The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Gorgie_Rules]

For those of us that are out the loop, does today's news (both the accounts and HMRC) have any bearing on them going forward? i.e. are they more likely to go bust again?

[Diadora Van Basten]

Hmrc have won there appeal. [emoji23]

https://goo.gl/tE77lm

Paragraph 13 sums it up:

 

if bonuses had not been paid, the employment would have been significantly less attractive. Any contrary argument seems an affront to common sense.

 

In my opinion from a footballing point of view, having a team winning titles by not paying ?70 odd million in PAYE and for the SFA to rule that no sporting advantage has been gained is also an affront to common sense.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Sandi

[CollyWolly]

I think its highly doubtful. Most of the players had indemnity letters confirming that the club would be liable for any future tax assessments.

I'd wager not worth the paper they were illegally written on. You cannot legally accept the transfer of someone elses tax liability and take it on yourself.

 

Its like saying, this is totally dodgy but we'll pay it if we get caught, or more properly if YOU get caught along with us, evading tax.

 

If my company gets my PAYE tax code wrong, or I know or suspect its wrong and don't do anything to correct it, ultimately I am liable for the shortfall.

Edited November 4, 2015 by CollyWolly

[Footballfirst]

alex thomson ?@alextomo 7m7 minutes ago

HMRC - our view is that EBT tax avoidance doesn't work. We have recovered ?1.3 billion on tax owed from more than 1500 such schemes.

[Drumelzier]

Pleasing as they now can't really blame anyone other than the man/men at the top of the marble staircase for their own demise.

[Footballfirst]

The full decision is now available here

 

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=8213f5a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

 

 

Conclusion
[92]      For the foregoing reasons we will accordingly allow HMRC?s appeal on the first ground advanced by them.  On that basis we will answer the fourth question in the appeal in the affirmative, and hold that the First-tier Tribunal erred in allowing the original appeal and that the Upper Tribunal erred in refusing the appeal before it.  The other questions in the appeal do not therefore arise.  The assessments to PAYE have been correctly made, for the reasons already discussed.  On that basis we will recall the orders of the First-tier and Upper Tribunals and affirm the determinations appealed against, including that relating to PAYE, with the exception of the determinations and decisions concerning Sir David Murray in relation to the Bel Azur property transaction, which is conceded by HMRC.  We will reserve the question of expenses in view of the history of the appeals.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Footballfirst

[The Comedian]

Surely Kings fit and proper person result needs looked at?

 

He was on the board at the confirmed cheats then.

[Rudolf]

Paragraph 13 sums it up:

 

if bonuses had not been paid, the employment would have been significantly less attractive. Any contrary argument seems an affront to common sense.

 

In my opinion from a footballing point of view, having a team winning titles by not paying ?70 odd million in PAYE and for the SFA to rule that no sporting advantage has been gained is also an affront to common sense.

At least they're consistent with their nonsensical decisions. Dave King passing the 'fit and proper' test being another cracker.

[jambovambo]

 

alex thomson ?@alextomo 7m7 minutes ago

HMRC - our view is that EBT tax avoidance doesn't work. We have recovered ?1.3 billion on tax owed from more than 1500 such schemes.

Hope they go for the Mone woman too.

[Diadora Van Basten]

?8.75M between MASH, King and the 3 Bears.

 

There are always other creditors waiting to be paid but there is nothing out of the ordinary there that I can see.

I noticed that the ?2.25 million loaned by the 3 Bears and ?1.5 million loaned by King is shown as Current (repayable within a year) whilst the ?5 million from MASH is shown as non Current (repayable after a year).

 

For such a successful businessman to not have a repayment date on his loan seems to be a school boy error. The conditions of the loan have already been breached by King. 

[vintage1874]

Without a doubt.  They will get around two thirds of the ?18M in the creditors pot, and now they have the precedent they require to pursue other football clubs and companies who used EBTs.

Edited November 4, 2015 by vintage1874

[Rudolf's Mate]

I'd wager not worth the paper they were illegally written on. You cannot legally accept the transfer of someone elses tax liability and take it on yourself.

 

Its like saying, this is totally dodgy but we'll pay it if we get caught, or more properly if YOU get caught along with us, evading tax.

 

If my company gets my PAYE tax code wrong, or I know or suspect its wrong and don't do anything to correct it, ultimately I am liable for the shortfall.

 

Exactly this. Bottom line is oldco has no funds and the players directly benefited from the money so they'll go after them. Only thing which that paper would be good for would be to maybe exonerate them from criminal charges.

[Jambof3tornado]

Can HMRC claim costs involved in getting this far?

