Deevers Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 It will depend on how the assets are disposed of. Obviously whoever owns Ibrox would probably be in pole position, but there is nothing to stop anyone coming along with independent funding with a proposal to groundshare at Hampden. The new owner of Ibrox may only be looking for a return on his investment through a lease arrangement and may be open to a a bidding war between rival factions. The assumption being that a newco RFC is admitted direct to the SPL, otherwise the initial financial case might not add up. If they have to apply to join the SFL Div 3, then I can see rival bids from the likes of Spartans also being submitted. Another imponderable is the possibility that a potential owner decides to buy an existing SPL club and move it lock stock and barrel to Ibrox. St Mirren better beware! My god!! Chick Young will be wetting himself at that prospect!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 It will depend on how the assets are disposed of. Obviously whoever owns Ibrox would probably be in pole position, but there is nothing to stop anyone coming along with independent funding with a proposal to groundshare at Hampden. The new owner of Ibrox may only be looking for a return on his investment through a lease arrangement and may be open to a a bidding war between rival factions. The assumption being that a newco RFC is admitted direct to the SPL, otherwise the initial financial case might not add up. If they have to apply to join the SFL Div 3, then I can see rival bids from the likes of Spartans also being submitted. Another imponderable is the possibility that a potential owner decides to buy an existing SPL club and move it lock stock and barrel to Ibrox. St Mirren better beware! So it could get very messy. Is there a chance that rival bids may set up two separate Rangers teams, so for example 2012 Rangers and Glasgow Rangers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 So it could get very messy. Is there a chance that rival bids may set up two separate Rangers teams, so for example 2012 Rangers and Glasgow Rangers? That's exactly what could happen. We could see an ex-director with one bid and perhaps a fans trust with another. If the oldco survives the season, it doesn't actually leave a lot of time for a newco team to get itself organised, players to be signed, finance put in place, sponsors to be found, HMRC Phoenix Co. regulations to be overcome etc. That's why I wouldn't rule out someone acquiring another SPL club, effectively doing as Airdie Utd did with Clydebank. You would have a squad of SPL players, an SPL registration and there would be no comeback from HMRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 St Mirren are owned by the support so rule them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 St Mirren are owned by the support so rule them out. There were plans to make that happen but it fell through. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15823882 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 My god!! Chick Young will be wetting himself at that prospect!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 An excerpt from the latest blog on the RTC website (as a whole it's not that interesting or earth shattering but I thouight this was worth posting here, my emphasis ) - As for the most recent wave of insolvency rumours, I can confirm that Rangers had instructed their legal advisors to prepare for a possible filing at the end of the transfer window. However, I chose to sit on this story as it was likely to be misinterpreted. There are many tactical reasons why a company might want the option of filing on a given date, but might later choose to not go ahead. There are many factors that would affect Whyte?s decision to file- and the simple truth is that we do not have access to enough information to make any statement about a date when receivership or administration would become his best option. Whyte could file tomorrow or several months from now. The exact date does not matter too much. All sides will have had ample time to prepare their positions and refine their strategies. The only certain outcome is that the country?s top law firms are going to be busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the general Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 St Mirren are owned by the support so rule them out. FAIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 CW did get off lightly at IOU brox yesterday, but there was >18000 at a cup tie. Back to the pre-Souness days Rangers offered nothing in the way to put up a fight, their team looked like very few of the players wanted to be there. This is now the beginning of the end, 2012 is doomsyear after all The SFA/SPL will need to do everything by the book and in the open an alien concept for them. but in giving preferencial treatment to a newco Rangers they will rip the heart out of the game as a whole, The fans from the likes of Aberdeen and DU might just give up and say whats the point. the SFA/SPL have 2 choices save Rangers or save the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 So it could get very messy. Is there a chance that rival bids may set up two separate Rangers teams, so for example 2012 Rangers and Glasgow Rangers? Like Bucks Fizz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Like Bucks Fizz? and also Yes and Affirmative Travor Rabin who was only with them for 5 mins ended up with the name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Well at least one redtop asking some of the right questions JAMES TRAYNOR CRAIG Whyte was spot on. He used selected Sunday's papers to hint that the worst was still to come for Rangers and he wasn't wrong. By mid afternoon yesterday Rangers were out of the Scottish Cup and their fans were storming away from Ibrox. Actually, most of them didn't even bother yesterday. Fewer than 17,000 watched Rangers being dumped out of the Scottish Cup and in my opinion you can't fool all of the people all of the time. He'll probably try again anyway but who does the owner blame this morning? The old board again? Ally McCoist, left, for failing to transform cheap options who can barely run with the ball or even pass it into genuine players? No point in circling the