john brownlee Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If it was classed as avoidance there would be no charge. Avoidance is legal; evasion is not. that is true but if the huns refuse to, or cant pay the due taxes they can then be prosecuted through the courts maybe I didn't make it clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 From today's Herald: http://www.heraldsco...l-club.16648763 Is it unthinkable that Rangers could cease to exist as a football club? The worst case scenario is a 10 points deduction. All the stuff about liquidation, 25 points and relegated to the lower leagues was garbage. Rangers have 8 SPL games to play before deciding if they want to take the 10 point deduction this season. They will see where they are in the league and make their decision then. If they are in front of the mhanks they will carry on regardless. If they are strolling 2nd with no chance of 1st they will take the punishment confident they will keep hold of their Champions League spot. Whyte has until the middle of April to get his books in so Rangers can play in Europe next year. Plenty time. He just has to keep his head down until then. That is the way it looks to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diadora Van Basten Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I can't see administration being an option given the level of debt incurred by Rangers. The creditors would have to accept x pence in the pound and it is very unlikely that either HMRC or other significant creditors would agree to such a situation. This would mean that the only available route is liquidation which would provide a much better return with which to pay creditors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beijingandrew Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The worst case scenario is a 10 points deduction. All the stuff about liquidation, 25 points and relegated to the lower leagues was garbage. Rangers have 8 SPL games to play before deciding if they want to take the 10 point deduction this season. They will see where they are in the league and make their decision then. If they are in front of the mhanks they will carry on regardless. If they are strolling 2nd with no chance of 1st they will take the punishment confident they will keep hold of their Champions League spot. Whyte has until the middle of April to get his books in so Rangers can play in Europe next year. Plenty time. He just has to keep his head down until then. That is the way it looks to me. So by your logic Rangers would easily be able to pay the 49m tax bill? If they lose and can't pay (which for the avoidance of doubt they DEFINITELY cannot) then liquidation won't be up to them. It's up to their creditors i.e HMRC.After liquidation then the company will cease to exist so will lose their registration in the league. NewCo Rangers would probably be admitted into the league but would have to start in the third division. It's not a question of relegation as that would not happen, the more likely situation is complete destruction and starting the club again from scratch (with no Ibrox or players or glory hunters). I am not convinced that they will lose the tax case but even if they don't their debt is too high and the threat of administration would be persistent and there would still be a significant chance of liquidation. Your level of optimism (or pessimism depending how you look at it) is in excess of the most deluded of Rangers fans and even Craig Whyte himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Michael Grant who wrote the Herald article seems to have little knowledge of administration. SO HOW IS THIS LIKELY TO UNFOLD? A club goes into administration either voluntarily or when creditors file a petition. Clubs first pay football-related debts (wages and fees to other clubs), then HMRC gets some of the money it is owed. Whyte may soon have to accept that he can no longer maintain Rangers as a going concern and pay the bills. WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE OF GOING INTO ADMINISTRATION? Going into administration amounts to a rescue package which nearly always allows a club or company to survive. A licensed insolvency practitioner, the administrator's intention is to maintain the club as a going concern. It would secure partial repayment for Rangers' creditors and should avoid the club going into complete liquidation and ceasing to exist. After the administration the club re-emerges with new directors and a refreshed balance sheet. But it is no easy fix: there would be job losses among the off-field staff and redundancies, too, for players. Let's clarify things for him. The Administrator takes charge of the club and would decide how to proceed based on the level of debts and the status of the various creditors. Craig Whyte would no longer be in control of events. Yes he will try to keep the club running as a "going concern", by reducing costs (releasing players) or trying to sell the business as is (unlikely with the debt liabilities, unless a CVA was achievable). If no-one will take on the liabilities then he will start to break up the company. The first to be paid would be himself (the adminitrator is always paid). Next are the secured creditors, i.e. Close Brothers, "Group" through their floating charge and possibly Ticketus, depending on how their deal is secured. Preferred creditors are next. Any unpaid (late) salaries due to players or staff fall into that category. That leaves Unsecured creditors as last in the queue. That will include HMRC for PAYE, NIC, VAT and the big tax case, Hearts re Wallace Transfer, Rapid Vienna re Jelavic transfer, The RFC Bond holders, ST holders if remaining fixtures will not be fulfilled, Joe the plumber etc. The adminsitrator will pay off the secured creditors by realising the secured assets. If there is any money left after satisfying the secured and preferred creditors, he will seek a CVA among the unsecured creditors. HMRC will attempt to block a CVA that doesn't get them everything they are due. They will probably hold enough debt to ensure that a CVA won't be