Mikey1874 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) While I have refrained from commenting on the case, I am curious about references I have seen from other posters about Murray's metals business. How was it tied in to the Rangers entity of the time? Lloyds Bank seeking to rid itself of involvement in Scottish football and get at least some of its money back offered David Murray his Metals business back if he cleared the bank debt or sold Rangers to allow it to be cleared. All part of debt restructuring of Murray's business. Murray bought it back for ?1 Edit - Murray International Metals was where it all started for David Murray. His first love as it were. Edited June 5, 2017 by Mikey1874 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 While I have refrained from commenting on the case, I am curious about references I have seen from other posters about Murray's metals business. How was it tied in to the Rangers entity of the time? To put it in context, the whole of the Murray Group was effectively going through a managed insolvency process leading to its eventual liquidation at the behest of Lloyds. Lloyds wanted assets such as properties (and football clubs) sold off to raise funds, reduce indebtedness and exposure to further losses. The Metals business was SDM's first business venture in that area and he wanted Lloyds to give/sell it back to him and his family. Lloyds agreed that he could get control back if he first sold Rangers. SDM was therefore incentivised to sell Rangers no matter what. In the end SDM did get (part of) the Metals business back following the sale of RFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 To put it in context, the whole of the Murray Group was effectively going through a managed insolvency process leading to its eventual liquidation at the behest of Lloyds. Lloyds wanted assets such as properties (and football clubs) sold off to raise funds, reduce indebtedness and exposure to further losses. The Metals business was SDM's first business venture in that area and he wanted Lloyds to give/sell it back to him and his family. Lloyds agreed that he could get control back if he first sold Rangers. SDM was therefore incentivised to sell Rangers no matter what. In the end SDM did get (part of) the Metals business back following the sale of RFC. And that's why he sold it gave it way for ?1 to a guy whose old man he was well acquainted with. And who he knew full well was a con man rescuer of distressed businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 The Jury is out to consider its verdict - should return tomorrow according to Doleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ1984 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Whyte's the victim here. Biggest patsy of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 There were twitter reports at the weekend that Dave King had indicated that Alastair Johnston would be joining to the RIFC Board, when he was at the NARSA meeting in Las Vegas. Today, the Scottish Sun is running with the story, suggesting that an announcement will be made in the next week. I guess they will have been holding off until the conclusion of the CW trial, lest he should have been called as a witness and his previous decisions as RFC chairman held up to ridicule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftBack Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Not guilty on both counts Is my prediction I agree. If he is found guilty though - is there the right of appeal against verdict/sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altyjambo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I agree. If he is found guilty though - is there the right of appeal against verdict/sentence? Hope so. Can't sit through whole days at work without having Doleman's updates every few minutes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 2m2 minutes ago Breaking: Verdict about to come in in Craig Whyte case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ1984 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 13s13 seconds ago Breaking : Craig Whyte cleared of all charges at Glasgow High Court. More follows Edited June 6, 2017 by jambovambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ1984 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Not guilty you say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry hippo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Correct decision. He is dodgy as they come but it wasn't fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I think that's the correct verdict. Murray must've known damn fine what was going on. Duped, not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of The Cat Cafe Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 13s13 seconds ago Breaking : Craig Whyte cleared of all charges at Glasgow High Court. More follows Now that the case is over, can I be among the first 10,000 or so to say I knew from the very outset that would be the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Go on the govan one,wrong person in the dock Imo who made the money out of the sale they're the ones who should have been on trial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) Poor Craigy having to be dragged through all this nonsense. MAHAHAHA :lol: :lol: :lol: Edited June 6, 2017 by Poseidon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Now, where are those deeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 so will anything happen to David Murray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Seems like the first case Findlay has