WorldChampions1902 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 That piece by Speirs- why so hysterical?Spiers is trying to reinvent his (early) Oldco reporting. Simply a case of 'Mutton dressed as succulent lamb". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Compared to ENRON's last accounts they are superb, compared to a properly run business they are absolute shit. They can only trade because of directors guarantees re future loans.Quite. However, having directors guarantees to ensure a going concern isn't exactly unique in Scottish football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 http://rangers.co.uk/news/club/club-statement-55/ 'For the avoidance of doubt, rangers have not lost the case' Okay then. Is there any sports franchise out there with bigger brass ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Given the shambles that they were last year I don't think their accounts were that bad. ?7.5m in debt and eye watering operating costs dont see any cost cutting at all its basically just a mirror image of the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 http://rangers.co.uk/news/club/club-statement-55/ 'For the avoidance of doubt, rangers have not lost the case' Okay then. Words fail me regarding that lots level of delusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Rangers statement is as expected. It's nothing to do with us. We are a new sorry different, sorry no, we are the same club with no connection to the old, sorry, same club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainy Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Love it. We're a new club when it suits us. Pathetic club why dont they just die.... again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 The Daily Record ?@Daily_Record 37m37 minutes ago Rangers hit out at EBT speculation and insist there's no threat to club or it's history. Good to see that the Record managed to get the apostrophe in the right place ...... "it is" indeed history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biffa Bacon Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 The Daily Record ?@Daily_Record 37m37 minutes ago Rangers hit out at EBT speculation and insist there's no threat to club or it's history. Good to see that the Record managed to get the apostrophe in the right place ...... "it is" indeed history They mean their history from 2012..... No threat indeed...... Unless another liquidation should occur.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Spiers has his tuppence worth,please don't strip us. poll 90% say yes,strip them of their titles. http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13944277.Spiers_on_Sport__The_truth_hurts__but_not_as_much_as_the_damage_done/ A club that historically afforded itself a sense of dignity . Stop right there Mr Spiers. What utter horseshit. Didn't sign a catholic until the 1980's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 A wee message from Cloughie for the cheats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Stop right there Mr Spiers. What utter horseshit. Didn't sign a catholic until the 1980's Catholics who signed for Rangers before Johnston include, before the end of World War I: Pat Lafferty (1886), Tom Dunbar (1891?1892), J Tutty (1899?1900), Archie Kyle (1904?1908), Willie Kivlichan (1906?1907), Colin Mainds (1906?1907), Tom Murray (1907?1908), William Brown (1912), Joe Donnachie (circa.1914?1918) and John Jackson (1917). Thereafter, Catholic players prior to Mo Johnston's signing include: Laurie Blyth (1951?1952), Don Kitchenbrand (1955?1956), Hugh O'Neill (1976), John Spencer (1985?1992) (Bill Murray, The Old Firm ? Sectarianism, Sport and Society in Scotland (John Donald Publishers, 1984) pp 64?5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Exactly this. Since the arrival of Souness and the big spending of the mid 80s, the huns have been living out with their means and have cheated their way to one financially doped title after another. The rest of Scottish fitba very nearly went bust tying to keep up with this illegally funded monster. The Orc hordes enjoyed many seasons of success until the bubble burst, they are the beneficiaries of the scheme as much as any player. To paint them as victims is laughable. Hopefully today's verdict reopens the question of all of their trophies won while evading taxes. And also, should the sale out of liquidation come into question, as it appears it might, today's verdict might lead to justice for the creditors in the shape of a proper asset sale. Ibrox sold to property developers, the five way agreement deemed illegal, the Huns gone for good. Now - that would be justice, which along with truth and sporting integrity is all that decent football fans have wanted from the beginning. Great post. Celtic were about 45 minutes away from going to the wall. We got pretty close. A handful weren't so lucky. Aberdeen splashed out six figures on an average midfielder in an attempt to maintain competitiveness that had been lost. Romanov, even by his own mad standards, may not have felt the need to fill our squad with over-valued dross if Rangers weren't 'at it'. Murray's hubris has almost destroyed our national game - it'll be a grand day when we have it back and he is remembered as the crooked charlatan we know he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Rangers statement is as expected. It's nothing to do with us. We are a new sorry different, sorry no, we are the same club with no connection to the old, sorry, same club. "Hoo sez like?