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Went to bed last night at 11 (4 your time) just got on here and saw that there was 2 new pages added of posts.

Unbelievable scenes.

[GarryJ-o-s]

I'd wager not worth the paper they were illegally written on. You cannot legally accept the transfer of someone elses tax liability and take it on yourself.

 

Its like saying, this is totally dodgy but we'll pay it if we get caught, or more properly if YOU get caught along with us, evading tax.

 

If my company gets my PAYE tax code wrong, or I know or suspect its wrong and don't do anything to correct it, ultimately I am liable for the shortfall.

Can anyone confirm that this statement suggests that the courts today decided that the liability fell on the employers rather than the individual players to ensure tax was correctly paid? Therefore, the individual players can not be got at by HMRC?

 

"Furthermore, those payments were made at the time of payment to the trustee of the Principal Trust, with the result that the obligation to deduct tax under the PAYE system fell on the employer who made such a payment.?"

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Not a whole lot since they are in liquidation. It merely earmarks more of what is recovered for HMRC coffers rather than other creditors.

 

However there is a possible impact on the recipients of the EBT's IMO.Their historical earnings have now been established as being taxable. Whether they knew that or not and despite what they thought they were signing up for, that tax liability surely still exists and if it cant be recovered from the liquidated company surely HMRC can go to the direct beneficiaries (the players) and recover it from them ?

 

There is also a far more wide ranging impact on some of the big clubs in England who were also operating EBT's and they will now be shiting themselves.

 

I wonder who was paying on behalf of Oldco to defend this case ?

 

Absolutely.  It is ultimately the employee's responsibility to ensure that income tax is being deducted and paid to HMRC correctly. 

 

I have personal knowledge of one old Rangers EBT recipient who was recently realising assets in order to have cash available for this eventuality. 

[Diadora Van Basten]

Went to bed last night at 11 (4 your time) just got on here and saw that there was 2 new pages added of posts.

Unbelievable scenes.

What is also unbelievable is the non reporting of this story by the MSM. 

[Drumelzier]

The full decision is now available here

 

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=8213f5a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

 

BBC saying that the Murray Group could appeal to the Supreme Court, I wonder if it's worth their while considering costs and what the net benefit to them would be.

[Walter Bishop]

Surely they have to be stripped of these titles now? 

[Boris]

Surely they have to be stripped of these titles now? 

 

Up to fans to pressurise the SPFL.  The authorities wont do it off their own backs!

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Surely they have to be stripped of these titles now?

Does that not give Hibs a League title win from back in the early nineties or something? I'm sure it was discussed previously.

[Footballfirst]

Paul Murray's comments in the DR in 2012 seem somewhat risable now

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-could-owed-tens-millions-1449760

 

 

FORMER Ibrox director Paul Murray last night called for a full-scale probe into the phantom tax bill that shut Rangers down.

 

And he claimed the club could be owed tens of millions of pounds in damages.

 

Murray spoke exclusively to Record Sport yesterday following the news on Tuesday that the crisis-ravaged Ibrox outfit has won the Big  Tax Case after a two-year legal battle over a potential ?80m penalty for the use of EBTs.

 

And the man who twice tried and failed to save his club from the clutches of Craig Whyte is now demanding answers as to why Rangers were placed in such a perilous position for so long by the authorities.

 

Former Deutsche Bank high-flyer Murray believes it is now the duty of the club?s liquidators, BDO, to forensically examine the events surrounding the Rangers scandal.

 

And he believes they may well discover grounds on which lawyers could claw back in excess of ?50m in lost revenue and damages.

 

Murray said: ?What we are dealing with here is the destruction of a 140-year-old Scottish institution. That in itself warrants an investigation of some sort

 

?The fact that the circumstances surrounding this case remain very complex and unclear further leads to a need for answers as to how and why it was allowed to happen.

 

?Currently the legal custodians of ?oldco? are BDO. So I am calling on them, on behalf of all the stakeholders in Rangers ? the shareholders, the fans, the creditors and even the players ? to launch an urgent inquiry into how it reached this stage.

 

?As the custodians, they are morally and legally obliged to get to the bottom of what went on. It is their responsibility to examine the chain of events that led to Rangers? demise and the actions of those people who were involved in it.

 

?On the back of that they can potentially pursue damages against any parties who have disadvantaged the club. We could be talking here, at a conservative estimate, of tens of millions of pounds. So I am calling on BDO to start that process as a matter of urgency.?

 

Murray believes the sums involved ? which ironically would be swallowed up by HMRC as oldco?s major creditor ? could be astronomical.