won for a while. What a waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 so will anything happen to David Murray?Unlikely I'd have thought, apart from more Rangers fans maybe turning on him. Not sure how many still defended his running of the club up til now though - I know a couple who were and we're playing the whyte fraud card as much as they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ1984 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Chance's of Craigy boy suing the crown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) I agree. If he is found guilty though - is there the right of appeal against verdict/sentence? Edited June 6, 2017 by 269miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Correct Decision IMO. I wonder who the orcs are going to blame now? Has to be Murray surely, enough came out in court to show that he left them high and dry with no cares of what the future held for them, all he wanted was to get rid of this yoke around his neck and get his metals business back and cared not a jot how he did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Chance's of Craigy boy suing the crown? I'd think he's going back to Monaco to check the title deeds. Either way , he got something for his troubles. He didn't go through this pain for nothing IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Rangers fans on Bears den blaming the fact there were no 'rangers minded folk' on the jury One or two now blaming Whyte but for the rest it's all part of the big conspiracy. Delightful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 'Jury full of fenians no doubt' says cushynumber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ1984 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I'd think he's going back to Monaco to check the title deeds. Either way , he got something for his troubles. He didn't go through this pain for nothing IMO. Definitely. I hope it's not the end we see of CW. Bears Den "Remember this is a guy who tried to flee to Mexico in disguise! Guilty!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 it's the next stage in the saga where the really dodgy dealing took place, Administration. This would be a court case worth watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) A huge waste of public money. Little doubt now who should be blamed for all of Rangers ills. I wonder if the majority of their support will have the IQ to work out who. Edited June 6, 2017 by Deevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 'I feel physically sick. The ******* who raped our club has just had his actions endorsed by the corrupt fenian judicial system' Nae luck Bighouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 They're also turning on 'judas' Findlay. Can taste the tears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboy1982 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Bearsden is a madhouse. Some totally brainwashed deranged nutters on there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/17364257 "Rangers 'duped' by Whyte, says Sir David Murray" 14/12/2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Mark Daly?Verified account @BBCMarkDaly 3m3 minutes ago NOT guilty. Craig Whyte walks free - so who else should shoulder responsiblity for Rangers' collapse? Tonight, BBC1, 6.30pm #whytetrial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Bearsden is a madhouse. Some totally brainwashed deranged nutters on there It's a horrific example of "humanity". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Not guilty you say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboy1982 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/17364257 "Rangers 'duped' by Whyte, says Sir David Murray" 14/12/2012 Pure lies from the good knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 and within minutes ... https://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/company-announcement/#.WTac_5UWz4M.twitter Johnston (back) on board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnking123 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Still nothing but crooks in charge. Club is an embarrassment to Scottish Football! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Hearts Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Wonder how the sycophantic succulent lamb media will report this outcome that David Murray/Fraser didn't care about the Huns and just wanted to get rid of the club (even if it meant it going to the wall) as long as he got control back of Murray Group. Where is Jim Traynor and Chuck Dung ? Silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 1m1 minute ago Now contempt orders lifted will be writing up a full analysis, including stories we couldn't tell you until now. #WhyteTrial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Did Whyte end up with any profit out of this entire saga? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdannyb Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 So the jury have decided that Murray was fully aware that Whyte had no money and was going to use Ticketus. Murray simply didn't want the responsibility of being the one who took Rangers into their inevitable liquidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Hearts Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/17364257 "Rangers 'duped' by Whyte, says Sir David Murray" 14/12/2012 So the outcome of the Whyte court case and this interview with the BBC in 2012 now proving that David Murray/Fraser was telling lies all along to the succulent lamb media and to the gullible Huns ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Jury out for an hour, was it? 20 minutes for tea and biscuits 10 minutes to agree on chairperson. 