Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[AyrJambo]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

Do you have any idea how childish it looks that you keep deliberately making a typo on their name? Its petulant beyond belief  

 

Are you talking about the whole Eva Comrie situation ? Bit of a mess, but hardly unusual. Alba want a well known name running for Grangemouth because it will increase the likelihood of support. Not much different to Angus Robertson getting the nod for the Edinburgh Central seat, or how exactly Anum Qasair got the Airdrie seat. Parties are entitled to push candidates who they feel have the greatest likelihood of success. Sucks for Eva, and I don't necessarily agree but it is what it is. 

 

On it now being the people, I'm sorry that doesn't wash. Either they are lunatics, and there is examples of that. Or they're not and you just don't like them.

 

You can admit you just don't like them. Nothing wrong with that, and at least its not disingenuous rubbish.

 

But just to be absolutely clear, there were multiple occasions over the last 4 years where Sturgeon, Humza, Jenny Gilruth, Shona Robison and others have been unable to define a woman and tied themselves in knots over the Isla Bryson case. That is lunacy, and it was done partly because Sturgeon was drinking the GRA koolaid, and partly to march to the drum beat of the greens and lunatics like Maggie Chapman. So if we're going to throw terms like lunatic about, lets be accurate and specific. 

 

Good post

[Gundermann]

7 minutes ago, Carter said:

I can assure you I never voted Yes. You're getting me mixed up with someone else. 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

 

If only you got angry at your nonce-riddle Brit establishment. Deviance is demanded.

[OTT]

3 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

He was total s*ite, and on that basis, good riddance. I’m bored of the SNP to be honest, hope there’s a general election soon and they get whitewashed.

 

Don’t think there’s an appetite for independence anymore, and just about every aspect of daily life has been deteriorating up here for a long time.

 

He was pretty shite. Jim Sillars summed it up nicely on Sky news just after - "A follower, not a leader" - and I think thats true of the overwhelming majority that the party hirearchy want. Kate Forbes IMO is the best option going forward. Clear ideas, wants to get back to the day job and drop all this cultures wars pish and has integrity.

 

Disagree on there no longer being an appetite for Independence though. Polls are still 50/50, the Union is utterly failing to convince people. Both sides are just in a holding pattern until something gives. I think Scotland needs that 2nd vote to close the chapter on it, one way or the other. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Do you have any idea how childish it looks that you keep deliberately making a typo on their name? Its petulant beyond belief  

 

Are you talking about the whole Eva Comrie situation ? Bit of a mess, but hardly unusual. Alba want a well known name running for Grangemouth because it will increase the likelihood of support. Not much different to Angus Robertson getting the nod for the Edinburgh Central seat, or how exactly Anum Qasair got the Airdrie seat. Parties are entitled to push candidates who they feel have the greatest likelihood of success. Sucks for Eva, and I don't necessarily agree but it is what it is. 

 

On it now being the people, I'm sorry that doesn't wash. Either they are lunatics, and there is examples of that. Or they're not and you just don't like them.

 

You can admit you just don't like them. Nothing wrong with that, and at least its not disingenuous rubbish.

 

But just to be absolutely clear, there were multiple occasions over the last 4 years where Sturgeon, Humza, Jenny Gilruth, Shona Robison and others have been unable to define a woman and tied themselves in knots over the Isla Bryson case. That is lunacy, and it was done partly because Sturgeon was drinking the GRA koolaid, and partly to march to the drum beat of the greens and lunatics like Maggie Chapman. So if we're going to throw terms like lunatic about, lets be accurate and specific. 

Good posting 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

He was pretty shite. Jim Sillars summed it up nicely on Sky news just after - "A follower, not a leader" - and I think thats true of the overwhelming majority that the party hirearchy want. Kate Forbes IMO is the best option going forward. Clear ideas, wants to get back to the day job and drop all this cultures wars pish and has integrity.

 

Disagree on there no longer being an appetite for Independence though. Polls are still 50/50, the Union is utterly failing to convince people. Both sides are just in a holding pattern until something gives. I think Scotland needs that 2nd vote to close the chapter on it, one way or the other. 