wagons or high-tailing it to one of your bolt holes this time, Craig. Do the right thing. Do the decent thing and come clean about the business plan. Although there were acres of empty seats at Ibrox yesterday Whyte had the cojones to show up but now he has to speak up. Rangers fans are due explanations rather than exclamations. The people whose loyalty has been cashed in to raise ?24.4million have been shown indifference when they are due respect. Just look again at that ?24.4m figure Craig and tell me you don't owe these people. Give them the truth no matter how painful it might be for you or them. Keep it plain and simple and let them decide if they want to continue buying into your regime. You've already admitted you've made mistakes so just let it all out, starting perhaps with the working capital and cash-flow projections pre-takeover. With a bit of luck Whyte will have looked at the coverage his attempt to rubbish Record Sport's exclusive about selling off future season tickets received and realised that the papers, apart from the subservient Sun, aren't swallowing the bilge any longer. The game's just about up. The fans know the chairman has "securitised" - let's just call it borrowed - a fortune on season-ticket sales but they aren't sure where this money has gone. Or why it was necessary to borrow it in the first place. After all, Whyte and his team of advisers took an age on their due diligence so they should have realised there would be this ?10m funding gap which he has thrown up as the cause of some of the problems. Yet he talks about it as though it suddenly made a blind-side run through his business plan. The fact is the takeover group were warned by Rangers' Independent Board, set up to examine potential buyers' offers, that their projected figures were too low. That advice was ignored, as was the intelligence given on the amount required for a transfer budget. Someone with bags of knowledge on how to cut business costs and avoid payments must have shaped Whyte's strategy. Unfortunately we can now see that same person hadn't much of a clue about how to do that within a football club and keep the customers happy at the same time. So much for takeover specialists. If Whyte suddenly found the figures were miles, millions of them, off what exactly did he and his people do with all that due diligence time they demanded? Who recommended the figures? Who missed the ?10m funding pit into which Rangers have fallen? He must be a bright boy. As part of the transaction to acquire the club Whyte had to provide a working capital and cash-flow document to show how he would take the business on but the Independent Board warned him he was well out on his projections. And not just by ?10m. They told him he was off by ?22m but their warning fell on deaf ears. Yet how much healthier would Rangers' finances be right now if just one within the takeover group had listened? They would still be in bother, of course, but they wouldn't have had to sell off as many of the season tickets that's for sure. No matter what Whyte says or how much overtime his spin doctors put in to divert blame, the bottom line is the owner went into this with his eyes open. He knew the risks. For reasons known only to himself he was happy to pay Lloyds Bank 100 pence in the pound when no one else could understand why and he was also prepared to take on the potential tax liability. That could be as much as ?49m. He even said he would pay the smaller tax bill, the one for ?2.8m, but he didn't and that tab is currently running at ?4.1m because of penalties for non-payment. Whyte has yet to explain the business sense in allowing a bill, which he had accepted as legitimate, to jump by such an amount. And he should justify why he told the papers the old board had left him with ?7m from a previous deal with Ticketus, the company he has used to raise money against season tickets over the current campaign and the next three. According to documents, which he must have seen or known about, that isn't the case. Rangers' management accounts from last April show that the balance due to Ticketus at the end of that month was ?1.8m. But it was also made clear this amount was to be paid in May, 2011. So where did Whyte get the figure of ?7m? And when he said in his friendly interviews with the Sundays that he had to pay ?1m to Rapid Vienna as part of the Nikica Jelavic transfer he didn't mention Rangers were due ?3m on transfer fees around April/May last year.Well, with so much going on he can't be expected to remember everything although if he wants another look at the relevant documents I'll be happy to help out. However, he should try to help Rangers fans understand what is happening with their club and their money. For a kick off, if the ?18m which paid off Lloyds Bank came from one of his companies why can't he explain in detail what happened to the millions raised through Ticketus? It's a question which deserves a simple and clear answer. It certainly hasn't been invested in the playing squad as even Whyte and his sidekick Ali Russell must have noticed yesterday. Also, Rangers have delayed in producing a set of audited financial statements which would show clearly cash in and cash out. He blames the EBT tax case but the previous board were always able to produce sets of accounts when they had the same cloud of uncertainty hanging over them. How about it? How about producing those fully audited accounts and calling an AGM? If you're happy enough borrowing on the strength of the support's commitment the least you can do is explain what's going on. 