it accuracy (fact). So it adds factual information, but if you're pushing an agenda...facts can get in the way.

 

It's pedantry. 

 

Slice it whatever way you like. For starters most of us wouldn't take a vote and apply it to an overall population figure that includes minors. 

 

Unless you had an agenda to push to try and diminish the overall result of a vote I guess. 

 

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, BlueRiver said:

Last night I was accused of ill-thought out pish and bluster but I don't actually think half the folk on this thread can distinguish between monetary policy and fiscal policy. 

 

 

 

Indeed not.

[frankblack]

28 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Let's hope you last longer than a year.

 

They have had three leaders in a year yet don't want to call an election like they asked of the Tories? 🤔

[Boof]

1 hour ago, BlueRiver said:

 

If you don't know that's fine chief. 

 

For the record I've never said Scotland couldn't be an independent country but you keep wrestling with that straw man. 

 

However a good starting point would be that 55% of the population didn't want it...

 

8 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

It's pedantry. 

 

Still only your opinion.

 

8 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

Slice it whatever way you like. For starters most of us wouldn't take a vote and apply it to an overall population figure that includes minors. 

 

 

You did.

 

I pointed out your error and you're twisting yourself in knots trying to defend it.

[manaliveits105]

Kate Forbes gushing about John Swinney's  "inspirational " speech 

dodged a bullet there she always comes across as very false .

[John Findlay]

4 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Kate Forbes gushing about John Swinney's  "inspirational " speech 

dodged a bullet there she always comes across as very false .

She's being a politician. Her Christianity comes a long way behind her being a politician.

Edited May 7 by John Findlay

[BlueRiver]

5 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

 

Still only your opinion.

 

 

You did.

 

I pointed out your error and you're twisting yourself in knots trying to defend it.

 

Okay I appreciate your adherence to strict factual accuracy and look forward to similar applications in other threads across the board when referencing other elections and referendums. 

[Boof]

1 minute ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Okay I appreciate your adherence to strict factual accuracy and look forward to similar applications in other threads across the board when referencing other elections and referendums. 

 

There's been plenty already on this very thread

 

Keep your eyes peeled though - always happy to (try to) correct inaccurate data.

[hughesie27]

19 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

They have had three leaders in a year yet don't want to call an election like they asked of the Tories? 🤔

The Scottish Government just had an election and chose Swinney with a majority.

[BlueRiver]

2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

The Scottish Government just had an election and chose Swinney with a majority.

 

An "election" is pushing it. 

[hughesie27]

3 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

An "election" is pushing it. 

No, it's definitely an election.

[BlueRiver]

2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

No, it's definitely an election.

 

So Stephen Flynn and the rest of the SNP were purely advocating for a confirmatory vote in Parliament by MPs when they were slavering on about unelected PMs? 

 

Good to know. 

[frankblack]

23 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

So Stephen Flynn and the rest of the SNP were purely advocating for a confirmatory vote in Parliament by MPs when they were slavering on about unelected PMs? 

 

Good to know. 

 

Yep.  I'm glad that is cleared up.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Only the truly stupid or desperate would call Swinney's coronation an election.

The same people who screamed abuse at the Tory party for changing PM's without a general election are now satisfied that the Scottish government swap FM's at the drop of a hat.

It would be sad if it wasn't so predictable.

[hughesie27]

Absolutely raging that the Scottish Gov has a fairier democratic peocedure compared to WM.

[BlueRiver]

4 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Absolutely raging that the Scottish Gov has a fairier democratic peocedure compared to WM.

 

😂 aye cos the huge Tory majority at Westminster would obviously have turned around and voted against Sunak. 

 

"Raging". Very good. 

[frankblack]

4 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Absolutely raging that the Scottish Gov has a fairier democratic peocedure compared to WM.

 

You mean a procedure to repeatedly vote for Indy referendums until apathy sets in?

[Punks No Deid]

[Gundermann]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Only the truly stupid or desperate would call Swinney's coronation an election.

The same people who screamed abuse at the Tory party for changing PM's without a general election are now satisfied that the Scottish government swap FM's at the drop of a hat.

It would be sad if it wasn't so predictable.

 

It's democracy and a lot more democratic than Westminster due our system being proportional.

 

All parties have done similar. The system was designed by a Labour govt in Westminster btw, not the SNP. Dry yer eyes.

[Gundermann]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

Absolutely raging that the Scottish Gov has a fairier democratic peocedure compared to WM.

 

Incredible that some are satisfied with being governed by parties in Westminster that can have as little as a third of the popular vote. Crazy.

 

They'll be gurning about it though when the SNP win a clear majority of MPs on less than 40% of the vote. I'm absolutely fine to lose that state of affairs btw.

Edited May 7 by Gundermann

[The Real Maroonblood]

16 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

It's democracy and a lot more democratic than Westminster due our system being proportional.

 

All parties have done similar. The system was designed by a Labour govt in Westminster btw, not the SNP. Dry yer eyes.

[Boof]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

Absolutely raging that the Scottish Gov has a fairier democratic peocedure compared to WM.

 

 

Edited May 7 by Boof

[manaliveits105]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

You mean a procedure to repeatedly vote for Indy referendums until apathy sets in?

Keeps the dafties on the hook 

[luckydug]

3 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

They have had three leaders in a year yet don't want to call an election like they asked of the Tories? 🤔

Therefore the Tories should keep their traps shut on this subject  

[Ked]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

You mean a procedure to repeatedly vote for Indy referendums until apathy sets in?

That's already happened mate.

Which is why you and the merry maids of England lazily accept mediocrity. 

And democracy is fluid. 

The very essence of democracy means the population have a say .

The procedure is called voting a representative.

Are you unaware of this procedure?

 

I mean holy fekin fek man 😅

[Ked]

11 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Keeps the dafties on the hook 

The beautiful irony.

 

[Ked]

2 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Only the truly stupid or desperate would call Swinney's coronation an election.

The same people who screamed abuse at the Tory party for changing PM's without a general election are now satisfied that the Scottish government swap FM's at the drop of a hat.

It would be sad if it wasn't so predictable.

The first minister is elected by Parliament.

The parliament is elected by the population.

The parliament elected Swinney .

It isn't sad .

It wasn't predictable.