The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Floyd]

Our RFCRIP/Sevco sympathiser should note that Hector's appeal should have no bearing on the dodgy contracts inquiry, the thing Orcs are most concerned about.

 

 

The only person or persons who should be concerned about this, would be the previous owners of Rangers (RIP) as they will be the ones pursued for cash.

 

The other investigation by the SPL is entirely different and separate from the FTT result or the new appeal.

[davie1980]

HMRC are appealing because they lost the original case: so Rangers had done nothing wrong. Not difficult to understand. Sorry if that doesnt sit in your end of Glasgow.

 

they were found not guilty in the FIRST TIER tax tribunal. that tells me they won a battle, not the war

 

there is also a difference between criminal and sporting "cheating" the tax case only deals with one of these and the sporting authorities are still investigating the other

 

and as a previous poster points out, the win in the FTTT doesn't take away from the fact they were found guilty in the small tax case with PAYE and NIC,

which makes them cheats in my book.

 

these should shine a little more light on the situation

 

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/hmrc-big-tax-case-victory-lawyers/4008

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-cheating-football-taxman/3259

[BRAVEHEART1874]

 

 

 

HMRC are appealing because they lost the original case: so Rangers had done nothing wrong. Not difficult to understand. Sorry if that doesnt sit in your end of Glasgow.

 

Hahaha wtf someone clearly reads the daily record instead of the proper report - rangers did nuffin wrong ?? Do one

[Seymour M Hersh]

HMRC are appealing because they lost the original case: so Rangers had done nothing wrong. Not difficult to understand. Sorry if that doesnt sit in your end of Glasgow.

 

So a Hearts forum is infested by sellik fans (well one thread is). Oh you orcs are just funny!!

[lauriesrank]

:bricktop:

 

__

 

So is this an appeal against the whole EBT thing then. I dunno if I want Hector to win or not - presumably all punishments apply to Oldco, and part of me finds it rather amusing Murray got shot of Rangers in an unseemly haste to avoid the predicted EBT fines.

 

Knowing that didn't transpire and they basically committed hari-kari is quite mirth provoking! It's also confusing to your average hun when there is a grey-area of guilty/not guilty.

Hope they win their appeal, which may well be the first time I have said that about the Inland Revenue (they're hounding me for ?650 NI), anyway, for 'hari-kari' you might want to see seppuku!

[Mysterion]

Rangers died and a new club was formed with a similar name.

 

Never let them forget.

RFC - died of arrogance and disrespect.

[2NaFish]

 

 

 

So a Hearts forum is infested by sellik fans (well one thread is). Oh you orcs are just funny!!

 

tbf, I do live in the east end of Glasgow and am a stones throw from Celtic park. I wouldn't imagine anyone living this close to all things Celtic would develop a liking for them though.

[Rudolf's Mate]

 

 

HMRC are appealing because they lost the original case: so Rangers had done nothing wrong. Not difficult to understand. Sorry if that doesnt sit in your end of Glasgow.

 

Wrong forum for this hun loving pesh!

[The Mighty Thor]

This continues to amuse.

 

Being a clearly sellick minded, nay feenyin, Hearts supporter it pleases me greatly that the Hun is suffering.

 

Horribly exposed at the weekend on the pitch, and now Hector takes his leave to appeal and the whole circus continues. All we need now is for the dual-contracts tribunal to come in for the full house.

 

Hopefully our resident hun apologist hangs around

[Dunks]

Followed by the Chinese asking for their money back

[Mysterion]

Followed by the Chinese asking for their money back

 

It would be the greatest ever Chinese takeaway!

[lost in space]

Don't know about you mate, but my end of Glasgow's somewhere west of Haymarket and easy of Sighthill.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but see if you're not happy about how your tax money's spent, isn't the choice to elect someone who'll spend it differently or to be quiet and lump it?

Is this your nickname?????