1 minute for chairperson to ask if anyone had a clear view on their understanding of the charges of the case 5 minutes for one guy / gal to articulate - The purchase price was a pound. - McCoist confirmed he was given ?5m in additional funds for the playing squad in year 1 - The ?1.7m for repairs were undertaken. - While technically not allowed to, Whyte discussed whether appeal possible re the WTC with HMRC - Rangers the business itself had built up bank debts of ?18m at time of takeover, so it is realistic the business itself should be expected to fund repayment of it. - Murray should have known about 3rd party funding and if not, his advisers should have told him that was what Whyte was doing - Murray appeared to have a pseudonym email of nom of David Fraser, where he was told about 3rd party funding - The SPA allowed the purchaser to ignore any of the conditions of the SPA. - The pound was paid by it being thrown across the table - Recommends a NOT GUILTY verdict. Chairperson and 9 other jurors nod heads in agreement but decision delayed by another 4 minutes as 4 of the jurors do a Red Hand of Ulster salute and start singing the sash. Chairperson reminds 4 jurors of guidance from judge re conflict of interest and jurors in contempt of court tend to be gaoled. Order resorted and 5 minutes taken as chair person goes round each juror to ask if they have decided on a verdict for each charge and notes each one. 15 minutes notice given for jury to return to court of chairperson to announce NOT GUILTY verdict on each count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) James Doleman? @jamesdoleman 1m1 minute ago Now contempt orders lifted will be writing up a full analysis, including stories we couldn't tell you until now. #WhyteTrial The biggest injustice was the failure of the Police and the COPFS. We had seven people on the original indictment and we ended up with one. Why was that? It was pure incompetence by the Police and the COPFS in gathering evidence and putting a case together. They had so much information in their hands but failed to put a coherent argument. Ahmad we know about, having done a runner to Pakistan to escape arrest. Green (notwithstanding the Sevco 5088/Scotland debacle) was judged to have acted reasonably as CEO. The price he paid was not unreasonable given the distressed assets and no licence to play football. The bonus 5m shares was not a unreasonable reward given that he raised ?22m in the IPO. Grier was deemed not to have had undue influence when he assisted Whyte as it was Whyte who ultimately took the decisions. D&P (Clark and Whitehouse) were deemed to have acted fairly and gained the best possible price for the assets. This was not helped by the COPFS not being able to show what a "true value" or "market value" for the assets should have been. All three of the D&P guys had privileged evidence removed for their offices illegally by Police Scotland and the City of London Police. They have already had a damages award of ?500k from the COLP and are currently pursuing PS in an action at the Court of Session ...... and perhaps the worst of all Gary Withey. He had taken legal advice in preparation for an action by the Oldco (BDO) against Collyer Bristow and prepared notes with his lawyer in defence of that action. However Police Scotland (the lead being DCI Robertson) visited his home and despite being told that a box of papers were Client/Lawyer confidential and therefore privileged, the papers were taken away and given to the COPFS. The COPFS, in their infinite wisdom, then decided to disclose these documents to the other defendants. It put Withey in the position of being open to arguments by the other defendants who may wish to blame him for what had happened. Lord Bannatyne was scathing of the Advocate Depute (James Keegan) as he described the papers as mapping out Withey's defence strategy, meaning that he could not get a fair trial and would have to be released. Keegan was amateur, at best, and tried to salvage some credibility as the cases against the other defendants was falling apart and issued a press release saying that Green and the D&P guys could be re-indicted on other charges. Again Lord Bannatyne and the D&P legal teams were not amused and asked the the Lord Advocate be summoned to court to explain why such a statement was issued. Needless to say Keegan was quickly removed from the Crown team. Edited June 6, 2017 by Footballfirst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Did Whyte end up with any profit out of this entire saga? Aye the money SDM paid him on the QT to be the Patsy. Scottish football rotten to the core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Well done Shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Where do The Rangers go from here? If CW had been hailed, the fans would've had their scapegoat , instead Sir David will probably become the fall guy he tried his best to avoid. Meanwhile Caxhino is signing a new team, some allegedly for ?1m , no doubt the wage bill will rocket as the gamble to progress in Europe and become the 2nd force domestically. Whilst I'd love to see Hearts make a marquee signing, I fully understand financial prudence and learning from previous mistakes. This thread will continue to rattle up the pages, some ITK'ers will predict the end is nigh for The Rangers while they continue oblivious to any doomsday . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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