The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[269miles]

So if the police are investigating the cash burn of ?70m does this indicate they are looking at the onerous contracts?

 

So who all hold onerous contracts?

 

So where is the line drawn where a deal become so good to be true that the police get involved?

I asked this same question of the experts on TSFM a while back.

There is no simple answer , onerous contracts aren't illegal (obviously) and the contracts for Rangers Retail , although onerous , don't really put the company at risk.

The bigger picture  might be how the club was purchased, how the finance was obtained (was there deception ?).

The police , I'm assuming are investigating anything brought to their attention by the BDO investigation which HMRC instigated ?

[Strachsuit]

I'm no Nostradamus but I'm going to have a wee prediction. The board will propose the share issue at the AGM in a fortnight and it won't hit the 75% of votes required to be approved. Very quickly (within days) Mike Ashley will put together another rescue package, this time to see them through to the end of the season - and the spivs will duly accept. It will then be revealed in the new year that MA's package includes several caveats and is in security for the Big Hoose. Cue the Orcs going wild and threatening even more boycotts, all the while leaving the Famous stroll to Championship glory.

 

Any takers?

[The Comedian]

I'm no Nostradamus but I'm going to have a wee prediction. The board will propose the share issue at the AGM in a fortnight and it won't hit the 75% of votes required to be approved. Very quickly (within days) Mike Ashley will put together another rescue package, this time to see them through to the end of the season - and the spivs will duly accept. It will then be revealed in the new year that MA's package includes several caveats and is in security for the Big Hoose. Cue the Orcs going wild and threatening even more boycotts, all the while leaving the Famous stroll to Championship glory.

 

Any takers?

No dice.

 

 

KB share issue, MA leaves them high and dry and gates padlocked by late January.

 

[I P Knightley]

The SFA should have told MA that he couldn't buy shares in the first place, but as per usual when it comes to Sevco their rules tend to become more flexible, and somehow everyone read the rules incorrectly. I'd suggest that MA won't bother about the 10% limit and will go over it at the next share sale. After all, why would he worry about the SFA? I'd suggest that the SFA will put it's tail between its legs and mumble something about 10% being just a guideline figure and actually MA can buy as many shares as he wants.

He doesn't need to. 

 

He's gained all the influence he could possibly want by offering them a secured loan. He got the guys removed from the board who might have got in the way; he's installed Llambias and, by having very deep pockets, he has anyone who could get in his way eating out the palm of his hand (SFA/SPFL included).

 

 

Ref Strachsuit's prediction: It seems remarkably unlikely that a share offer would be successful at this point. Given that the majority of shares are in very few hands, it wouldn't take much for them to find out the strength of support a share offer would have. It would, therefore, be reckless (possibly negligent) or incompetent of the board to put forward a proposal in the knowledge/expectation that it would fail. For that reason, I think it's quite likely

[Footballfirst]

The Charlie Telfer transfer tribunal is due to sit tomorrow. 

 

I wonder if the result will give some clarity re old club/new club argument, or there will be a last minute "out of court" settlement between the clubs to save face.

[brunoatemyhamster]

The Charlie Telfer transfer tribunal is due to sit tomorrow. 

 

I wonder if the result will give some clarity re old club/new club argument, or there will be a last minute "out of court" settlement between the clubs to save face.

The The Rangers wanted 200k ? United offered less than half that , then upped it to 100k ? Am i remembering this correctly? 

 

Neither amount really suits The The Rangers. Can United appeal the decision if they feel its too much ? 

Edited December 8, 2014 by brunoatemyhamster

[maroonlegions]

I doubt that MA gives a toss about the SFA wanting to talk to him about him not sticking to the terms laid down to enable him to invest. The SFA, by allowing him to buy shares in the first place, have as per usual been done up like a kipper. MA was not to have any influence at the Big Hoose - how's that working out SFA? He's only running the club now and ducking your pleas for a meeting and palming you off with his lawyers - would he treat the FA like that?

 

 

Corruption is dishonest actions that destroys people's trust in the person or group, like the news of corruption in how your bank is run, that makes you close your account and invest your money somewhere else.

[CMc]

How much do we spend compared to Rangers? I would say ours has been a failure as well..........hopefully CL is in the process of getting it sorted.