[Guest Dipped Flake]

Previously charged, previously tried, previously found innocent. Where does the "cheated" come from, other than the boring, predictable, celtic-minded people?

 

In case you missed it, the club you, for some strange reason seem tow ant to stand up for all the time, died due to it cheating the taxman out of millions of pounds. I repeat, they CHEATED the taxman out of millions of pounds (not the big tax case). And they have never been found innocent as the case is still ongoing.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

I'm far from being HMRC's greatest fan but suggestions that they're pursuing this further because they're riddled with Selleck fans are just plain paranoia. Don't forget that Dodgy Dave's personal liability was close to ?10 million. And aside from a verbose but empty statement after the verdict was made public he's stayed uncharacteristically quiet and it appears no concrete steps have been taken against those his anger was directed at.

[tartofmidlothian]

Is this your nickname?????

 

 

Wasn't in before the edit lock, sadly.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Thats not accurate at all. Do you think that all wealthy individuals who dodge tax will be chased as rigorously? Wasnt that why the goverment reduced the higher rate of tax - so that high-rate tax-payers would stop finding methods of cheating?

 

Do you seriously think that other companies will be chased as strenuously as Rangers?

 

In my opinion football clubs are worth a lot more to society than other businesses and should, perhaps be allowed a little flexibility with regards to payments. They shouldnt be screwed and then re-screwed.

Are you a Hearts fan?

[DETTY29]

Are you a Hearts fan?

 

I think he is.

 

I'd be interested though what his view point would have been if this was Celtic being accused rather than Rangers.

 

Mind you, if this had been Celtic, this whole thread would have been at least 25% longer.

Edited February 5, 2013 by DETTY29

[kevinref]

taking from another website

Blog from former employee of corsica on twitter

 

Corsica was a main player on rtc who helped expose whyte as an arse!!

Great read but a bit on the long side

Last paragraph is a cracker

 

 

Yesterday I tweeted that 6 major City players had told me that Sevco had only raised c?9m

in the recent share flotation. I promised to explain more today?

 

 

 

A few weeks ago I had arranged a lunch in the City with some contacts to discuss a work issue.

Given their backgrounds and knowledge,

I took the opportunity to ask about Sevco and the recent flotation on AIM.

 

 

 

Obviously there are no paper trails only supposition, rumour and guesswork.

But these people are not amateurs or idiots and I would trust their judgement 100%.

If you don?t believe me that is your lookout. For obvious reasons,

I will not name my sources other than:

 

 

 

A, Director of global private equity and securities firm

 

B, Partner in international asset manager

 

C, major UK entrepreneur

 

D, Director of global niche bank & asset manager

 

E, CEO of a UK bank

 

 

 

Between them these people control, own and/or manage well in excess of ?100bn.

 

 

 

The discussion threw up some interesting points which I sent to a couple of people

simply to add to the gathering body of evidence and rumour. The key point here was:

 

 

 

The only cash raised in the flotation was from individual investors (ie fans).

Everything else was in the form of promissory notes and loans and the

?institutional investors? were acting on behalf of and directly under instruction

of clients (in other words, not your pension fund).

 

 

 

One of the people to whom I sent the info raised a very valid point

which was that they understood one could not use promissory notes and loans

in a share flotation. Not being an expert, I promised to go back and clarify matters.

 

 

 

I asked D about this as the person with most knowledge of shares,

market regulation and flotation. I provided them with a copy of the flotation prospectus.

They explained it thus:

 

 

 

Firstly, remember there are two companies:

 

 

 

Sevco (or, The Rangers Football Club Ltd if you prefer);

Rangers International Football Club plc (RIFC).

 

 

Right now, we are only interested in RIFC plc because Sevco did not float on AIM

and it is now owned entirely by RIFC (ie. all shares in Sevco are owned by RIFC plc

and not by individual people). RIFC plc is owned by its shareholders who

(subject to any legal restrictions) may buy and sell shares in RIFC plc.