agreed. The club will then be liquidated will all other assets sold off and a distribution made to the unsecured creditors. That's how I would expect an administration process to play out. A newco will be formed and will seek to come to an agreement with the new owners of Ibrox and Murray Park in putting a bid forward to be admitted back to the SPL. Note that CW could possibly invoke receivership rather than administration, which would look after his interests a little more favourably, but the final outcome is likely to be much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So by your logic Rangers would easily be able to pay the 49m tax bill? If they lose and can't pay (which for the avoidance of doubt they DEFINITELY cannot) then liquidation won't be up to them. It's up to their creditors i.e HMRC.After liquidation then the company will cease to exist so will lose their registration in the league. NewCo Rangers would probably be admitted into the league but would have to start in the third division. It's not a question of relegation as that would not happen, the more likely situation is complete destruction and starting the club again from scratch (with no Ibrox or players or glory hunters). I am not convinced that they will lose the tax case but even if they don't their debt is too high and the threat of administration would be persistent and there would still be a significant chance of liquidation. Your level of optimism (or pessimism depending how you look at it) is in excess of the most deluded of Rangers fans and even Craig Whyte himself. If they did go North Bristol then sudrdenly SPL reconstruction would be on the cards with invitation to the league being sent to the RFC newco, the other 11 current members and probably at least two larger teams from outwith the current top-flight... The Buns would be saved and Dungcaster would paint it as what's best for Scottish football and listening to the fans about an extended top-flight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beijingandrew Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If they did go North Bristol then sudrdenly SPL reconstruction would be on the cards with invitation to the league being sent to the RFC newco, the other 11 current members and probably at least two larger teams from outwith the current top-flight... The Buns would be saved and Dungcaster would paint it as what's best for Scottish football and listening to the fans about an extended top-flight... Perhaps, but a "NewCo" Rangers may be liable for any unfulfilled tax bill by the previous company. I posted a link to the HMRC manual about it earlier in this thread.They would have to go with something like "Govan FC" or "South Glasgow United" and Craig Whyte could probably not be involved if they want to escape the tax liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If they did go North Bristol then sudrdenly SPL reconstruction would be on the cards with invitation to the league being sent to the RFC newco, the other 11 current members and probably at least two larger teams from outwith the current top-flight... The Buns would be saved and Dungcaster would paint it as what's best for Scottish football and listening to the fans about an extended top-flight... That's awfy optimistic. I see it as they are too incompetent to do this type of thing. There are too many Old Firm sycophants who will screw up changes to voting rights/better distro of cash/league expansion. The only positive may be that the worst/most vocal of them (Ronnie MacDonald of Hamilton Accies) will not be part of any change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Perhaps, but a "NewCo" Rangers may be liable for any unfulfilled tax bill by the previous company. I posted a link to the HMRC manual about it earlier in this thread.They would have to go with something like "Govan FC" or "South Glasgow United" and Craig Whyte could probably not be involved if they want to escape the tax liability. Even if they got straight into the SPL, any Rangers NewCo would not be eligible for European competition for three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Even if they got straight into the SPL, any Rangers NewCo would not be eligible for European competition for three years. Yep, meaning less fans and less money... And repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo, Goodbye Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Even if they got straight into the SPL, any Rangers NewCo would not be eligible for European competition for three years. I missed this point, How would they not be eligible? A Rangers NewCo with no players, no Ibrox/Murray Park and no chance of Europe would be fricking sweet! We might even get Wallace back on a free transfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I missed this point, How would they not be eligible? A Rangers NewCo with no players, no Ibrox/Murray Park and no chance of Europe would be fricking sweet! We might even get Wallace back on a free transfer Clubs need to be in existence for at least 3 years before UEFA will grant them a licence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnybob72 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The one thing that seems to be clear in this is that Rangers success throughout the 90's was built on the back of tax evasion. I've not seen anything in the media to suggest that they 'cheated' their way to title after title which is basically what they have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The worst case scenario is a 10 points deduction. All the stuff about liquidation, 25 points and relegated to the lower leagues was garbage. Rangers have 8 SPL games to play before deciding if they want to take the 10 point deduction this season. They will see where they are in the league and make their decision then. If they are in front of the mhanks they will carry on regardless. If they are strolling 2nd with no chance of 1st they will take the punishment confident they will keep hold of their Champions League spot. Whyte has until the middle of April to get his books in so Rangers can