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colinmaroon Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Ref Regans tweet - Well I never! SFA CEO is right in the middle of the Uglies camp!!! Who would have believed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Loving the thought of Rangers splitting in two... Like AFC Wimbledon and MK Dons. It would definitely be better than a single Newco Hun Phoenix FC. It would be really amusing watching them batter the shit out of each other over who is the peepul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Loving the thought of Rangers splitting in two... Like AFC Wimbledon and MK Dons. It would definitely be better than a single Newco Hun Phoenix FC. It would be really amusing watching them batter the shit out of each other over who is the peepul. It would be like a scene from Life of Brian!!! Fantastic to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 More problems for Mr whyte http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-16912365 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 More problems for Mr whyte http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-16912365 That article has just given away how Whyte hoped to get around creditors, I imagine that there might be a few more court cases trying to ring fence money now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 checked the Daily Mail this morning and their lead commentator, Mr geechan 9or something) basically said RFC could be liquidated and Scottish football would have no option but to allow them straight back into the top league as everyone relies on the Old Firm. Thisis the same journalist who wanted to hammer Hearts for payingwages a day late. What is the point in Scottish football, when two clubs, brought up on hatred and bile, control everything in the media, everything in the SFA and everything in the SPL. Scottish football is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 It would be like a scene from Life of Brian!!! Fantastic to think about. 'The Orcs of Ibrox's Deservers of Better Front' versus ' The Better-deserving Orcs of Ibrox's Front'. PMSL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 It would be like a scene from Life of Brian!!! Fantastic to think about. Just think how confused the referee will be when they play each other, which one does he does he favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 BBC Scotland special item tonight that Whyte may have lied in court ... Ooooya ! Watch at 6:25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigaro Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I hope they burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-16912365 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 More problems for Mr whyte http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-16912365 This story will be on Reporting Scotland this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If its all lies, I assume we'll be seeing Whyte in court against the BBC, defending his 'good name'? Whats that? We're not. I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 :greggy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 For all his threats, I'm not aware of Craig Whyte having taken any action against anyone for what's been said so far about him and his business practices. Even the BBC seem to be challenging him to bring it on, suggesting they're really confident that he has no grounds for action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 For all his threats, I'm not aware of Craig Whyte having taken any action against anyone for what's been said so far about him and his business practices. Even the BBC seem to be challenging him to bring it on, suggesting they're really confident that he has no grounds for action. The BBC have been careful throughout. They cannot really be sued as they are quoting, in the main, from official court judgements or transcripts. I'm sure the tick-tock on the RFC clock is getting faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Evidence has been heard in the case and a written judgement is expected at a later date. During evidence Mr Whyte was asked about his seven-year disqualification from being a company director. In court, he said: "This is going back to matters some time. I don't have any recollection of what it was about just now." He was then asked: "You can't remember why you were banned for seven years?" Mr Whyte replied: "Well, I'm not going to say in open court and get it wrong." The Rangers owner was then asked: "Was it anything to do with the treatment of creditors?" He replied: "No." Lovely. The bit in bold - as if, eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Gilbert Wauchope Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Like Bucks Fizz? Only if you can make it with Special Brew. "Bringing revenues and costs back into kilter was going to be a challenge for any new owner. It's true across football, but it's most true for a club with a Bollinger lifestyle but a Tennent's-sized bank account.", Douglas Fraser's BBC article, today. [PS I know it's not THAT Bucks Fizz you meant, but I thought ... why spoil the chance to laugh at Rangers? ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
station hearts Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Only if you can make it with Special Brew. "Bringing revenues and costs back into kilter was going to be a challenge for any new owner. It's true across football, but it's most true for a club with a Bollinger lifestyle but a Tennent's-sized bank account.", Douglas Fraser's BBC article, today. [PS I know it's not THAT Bucks Fizz you meant, but I thought ... why spoil the chance to laugh at Rangers? ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
station hearts Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 It's not all doom and gloom for mr Whyte,i heard the sun have hacked his phone and topped it up with ?10... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Rangers have been awarded a 3-2 win over Dundee United yesterday as it has been revealed Craig Whyte borrowed 3 goals from next season scottish cup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If its all lies, I assume we'll be seeing Whyte in court against the BBC, defending his 'good name'? Whats that? We're not. I see. Did anyone have a kid at their school who would go around saying "ma da's a lawyer an' he's gonnay SUE YOU!!" if you so much as sat in their seat or tackled them at football? I bet that's what Craig Whyte was like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeno Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Traynor's such a ****** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Deeds Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 As much as it's nice to dream of Rangers demise it won't happen. In the end their fan base is big enough to guarantee their survival. It's not that long ago that Celtic looked screwed but Fergus McCann knew there was money to be made, bought the club for a song & turned them around. It may not be Craig White, but someone will save Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 As much as it's nice to dream of Rangers demise it won't happen. In the end their fan base is big enough to guarantee their survival. It's not that long ago that Celtic looked screwed but Fergus McCann knew there was money to be made, bought the club for a song & turned them around. It may not be Craig White, but someone will save Rangers. Assuming that Rangers lose at the Tax Tribunal, their total debt will supposedly be somewhere in the region of ?80m - ?100, with losses of ?1m/month not counting interest. I can't see there being many folk queuing up to throw away that sort of money.