 

 

 

Secondly, think of there being 3 types of shares ? equity swaps; placed shares;

offer shares.

 

 

 

1. Equity Swaps ? these shares were simply given to existing shareholders of Sevco at

a pre-determined rate (eg 2 for 1) prior to the flotation. No cash changed hands.

 

2. Placed Shares ? these shares were pre-sold to a number of institutions

(but see above) subject to certain conditions. If you read the Prospectus

very carefully not all of the conditions have been revealed.

It is our understanding and perfectly feasible therefore that

no cash has been paid to RIFC plc for these shares. Furthermore,

if you read the Prospectus very carefully again,

there is no definitive statement that cash is guaranteed to be received for these shares.

They do ?though have a cash value hence the Prospectus and subsequent statements refer to

?Share Capital?. The suspicion is that these are a front for Ticketus. In other words,

Ticketus have swapped the money they are owed by Rangers FC for shares in RIFC plc.

At some point in the future,

Ticketus will sell these shares in order to recoup its losses and/or may even

just be holding them as security against repayment from season ticket income.

 

3. Offer Shares ? these are the shares which fans were invited to purchase.

The Prospects is unequivocal that these ? unlike the Placed Shares ? are irrevocable,

ie they must be paid for in cash and effectively constitute a legally binding contract

between purchaser and RIFC plc.

 

 

 

Therefore the cash that was generated for the company by the flotation potentially

only came from the fans who bought the Offer Shares, ie c?9m.

 

 

 

Note also that there is no definitive guarantee that the money supposedly raised

by the Placed Shares will be spent on the list of improvements set out in the Prospectus.

Now contrast that with how the funds raised by the Offer Shares will be spent.

Spot the difference?

 

 

 

Note also that the flotation also allows for further delays to the production

of any meaningful accounts for Sevco. RIFC plc must produce interim results

every 6 months under AIM regulations but audited accounts can be delayed to August 2014.

 

 

 

My contacts have made clear they can see nothing illegal in what Sevco/RIFC plc

has done here. Immoral and unethical perhaps, but not illegal.

The fans have paid to save the club several times over because the current directors

have already had their initial outlay (in the form of loans) handsomely repaid; fans?

season ticket funds have been used to keep the club going to date; and funds from the fans

through the Offer Share are being used as new working capital.

The Prospectus also sneakily gets the fans to pay the costs of the flotation.

You really have to hand it to Chuckles?

 

 

 

I should add that prior to discussing the matter with me:

 

 

 

Nobody had heard of or seen the fabled institutional investor roadshows;

Bar two people with strong football connections and who had previous knowledge

of Charles Green from Sheffield Utd, nobody had heard of Charles Green;

Nobody had heard of Zeus Capital or Imran Ahmad.

 

 

Every single person at the lunch was incredibly scathing about the idea of

any institutional investor going into football shares now let alone in Scotland.

It?s ?just financial suicide? was the unanimous verdict.

The consensus opinion was that there would be another insolvency event

because the numbers just do not and could not stack up and they do not have enough cash

to see them through 2013

(their only hope is immediate league restructuring to parachute them back into the

top league).

[Mysterion]

That's one hell of a post.

 

Is the timebomb ticking again.... ?

[Juan Jose Carricondo Perez]

As much as I want to believe the above, not completely true.

 

I know fact that one pension fund has 0.5m in rangers.

[tartofmidlothian]

All very interesting in Kevinref's post above, but surely the money spent by fans must be going to use somewhere. How can they be running out of money again? Are even the wages of Black, Sandaza, Shiels etc unsustainable?

[Hagar the Horrible]

I have been saying this for the last 6 months Ticketus have not gone away they will be tied up in all of this, they handed out ?25m to get ?50m worth of season ticket money, it would have been easier for them to buy out Whyte instead of green with a failed CVA as poer green and then own the whole club and then asset strip them and get all their money back with a tidy profit.