play in Europe next year. Plenty time. He just has to keep his head down until then. That is the way it looks to me. You must remember, the Glasgow (Scottish) media are just beginning to pick up on this and their first knee jerk reaction is to paint as rosey a picture as they can. This is not a straight forward case of a club/business going into administration as there is at least one very powerfull entity after them should they lose the tax case and the distinct possibility of some very dodgey shenanigans going on. Also, should they lose the tax case, the SFA/SPL must consider the fact that they have cheated the whole of Scottish, and European, football as well as the tax man and should not get off with being treated like a club who've fallen on hard times by overspending while doing it honestly ie Gretna, Airdrie etc. Murray got Rangers into difficulty and dodginess, by selling them to a very dodgey asset stripper he has got them into an even dodgier position. The only thing that can keep Rangers in the SPL is the dodginess of Scottish football, so perhaps you are right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMc Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Can we repossess Lee Wallace? YOUR FULLBACK IS AT RISK IF YOU DO NOT KEEP UP PAYMENTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Can we repossess Lee Wallace? YOUR FULLBACK IS AT RISK IF YOU DO NOT KEEP UP PAYMENTS When is the next installment due? Be interesting to see what happens if they default on that. SPL inquiry? Threats of points deductions? More likely the SPL/SFA passing the hat round for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Tarts 1874 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 When is the next installment due? Be interesting to see what happens if they default on that. SPL inquiry? Threats of points deductions? More likely the SPL/SFA passing the hat round for them. To be honest I think by then Rangers will have been wound up by HMRC and a liquidator will be in place to sell Rangers' assets to pay their creditors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 When is the next installment due? Be interesting to see what happens if they default on that. SPL inquiry? Threats of points deductions? More likely the SPL/SFA passing the hat round for them. July, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Can we repossess Lee Wallace? YOUR FULLBACK IS AT RISK IF YOU DO NOT KEEP UP PAYMENTS Surely if you have failed to make payments for a player from a club who have financial difficulties, Hearts inability to pay wages, you are contributing to their financial woes, and should be subjected to charges the same as Hearts were. If the situation was reversed would inaction also be considered appropriate in that case. What a tangled web we weave... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnybob72 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Surely if you have failed to make payments for a player from a club who have financial difficulties, Hearts inability to pay wages, you are contributing to their financial woes, and should be subjected to charges the same as Hearts were. If the situation was reversed would inaction also be considered appropriate in that case. What a tangled web we weave... I don't think Rangers are behind in terms of paying us for Wallace - we're not due anything until July from what I've read on here. So sadly we can't blame the non payment of wages on them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Surely if you have failed to make payments for a player from a club who have financial difficulties, Hearts inability to pay wages, you are contributing to their financial woes, and should be subjected to charges the same as Hearts were. If the situation was reversed would inaction also be considered appropriate in that case. What a tangled web we weave... I believe Article 3.1 of the SPL charter "Not acting in the utmost good faith to member clubs" would apply here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Clubs need to be in existence for at least 3 years before UEFA will grant them a licence. Rangers newco wipes out all the debt fresh start but no more assets to strip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beijingandrew Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Rangers newco wipes out all the debt fresh start but no more assets to strip And may still have to foot the tax bill if it is deemed a phoenix company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 And may still have to foot the tax bill if it is deemed a phoenix company. Probably only likely if they seek to retain Rangers in their name, play at Ibrox, in blue and are admitted direct to the SPL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beijingandrew Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Probably only likely if they seek to retain Rangers in their name, play at Ibrox, in blue and are admitted direct to the SPL If Craig Whyte is involved in the NewCo then it likely that they will be regarded as a phoenix company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If Craig Whyte is involved in the NewCo then it likely that they will be regarded as a phoenix company. He would fail the "fit and proper person" test for the newco as he had been involved in a football insolvency in the previous five years. Not that that type of rule hasn't been breached before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpship Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 What is needed is Rangers to go bust before the end of the season, preferably sooner then later... If Rangers go bust after the season's end, nothing will happen to them in the way of punishment. . 