 

Any inquiry would be likely to include analysis of the actions of whole raft of bodies including the oldco's previous bankers, Bank of Scotland and Lloyds, Whyte, Ticketus, Collyer and Bristow, administrators Duff and Phelps, the SFA, SPL and the taxman.

 

He said: ?At a quick glance you can get an idea for the potential sums involved.

 

?First of all, the shareholders and in particular the Murray Group, potentially lost millions of pounds by selling the club to Craig Whyte for ?1. That deal was done on the basis of the tax liability which was hanging over the club. The value of the business was effectively wiped out because of fears about the result of the Big Tax Case.

 

?We are talking about some very big numbers.?

[The Old Tolbooth]

Does that not give Hibs a League title win from back in the early nineties or something? I'm sure it was discussed previously.

Eek, let them keep their tainted titles in that case

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Walter Bishop]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1331979-rangers-await-panel-verdict-on-outstanding-lord-nimmo-smith-ebt-fine/

[Hector Riva]

Thanks to the Daily Record for this.

 

 

  

WHO GOT WHAT

 

Alan Hutton ?364,000 . Made debut in 2002 and played 94 games, before ?9million move to Spurs.

 

Alex McLeish ?1.7million . Managed Rangers from 2001-06.

 

Alex Rae ?569,000 . Midfielder arrived at Ibrox in 2004 and spent two years there. Played 34 games.

 

Andrei Kanchelskis ?145,000 . Russian winger arrived from Fiorentina in 1998 for ?5.5million.

 

Andrew Dickson ?33,000 . Head of football administration since 2003. Previously financial controller at Ibrox.

 

Arthur Numan ?510,000 . Dutch full-back arrived at Rangers from PSV Eindhoven in 1998 for ?4.5million. Played 118 times.

 

Barry FergusonBarry Ferguson  

Barry Ferguson ?2.5million . Former youth player who became Rangers captain. Played at Ibrox from 1996-2003 and 2005-09.

 

Bert Konterman ?300,000 . Dutch defender signed by Dick Advocaat for ?4.5million in 2000.

 

Bert Van Lingen ?65,000 . Assistant manager under Dick Advocaat from 1998 to 2002.

 

Billy Dodds ?190,000 . Arrived in a ?1.5million deal from Dundee United in 1999.

 

Bob Malcolm ?125,000. Central defender started his career with Rangers in 1997. Played 88 games. Left for Derby County in 2006.

 

Carlos Cuellar ?448,255 . Spanish centre-half arrived from Osasuna in ?2.37million deal in 2007. Moved to Aston Villa in 2008.

 

Chris Burke ?55,000 . Started career at Rangers, playing 96 games from 2002 to 2009. Left for Cardiff City.

 

Christian Nerlinger ?1.8million . German midfielder signed from Borrusia Dortmund in 2001 and left in 2004.

 

Claudio Caniggia ?1million . Argentinian signed from Dundee for ?1million in 2001.

 

Craig Moore ?1.1million . Australian centre-half played more than 90 games from 1994-98. Returned in 1999 and stayed until 2005.

 

Dado Prso ?1.9million . Croatian striker was free transfer in 2004. Left for Dinamo Zagreb in 2007.

 

Dan Eggen ?68,000 . Norwegian central defender signed in 2003 from Spanish club Alaves.

 

Sir David Murray ?6.3million . Owned club from 1988-2011. They won 15 titles and 26 cups. Sold shares to Craig Whyte for ?1.

 

Dick AdvocaatDick Advocaat  

Dick Advocaat ?1.5million . Rangers manager from 1998-2002. Spent almost ?74million to win five trophies, including two titles.

 

Douglas Odam ?119,000 . Finance director for 15 years. Left in 2003 to take up a role within 

Sir David Murray?s business empire.

 

Egil Ostenstad ?370,000 . Norwegian forward signed from Blackburn on free transfer in 2003.

 

Fernando Ricksen ?684,225 . Dutch right-back signed in 2000 from AZ Alkmaar for ?3.75million.

 

Federico Nieto ?24,500 . Argentine striker joined on loan deal in 2005 from Almagro. Scored once in three matches.

 

Gavin Rae ?376,000 . Midfielder signed from Dundee in 2004 for a fee of ?250,000. Moved to Cardiff in 2007.

 

George Adams ?30,000 . Ex-player was head of youth development between 2003-05.

 

Graeme Souness ?30,000 . Player-manager from 1986-91.

 

Gregory Vignal ?173,000 . French defender joined on loan from Liverpool in 2004. Moved to Portsmouth in 2005.

 

Ian McGuinness ?25,400 . Club doctor sacked after Paul Le Guen left.