 

What does not happen in this universe or any other is loosing ?25m, you just don't hand it over without getting some sort of security!!! and they have beed remarkable quiet for a company that has just been cheated out of so much money

[The Gasman]

Interesting that there's speculation they may not produce their first set of audited accounts until August 2014.

 

To be able to get a European Club Licence (necessary to play in Champion's League or Europa League) they need to have three years of audited accounts. It's already one full year since Der Hun went into administration, and it appears that the "three year clock" hasn't even started ticking yet. No European football for Rangers until 2017 or 2018 certainly won't help their balance sheet.

Edited February 5, 2013 by The Gasman

[davieholt]

Interesting that there's speculation they may not produce their first set of audited accounts until August 2014.

 

To be able to get a European Club Licence (necessary to play in Champion's League or Europa League) they need to have three years of audited accounts. It's already one full year since Der Hun went into administration, and it appears that the "three year clock" hasn't even started ticking yet. No European football for Rangers until 2017 or 2018 certainly won't help their balance sheet.

 

Is it not possible for Sevco to produce accounts even though the parent (RIFC) doesn't ?

[The Gasman]

 

Is it not possible for Sevco to produce accounts even though the parent (RIFC) doesn't ?

 

I don't know, to be honest.

[foghorn5]

Thanks guy for all the replies about "Cheating" saved me a bit of time.

When dead RFC are categorically cleared of all wrong doing and have been paid astronomical amounts of dosh in slander compensation and reimbursed for all the titles, cups and Europe that they will have missed out on, then I will hand on heart say sorry for calling them CHEATS.

[Dunks]

I don't get the Ticketus thing. In the end, they were a creditor to ZombieCo, so why would they have a stake in Sevco?

[jamboinglasgow]

I don't get the Ticketus thing. In the end, they were a creditor to ZombieCo, so why would they have a stake in Sevco?

 

If they felt they could get most of their money back they could back the zombieco, they cut a deal with Green to let him take ownership without any hassle from them in exchange for a way that Rangers/Green pay them back the money owed.

[Dunks]

Interesting stuff JiG. Is this just a theory or is the deal genuine?

Be quite funny if Ticketus got screwed twice!

[DETTY29]

Anyone listen to Sportsound last night.

 

In response to a SevConian moaning about Rangers being chucked out - Doncaster and Spiers both concluded and assured all that in the event of Administration clubs can stay in, but in liquidation, new companies must be voted in. whether it be SPL or SFL.

 

Up pops our ex SFA CEO, Smudger Smith. 'Chucked out then' his response. No and reiterated liquidated rangers lost theor share per the rules, NewCo needed to apply for the transfer which was democratically declined.

 

'Clearly chucked out' again responds Smudger.

 

If we think Regan and Doncaster are er, bad, god knows where we would be if Smith was in charge.

 

Withdrawing Scotland and Scottish clubs from international football until SevCo are allowed to retain their place at the top table, deby free, without any form of agreed CVA no doubt.

[Jammy T]

As much as I want to believe the above, not completely true.

 

I know fact that one pension fund has 0.5m in rangers.

 

Well whoever made that decision in that pension fund should be sacked

 

Ignore the hum coming from the company in question. No pension fund should have shares in a scottish football team as part of its "investment"

[Fozzyonthefence]

Anyone listen to Sportsound last night.

 

In response to a SevConian moaning about Rangers being chucked out - Doncaster and Spiers both concluded and assured all that in the event of Administration clubs can stay in, but in liquidation, new companies must be voted in. whether it be SPL or SFL.

 

Up pops our ex SFA CEO, Smudger Smith. 'Chucked out then' his response. No and reiterated liquidated rangers lost theor share per the rules, NewCo needed to apply for the transfer which was democratically declined.

 

'Clearly chucked out' again responds Smudger.