10point deduction max. . Start afresh as newco Rangers... We need them to be in a situation were they can't fulfill league fixtures. Thus breaking basic league rules. . The SPL/SFA will 100% have to act. . As they did with Livingston http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/livingston/8179998.stm Won't go in to huge detail but just think of the problems it would cause the SPL/SFA and other 11 teams in the league if Ranger couldn't fulfill their league fixtures... (who gets what points and the like) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandt Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Been out of touch with the saga for a few days now. Would anybody care to summarise where the case is at just now? :-) Seems we were to find out the result last week. When is the case going to be 100% finished? (Minus an appeal). If they lose the case, do they simply owe ?49 million, no more no less? (Is there interest, VAT or anything else on top of this? If so, what would be the total?) Do they have the money/resources to pay it back or create a deal that will see them survive in the SPL? (Through this ticketus company or something). Whats the minimum that will happen to them if they create a deal as they cant pay it all straight away? If they dont have the funds to pay, will they be put into administration but still stay in the SPL or will they go to the wall? Cheers :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudi74 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 just to add insult to injury... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Been out of touch with the saga for a few days now. Would anybody care to summarise where the case is at just now? :-) Seems we were to find out the result last week. When is the case going to be 100% finished? (Minus an appeal). If they lose the case, do they simply owe ?49 million, no more no less? (Is there interest, VAT or anything else on top of this? If so, what would be the total?) Do they have the money/resources to pay it back or create a deal that will see them survive in the SPL? (Through this ticketus company or something). Whats the minimum that will happen to them if they create a deal as they cant pay it all straight away? If they dont have the funds to pay, will they be put into administration but still stay in the SPL or will they go to the wall? Cheers :-) It will take you less time to skim through the 10 pages of this thread than it will for anyone to attempt to summarise the answers to these questions. It's a mess is probably the only short summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 IMO Rangers will have to be liquidated as the debt is too great to be managed out of. Same goes for Hearts. The buyer of Ibrox will then have first dibs on the newco replacement - owning the spiritual home of the Orcs guarantees their loyalty to the newco. I doubt Whyte will be anything to do with it. League expansion will let the newco in and they will start with a fresh balance sheet and a new name but still be the centre of bigotry and bile. The king is dead, long live the king. Enough will be done to ensure the tax debt can't be forced upon the newco. Don't go expecting a whole new look to Scottish football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 We need them to be in a situation were they can't fulfill league fixtures. Thus breaking basic league rules. . The SPL/SFA will 100% have to act. . As they did with Livingston http://news.bbc.co.u...ton/8179998.stm Livingston were relegated by the SFL. This is in SPL jurisdiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpship Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Livingston were relegated by the SFL. This is in SPL jurisdiction. I think we can rely on our Celtic friends to make the link and kick up as much fuss as possible. . No way can Rangers only escape with a 10 point deduction for wasting a league season. . League wasted, TV scheduler wasted, Other 11 clubs affected with loss of money. Other 11 club fans season tickets.. Is there a refund? As i said before, who gets what points? Are all rangers future fixture a 3 goal 3 point win for the opposition? What about the clubs who have already played rangers and have been beaten????? And on and on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The buyer of Ibrox will then have first dibs on the newco replacement - owning the spiritual home of the Orcs guarantees their loyalty to the newco. I doubt Whyte will be anything to do with it. Craig Whyte will be the new owner of Ibrox, he has his debt secured against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Craig Whyte will be the new owner of Ibrox, he has his debt secured against it. I'm sure he has a floating charge over all the assets of Rangers as opposed to a Standard Security over Ibrox so, if his ?18m could be met by selling other assets he would not necessarily get Ibrox, particularly if there was a better offer for the stadium that would lead to an increase in the proceeds from the sale of all assets. In addition, if as seems possible, Whyte used supporters money to repay the debt to Lloyds TSB there could be a question over his right to the floating charge and this might take years to decide, so really screw Rangers up. If Whyte has any sense at all he'll want away from Rangers as quickly as possible rather than to be owner of their ground and continue as owner of any newco. I'd suggest he'd probably be very wise to live the rest of his life as far away from any Rangers supporter as possible, coz when the muck hits the fan and all the details come out, I'm certain he will be very unpopular down Govan way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frodo Jambo Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The one thing that seems to be clear in this is that Rangers success throughout the 90's was built on the back of tax evasion. I've not seen anything in the media to suggest that they 'cheated' their way to title after title which is basically what they have done. That;s the inference that I wonder most about. It's not 'simply' a matter of Rangers allegedly being negligent in terms of taxation. Though heaven knows I don't even begin to understand the ins and outs, it appears to me that if they lose the tax case then the implication has to be that everything they gained - titles, cups and European revenue - was gained illegally. Now, if former high-earning bankers can be stripped of their honours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 