 

Ian Murray ?95,000 . Midfielder was free transfer from Hibernian in 2006. Left in 2007.

 

Jan Wouters ?285,000 . Former Dutch midfielder joined as a coach under Dick Advocaat, then Alex McLeish. Left in 2006.

 

Jean-Alain Boumsong ?630,000 . French centre-half joined in 2004 on free transfer. Moved to for Newcastle for ?8million.

 

Do you know your EBTs from your HMRCs?  

Jerome Bonnissel ?48,000 . French left-back arrived in 2003 from Bordeaux.

 

Jesper Christiansen ?320,000 . Danish goalkeeper signed in 2000 as injury cover.

 

Joel Le Hir ?28,275 . Paul Le Guen-appointed physiotherapist from 2006 to 2007.

 

John Greig ?40,000 . Played for club from 1961-78. Managed Rangers from 1978 to 1983. Later became a director.

 

John McClelland ?225,000 . Appointed a director in 2000. Chairman from 2002 to 2004. Resigned last year.

 

Julien Rodriguez ?638,000 . French centre-half signed from Monaco in 2005 for ?1million. Left for Marseille in 2007.

 

Kevin Muscat ?1million . Australian defender joined from Wolves in 2002 on free transfer. Joined Millwall in 2003.

 

Kris Boyd ?215,000 . Signed from Kilmarnock in 2006 for ?500,000. Left in 2010.

 

Libor Sionko ?178,000 . Czech midfielder signed from Austria Vienna in 2006. Played 18 matches before signing Copenhagen in 2007.

 

Lorenzo Amoruso ?639,000 . Italian defender signed from Fiorentina for ?4million in 1997. Moved to Blackburn Rovers for ?1.4million in 2003.

 

Martin Bain ?249,000 . Chief executive of Rangers from 2005 to 2011. Resigned after Murray sold club to Whyte.

 

Marvin Andrews ?316,025 . Centre-half from Trinidad and Tobago joined from Livingston in 2004.

 

Maurice Ross ?120,000 . Played 78 games for Rangers from 2000 to 2005, before moving to Sheffield Wednesday.

 

Michael Ball ?1.4million . Left-back signed from Everton in 2001 for ?6.5million. Moved to PSV Eindhoven in 2005.

 

Michael Mols ?260,000 . Dutch striker joined Rangers under Dick Advocaat. He arrived in 1999 and spent five years at Ibrox.

 

Mikel Arteta ?674,603 . Spanish midfielder joined in 2002 and played 50 matches, scoring 12 goals. Moved to Everton.

 

Nacho Novo ?1.2million. Spanish striker joined in 2004 from Dundee for ?450,000.

 

Neil McCann ?500,000 . Winger joined from Hearts in 1998 for ?2million.

 

Nuno Capucho ?970,000 . Portuguese winger who arrived in 2003 for ?700,000.

 

Olivier Bernard ?224,000 . French defender arrived on a free transfer in 2005.

 

Paolo Vanoli ?592,000 . Italian left-back joined from Bologna in 2003 and played in 28 matches.

 

Tore Andre FloTore Andre Flo was given ?1.3m from the EBT cheme  

Paul Le Guen ?201,250 . French manager replaced Alex McLeish in 2006. Left in January 2007 after a string of poor results.

 

Pedro Mendes ?1million . Portuguese midfielder joined in 2008 for ?3million. Joined Vituria Guimares in 2010.

 

Peter Lovenkrands ?902,000 . Danish winger arrived in 2000 from Akademisk Boldklub for ?1.3million.

 

Ronald De Boer ?1.2million . Dutch midfielder joined in 2000 under Advocaat.

 

Ronald Waterreus ?510,000 . Dutch goalkeeper joined Rangers in 2004 from Manchester City.

 

Sasa Papac ?319,000 . Bosnian left-back arrived in 2006 from Austria Vienna for ?450,000.

 

Sotirios Kyrgiakos ?532,200 . Greek centre-half signed from Panathinaikos in 2005.

 

Stefan Klos ?2million . German international keeper signed in 1999 for ?800,000. Join Bayer Leverkusen in 2007.

 

Stephane Wiertelak ?28,275 . French fitness-physiotherapy coach joined Rangers in 2006 under Le Guen.

 

Steven Davis ?600,000 . Northern Ireland midfielder. Left for Southampton in the summer.

 

Steven Smith ?7500 . Defender came through youth ranks and made debut in 2004.

 

Steven Thompson ?485,000 . Joined from Dundee United in 2003 for ?200,000. Went to Cardiff City in 2006.