I know Kate isn’t really much a friend of Dorothy but least she presents as decent intelligent and honest and is able to put her personal views on the back burner and not let it affect policies . Besides the Seethe would be a site to behold if she became FM imagine Harvie et al ? 😂😂fabulous 

 

he and Sturgeon started the culture wars and it’s ended both of them 

[AyrJambo]

11 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

He was total s*ite, and on that basis, good riddance. I’m bored of the SNP to be honest, hope there’s a general election soon and they get whitewashed.

 

Don’t think there’s an appetite for independence anymore, and just about every aspect of daily life has been deteriorating up here for a long time.

 

Thankfully your boredom threshold doesn't dictate to the rest of us what out appetite for political change might be

That would be deterioration under the UK union?

[Gundermann]

4 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Do you have any idea how childish it looks that you keep deliberately making a typo on their name? Its petulant beyond belief  

 

Are you talking about the whole Eva Comrie situation ? Bit of a mess, but hardly unusual. Alba want a well known name running for Grangemouth because it will increase the likelihood of support. Not much different to Angus Robertson getting the nod for the Edinburgh Central seat, or how exactly Anum Qasair got the Airdrie seat. Parties are entitled to push candidates who they feel have the greatest likelihood of success. Sucks for Eva, and I don't necessarily agree but it is what it is. 

 

On it now being the people, I'm sorry that doesn't wash. Either they are lunatics, and there is examples of that. Or they're not and you just don't like them.

 

You can admit you just don't like them. Nothing wrong with that, and at least its not disingenuous rubbish.

 

But just to be absolutely clear, there were multiple occasions over the last 4 years where Sturgeon, Humza, Jenny Gilruth, Shona Robison and others have been unable to define a woman and tied themselves in knots over the Isla Bryson case. That is lunacy, and it was done partly because Sturgeon was drinking the GRA koolaid, and partly to march to the drum beat of the greens and lunatics like Maggie Chapman. So if we're going to throw terms like lunatic about, lets be accurate and specific. 

 

And, why Abla?

 

The spelling mistake is typical of the gang of rabid extremists and nutjobs that is Abla, sorry Alba (have they learned how to pronounce it yet?).

 

As to policies, first of all it was indpendence now and only independence - apart their obsession with trans issues though. How closer are we to indy because of Alba? How does their strategy really differ from anyone elses?

 

As I've said before, I'm in no party and given how the SNP and Greens have soiled the bed, I'm very happy about that. Alba are another case though.

[TallPaul]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

I know Kate isn’t really much a friend of Dorothy but least she presents as decent intelligent and honest and is able to put her personal views on the back burner and not let it affect policies . Besides the Seethe would be a site to behold if she became FM imagine Harvie et al ? 😂😂fabulous 

 

he and Sturgeon started the culture wars and it’s ended both of them 

By this you mean raging homophobe that believes gay people shouldn't have the right to get married?

[AyrJambo]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I know Kate isn’t really much a friend of Dorothy but least she presents as decent intelligent and honest and is able to put her personal views on the back burner and not let it affect policies . Besides the Seethe would be a site to behold if she became FM imagine Harvie et al ? 😂😂fabulous 

 

he and Sturgeon started the culture wars and it’s ended both of them 

 

Dorothy Paul?

I kinda liked her

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, TallPaul said:

By this you mean raging homophobe that believes gay people shouldn't have the right to get married?

She’s entitled to her views . I am entitled to disagree with her . I don’t agree with gay marraige either , for different reasons to her though . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Dorothy Paul?

I kinda liked her

She was fabulous . Loved her Glesgae patter 

[AyrJambo]

1 minute ago, Gundermann said:

 

And, why Abla?

 

The spelling mistake is typical of the gang of rabid extremists and nutjobs that is Abla, sorry Alba (have they learned how to pronounce it yet?).

 

As to policies, first of all it was indpendence now and only independence - apart their obsession with trans issues though. How closer are we to indy because of Alba? How does their strategy really differ from anyone elses?

 

As I've said before, I'm in no party and given how the SNP and Greens have soiled the bed, I'm very happy about that. Alba are another case though.

