Hungry hippo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If he has put zero funds into the club then it is a disgrace if was allowed to buy the club. It's like the old Northern Rock style no deposit mortgages. Unsustainable gambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Factoring is nothing new obviously, and it is some time since David Bowie securitised his back catalogue. But Leeds United are not a great example for football clubs following this strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sounds like poetry.... Wonder why the record have turned in their beloved. Because they now know that Whytes time is nearly up. They'll now concentrate all their efforts into trying to find a way out of this for Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Rangers fan in my office just said that the whole thing is made up. He nearly burst in to tears anaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 How does this work? I'm guessing it's like a loan But who would be stupid enough to lend him that when the club could go down the swanny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It's been reported his old club are due a sell on aswell as the remaining initial transfer fee. Factor in wages, they might make a loss. Presumably why they kept knocking back bids for Jelavic then? Not because they didn't have to sell as the scenario was being painted by some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Oh dear, no more free lunches for the Record. Unless Whyte told them to report on his brave and necessary actions to distract from the lack of signings? ?400k for Temps? Aye, when they next have money in 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The arrogance of the Orks at my work last night was astounding! The general consensus was (and this was said word for word) "doesnt matter what happens to us as the sfa will do everything to lessen the damage because WE ARE SCOTTISH FOOTBALL" WTF?????? i had to walk away from the cretin. Sadly, he's probably correct If he has put zero funds into the club then it is a disgrace if was allowed to buy the club. It's like the old Northern Rock style no deposit mortgages. Unsustainable gambles. Wonderful isn't it? And to think folks on here were fretting about the Orcs being able to afford Temps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahgrassyshoes Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 All sounding very good. However, I'm sure we'll see a broken SPL crest on the back of the record before we ever see a borken Rangers crest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ignore the figures as I've basically made them up as I don't know how much Rangers make in season tickets but assuming Rangers make ?10 million a year in season tickets, Whyte has gone to a company who have given him a loan for ?40 million to fund the take over and running costs, based on projected income on the season tickets for the next 4 years at ?10 million a year. They will now have to pay back the ?40 million plus the sizeable interest on the loan and, if I'm reading it correctly, the VAT on the ticket sales. Right idea but not quite how it works. In May Rangers released approx 25,000 ST for the next 4 years from the Floating Charge held by CW. That allowed them to mortgage them off. Let's say the STs are worth ?400 each after deducting VAT, That is ?10M a year or ?40M over the 4 years. Ticketus give Rangers ?30M up front. Rangers repay the "loan" by giving Ticketus the first ?10M of ST sales for the next 4 years. starting in the summer of 2011 and going on through 2012, 2013 and 2014 Ticketus receive ?40M in return for a loan of ?30M, a profit of 33%. Rangers get a boost to their cashflow in year 1, but have a shortfall of ?10M in each of the next 3 years. Not good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So he's sold the rights to the tickets to a 3rd party who will now sell them? Closer to the mark? Not as far as I can tell. From what I read: Rangers must sell the tickets, but the revenue they get from it must be given to Ticketus to repay the loan they were given. If they fail to repay the loan, the tickets are the security so Ticketus will take them, sell them and take the revenue. What is troubling is that usually clubs use Season Tickets to pay for costs/transfers/wages during the season, seemingly all of this money has already been used... for 4 YEARS! Succinctly: They're fecked, even if they don't lose the tax case (and lets face it, they will), their budget is going to be shoe-string, they won't be anywhere near challenging Celtic by the end of it... In fact, the usual suspects battling for 3rd place will probably be battling for 2nd place along with Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Not as far as I can tell. From what I read: Rangers must sell the tickets, but the revenue they get from it must be given to Ticketus to repay the loan they were given. If they fail to repay the loan, the tickets are the security so Ticketus will take them, sell them and take the revenue. What is troubling is that usually clubs use Season Tickets to pay for costs/transfers/wages during the season, seemingly all of this money has already been used... for 4 YEARS! Succinctly: They're fecked, even if they don't lose the tax case (and lets face it, they will), their budget is going to be shoe-string, they won't be anywhere near challenging Celtic by the end of it... In fact, the usual suspects battling for 3rd place will probably be battling for 2nd place along with Rangers. I wonder what Ticketus stands to lose, if anything, if the stickies do go into administration if Whyte goes for the pre-pack option prior to the tax case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So am I right in saying - Ticketus own the ST's / JJB owns the mechandise / Murray owns Murray Park.........so all Rangers have in assets are the players and Ibrox........bye bye Rangers Hello Govan FC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Actually, thinking