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Catholics who signed for Rangers before Johnston include, before the end of World War I: Pat Lafferty (1886), Tom Dunbar (1891?1892), J Tutty (1899?1900), Archie Kyle (1904?1908), Willie Kivlichan (1906?1907), Colin Mainds (1906?1907), Tom Murray (1907?1908), William Brown (1912), Joe Donnachie (circa.1914?1918) and John Jackson (1917). Thereafter, Catholic players prior to Mo Johnston's signing include: Laurie Blyth (1951?1952), Don Kitchenbrand (1955?1956), Hugh O'Neill (1976), John Spencer (1985?1992) (Bill Murray, The Old Firm ? Sectarianism, Sport and Society in Scotland (John Donald Publishers, 1984) pp 64?5 ok so a still a much lower percentage than you would expect if they were just signing players based on ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) ok so a still a much lower percentage than you would expect if they were just signing players based on ability Very true, its a very very small amount from when they were founded up until the Mo Johnston affair. I think though why many people reckon MJ was the first was because he was so high profile and had been a Celtic player. I remember at the time it was major news and caused so much controversy, more so as well because i think 24 hrs before he signed he'd said he was resigning for Celtic. Just found this : "I didn't want to leave Celtic [in 1987] and I don't intend to now," said Johnston on 12 May. "There was some rubbish about me wanting to join Manchester United but it never entered my head to play for any other club. In fact, there is no other British club I could play for apart from Celtic." He said that on the very day he signed for Rangers Edited November 4, 2015 by Rudi-Mental Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) http://rangers.co.uk/news/club/club-statement-55/ 'For the avoidance of doubt, rangers have not lost the case' Okay then. Well get the 5 stars off of your jerseys then boys... You have the sum total of three trophies in your cabinet since inception in 2012. Edited November 4, 2015 by Spellczech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Very true, its a very very small amount from when they were founded up until the Mo Johnston affair. I think though why many people reckon MJ was the first was because he was so high profile and had been a Celtic player. I remember at the time it was major news and caused so much controversy, more so as well because i think 24 hrs before he signed he'd said he was resigning for Celtic. Not just "said" - paraded in the Celtic shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 http://rangers.co.uk/news/club/club-statement-55/ 'For the avoidance of doubt, rangers have not lost the case' Okay then. Please please please HMRC just come in and do them as a Phoenix club/company/entity/celestial being/intergalactic time traveller (*delete as necessary) and just kill that vile institution off once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambali Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Catholics who signed for Rangers before Johnston include, before the end of World War I: Pat Lafferty (1886), Tom Dunbar (1891?1892), J Tutty (1899?1900), Archie Kyle (1904?1908), Willie Kivlichan (1906?1907), Colin Mainds (1906?1907), Tom Murray (1907?1908), William Brown (1912), Joe Donnachie (circa.1914?1918) and John Jackson (1917). Thereafter, Catholic players prior to Mo Johnston's signing include: Laurie Blyth (1951?1952), Don Kitchenbrand (1955?1956), Hugh O'Neill (1976), John Spencer (1985?1992) (Bill Murray, The Old Firm ? Sectarianism, Sport and Society in Scotland (John Donald Publishers, 1984) pp 64?5 Gerry Dawson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehibsareintheirbeds Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/rangers-winning-titles-cheating-taxman/10032 An issue Newcomer should be worried about is if fraud is proved in a court of law regarding the sale of Oldco assets these will be returned to the liquidator (BDO) factor in you have a creditor with clout (HMRC) looking for maximum return. Is King willing or able to match land and scrap value to buy these assets which will no longer be theirs. A wee clue as to where the 6 figure monthly payments go for Ibrox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquis Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I see the Huns have really got to BBC Scotland - on radio news they just reported that it was Murray International that paid the EBTs! It's a new one on me that another company was paying Rangers players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Please please please HMRC just come in and do them as a Phoenix club/company/entity/celestial