 

It is a childish look for you but each to their own

 

Their strategy is the same as the SNP's - an S30, Westminster sanctioned referendum

Although Regan's yet-to-happen Referendum Bill posits that a referendum should be held on whether the SP should have powers to legislate for and hold an independece referendum

 

The only party with a real grasp of the constitutional realities are the ISP

 

 

[Jeffros Furios]

18 minutes ago, XB52 said:

I'm more than happy with the fact that I don't hate minorities. No doubt you are happy in your hatred for anyone not the exact same as you. I feel sorry for you

Apart from Jews 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Jeffros Furios said:

Apart from Jews 

😂

[TallPaul]

20 minutes ago, XB52 said:

I'm more than happy with the fact that I don't hate minorities. No doubt you are happy in your hatred for anyone not the exact same as you. I feel sorry for you

You literally hate anyone that doesn't agree with you.

[Jeffros Furios]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

😂

And he loves wee Mehmet in the saunas 

[XB52]

2 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Apart from Jews 

Boring. I hate zionists committing genocide against the indigenous population of Palestine. The same view that many Jewish organisations have. Of course, these would be the wrong kind of Jews to the zionists. Anyway, off topic

[XB52]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

😂

Ah, mister u turn now supports the zionists, not a surprise

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

And he loves wee Mehmet in the saunas 

 

[Pasquale for King]

33 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Scottish identity is open to anyone who chooses to live here. As to the border, it's one of the oldest national boundaries in the world and the Saltire one of the oldest flags.

 

And aye, I've got more in common with an ordinary Mancunian - or Dubliner or Berliner - than with the Duke of Athol but solidarity and internationalism doesn't demand political union.

Well said 

[XB52]

3 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

And he loves wee Mehmet in the saunas 

You and your wee pals seem to have a real problem with gays. Watch out, jjj will be angry with you. Mind you,he's probably gone full hetro to fit in with all his bigot buddies

[AyrJambo]

Now now boys play nice!

[Shooter McGavin]

19 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Thankfully your boredom threshold doesn't dictate to the rest of us what out appetite for political change might be

That would be deterioration under the UK union?

After the last few years, which have been a disaster for the SNP, do you really think enough people would put their faith in the SNP to pull off independance? Cause I certainly wouldn't. In fact, I wouldn't trust them to put on a replacement bus service without it being a total disaster.

 

With regards to your second point, the Scottish government has devolved powers such as health, education, justice, transport, housing, the environment etc. Either the SNP doesn't have any impact on daily life in this country, or they do and they relentlessly make a **** of it. Which is it?

 

By the way, I voted for independance back in 2014, but after seeing how much of a disaster a dysfunctional government can make of Brexit, there's absolutely no chance I'd back the SNP and their independance campaign.

 

Edited April 29 by Shooter McGavin

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

28 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Cracks me up the delusion of unionists on here

SNP leader resigns so independence dream must be over

 

When was the last time Scotland was independent? This ideology,fantasy is effing hilarious 😂 

[OTT]

5 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

And, why Abla?

 

The spelling mistake is typical of the gang of rabid extremists and nutjobs that is Abla, sorry Alba (have they learned how to pronounce it yet?).

 

As to policies, first of all it was indpendence now and only independence - apart their obsession with trans issues though. How closer are we to indy because of Alba? How does their strategy really differ from anyone elses?

 

As I've said before, I'm in no party and given how the SNP and Greens have soiled the bed, I'm very happy about that. Alba are another case though.

 

I've asked for examples of lunacy within Alba and got nothing. Have you got examples of rabid extremists or nutjobs? It reeks of "if you say it enough times it must be true". 

 

Alba's position and fundamentalist stance on Independence is because many believe the SNP have strayed from the cause of Independence. Christ, Ian Blackford is fishing for an Ermine robe!!  Kirsty Blackman (frmr deputy westminster leader) has repeatedly downplayed Independence, Sturgeon did absolutely nothing to advance the cause of Independence in her time in office - Polling is the exact same now as when she took office. The Supreme court mess did irreparable damage to the legal options for Independence. Now they have Jamie Hepburn releasing papers with zero fanfare that journalists are openly laughing about. If the British government will not concede a section 30, and we may not hold our own referendum, then the only meaningful option left is to use an election as effectively a referendum. To make the mandate to negotiate independence so clear that the UK government cannot weasel out of it. How successful that would be, remains to be seen but would showcase that the strategy is evolving and the cause remains firmly on the agenda. Winning the popular vote is no mean feat. 