 

Tero Penttila ?140,000 . Finnish defender joined in 1999 for ?300,000 from Haka Valkeakoski. Left in 2002 to join HJK Helsinki.

 

Thomas Buffel ?1.2million. Belgian midfielder joined in 2005 for ?2.3million from Feyenoord.

 

Tore Andre Flo ?1.3million . Norwegian striker joined from Chelsea in 2000 for ?12million. Sold for ?6.75million to Sunderland in 2002.

 

Yves Colleau ?106,200 . Former French midfielder served as assistant to Le Guen at Rennes, Lyon and Rangers from 2006 to 2007.

 

Zurab Khizanishvili ?405,000 . Georgian defender joined on a free transfer from Dundee in 2003. Moved to Blackburn Rovers in 2005.

[/quot

 

No Mcoist?

[Feeno]

Does that not give Hibs a League title win from back in the early nineties or something? I'm sure it was discussed previously.

  Bet the shameless ***** would organise an open top bus parade if it did.

 

Thankfuly I think the whole dodgy period is from 98(ish) onwards

[Glamorgan Jambo]

The letters of indemnity between the players and Rangers are individual contracts between them and their previous employer.

 

I doubt they are relevant to HMRC should they choose to go looking for the balance not collected from the Rangers liquidation pool.

[Walter Bishop]

Would we be credited with a Scottish cup and League cup win if titles were stripped?    

[The Gasman]

Will any money hmrc get out of all of this even cover their costs?

At the time it was estimated that some 3,000 businesses were using EBT's to "reward" their employees, so creating a precedent was always HMRC's priority here - not specifically to get money from OldCo.

 

I was told way back that many of these 3,000 businesses were financial companies based in the City of London, and that the amounts involved would dwarf anything even any Premier Club or Player may have used an EBT for.

 

That was apparently always HMRC's end game, Rangers were just a means to that end.

[colinmaroon]

BBC saying that the Murray Group could appeal to the Supreme Court, I wonder if it's worth their while considering costs and what the net benefit to them would be.

 

Is Murray not on Legal Aid now?

[Balders]

Bet the shameless ***** would organise an open top bus parade if it did.

 

Thankfuly I think the whole dodgy period is from 98(ish) onwards

Hibs have not finished in the top 2 since the seventies so not sure how they can claim anything

[Eddie]

k

[GarryJ-o-s]

Does that not give Hibs a League title win from back in the early nineties or something? I'm sure it was discussed previously.

 

I'd find it unlikely. They've not finished in the top two since the mid-70s, with third-places in 1995, 2001 and 2005.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Pleasing that Hector finally won.

 

Irrelevant to the future of Sevco unless oldco benefit from fraud convictions from Chuck Green, the founding father.

 

   

[Seymour M Hersh]

Up to fans to pressurise the SPFL.  The authorities wont do it off their own backs!

 

You have to think the sellik mob will be over that like flies on shite.

[DETTY29]

In my view the LNS decision on no sporting advantage should be revisited (I very much doubt that it will though). LNS' view was formed on the basis of EBTs being a legal form of remuneration which was thus available to any other club. LNS also failed to consider the "wee tax case" which was illegal. Thus there was no sanction against the club on that charge.

 

Bryson's Law effectively diminished the non disclosure of the side letters with their contracts as an administrative error, hence the players were still eligible to play. The club was still found guilty and fined ?250,000, which is still outstanding, altough according to the accounts a tribunal was held on 29/30 October. The result has not been announced.

STV reporting due soon, if not today.

 

I think Rangers are arguing fine due to SPL which is no longer in existence.

 

If SFA rule in favour of SPFL, SPFL rules seek fines from prize money.

 

Something I disagree with. If fines need to wait till prize money, other sanctions should be incurred. E.g registration ban.

[Fort Vallance]

Hibs have not finished in the top 2 since the seventies so not sure how they can claim anything

Maybe they nearly did though. That would be enough.

[Alva-Jambo]

 Just a few of my own thoughts, not all will be correct of course

 

Those letters letting players off tax, seem to me like letters of comfort.  I am sure they can be challenged, more so now. 

 

2: MA is no fool, but investing 5 million in shares of any AIM company seems foolish. AIM is a cowboy exchange as I have experienced.  I doubt he will see his money again.

 

3:  Rangers  ( oldco)/  Rangers  Newco.  I can see 50,000 seething Celtic fans demanding that Old co lose some of their trophies, they  would be the beneficiaries.

WHile th SFA would usually do anything for " rangers"  this might prove too much even for Dung,    

[berrasbraw]

?8.75M between MASH, King and the 3 Bears.

 

There are always other creditors waiting to be paid but there is nothing out of the ordinary there that I can see.