 

If we think Regan and Doncaster are er, bad, god knows where we would be if Smith was in charge.

 

Withdrawing Scotland and Scottish clubs from international football until SevCo are allowed to retain their place at the top table, deby free, without any form of agreed CVA no doubt.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how utterly clueless all Sevconians appear to be. You would think that with such a huge fan base at least some of them would have some sort of grasp of basic insolvency practices.

[Juan Jose Carricondo Perez]

Well whoever made that decision in that pension fund should be sacked

 

Ignore the hum coming from the company in question. No pension fund should have shares in a scottish football team as part of its "investment"

 

Taking who there are out of the equation for a second they are up 17% on lauch price. Not a bad return.

However, I do agree that any football team is a risky investment. I'd be very interested to read some of the marketing material that used. Cenkos must have been very persuasive!

[Footballfirst]

From Alex Thomson's Blog

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/revealed-rangers-windingup-petition/4020

 

Revealed: Rangers winding-up petition

 

 

After some days of often feverish online speculation, I am now able to clarify the situation regarding the winding-up order which may soon be served against the Rangers Newco over a contract for services prior to the recent share offer.

 

Orlit Enterprises, based in Singapore, is seeking to petition the Scottish Court for a winding-up order against Rangers. Sources close to this legal action have spoken exclusively to Channel 4 News today.

 

This claim arises from the club?s alleged failure to pay two of the four invoices issued by Orlit. The outstanding sum is ?400,000.

 

The source has clarified to Channel 4 News that Orlit Enterprises was contracted to source and introduce the investors who provided seed capital in order to acquire the club from the administrator and to secure the June 2012 payroll.

 

Orlit did not participate in either the pre-IPO equity fundraising or the IPO itself.

 

My sources indicated to me that there has been no satisfactory answer from the club as to its non-payment despite several requests. In the circumstances, the application for a winding-up order of the Rangers Football Club Limited ? being the trading company obliged to pay the debt . Sources close to Orlit say they now have no other option than to embark upon winding up proceedings.

 

We are seeking comment on this from Rangers. Of course they may well have very sound reasons and defence for not paying.

 

This all sounds dramatic stuff and it may possibly play that way. But one should remember that winding-up petitions are often used as a method of extracting payment from companies.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Footballfirst

[2NaFish]

Can i add another GIRUY Rangers to a thread already burgeoning with them. Thomo making the huns squirm again.

[...a bit disco]

'Now we are a debt-free business there is every opportunity for the club to be run efficiently, effectively and successfully.'

Charles Green 13/10/12

 

 

Edited February 6, 2013 by ...a bit disco

[tartofmidlothian]

From Alex Thomson's Blog

http://blogs.channel...p-petition/4020

 

Revealed: Rangers winding-up petition

 

 

After some days of often feverish online speculation, I am now able to clarify the situation regarding the winding-up order which may soon be served against the Rangers Newco over a contract for services prior to the recent share offer.

 

Orlit Enterprises, based in Singapore, is seeking to petition the Scottish Court for a winding-up order against Rangers. Sources close to this legal action have spoken exclusively to Channel 4 News today.

 

This claim arises from the club?s alleged failure to pay two of the four invoices issued by Orlit. The outstanding sum is ?400,000.

 

The source has clarified to Channel 4 News that Orlit Enterprises was contracted to source and introduce the investors who provided seed capital in order to acquire the club from the administrator and to secure the June 2012 payroll.

 

Orlit did not participate in either the pre-IPO equity fundraising or the IPO itself.

 

My sources indicated to me that there has been no satisfactory answer from the club as to its non-payment despite several requests. In the circumstances, the application for a winding-up order of the Rangers Football Club Limited ? being the trading company obliged to pay the debt . Sources close to Orlit say they now have no other option than to embark upon winding up proceedings.

 

We are seeking comment on this from Rangers. Of course they may well have very sound reasons and defence for not paying.