 

Alba have also sourced legal opinion on Scottish Independence https://www.albaparty.org/international_legal_opinion - essentially that there is an international legal route available if they can demonstrate support (and how do you demonstrate support, if not through a referendum? The ballot box.. an election). I'm not sure the SNP have done anything in recent years to advance the case for Independence, their governance over the last few years has, if anything had a negative impact. Salmond, love him or hate him, set the standard on competent governance. George Foulkes correctly criticised him for "doing it delberately", that was the point. Demonstrate competence, and support follows. Divisive nonsense like the GRA pulls people apart and you cannot win a referendum by dividing people on other issues. 

 

Alba being obsessed with trans issues is a bit laughable. Its entirely based around how hard the SNP have pushed on the GRA - Alba have pulled back equally as hard. Alba members that I have interacted with couldn't be less interested in trans issues, just unwilling to compromise on womens rights to accomodate them. What trans people do is their own business but when it interferes with others, then there is an issue - and self ID interferes with others. Its like if someone decides they're moving into your house, you're obviously going to oppose it in the strongest possible terms, but what they do on their own is immaterial to you, as long it doesn't impact you. 

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, Shooter McGavin said:

After the last few years, which have been a disaster for the SNP, do you really think enough people would put their faith in the SNP to pull off independance? Cause I certainly wouldn't. In fact, I wouldn't trust them to put on a replacement bus service without it being a total disaster.

 

With regards to your second point, the Scottish government has devolved powers such as health, education, justice, transport, housing, the environment etc. Either the SNP doesn't have any impact on daily life in this country, or they do and they relentlessly make a **** of it. Which is it?

 

By the way, I voted for independance back in 2014, but after seeing how much of a disaster a dysfunctional government can make of Brexit, there's absolutely no chance I'd back the SNP and their independance campaign.

 

When a woman- jenny Gilruth, or Sturgeon cannot tell you what sex someone is, even when they are themselves that thing, I wouldnt cast a vote for them.

We need someone who can deal in reality, because the mess we are in is very real indeed.

The amount of energy and cash that has been wasted dealing in nonsense it deeply regrettable. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

And he loves wee Mehmet in the saunas 

Jesus h Christ he’s now saying I’m straight !  FFS he clearly doesn’t know me . Ps rather homophobic comment from him ironically decrying others alleged homophobia . Anyway this is way off topic . Back to Humza . He still finished ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

womens rights to accomodate them. What trans people do is their own business but when it interferes with others, then there is an issue - and self ID interferes with others. Its like if someone decides they're moving into your house, you're obviously going to oppose it in the strongest possible terms, but what they do on their own is immaterial to you, as long it doesn't impact you. 

Yes he’s just stirring it . Alba quite rightly are concerned regarding women and girls rights to safety privacy and dignity and the erasure of gay and lesbian identity to ludicrous identity politics . 

[AyrJambo]

7 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

After the last few years, which have been a disaster for the SNP, do you really think enough people would put their faith in the SNP to pull off independance? Cause I certainly wouldn't. In fact, I wouldn't trust them to put on a replacement bus service without it being a total disaster.

 

With regards to your second point, the Scottish government has devolved powers such as health, education, justice, transport, housing, the environment etc. Either the SNP doesn't have any impact on daily life in this country, or they do and they relentlessly make a **** of it. Which is it?

 

By the way, I voted for independance back in 2014, but after seeing how much of a disaster a dysfunctional government can make of Brexit, there's absolutely no chance I'd back the SNP and their independance campaign.

 

 

No and I wouldn't either

I've stressed many times on here that the SNP is no longer a vehicle for independence

They have no strategy for independence and their main focus is on the marketing of the idea of independence, to Scottish voters, in order to retain their Westminster seats ands therefore their main source of funding

 

Power devolved is power retained and any devolved Scottish government will struggle to succeed without the real powers that independence brings

[OTT]

19 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

It is a childish look for you but each to their own

 

Their strategy is the same as the SNP's - an S30, Westminster sanctioned referendum

Although Regan's yet-to-happen Referendum Bill posits that a referendum should be held on whether the SP should have powers to legislate for and hold an independece referendum

 

The only party with a real grasp of the constitutional realities are the ISP

 

 

 

A very fair question is why the SNP didn't immediately table this when the section 30 was denied under Sturgeon. Why are Alba having to?