So does that include the losses they made over last few years aswell?. I've saw quotes at over ?20mill.

[Sidsnot]

What is also unbelievable is the non reporting of this story by the MSM.

 

Do you honestly believe they'd ever do such a thing as print the truth/facts,not a cats chance in hell they will.

[The Don]

BBC News Flash. Rangers have lost the "Big tax case" at Court of appeal

 

Sent from my SM-A500FU using Tapatalk

[flecktimus]

BBC saying that the Murray Group could appeal to the Supreme Court, I wonder if it's worth their while considering costs and what the net benefit to them would be.

 

 

 

Grant Russell ?@STVGrant  23 mins23 minutes ago

Interesting point of note from Big Tax Case verdict. Murray's four companies didn't oppose the appeal. Only BDO, for Rangers oldco, did.

[Pans Jambo]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/1331979-rangers-await-panel-verdict-on-outstanding-lord-nimmo-smith-ebt-fine/

so minimum is find ?2.5Million just to keep things ticking along and then lose ?400K at the end of the season. ?2.9Million as well as the green legal fees etc etc 

 

Beautiful.

[The Don]

Wonder what sanctions they could be hit with now they have been found guilty of cheating.

 

No 51 league titles that's for sure. No longer the most successful club as they like to call themselves. Everything won since David Murray took them over will now be classed as having won by illegally gaining a sporting advantage. Ram that up yer shiters sevco.

 

Sent from my SM-A500FU using Tapatalk

Edited November 4, 2015 by Rudi-Mental

[Brick Tamland]

Looking forward to hearing from Brice and triggers broom....

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Wonder what sanctions they could be hit with now they have been found guilty of cheating.

 

No 51 league titles that's for sure. No longer the most successful club as they like to call themselves. Everything won since David Murray took them over will now be classed as having won by illegally gaining a sporting advantage. Ram that up yer shiters sevco.

 

Sent from my SM-A500FU using Tapatalk

 

Did Lord Nimmo already rule previously that the dodgy payments which Rangers had been found guilty of were not "football related" or something like that?  I am not sure that today's ruling will change much from a footballing point of view unfortunately.

[Unknown user]

Re the tax letters, now that the EBT money has been established as earnings and therefore taxable, surely the employees have to be asked to pay tax now.

 

Income tax, whether deducted by the employer or not, is a percentage of the employee's earnings. Money was paid but tax was not deducted from it - they should be pursued imo

[Sidsnot]

Rangers

Name Profile Amount Side letter evidence seen by BBC? Name Profile Amount Side letter evidence seen by BBC?

Alan Hutton Hutton made his debut in 2002 and featured in 94 angers games, before a ?9m move to Spurs. ?364,000 No Alex McLeish McLeish managed Rangers from 2001-06. He won seven major honours at the club. ?1.7m Yes

Alex Rae Midfielder who arrived at Ibrox in 2004 and spent two years there. He played 34 games and scored once. ?569,000 Yes Andrei Kanchelskis Russian winger arrived from Fiorentina in 1998 for ?5.5m. Moved four years later to Southampton. ?145,000 No

Andrew Dickson Head of football administration at Rangers since 2003. Previously financial controller at Ibrox club. ?33,000 No Arthur Numan Dutch full-back arrived at Rangers from PSV Eindhoven in 1998 for ?4.5m. Played 118 times. ?510,000 Yes

Barry Ferguson Former youth player who became Rangers captain. Played at Ibrox from 1996-2003 and 2005-2009. ?2.5m Yes Bert Konterman Dutch defender signed by Dick Advocaat for ?4.5m in 2000. Played 79 matches for Rangers. ?300,000 No

Bert Van Lingen Bert Van Lingen was Rangers assistant manager under Dick Advocaat from 1998 to 2002. ?65,000 No Billy Dodds Scotland international arrived in a ?1.5m deal from Dundee United. Scored 21 goals in four years. ?190,000 No

Bob Malcolm Central defender started his career with Rangers in 1997. Played 88 games. Left for Derby County in 2006. ?125,000 No Campbell Ogilvie At club from 1978 to 2005 as general secretary and later a director. Now president of the SFA. ?95,000 No

Carlos Cuellar Spanish centre-half arrived from Osasuna in deal worth ?2.37m in 2007. Moved to Aston Villa in 2008. ?448,255 Yes Chris Burke Started career at Rangers, playing 96 games from 2002-2009. Left for Cardiff City. Now with Birmingham City. ?55,000 No