That;s the inference that I wonder most about. It's not 'simply' a matter of Rangers allegedly being negligent in terms of taxation. Though heaven knows I don't even begin to understand the ins and outs, it appears to me that if they lose the tax case then the implication has to be that everything they gained - titles, cups and European revenue - was gained illegally. Now, if former high-earning bankers can be stripped of their honours... This is something I've felt has largely been ignored by the SPL/SFA when they've discussed, albeit they've hardly discussed it, possible outcomes should Rangers lose the tax case. This is not just a story of a team getting into financial distress by overspending and borrowing beyond their means, they have deliberately chosen to take a risk with a scheme that, even they, must have realised was, at the very least, dodgey and fraut with the possibility of severe consequences, but the greed and arogance that marks Rangers, and Murray, meant they went headlong into disaster. Murray, in his haste to get out, has now sold the club to a pretty disreputable man, who, as appears the case, has, in a very short time, compounded the crisis by apparently cheating the Rangers' season ticket holders and has possibly used that money to actually finance his purchase of Rangers. If ever any business deserved to go under due to financial mismanagement it is Rangers, and it is only because of their 'special relationship' with the SFA and SPL that people are even considering they might survive with only a 10 point penalty (it looks increasingly likely that administration is the least of their worries regardless of the result of the tax case). While I don't think Rangers should disappear altogether I do believe they should not receive any sympathy from the SFA or SPL, who should, in fact, be showing anger with the club and it's officials for cheating and bringing our game into massive disrepute. I just hope that, whatever the SPL/SFA try to do, enough of the rest of the SPL chairmen are prepared to stand up and say enough is enough and that any Rangers newco has to start at the bottom, where they belong. And who else other than the SFA or SPL could come up with Parma as an example of how they might treat Rangers, a club from the home of the Mafia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm sure he has a floating charge over all the assets of Rangers as opposed to a Standard Security over Ibrox so, if his ?18m could be met by selling other assets he would not necessarily get Ibrox, particularly if there was a better offer for the stadium that would lead to an increase in the proceeds from the sale of all assets. In addition, if as seems possible, Whyte used supporters money to repay the debt to Lloyds TSB there could be a question over his right to the floating charge and this might take years to decide, so really screw Rangers up. If Whyte has any sense at all he'll want away from Rangers as quickly as possible rather than to be owner of their ground and continue as owner of any newco. I'd suggest he'd probably be very wise to live the rest of his life as far away from any Rangers supporter as possible, coz when the muck hits the fan and all the details come out, I'm certain he will be very unpopular down Govan way. In that case, if I win the Euromillions tonight, I'm going to buy the place then raze it to the feckin' ground! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 In that case, if I win the Euromillions tonight, I'm going to buy the place then raze it to the feckin' ground! I might be able to buy the box of matches for you. But hold on, that might not be such a good idea, the insurance money might be enough to help save them and maybe CW might just beat you to it anyway:whistling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling Archer Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 They should have an asterisk placed next to any honours they've won during the period. You can't say they wouldnt have won them without it but it's important to recognise what has went on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 just to add insult to injury... great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 .....I just hope that, whatever the SPL/SFA try to do, enough of the rest of the SPL chairmen are prepared to stand up and say enough is enough and that any Rangers newco has to start at the bottom, where they belong. My understanding is that any vote by the SPL, to invite any Rangers NewCo to join, would have to be unanimous. The SPL requires eleven teams to vote for the change, and as RFC would no longer exist, every one of the remaining clubs will need to agree. If I was NewCo, I would not be too confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambofaefife Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 It would be justice if Rangers are stripped of the trophies won under Murray's tax dodging regime. When we are at it we could also go further back in time and and take of a title from the cowards at darkheid who continued playing when the heroes from other teams went of to fight in a war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasavallan Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 My understanding is that any vote by the SPL, to invite any Rangers NewCo to join, would have to be unanimous. The SPL requires eleven teams to vote for the change, and as RFC would no longer exist, every one of the remaining clubs will need to agree. If I was NewCo, I would not be too confident. Which is why I am surprised there is no charm offensive towards VR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Which is why I am surprised there is no charm offensive towards VR. Maybe the SPL think they have already started it by backing down from the 'good faith' fiasco. I wouldn't be surprised to find we start getting a fairer crack of the whip from them from now on at least until Rangers are sorted out one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasavallan Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Maybe the SPL