 

This all sounds dramatic stuff and it may possibly play that way. But one should remember that winding-up petitions are often used as a method of extracting payment from companies.

 

Is it too early for a ?

Edited February 6, 2013 by tartofmidlothian

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Taking who there are out of the equation for a second they are up 17% on lauch price. Not a bad return.

However, I do agree that any football team is a risky investment. I'd be very interested to read some of the marketing material that used. Cenkos must have been very persuasive!

 

If this was a pension fund I was a member of I'd be getting the trustees removed pronto.

 

Yes the shares are up on issue price but I'll bet a lot of money they never see these heights again and that by the end of this year at the latest they trade below the flotation price.

 

Regarding the earlier piece from the Celtic supporter about the amount of money raised... while some of the story around dinners etc seems fanciful (or possibly made up) it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that the institutional investors who IMO were mainly interested in RFC shares as 'stuffers' for the coming seasons VCT offerings made highly conditional 'investments' i.e. their share purchases were made with loan notes that only have real value if they get their full quota of VCTs sold in the next few months.

[The Gasman]

We've faced (numerous) winding up orders ourselves, and (so far!) always managed to avoid it actually happening, so Sally may not have to look out the black tie quite yet.

 

Saying that though, ?400,000 is a considerable chunk of money (again, as we're only too well aware!) and there are continual rumours that Rangers are struggling for cash. The application for the winding up order may also make other Rangers creditors nervous, and more likely to play hardball over any outstanding, or overdue, debts.

 

Interesting times.

[Mysterion]

Rangers 2 Est 2012 upholding the traditions of DeadRangers by not paying debts!

 

Looking forward to more Rangers meltdown. Please just die...

[Juan Jose Carricondo Perez]

Rangers 2 Est 2012 upholding the traditions of DeadRangers by not paying debts!

 

Looking forward to more Rangers meltdown. Please just die...

 

But but but, I thought they were back, the same club, all the history but debt free and going to win 4 trophies this year?????

[269miles]

Taking who there are out of the equation for a second they are up 17% on lauch price. Not a bad return.

However, I do agree that any football team is a risky investment. I'd be very interested to read some of the marketing material that used. Cenkos must have been very persuasive!

 

New Shiny Rangers had an IPO which was undersubscribed - as I understand it (at least with the expected uptake by their supporters).

So how does an initial offering that wasn't fully taken up rise in value by 17% if the shares weren't wanted in the first place. ?

 

Anybody know how these markets work and can explain. It all seems a bit strange to me.

[true-jambo]

 

Jelavic money

 

Sorry if this has been discussed earlier on this thread, but I have struggled to open it at various times during the past couple of weeks or so.

 

We have been discussing in the pub recently, about what or rather who received the outstanding amount due from Everton (presumably to Oldco)in respect of the final instalment for his transfer. I think the remaining money was due around December/January time.

 

I should be grateful if anyone, who may have any information, could post it here for me.

[jambovambo]

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Good old Tomo, steaming in again.

 

Scottish football legend.

[The Mighty Thor]

Marvellous news.

 

It's almost like Thomo is stalking the hun.

 

[ritchies75]

RFC statement: "With regard to stories circulating about Rangers and Orlit, the sums sought are insignificant and agreement has been reached.subject to the necessary paperwork. Rangers Football Club is capable of meeting any debts presented legitimately and we would like to stress to our supporters there is no threat to the Club whatsoever. The matter is unworthy of further comment."

[The Gasman]

RFC statement: "With regard to stories circulating about Rangers and Orlit, the sums sought are insignificant and agreement has been reached.subject to the necessary paperwork. Rangers Football Club is capable of meeting any debts presented legitimately and we would like to stress to our supporters there is no threat to the Club whatsoever. The matter is unworthy of further comment."

 

....so there !

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Sally's warchest!

[The Comedian]

They are losing money each month according to Mark Guidi who was asked on Superscoreboard.