Christian Nerlinger German midfielder signed from Borrusia Dortmund in 2001 and left in 2004. Now has role at Bayern Munich. ?1.8m Yes Claudio Caniggia Argentinian World Cup finalist signed from Dundee for ?1m in 2001. He played 50 times for Rangers. ?1m No

Craig Moore Australian centre-half played more than 90 games from 1994-1998. Returned in 1999 and stayed until 2005. ?1.1m Yes Dado Prso Croatian striker was free transfer in 2004. Scored 50 goals in 108 games. ?1.9m Yes

Dan Eggen Norwegian central defender signed in 2003 from Spanish club Alaves. Did not appear for the first team. ?68,000 Yes Sir David MurrayOwned club Ownership period from 1988-2011 saw club win 15 titles and 26 cups. Sold shares to Craig Whyte for ?1. ?6.3m No

Dick Advocaat Rangers manager from 1998-2002. Spent almost ?74m to win five trophies, including two titles. ?1.5m No Douglas Odam Finance director for 15 years. Left club in 2003 to take up a role within Sir David Murray's business empire. ?119,000 No

Egil Ostenstad Norwegian forward signed from Blackburn on free transfer in 2003. Played only 11 matches for the Ibrox club .?370,000 Yes Fernando Ricksen Dutch right-back signed in 2000 from AZ Alkmaar for ?3.75m. Scored 13 times in 182 games. Left in 2006. ?684,225 Yes

Federico Nieto Argentinian striker joined on loan deal in 2005 from Almagro. Scored once in three matches played. ?24,500 No Gavin Rae Midfielder joined Rangers from Dundee in 2004 for a fee of ?250,000. Transferred to Cardiff in 2007. ?376,000 Yes

George Adams Ex-player was head of youth development between 2003-2005. Now director of football at Ross County. ?30,000 No Graeme Souness Player/manager of Rangers from 1986-1991. Went on to manage Liverpool, Newcastle and Blackburn. ?30,000 No

Gregory Vignal French defender joined on loan from Liverpool in 2004 and played 43 times. Joined Portsmouth in 2005. ?173,000 Yes Ian McGuinness Ibrox club doctor was sacked after Paul Le Guen left. Moved on to Newcastle United and then joined Aston Villa. ?25,400 Yes

Ian Murray Midfielder was free transfer from Hibernian in 2006. Played 43 games. Joined Norwich City in 2007. ?95,000 No Jan Wouters Former Dutch midfielder joined as a coach under Dick Advocaat, then Alex McLeish. Left in 2006. ?285,000 Yes

Jean-Alain Boumsong French centre-half joined in 2004 on free transfer. Signed for Newcastle in ?8m deal after just 18 games. ?630,000 Yes Jerome Bonnissel French left-back who arrived in 2003 from Bordeaux. Played three games before joining Fulham. ?48,000 Yes

Jesper Christiansen Danish goalkeeper signed in 2000 as injury cover.Played just three times for Rangers and left in 2004. ?320,000 No Joel Le Hir Paul Le Guen appointed physiotherapist from 2006-2007. Now with Le Guen at Oman national team. ?28,275 Yes

John Greig Played for club from 1961-1978. Went on to manage Rangers from 1978-83. Later became a director. ?40,000 No John McClelland Appointed a director in 2000. Was chairman from 2002-2004. Resigned as non-executive director last year. ?225,000 No

Julien Rodriguez French centre-half signed from Monaco in 2005 for ?1m. Played 34 matches then left for Marseille in 2007. ?638,000 Yes Kevin Muscat Australian defender joined from Wolves in 2002 on free transfer. Played 22 games. Joined Millwall in 2003. ?1m Yes

Kris Boyd Signed from Kilmarnock in 2006 for ?500,000. Scored 101 goals. Joined Middlesbrough in 2010. ?215,000 Yes Libor Sionko Czech midfielder signed from Austria Vienna in 2006. Played 18 matches. Joined Copenhagen in 2007. ?178,000 Yes

Lorenzo Amoruso Italian defender cost ?4m from Fiorentina in 1997. Moved to Blackburn Rovers for ?1.4m in 2003. ?639,000 Yes Martin Bain Chief executive of Rangers from 2005-2011. Resigned after David Murray sold club to Craig Whyte for ?1. ?249,000 No

Marvin Andrews Centre-half from Trinidad and Tobago joined from Livingston in 2004. Played 43 matches, scoring four times. ?316,025 Yes Maurice Ross Played 78 games for Rangers from 2000-2005, scoring twice before moving to Sheffield Wednesday. ?120,000 No

Michael Ball English left-back signed from Everton in 2001 for ?6.5m. Played 55 games. Joined PSV Eindhoven in 2005. ?1.4m Yes Michael Mols Dutch striker joined Rangers under Dick Advocaat. He arrived in 1999 and spent five years at Ibrox. ?260,000 Yes