 

If we cannot have a referendum on Independence because that is a reserved matter, then can we have a referendum on that being a reserved matter? Almost about continuing to press the boundaries and seeing where there is give and then pressing on in that direction. Need to keep testing and figuring out how to get out of the current logjam. If the Scottish people want someone and it passes via a referendum, then why shouldn't it become law? Its the express will of the people, and I think it would be difficult to argue against that. 

 

The SNP haven't done anything to advance the cause of Independence in recent years. They how is very important because no Prime Minister wants it on their record that the Union effectively died on their watch. Therefore, until support for Independence collapses, there won't be a prime minister ballsy enough to chance it. Meaning, no future referendum as we're at an impasse. Based on polling over the last 10 years, approximately half want to leave and half want to stay. The catch 22 is that support increased massively during the referendum campaign (started at 29%), so when Independence is campaigned for, people buy in. But you can't exactly campaign on a greatscale when there isn't a referendum on the cards. 

 

Unless, the SNP were to say that the next election (not 2026, then one after) will be a squarely about Independence, and they will spend the next parliamentary term governing wisely and campaigning for Indy in the strongest possible terms. Not ideal, but works within the walls set IMO. 

[Mikey1874]

The key to independence is getting enough support for it. To force the UK Government to agree a mechanism. Like the 2015 election result. 

 

As noted above, Sturgeon got bogged down in unnecessary and self defeating waste of time actions  The key is to build support whether that is focusing on the 10/20% of people who are persuadable. Or showing you can deliver competent Government to prove you are worth backing to take more powers.

[AyrJambo]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

A very fair question is why the SNP didn't immediately table this when the section 30 was denied under Sturgeon. Why are Alba having to?

 

If we cannot have a referendum on Independence because that is a reserved matter, then can we have a referendum on that being a reserved matter? Almost about continuing to press the boundaries and seeing where there is give and then pressing on in that direction. Need to keep testing and figuring out how to get out of the current logjam. If the Scottish people want someone and it passes via a referendum, then why shouldn't it become law? Its the express will of the people, and I think it would be difficult to argue against that. 

 

The SNP haven't done anything to advance the cause of Independence in recent years. They how is very important because no Prime Minister wants it on their record that the Union effectively died on their watch. Therefore, until support for Independence collapses, there won't be a prime minister ballsy enough to chance it. Meaning, no future referendum as we're at an impasse. Based on polling over the last 10 years, approximately half want to leave and half want to stay. The catch 22 is that support increased massively during the referendum campaign (started at 29%), so when Independence is campaigned for, people buy in. But you can't exactly campaign on a greatscale when there isn't a referendum on the cards. 

 

Unless, the SNP were to say that the next election (not 2026, then one after) will be a squarely about Independence, and they will spend the next parliamentary term governing wisely and campaigning for Indy in the strongest possible terms. Not ideal, but works within the walls set IMO. 

 

That is the thrust of Ash Regan's proposed Scottish Parliament Referendum Bill which she attempted to get the SNP to bring forward when she was a member of the SNP

And the resurrection of which was one of Alba's requirements for supporting Yousaf in the Tory VONC

The SNP have just chosen to sacrifice Yousaf in the hope they can shoe-horn in another continuity candidate within28 days so that essentially nothing will change

Funny that...

[Jeffros Furios]

10 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Jesus h Christ he’s now saying I’m straight !  FFS he clearly doesn’t know me . Ps rather homophobic comment from him ironically decrying others alleged homophobia . Anyway this is way off topic . Back to Humza . He still finished ? 

Ignore him Jimmy hes quite a aggressive chap .. you wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley  

[Carter]

40 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Cracks me up the delusion of unionists on here

SNP leader resigns so independence dream must be over

 

Oh it's over alright. All this has done is further intensify the hatred between SNP followers and the supporters of octopus arms. If the SNP think they can bestow an ignorant moron like Gilruth upon us as unelected FM then good luck. 

 

Thankfully all this is unfolding whilst we're protected by being a constituent part of the United Kingdom. These are the imbeciles who would be tasked with navigating an Independent Scotland. I'd wager the majority of the public are disgusted at what they're watching play out.

 

A man so stupid that he thought he could humiliate two lunatic ideologues and expect to count on their support. It truly beggars belief.