being/intergalactic time traveller (*delete as necessary) and just kill that vile institution off once and for all. this in spades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 BBC news saying that sevco need the extra external funding as early as next month!! Lolol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Well get the 5 stars off of your jerseys then boys... You have the sum total of three trophies in your cabinet since inception in 2012. I only make it two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I only make it two. OP maybe prematurely anticipating a Petrofac cup win at the 4th attempt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) I only make it two.ah Hell , fair correction. At least you're not stripping them of one of their titles. That doesn't go down too well... Edited November 4, 2015 by Spellczech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foghorn5 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Stopping the history of the original Rangers dead in their tracks at the last full stop in the liquidation process, and calling newco out for only having 2 titles would suit me fine. Not to fussed about old titles being allocated to a cheating club as long as that club is dead, burnt and ashes spread to the wind. Lance Armstrong = cheat (doping) Ben Johnson = cheat (doping) Rangers = cheat (financial doping) ? If the new club were to subsequently die I'd be OK with that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 This blog is good : https://www.theoffshoregame.net/rangers-lose-the-big-tax-case-what-now/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 It will be interesting to see where this goes with regards to claims of unfair sporting advantage. Clearly the Scottish footballing authorities would prefer not to revisit that particular issue. But the basis for the LNS ruling that Rangers had not benefited from an unfair advantage was predicated on the belief that EBT schemes were perfectly legal and therefore available to any other club which wished to adopt them. Today's ruling surely renders the LNS ruling invalid. Rangers gained an advantage by illegal means. This surely merits a new enquiry by the footballing authorities - I'd give the gig to LNS as he's clearly very familiar with the circumstances, so would only need to reconsider whether, in the light of today's developments, he would amend his original conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Ah, I see. Now that it has finally been established that the use of EBTs was not legal, allowable and is of questionable sporting fairness... the latest policy of defence is now to deny any involvement in it's use. It wasn't them. It was somebody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarryJ-o-s Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 This blog is good : https://www.theoffshoregame.net/rangers-lose-the-big-tax-case-what-now/ Good article and makes valid points about revisiting the LNS decision which, up until then, I didn't think could be revisited given my interpretations of the original wording of his findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 SSN tonight - 1 Sevco has no money but it's all gonna be OK. Importantly , it's not GASL fault. 2, "strange words" to avoid oldco/newco debate - have been hammered by HMRC (not important enough to figure on their moving strap line) 3 Kenny Millar & team mates with some sick kids (yes, a worthy cause). Well at least it ended on a warm fuzzy. Even Sky are kissing their arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Good article and makes valid points about revisiting the LNS decision which, up until then, I didn't think could be revisited given my interpretations of the original wording of his findings.The problem is that it would involve the authorities reopening LNS. That is not going to happen given that the whole point of LNS was to sweep as much as possible under the carpet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Where's the SPFL statement on this significant change in the legality of EBTs? Megan and Doncaster missing in action as usual! Campbell Ogilvie still at the helm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Where's the SPFL statement on this significant change in the legality of EBTs? I'm not aware that there has been a change in the "legality" of EBT'S. It's the way some companies ran them that's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williejamiesonlesftfoot Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 .Ohhh mince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 The problem is that it would involve the authorities reopening LNS. That is not going to happen given that the whole point of LNS was to sweep as much as possible under the carpet. Correct not a chance in hell is the LNS report getting reopened. The only way would be massive fan pressure and i dont see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Maybe HMRC should approach the EBT'd players and say "repay the EBT, or the club('s history) gets it". I.e. Title stripping etc ... then we'd see just what PRM they were ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 "Vindication" ... http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/13944509._Vindication___Rangers_Tax_Case_blog_s_response_in_a_Twitterstorm_after_taxman_wins/?ref=mr&lp=7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Is HMRC still fighting this case just so they can legally continue their policy of pursuing mis-users of EBTs for lost tax revenue or do they have any chance of actually getting any money from Oldco, Sevco or any individuals involved? What I want to know really is can this hurt Sevco in any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Maybe HMRC should approach the EBT'd players and say "repay the EBT, or the club('s history) gets it". I.e. Title stripping etc ... then we'd see just what PRM they were ... They can try but there's nothing to stop those players saying "yeah, I'm paying it back in 30 years, thanks for calling" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Is HMRC still fighting this case just so they can legally continue their policy of pursuing mis-users of EBTs for lost tax revenue or do they have any chance of actually getting any money from Oldco, Sevco or any individuals involved? What I want to know really is can this hurt Sevco in any way? At others have said, the difference in this case is a drop in the ocean, it's the precedent that's vital to HMRC. They'll be going after clubs in England next now that this is established Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Is HMRC still fighting this case just so they can legally continue their policy of pursuing mis-users of EBTs for lost tax revenue or do they have any chance of actually getting any money from Oldco, Sevco or any individuals involved? What I want to know really is can this hurt Sevco in any way? There's no risk to Sevco. All it means is that HMRC will claim a bigger share of the dead Rangers liquidation funds. More importantly to them, precedent has been established, meaning that they can go after bigger fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 There's no risk to Sevco. All it means is that HMRC will claim a bigger share of the dead Rangers liquidation funds. More importantly to them, precedent has been established, meaning that they can go after bigger fish. it also means that HMRC will pursue the correct price for the assets more vigorously than others. depending on the outcome of green and white case, sevco could find themselves stripped of their assets and if the SPLF/SFA done the decent thing and opened up the case for cheating, they could be stripped of titles. all in all, not a great outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 it also means that HMRC will pursue the correct price for the assets more vigorously than others. depending on the outcome of green and white case, sevco could find themselves stripped of their assets and if the SPLF/SFA done the decent thing and opened up the case for cheating, they could be stripped of titles. all in all, not a great outcome. It's possible but I wouldn't hold your breath irrespective of the Green and Whyte cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 There's no risk to Sevco. All it means is that HMRC will claim a bigger share of the dead Rangers liquidation funds. More importantly to them, precedent has been established, meaning that they can go after bigger fish. I think you are wrong Geoff HMRC now are owed the tax by the individuals- they are incredibly clear on this matter Tax affairs are the responsibility of the individual involved, NOT the employer. I was wrongly tax coded by an employer for 6 months - it was me who was hammered. My accountant screwed uo something else- I had to pay it back There is nothing absolves you of responsibility for your tax affairs Hence why the Jimmy Cars etc have to fork out- not their advisers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 There's no risk to Sevco. All it means is that HMRC will claim a bigger share of the dead Rangers liquidation funds. More importantly to them, precedent has been established, meaning that they can go after bigger fish. I wouldn't say that Geoff. If the sale of the assets for ?5M to Sevco is found to be fraudulent, surely it would be void and the assets go to the highest bidder? This would ensure a bigger pot for the creditors of the old club which means more money for HMRC and possibly a new landlord for Sevco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 At others have said, the difference in this case is a drop in the ocean, it's the precedent that's vital to HMRC. They'll be going after clubs in England next now that this is established There's no risk to Sevco. All it means is that HMRC will claim a bigger share of the dead Rangers liquidation funds. More importantly to them, precedent has been established, meaning that they can go after bigger fish. Thanks guys. That makes more sense to me now. Doctor Jambo, are you saying that ex-players and coaches who benefited from EBT's could now be pursued for back dates income tax payments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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