Mikel Arteta Spanish midfielder joined in 2002 and played 50 matches, scoring 12 goals. Moved to Everton. ?674,603 Yes Nacho Novo Spanish striker joined in 2004 from Dundee for ?450,000. Played 178 games in six years, scoring 47 times. ?1.2m Yes

Neil McCann Winger joined from Hearts in 1998 for ?2m and played over 100 games. Now a media pundit for Sky Sports. ?500,000 Yes Nuno Capucho Portugal winger who arrived in 2003 for ?700,000. Featured in 22 games, scoring five goals. ?970,000 No

Olivier Bernard French defender arrived on a free transfer in 2005 via Lyon and Newcastle. Played nine times. ?224,000 Yes Paolo Vanoli Italian left-back joined from Bologna in 2003 and played in 28 matches for Rangers, scoring once. ?592,000 Yes

Paul Le Guen French manager replaced Alex McLeish in 2006. Left in January 2007 after a string of poor results. ?201,250 Yes Pedro Mendes Portuguese midfielder joined in 2008 for ?3m. Played 39 games and joined Vit?ria Guimar?es in 2010. ?1m Yes

Peter Lovenkrands Danish winger arrived in 2000 from Akademisk Boldklub for ?1.3m. Played 129 games and scored 37 times. ?902,000 Yes Robert Reilly Robert Reilly was Rangers' commercial director and helped generate income for the Ibrox club. ?105,000 No

Ronald De Boer Dutch midfielder joined in 2000 under Dick Advocaat. Scored 39 goals in four years for the club. ?1.2m Yes Ronald Waterreus Dutch goalkeeper joined Rangers in 2004 from Manchester City. Played 49 matches for the Ibrox club. ?510,000 Yes

Sasa Papac Bosnian left-back arrived in 2006 from Austria Vienna for ?450,000. Played 161 games. Left in May 2012. ?319,000 Yes Sotirios Kyrgiakos Greek centre-half signed from Panathinaikos in 2005. Left in 2006. Played 54 matches and scored once. ?532,200 Yes

Stefan Klos German keeper signed in 1999 for ?800,000. Played over 200 times. Left in 2007. ?2m Yes Stephane Wiertelak French fitness/physiotherapy coach joined Rangers in 2006 under Paul Le Guen. Now works at Rennes. ?28,275 Yes

Steven Davis Northern Ireland midfielder and club captain. Played more than 140 times, scoring 17 goals for Rangers. ?600,000 Yes Steven Smith Defender came through youth ranks and made debut in 2004. Moved to Norwich then on to US side Portland Timbers. ?7,500 No

Steven Thompson Joined from Dundee Utd in 2003 for ?200,000. Left Rangers in 2006 to join Cardiff City. ?485,000 Yes Tero Penttila Finnish defender joined in 1999 for ?300,000 from Haka Valkeakoski. Left Rangers in 2002 to join HJK Helsinki. ?140,000 No

Thomas Buffel Belgian midfielder joined in 2005 for ?2.3m from Feyenoord. Scored 11 goals and left in 2008. ?1.2m Yes Tore Andre Flo Norwegian striker joined from Chelsea in 2000 for ?12m. Scored 39 times for Rangers. Sold for ?6.75m to Sunderland in 2002. ?1.3m No

Yves Colleau Former French midfielder served as assistant to Paul Le Guen at Rennes, Lyon and Rangers from 2006-2007. ?106,200 Yes Zurab Khizanishvili. Georgian defender joined on a free transfer from Dundee in 2003. Moved from Rangers to Blackburn Rovers in 2005. ?405,000 Yes

[Shanks]

Looking forward to hearing from Brice and triggers broom....

 

 

 

and also a Hearts fan that likes to defend rangers constantly on this thread

[The Don]

Did Lord Nimmo already rule previously that the dodgy payments which Rangers had been found guilty of were not "football related" or something like that? I am not sure that today's ruling will change much from a footballing point of view unfortunately.

Whatever Lord Nimmo ruled before is now void. Today's ruling is the verdict and overules any previous judgement. As the BBC news article also states. Financially this won't affect newco. However it could now open to sporting sanctions.

 

I said hundreds of pages back and was rubbished by people that HMRC were not letting go and had a very strong position. I stated the day HMRC lost the FTT that they would appeal and was correct then as well. A couple of people know how I knew and was so confident and I can't disclose. However I can also say HMRC are not finished.

 

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Edited November 4, 2015 by Rudi-Mental