 

Devolution is a failed experiment in Scotland. 

[BlueRiver]

4 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

A very fair question is why the SNP didn't immediately table this when the section 30 was denied under Sturgeon. Why are Alba having to?

 

If we cannot have a referendum on Independence because that is a reserved matter, then can we have a referendum on that being a reserved matter? Almost about continuing to press the boundaries and seeing where there is give and then pressing on in that direction. Need to keep testing and figuring out how to get out of the current logjam. If the Scottish people want someone and it passes via a referendum, then why shouldn't it become law? Its the express will of the people, and I think it would be difficult to argue against that. 

 

The SNP haven't done anything to advance the cause of Independence in recent years. They how is very important because no Prime Minister wants it on their record that the Union effectively died on their watch. Therefore, until support for Independence collapses, there won't be a prime minister ballsy enough to chance it. Meaning, no future referendum as we're at an impasse. Based on polling over the last 10 years, approximately half want to leave and half want to stay. The catch 22 is that support increased massively during the referendum campaign (started at 29%), so when Independence is campaigned for, people buy in. But you can't exactly campaign on a greatscale when there isn't a referendum on the cards. 

 

Unless, the SNP were to say that the next election (not 2026, then one after) will be a squarely about Independence, and they will spend the next parliamentary term governing wisely and campaigning for Indy in the strongest possible terms. Not ideal, but works within the walls set IMO. 

 

I expect the likelihood is that it would've been referred to the supreme court and fallen as such a bill would directly infringe upon a reserved matter. Pretty settled jurisprudence currently regarding the Scotland Act. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Ignore him Jimmy hes quite a aggressive chap .. you wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley  

I’ve met a few people in a dark alley but def wouldn’t meet him in one 😎

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

That is the thrust of Ash Regan's proposed Scottish Parliament Referendum Bill which she attempted to get the SNP to bring forward when she was a member of the SNP

And the resurrection of which was one of Alba's requirements for supporting Yousaf in the Tory VONC

The SNP have just chosen to sacrifice Yousaf in the hope they can shoe-horn in another continuity candidate within28 days so that essentially nothing will change

Funny that...

Yes his crawling in with the greens was worrying. Those creeps want to hold some form of power 

[AyrJambo]

10 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

The key to independence is getting enough support for it. To force the UK Government to agree a mechanism. Like the 2015 election result. 

 

As noted above, Sturgeon got bogged down in unnecessary and self defeating waste of time actions  The key is to build support whether that is focusing on the 10/20% of people who are persuadable. Or showing you can deliver competent Government to prove you are worth backing to take more powers.

 

No the key is to assert the sovereignty of the Scottish people, lent to the Scottish Parliament, by pro-idependence parties standing on a manifest commitment to hold a referendum

If people vote for that then go ahead and hold and run a referendum in Scotland

No UK interference

Let the UK open court proceedings where they will then have to argue that Scots DO NOT have a right to self-determination

 

Unfortunately the current SNP leadrship will not pursue thsi

Edited April 29 by AyrJambo
add italic

[AyrJambo]

4 minutes ago, Carter said:

Oh it's over alright. All this has done is further intensify the hatred between SNP followers and the supporters of octopus arms. If the SNP think they can bestow an ignorant moron like Gilruth upon us as unelected FM then good luck. 

 

Thankfully all this is unfolding whilst we're protected by being a constituent part of the United Kingdom. These are the imbeciles who would be tasked with navigating an Independent Scotland. I'd wager the majority of the public are disgusted at what they're watching play out.

 

A man so stupid that he thought he could humiliate two lunatic ideologues and expect to count on their support. It truly beggars belief.

 

Devolution is a failed experiment in Scotland. 

 

You're conflating a political party with a political movement

[Shooter McGavin]

4 minutes ago, Carter said:

Thankfully all this is unfolding whilst we're protected by being a constituent part of the United Kingdom. These are the imbeciles who would be tasked with navigating an Independent Scotland. I'd wager the majority of the public are disgusted at what they're watching play out.

Pretty much where I stand, hence my previous suggestion that I reckon folk are fed up and bored of the independance chat, and would rather get on with the daily running of the country, which has been appaling.