about this more, it means the pre-pack newco option is gone, as Whyte can't shaft the other creditors prior to the tax case result! Even more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So am I right in saying - Ticketus own the ST's Not exactly no. Rangers own the STs. it's a bit like a mortgage, but instead of a house it's Tickets... lots of tickets. Sounds like a really secure loan now doesn't it? Actually, thinking about this more, it means the pre-pack newco option is gone, as Whyte can't shaft the other creditors prior to the tax case result! Even more Would be really interesting to know what the terms of Ticketus' deal with Rangers is. Surely they wouldn't just give them all that money without strict terms knowing that the tax case is hovering overhead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostHunter Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 THE BUSINESS The Ticketus business model is based on purchasing an allocation of tickets for an event, up to two years in advance. (An example of this will be season tickets for English Premiership Football Clubs.) Event organisers receive a discounted price versus face value for their tickets in return for an immediate level of ticket sales. Ticketus is then able to sell the tickets on to the general public at face value, to mitigate the potential distribution risk. The event organisers will distribute this portion of tickets first through their normal distribution channels, which allows Ticketus to recover its original investment, plus a margin. Interesting. http://www.principlefirst.co.uk/investments/octopus-vcts/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So am I right in saying - Ticketus own the ST's / JJB owns the mechandise / Murray owns Murray Park.........so all Rangers have in assets are the players and Ibrox........bye bye Rangers Hello Govan FC? Maybe not even that - with the amounts of money involved in all of this I'd be very surprised if this was not a secured loan with Ibrox being the security. Oh dear!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Indeed, it's like a glorified 500 club, except Ticketus put up the costs rather than fans and get 600's worth back. Rangers fund the repayments by, er, selling season tickets to fans. Ergo, the fans income goes straight to a 3rd party! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What does selling 4 years worth of st money mean? Does it not mean he's basically sold them to another company and then they buy them back from them each season to sell ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Beautiful. They are absolutely goosed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Indeed, it's like a glorified 500 club, except Ticketus put up the costs rather than fans and get 600's worth back. Rangers fund the repayments by, er, selling season tickets to fans. Ergo, the fans income goes straight to a 3rd party! So it gives Rangers a short term boost in cash, but at a cost of long term finance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostHunter Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Interesting also, however I'm not saying that it's the case .. Octopus Investments (ticketus) are part of Octopus Holdings (if it's the same one) - who are a Hong Kong Organisation... I'm sure I read somewhere that Whyte owns/runs a company called HTX Holdings which whilst based in USA, also has a registration in Hong Kong. Just saying likes... ^ the above may or may not be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So it gives Rangers a short term boost in cash, but at a cost of long term finance. Except Whyte allegedly used the 'boost' to pay off Lloyds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Except Whyte allegedly used the 'boost' to pay off Lloyds! So Whyte came in and spent none of his money like people thought he would but instead put the long term future of Rangers in danger. It almost feels like a Glazier situation, using the clubs money to mean you can buy the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buba Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So whyte has sold off three seasons income to fund this season. Then sold off part of the fourth season just to make the first repayment?? How the hell can they make it through the next four season then?? And thats before a VAT bill and a tax bill in total about ?54m.. Wow.... Just wow!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Tarts 1874 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Romanov should offer them a loan, just for a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Romanov should offer them a loan, just for a laugh. Or we should get the players to point to our Wonga sponsor when we score at Ibrox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodge Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So whyte has sold off three seasons income to fund this season. Then sold off part of the fourth season just to make the first repayment?? How the hell can they make it through the next four season then?? And thats before a VAT bill and a tax bill in total about ?54m.. Wow.... Just wow!!!! They seem to be relying on the hope that they will get into the CL and the cash from that will keep them afloat. Dangerous strategy. I'd say they are right on the brink, successful tax case or not. Whilst I don't particlularly want Celtic to win the league this year either, that happening might push them over the edge. Interesting times.......for everyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Romanov should offer them a loan, just for a laugh. Don't think even Wonga would touch them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Tarts 1874 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Or we should get the players to point to our Wonga sponsor when we score at Ibrox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So am I right in saying - Ticketus own the ST's / JJB owns the mechandise / Murray owns Murray Park.........so all Rangers have in assets are the players and Ibrox........bye bye Rangers Hello Govan FC? Add to your list that Whyte (not Rangers) has first call on Ibrox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I always enjoyed the Daily Record. Surely it could be bettered with a broken crest though? Allow me....