I would say our academy took a while to get going, but is doing very well at the moment. Whilst we may not have flooded the EPL yet, we've had a couple move to EPL clubs (one could still make it) and a team that is top of the championship with half the squad coming through the ranks. McGhee has been scouted by EPL clubs, Patterson has had a national call up and Holt has been scouted by a team who could end up getting promotion in the next couple of seasons. Big things have also been predicted for Nicholson. Those are just the nes with a chance of cutting it at the top level in England. If we can keep adding even one or two first teamers a year then it will be doing its job nicely.

[Charlie-Brown]

This unending farce defies prediction with fresh twists and turns every few days/weeks I've no doubt this will continue for the foreseeable future.

 

What I do know that what is unsustainable ultimately cannot and will not be sustained even if some Muppets were willing to spunk millions on the vanity project sooner or later they would burn thru even Dave Kings fabled ?30 million fantasy war chest.

 

One day possibly a lot sooner than they would like they will have to face the music (again) and cut their cloth to suit just as every unviable club / company has to do if they want to survive....their brewsters millions parry will be over if it isn't already.

[Alva-Jambo]

The SFA should have told MA that he couldn't buy shares in the first place, but as per usual when it comes to Sevco their rules tend to become more flexible, and somehow everyone read the rules incorrectly. I'd suggest that MA won't bother about the 10% limit and will go over it at the next share sale. After all, why would he worry about the SFA? I'd suggest that the SFA will put it's tail between its legs and mumble something about 10% being just a guideline figure and actually MA can buy as many shares as he wants.

This isn't the Banks .  The league clubs can see every stroke of trickyness at once.  They wont accept any clear infringements. Sooner a boycott by all the clubs. Ashley is stuffed by ten percent.

Aside, he was crazy to decide to go for Rangers. 

[Alva-Jambo]

R. Neilson take a bow.

lol brilliant from Robbie!  

[DETTY29]

In 2 weeks time RIFC will have held it's AGM and we will know if the resolution has been passed to increase the company shareholdings.

 

One of the folks I'll feel for will Ally McCoist.  He's just a simple football man concentrating on coaching hs team during the week and preparing his tactics and selections for the next game.

 

However, he still has sufficient shares that his vote at the AGM could be vital in whether or not the resolution is passed to look to increase the company shareholdings leading to the potential to raise external finance by way of a share issue.

 

If he votes YES, there could be some more penny shares coming his way.

 

Vote NO and the Big Hoose could be at serious risk.

 

The Rangers fans should demand to know which way he (or the East Kilbride RSC proxy) votes

Edited December 8, 2014 by DETTY29

[brownkg]

In 2 weeks time RIFC will have held it's AGM and we will know if the resolution has been passed to increase the company shareholdings.

 

One of the folks I'll feel for will Ally McCoist.  He's just a simple football man concentrating on coaching hs team during the week and preparing his tactics and selections for the next game.

 

However, he still has sufficient shares that his vote at the AGM could be vital in whether or not the resolution is passed to look to increase the company shareholdings leading to the potential to raise external finance by way of a share issue.

 

If he votes YES, there could be some more penny shares coming his way.

 

Vote NO and the Big Hoose could be at serious risk.

 

The Rangers fans should demand to know which way he (or the East Kilbride RSC proxy) votes

Eh no he is a dangerous shit stirrer with many examples of him inciting the more malevolent fans of his beloved club with his frequent comments. The only level he is a simple football man on is in his tactics viz his obviously coached efforts of them to injure Hearts players in the game against them.

[DETTY29]

Eh no he is a dangerous shit stirrer with many examples of him inciting the more malevolent fans of his beloved club with his frequent comments. The only level he is a simple football man on is in his tactics viz his obviously coached efforts of them to injure Hearts players in the game against them.

Sorry,

 

That line was tongue in cheek.

[Dalstonjambo]

Look who printed it..

It's a tweet from a parody account. It's already been covered in another thread

[DETTY29]

It's a tweet from a parody account. It's already been covered in another thread

And something the DR should have recognised too.

[RobNox]

All depends on how you define a 'club'. But there is another thread on this topic and I will wait and see what happens if or when it does!

I think rule E5 is pretty clear that whatever you define as a club, regardless of who now owns and operates them, they will be treated as the same club as far as points deduction is concerned, therefore The Rangers will lose 25 points if they suffer an insolvency event.

 

It doesn't matter much to us, as even a 15 point deduction would more or less guarantee we win the league.  But a 25 point deduction would make it more difficult for The Rangers to make the play offs.