think they have already started it by backing down from the 'good faith' fiasco. I wouldn't be surprised to find we start getting a fairer crack of the whip from them from now on at least until Rangers are sorted out one way or the other. The first OF game without Brines or Gollum in charges, I might believe you. Remind me, whose taking the Celtic game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 My understanding is that any vote by the SPL, to invite any Rangers NewCo to join, would have to be unanimous. The SPL requires eleven teams to vote for the change, and as RFC would no longer exist, every one of the remaining clubs will need to agree. If I was NewCo, I would not be too confident. The thing is Gas everybody exoects CW to form a newco Rangers right away, even if they are forced to start from the bottom. CW might not be allowed to form a Newco Rangers under the fit and proper person rule, plus if what the papers say and leaks from inside Ibrox that CW is now not the prefered creditor but rather Octopus (parent company of Ticketus) is now the prefered criditor, They will be forced to sell off the stadium to repay some of the debt. So whoever ends up with Ibrox is in the driving seat for newco, but they would also need to buy another league side willing to give up their history, raname and move to Ibrox, best of luck with that. If they cant buy out an existing league side and have to start with a brandnew Newco Rangers, then there might also be about a dozon or so ex-rangers people all claiming their version of newco is the right one, they might get into a bidding war for not only Ibrox but the right for the name. Not forgetting they have to compete with the likes of Gala or Spartans for league entry, A newco Rangers starting from Scracth would have to set up a club, buy Ibrox at auction, and risk applying for league entry. You will have spent about ?30m before you have even put a team on the park. Ibrox will have to be put up for sale as this is the only tangable asset, A willing newco rangers owner might also have to compete with the likes of Ikea, Morrisons and Cala or Barratt homes for the land. Remeber it wont be up to CW or anybody at all inside Rangers who get to decide what happens to the stadium, its down to the Administrators to do whats best for the debtors, These options are: Administration the powers will try to keep the company afloat until a suitable buyer has been found and can satisfy a majority of the debtors to accept Xp in the ? and that being the tax man is not going to be easy. Liquidation: A total fire sale everything must go "Stadium", "land" the lot, whatever money can be rasied will be then divided up to the debtors and they will just have to happy with what they get. Somebody might be able just to buy the name and the naming rights, butwith no staduim or infrastructure again best of luck with that. You could own the name and the history, but somebody else might be able to buy the stadium and call themselves another version, that makes things interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasavallan Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 CW might not be allowed to form a Newco Rangers under the fit and proper person rule, plus if what the papers say and leaks from inside Ibrox that CW is now not the prefered creditor but rather Octopus (parent company of Ticketus) is now the prefered criditor, They will be forced to sell off the stadium to repay some of the debt. I suspect that Octopus would be one hard cookie to deal with as I am sure there will be the odd Triad involvement somewhere in its organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adayinmay Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 This is something I've felt has largely been ignored by the SPL/SFA when they've discussed, albeit they've hardly discussed it, possible outcomes should Rangers lose the tax case. This is not just a story of a team getting into financial distress by overspending and borrowing beyond their means, they have deliberately chosen to take a risk with a scheme that, even they, must have realised was, at the very least, dodgey and fraut with the possibility of severe consequences, but the greed and arogance that marks Rangers, and Murray, meant they went headlong into disaster. Murray, in his haste to get out, has now sold the club to a pretty disreputable man, who, as appears the case, has, in a very short time, compounded the crisis by apparently cheating the Rangers' season ticket holders and has possibly used that money to actually finance his purchase of Rangers. If ever any business deserved to go under due to financial mismanagement it is Rangers, and it is only because of their 'special relationship' with the SFA and SPL that people are even considering they might survive with only a 10 point penalty (it looks increasingly likely that administration is the least of their worries regardless of the result of the tax case). While I don't think Rangers should disappear altogether I do believe they should not receive any sympathy from the SFA or SPL, who should, in fact, be showing anger with the club and it's officials for cheating and bringing our game into massive disrepute. I just hope that, whatever the SPL/SFA try to do, enough of the rest of the SPL chairmen are prepared to stand up and say enough is enough and that any Rangers newco has to start at the bottom, where they belong. And who else other than the SFA or SPL could come up with Parma as an example of how they might treat Rangers, a club from the home of the Mafia? Fine post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Agree with what you're saying HGH, as time goes on, and as more information becomes available, Craig Whyte seems less likely to be able to hang on in there. King and (Paul) Murray still seem to be hanging about like a bad smell. Johnston and (David) Murray have been making noises recently, as has Ellis. Vultures circling, and getting ready to pick over the carcass of RFC, I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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