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 As much as it's nice to dream of Rangers demise it won't happen. In the end their fan base is big enough to guarantee their survival. It's not that long ago that Celtic looked screwed but Fergus McCann knew there was money to be made, bought the club for a song & turned them around. It may not be Craig White, but someone will save Rangers. Fiorentina, RC Strasbourg, FC Servette, FC Lausanne....all fairly big clubs that went bust and had to be reformed in the past 10 years. Very few clubs are too big to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambopompey Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 As much as it's nice to dream of Rangers demise it won't happen. In the end their fan base is big enough to guarantee their survival. It's not that long ago that Celtic looked screwed but Fergus McCann knew there was money to be made, bought the club for a song & turned them around. It may not be Craig White, but someone will save Rangers. the level of debt and shambles celtic had was no-where near what rangers seem to have, Fergus was able to turn average crowds of 25000 to 60000 by upgrading parkhead, he was able to see the potential to invest his money and make a healthy return and leave them on a stable ground, for anyone to take over rangers in going to need about 100m to clear all debts and put the club on an even keel. think what you may find is groups waiting in the wings to pounce to buy the ground/name on the cheap and starting up from fresh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Assuming that Rangers lose at the Tax Tribunal, their total debt will supposedly be somewhere in the region of ?80m - ?100, with losses of ?1m/month not counting interest. I can't see there being many folk queuing up to throw away that sort of money.... Agree totally. If the situation at the moment was Rangers were for sale, and the account showed a zero balance, no funds and no debt, I think people would be queuing up to throw money into them. Given the present and real situation no one will go anywhere near them, unless they are barking mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Traynor's such a ****** Yes. But if Traynor's a ****** what does that make Whyte? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Deeds Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Fiorentina, RC Strasbourg, FC Servette, FC Lausanne....all fairly big clubs that went bust and had to be reformed in the past 10 years. Very few clubs are too big to fail. And is it a different set of fans that follow these "new" clubs? Scottish football is a two-horse town. If you think that Rangers won't be looked after then you're kidding yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeno Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Yes. But if Traynor's a ****** what does that make Whyte? Pick something an go with that, not overly fussed tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 As much as it's nice to dream of Rangers demise it won't happen. In the end their fan base is big enough to guarantee their survival. It's not that long ago that Celtic looked screwed but Fergus McCann knew there was money to be made, bought the club for a song & turned them around. It may not be Craig White, but someone will save Rangers. I know football has changed, but wasn't Celtic's debt at the time only a handful of millions of pounds. Back pocket change for wee Fergus. Their potential debt is more than the cumulative number of brain cells of the whole Rangers support, including ex-pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I know football has changed, but wasn't Celtic's debt at the time only a handful of millions of pounds. Back pocket change for wee Fergus. Their potential debt is more than the cumulative number of brain cells of the whole Rangers support, including ex-pats. That would total about 5 brain cells. Newsnight right now is making some interesting watching. Allegations of perjury in an old court case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Did anyone have a kid at their school who would go around saying "ma da's a lawyer an' he's gonnay SUE YOU!!" if you so much as sat in their seat or tackled them at football? I bet that's what Craig Whyte was like. I did!... However he was of little interest... I was more concerned with the laddie that used to say: "If you try and tackle me, I'll kick your ***** in"!! Both those guys honestly existed!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 The SFA have stated that they are still investigating Craig Whyte . How long does it take what are they investigating ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Why are all the televised documents on the BBC program spelled: "White" rather than Whyte by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Dirty Deeds is right to the extent that there are only 2 teams the football authorities will bend over backwards to help. And that's not paranoia, that's fact. The third biggest team (Hearts) would be dumped without a second thought despite the empty noises recently of 'scottish football needs a strong Hearts'. It seems that the formation of a new Rangers in the event of liquidation leaves the authorities with the decision whether to demote them to the lowest league or allow them to remain in the SPL and their decision should be the same for Rangers at it would be for any team to preserve sporting integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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