[Fozzyonthefence]

Would it not be a 15 point deduction as this is their first Admin event?

 

I would hope it would be this, rather than 25 (either would guarantee us the league anyway but would rather win before they go tits up), which would mean an acceptance that they are indeed a new club!  Off with the 5 stars...

[Fozzyonthefence]

I think rule E5 is pretty clear that whatever you define as a club, regardless of who now owns and operates them, they will be treated as the same club as far as points deduction is concerned, therefore The Rangers will lose 25 points if they suffer an insolvency event.

 

It doesn't matter much to us, as even a 15 point deduction would more or less guarantee we win the league.  But a 25 point deduction would make it more difficult for The Rangers to make the play offs.

 

I don't know - what is the definition of a "Member"?  And remember, their SFA / League membership was not continuous as Sevco had to be given special dispensation to be allowed the newly invented Associate Membership to allow them too join even the bottom tier when they didn't meet SFA / SFL joining criteria.  They did not carry on Oldco's existing membership, as I recall, so on that basis it's difficult to argue they are the same club (and I know there are also other reasons why they can't) but we know what their stance is on this and the authorities will just do what they're told.

[RobNox]

The two main protagonists currently in the fore in this tragedy is King and Ashley, King is the preferred option for ra peepil, but If he passed the fit and proper person test it would make a mockery of the whole system, he is after all a CONVICTED tax fraudster.  Plus King has never yet put his money where his mouth is?  HE has this chance If the vote gets the go ahead for another share issue, surely he could afford the ?8m to underwrite it?  However that money would only repay the current debt and get them to the end of the season, leaving them with a ?12m shortfall in next season?

 

MA is an enigma inside a puzzle surrounded in mystery!  Who knows how he is playing this game that nobody so far understands the rules?  He chose not to underwrite the last issue but at the last minute decided to take up his allocation to near his allowed quota (as per FA/SFA rules).  If he decided not to, Rangers would have failed in the uptake and would have already been in Administration.   However he did and he also gave them enough money in conditional loans to get them to the AGM.  Loans they will struggle to pay back without somebody else gaining a further stranglehold?  MA actually does have ?Off the radar wealth? and is the only show in town go keep them viable?  But why?  Most of the onerous contracts they need to terminate are his, and it only looks like he is trying to protect these contracts.

 

So what now for Rangers? King comes in with his fictional millions, or MA has 3 decisions to make?

1. Plough ?1m per month, and say good bye to it?
2. Lend them money they will never be able to pay back?
3. Walk away and perhaps pick up the pieces post admin.

With King and MA the SFA has to decide which rules to break? The fit and proper person test or MA allowed to own 2 clubs?  One thing is for certain they won?t put their foot down and say NO????

 

MA is holding a good hand, but who knows what cards the Institutional investors have, They will vote on what is best for them not for MA and certainly not in the best interest of Rangers and their fans?

He didn't take up any allocation, he bought shares after the event from one of the institutional shareholders (Hargreaves Hale), thereby increasing his holding without giving any money to the club.

[RobNox]

How much do we spend compared to Rangers? I would say ours has been a failure as well..........hopefully CL is in the process of getting it sorted.

How could you claim our Academy is a failure, given the number of first team squad members who have come through that route?

[RobNox]

Sorry,

 

That line was tongue in cheek.

Woosh!

[RobNox]

And something the DR should have recognised too.

And probably did, but they do like to shit stir!

[RobNox]

I don't know - what is the definition of a "Member"?  And remember, their SFA / League membership was not continuous as Sevco had to be given special dispensation to be allowed the newly invented Associate Membership to allow them too join even the bottom tier when they didn't meet SFA / SFL joining criteria.  They did not carry on Oldco's existing membership, as I recall, so on that basis it's difficult to argue they are the same club (and I know there are also other reasons why they can't) but we know what their stance is on this and the authorities will just do what they're told.

Decent point, and the SFA articles seem to be riddled with caveats that allow them wriggle room.  But surely applying a 15 point deduction would be an acknowledgement that it's not the same club, therefore Rangers will be insisting on the full 25 points deduction to prove they are the same club.