 

Like watching your neighbour crashing his lawn mower, you're hardly going to go out and give him the keys to your car, are you?

[pablo]

I actually feel a wee bit sorry for him. He should never have been given the positions he's had.

 

He's going to be remembered for the "white" speech and as a figure of ridicule. I don't think he's a racist and he had a point to make on diversity. But he's just a shit politician, ill-judged at best but probably just stupid. 

[BlueRiver]

Just now, pablo said:

I actually feel a wee bit sorry for him. He should never have been given the positions he's had.

 

He's going to be remembered for the "white" speech and as a figure of ridicule. I don't think he's a racist and he had a point to make on diversity. But he's just a shit politician, ill-judged at best but probably just stupid. 

 

Now now...he'll be remembered for falling off his scooter and throwing a wee hissy fit when he got laughed at as well. 

[Carter]

1 minute ago, AyrJambo said:

 

You're conflating a political party with a political movement

No, I'm doing no such thing. I'm pointing out the two main political components of the Independence movement absolutely despise one another. So much so as a fanatical FM had to be told he was expendable because any agreement between SNP and Alba was simply not an option. 

 

The fat controller is agitating from the sidelines trying to maintain a sense of relevance. He's a thoroughly repulsive discredited beast. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

Has XB52 called anyone a bigot yet?

[il Duce McTarkin]

7 minutes ago, pablo said:

I actually feel a wee bit sorry for him. He should never have been given the positions he's had.

 

He's going to be remembered for the "white" speech and as a figure of ridicule. I don't think he's a racist and he had a point to make on diversity. But he's just a shit politician, ill-judged at best but probably just stupid. 

 

This.

 

6 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Now now...he'll be remembered for falling off his scooter and throwing a wee hissy fit when he got laughed at as well. 

 

And this.

[Carter]

2 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

Has XB52 called anyone a bigot yet?

Aye, called me a bigot. I've not bothered to ask him why he believes that to be the case. He seems upset.

[OTT]

8 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

I expect the likelihood is that it would've been referred to the supreme court and fallen as such a bill would directly infringe upon a reserved matter. Pretty settled jurisprudence currently regarding the Scotland Act. 

 

Maybe, but it also opens up a can of worms in the sense of the Scottish people being denied the opportunity to change the terms of the Scotland act. 

 

It would kill off any notion that this is a voluntary union - otherwise, how can we leave &/or how can we amend the terms of our membership of the UK? 

 

If things become so desperate that we're in a situation where we are not allowed to have a vote on our own future and it is utterly hopeless, I think there becomes a very reasonable arguement to refer the matter to the UN under its decolonization programme . Before anyone jumps down my throat and says thats ridiculous, a colony is defined as "a country or area under the full or partial political control of another country", if we cannot have a vote on our own future because it is being prevented by another country, then I think there is very interesting case to answer there. One of those where although we don't fit the generally accepted characterisitics, by definition there is enough there to ask the question as last resort. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

Just now, Carter said:

Aye, called me a bigot. I've not bothered to ask him why he believes that to be the case. He seems upset.

 

He's always upset.

A deeply unhappy and objectionable individual.

Could do with a nice cup of tea and a spot of classical music.

[Carter]

10 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Pretty much where I stand, hence my previous suggestion that I reckon folk are fed up and bored of the independance chat, and would rather get on with the daily running of the country, which has been appaling.

 

Like watching your neighbour crashing his lawn mower, you're hardly going to go out and give him the keys to your car, are you?

Pretty much. This is an absolute disaster for the Independence movement no matter how much they try and claim otherwise. The factions within the separatist ideology clearly absolutely despise each other. 

 

It's all going to shit and you've got some very upset and angry people stomping around. 

[Libertarian]

22 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

No and I wouldn't either

I've stressed many times on here that the SNP is no longer a vehicle for independence

They have no strategy for independence and their main focus is on the marketing of the idea of independence, to Scottish voters, in order to retain their Westminster seats ands therefore their main source of funding

 

Power devolved is power retained and any devolved Scottish government will struggle to succeed without the real powers that independence brings

Couldn't agree more AyrJambo. Unfortunately there are too many in the SNP who are content since they are making too good a living with the status quo. The thing is more and more of the electorate can see through them and I really don't think that they understand what is coming down the line electorally as they are likely to be destroyed.