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Indeed, it's like a glorified 500 club, except Ticketus put up the costs rather than fans and get 600's worth back. Rangers fund the repayments by, er, selling season tickets to fans. Ergo, the fans income goes straight to a 3rd party! That is it. A 500 club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairneyhill Jambo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 They seem to be relying on the hope that they will get into the CL and the cash from that will keep them afloat. Dangerous strategy. I'd say they are right on the brink, successful tax case or not. Whilst I don't particlularly want Celtic to win the league this year either, that happening might push them over the edge. Interesting times.......for everyone else Given their current squad,and no chance of bringing new players in, there's no way they will qualify for the CL group stages. Rangers really are up shit creek without a paddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sounds like poetry.... Wonder why the record have turned in their beloved. Rather than turning on their beloved Rangers, it looks to me more like they've just stayed loyal to David Murray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bickfest Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Right idea but not quite how it works. In May Rangers released approx 25,000 ST for the next 4 years from the Floating Charge held by CW. That allowed them to mortgage them off. Let's say the STs are worth ?400 each after deducting VAT, That is ?10M a year or ?40M over the 4 years. Ticketus give Rangers ?30M up front. Rangers repay the "loan" by giving Ticketus the first ?10M of ST sales for the next 4 years. starting in the summer of 2011 and going on through 2012, 2013 and 2014 Ticketus receive ?40M in return for a loan of ?30M, a profit of 33%. Rangers get a boost to their cashflow in year 1, but have a shortfall of ?10M in each of the next 3 years. Not good! The fact that HMRC are looking for VAT on the proceeds from Ticketus suggests that the advance is indeed a discounted sale of the future season tickets rather than a loan secured on them, no? The shortfall can be partly met each year by continually re-selling 4 years in advance, but that means, in working capital terms, they start each year some ?3.5 - 4m in the red. It seems to me that Mr Whyte is indeed focused on a very short term return. Administration is inevitable, win or lose the tax case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Rather than turning on their beloved Rangers, it looks to me more like they've just stayed loyal to David Murray. Which is interesting. The timing on the last day of the window surely isn't a coincidence given that Jellyfish is offski and replacements seem to be few and far between. Given that Paul Murray is quoted at length and is the source of the bulk of the story in terms of the VAT owed on the deal, you wonder how much of it is motivated by revenge. Still, no matter. Long may they squirm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So whyte has sold off three seasons income to fund this season. Then sold off part of the fourth season just to make the first repayment?? How the hell can they make it through the next four season then?? And thats before a VAT bill and a tax bill in total about ?54m.. Wow.... Just wow!!!! It's a bit like a Ponzi scheme or pyramid selling, isn't it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageddon Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So ... If you take a car on hire purchase and fail to make all the payments, do you have to return the car to the company??? Welcome back Lee Wallace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Octopus want their money back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchies75 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Keith Jackson on Talksport saying today's story is only part 1 and there will be more in tomorrow's paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Stinkfinger Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The cretin that is keith Jackson has just stated on Talksport that Rankers could go into Administration regardless of what happens with the Tax case.............. They are in a very, very bad way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The cretin that is keith Jackson has just stated on Talksport that Rankers could go into Administration regardless of what happens with the Tax case.............. They are in a very, very bad way. And when its Keith "paint my heart blue" Jackson who says that, you know it must be pretty *******ing serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Keith Jackson. Live on Talksport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The cretin that is keith Jackson has just stated on Talksport that Rankers could go into Administration regardless of what happens with the Tax case.............. They are in a very, very bad way. When the Peroxide One is stating that, they must really, genuinely be on the brink of disaster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Up yees :greggy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1874M Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Keith Jackson. Live on Talksport I hope that some knuckle headed Orc give Jackson a complete kicking even if this is true. Would be beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 When the Peroxide One is stating that, they must really, genuinely be on the brink of disaster! Or maybe even over the edge and hurtling towards armageddon at extremely high speed. With any luck!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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