[Charlie-Brown]

Rangers will be insisting they've already been punished enough and that penalising them is merely penalising Scottish fitba who desperately need them back in the top flight where they belong and winning.....you can almost here Ray Gun and Donkey Ass Ter pushing those arguments whilst using their discretionary powers to avoid punishing the Bears in accordance with their own rules and precedents.

[Francis Albert]

How much do we spend compared to Rangers? I would say ours has been a failure as well..........hopefully CL is in the process of getting it sorted.

I don't see the primary aim of the academy as developing players for the EPL but as developing players for HMFC. On that basis it's doing pretty well.

[buba]

deleted, posts were from ages ago.

Sorry catch up post

[iainmac]

Quite,

Strange that certain posters don't like the word "diet" or refuse to acknowledge the fact we (Hmfc) have a problem with bigots in our support. Most who were at the celtic game seen & heard the bile coming from a section of our support that day, 1 fan was even arrested for it

This is, of course, an undeniable truth.

 

I despise this element of our support - which is now a minority compared to the heady days of the '70s - but, come on! Referring to the Hearts support as "diets" will not win you many friends or influence people.

 

You're better than that - surely?

Edited December 9, 2014 by iainmac

[Mark_Mywords]

This is what will happen in my opinion if they suffer another insolvency event....

 

Sevco will have a points reduction of 15 points because this will be their 1st insolvency event since the new SPFL formed.  This will save them from admitting that they are indeed a new team.

 

[Hagar the Horrible]

Laxey Partners Ltd 16.32%

Artemis Investment Management LLP 9.95%

MASH Holdings Limited  8.92%

River and Mercantile Asset Management LLP  7.06%

Blue Pitch Holding  5.43%

Alexander Easdale  5.21%

Miton Group  4.98%

George Taylor  3.2%

Margarita Funds Holding Trust  3.19%

 

When you look at the institutional investors they only represent 64.23% of the overall votes?  MA has them by the shorties only because the loans and of course some of the onerous contracts.  Before him the Easedales had the power but only because of the secret people behind BPH and Margarita.  It will be interesting to see if they all stick together or not for the new shares resolution?  And can they get the other 11% to push it through?  Even if they do, they can only slice that particular pie so many times?  If it fails more will have to show their hands????  I also get the feeling the Easedales have wandered into the big boys playground and they are in a different game?  Their dinner money is at risk?..

[AndrewB]

Laxey Partners Ltd 16.32%

Artemis Investment Management LLP 9.95%

MASH Holdings Limited  8.92%

River and Mercantile Asset Management LLP  7.06%

Blue Pitch Holding  5.43%

Alexander Easdale  5.21%

Miton Group  4.98%

George Taylor  3.2%

Margarita Funds Holding Trust  3.19%

 

When you look at the institutional investors they only represent 64.23% of the overall votes?  MA has them by the shorties only because the loans and of course some of the onerous contracts.  Before him the Easedales had the power but only because of the secret people behind BPH and Margarita.  It will be interesting to see if they all stick together or not for the new shares resolution?  And can they get the other 11% to push it through?  Even if they do, they can only slice that particular pie so many times?  If it fails more will have to show their hands????  I also get the feeling the Easedales have wandered into the big boys playground and they are in a different game?  Their dinner money is at risk?..

I'd not had the pleasure of hearing Sandy Easdale speak until lately.  Dear, oh dear.  Thick as mince.

[DETTY29]

This is what will happen in my opinion if they suffer another insolvency event....

 

Sevco will have a points reduction of 15 points because this will be their 1st insolvency event since the new SPFL formed.  This will save them from admitting that they are indeed a new team.

 

If say for example they had closed the gap on us a little by the time we play each other again, or the did suffer an insolvency event, if I was them, I would challenge the deduction if it was 25 points.

 

Argue that no points can be deducted until such times as all football authorities and / or legal appeals have been exhausted.

[jambovambo]

I'd not had the pleasure of hearing Sandy Easdale speak until lately.  Dear, oh dear.  Thick as mince.

I refer you to my posted story re a dwarf in a gimp mask ...

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/106910-the-rangers-soap-opera-goes-on-and-on-see-admin-note-in-post-1/page-1062&do=findComment&comment=3884870

[DETTY29]

 

The red tops speculating on a possible transfer again..

Half that and on the never, never.

[menstrie1874]

Never played in the top tier, never had an international cap. Never played in a major cup final either. Good prospect but ?5-800k is a more realistic value imo.

Surely rangers will want one payment and this gives the buyer,if there is one, all the advantages

[moonraker]

Transfermarkt has him valued at ?308k...looks about right.

 

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/glasgow-rangers/startseite/verein/124

[Don Dan]

I'd be surprised if they ?1.5m for him can't imagine him going for anything over ?400k to be honest. Shows promise but he not yet proved himself.

[brunoatemyhamster]

If they've not had their fingers burned with Goodwillie , Id be surprised.

500k tops plus add ons. Premiership ,Scotland caps etc.

 

Or they could have it all upfront in Chicken Nuggets. That would test Ally's resolve.

[hawaii]

Is Gary Bowyer a friend of Ally's by any chance? Or more likely has Derek McGregor just made up a story? After all, if Blackburn were actually interested in McLeod I'm sure that they would have been scouting him and asking themselves why they should bother with a central midfielder who can't oust Law & Black from the team and is instead being played on the wing. Just what Blackburn need to push themsleves towards the playoffs right enough.

[Strachsuit]

He doesn't need to. 

 

He's gained all the influence he could possibly want by offering them a secured loan. He got the guys removed from the board who might have got in the way; he's installed Llambias and, by having very deep pockets, he has anyone who could get in his way eating out the palm of his hand (SFA/SPFL included).

 

 

Ref Strachsuit's prediction: It seems remarkably unlikely that a share offer would be successful at this point. Given that the majority of shares are in very few hands, it wouldn't take much for them to find out the strength of support a share offer would have. It would, therefore, be reckless (possibly negligent) or incompetent of the board to put forward a proposal in the knowledge/expectation that it would fail. For that reason, I think it's quite likely

 

Yup, it will be very easy to gauge opinion between the top shareholders but if they think it's close then they might have a stab at it. Also, as we've seen before, it may be a case of folk trying to save face. The Lying King's offers have all been mouth and no trousers but if the sh*t hits the fan then at least he can say "look, I tried"! I wouldn't be surprised if the Easdales and co say pretty much the same thing if the share issue fails.

[Cade]

Any prospective buyer will know that Sevco are in deep financial doo-doo and will buy their players on the cheap.

 

Karma after so many years of Rangers doing the same thing to every other Scottish club.

[pettigrewsstylist]

Well it should reveal MAs plans for the Company when the bid reaction is revealed

 

Cant see many negatives currently

[Tasavallan]

This is what will happen in my opinion if they suffer another insolvency event....

 

Sevco will have a points reduction of 15 points because this will be their 1st insolvency event since the new SPFL formed.  This will save them from admitting that they are indeed a new team.

 

If it is ANOTHER insolvency event then, in line with rule E5, it will be a 25 pts deduction.

 

The moot point here is whether this is the second or first insolvency event for the entity known as Newco.  Oldco was deducted 10 points by the SPL in February 2012.  The SPL as a body is no more.   It will for the SPFL to decide the punishment.  The intent of Rule E5 is to increase the severity of the deduction for the second offence and as such I believe the SPFL will apply the 25 pts deduction should Newco go into insolvency. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

The C. Telfer transfer tribunal has now finished at Hampden.. Dundee Utd have still to discover what they'll have to pay for the player though.

Will the money go to Newco?

[Ibrahim Tall]

I'm sure they'll pay ?1.5m, in the same way Liverpool "paid" ?5m for Danny Wilson...

[CJGJ]

If Pardew wants him he will end up at Newcastle United.

 

 

Lets face it there is a deal to be done with Ashley.. either a write off of part of the loan or an extension/increase of said loan.

 

If any other club gets him it will be because Newcastle are not interested.

[Armageddon]

If Pardew wants him he will end up at Newcastle United.

 

 

Lets face it there is a deal to be done with Ashley.. either a write off of part of the loan or an extension/increase of said loan.

 

If any other club gets him it will be because Newcastle are not interested.

 

He's not French though?

[CJGJ]

He's not French though?

Louis is not French ?  

[AndrewB]

Might be time for a change to the sub-heading of this thread.  "We will follow FoH" was something that looked likely only for a day or two a good while ago.

My recommendation would be "End Game Looms" or "The Desolation of the Orcs" or "Ashley Holds all the Cards."

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Very strange..

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/independent-tribunal-breaks-charlie-telfer-4775716

hmmm What is your thinking behind this?

 

Are they looking for any excuse to give Rangers money maybe?