Independence PROS and CONS

[Don Draper]

Nice article in the Herald about the overall effect of unionist scare stories: http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/are-independence-scare-stories-more-likely-to-have-the-opposite-effect.16544233

[Don Draper]

I never wanted to bring that up but I fear it would be absolutely aweful with lots of Gaelic programmes and River city.

 

Come backs for Taggart, Take the high road and Monarch of the glen

 

Music programmes hosted by Eddi effin Reader with Runrig and Proclaimer types.

 

Absolute Hell.

 

Aye, totally gutting - no more top-quality English programmes like Cash in the Attic, Strictly Come Dancing and The One Show. How will you cope?

[Patrick Bateman]

It's a lovely place to live because there's over 60 million people supporting us and the rest of the UK in taxes etc

We'd have proportionately more resources with less liabilities in an independent Scotland. We aren't supported or subsidised, we are net contributors to the union.

We'd lose alot of investment if we withdrew from the Union

Based on what, exactly? The press conferences of the past few weeks have put Scotland in the global eye again. That's the way we get investment, not by hoping Oxbridge educated ConLabDems decide to pass things onto us as an afterthought.

 

We'll still be recovering from a double dip recession probably into the early 2020's

Again, based on what? Even if this is true, we'd still have greater assets/liabilities ratio than while part of the UK.

 

Also take into consideration the energy costs with most coal power stations being decommissioned soon they'll need to replace them with stations of some sort

 

If they replace them with nuclear stations there's then the security issues that would be involved considering alex salmond wants to cut the forces to the bare bones

 

There has already been a huge investment into tidal energies. As for 'cutting the forces to the bare bones' - It's more a case of bringing it into line with spending on a scale similar to other countries - Do we *really* need to be part of the FOURTH largest military budget in the world? Does the money spent on these things really make us more safe than European neighbours, or live happier, healthier lives for that matter? I don't think it does. The military budget doesn't really have much to do with defending nuclear facilities either.

 

I don't think that Scotland would "continue to be ok"

 

This I'd agree on, rather than being content with 'OK" I think we'd do far better acting as the nation that we clearly are, rather than allowing critical decisions on the economy, military and welfare to be made by a political culture at Westminster which is largely alien and indifferent to the values most people in Scotland hold.

 

Sorry for disappointing the anti-independence crew by not pandering to their 'oppression' line - probably because hardly anyone who wants independence would claim we are being oppressed, rather we'd rather make our own decisions. I still struggle to see why people would rather let their country be controlled in any way by the Oxbridge mafia which dominate Westminster. Why be afraid of Scotland making its own decisions?

[kingantti1874]

With that in mind though, if it was empirically proven that independence did improve the money in people's pockets but 10 years later you were worse off, how would you vote?

 

Independence is what you make it.

 

Id vote no Geoff

[kingantti1874]

No, I don't. You are a people with a fault line in your politics about national identity, no more and no less. Some people want Scotland to be independent of the rest of the UK, others don't, and maybe there's a group who either don't mind or haven't made up their minds. In that situation, the only reason for saying yes is that you want it, and the only reason for saying no is that you don't.

 

 

Fair point but personally speaking I think as a nation we have small man syndrome, that said if the new oil stories are true - meaning we'd be able to get rid of the defecit and debt, increase spending on critical services, lower corp tax to attract new business and ultimately end up better off I'm all for it... But if that is true Then it should be very easy to prove and campaign along these lines and therefore thre would be a strong possibility of a yes vote. As it stands - mone of that has been discussed and none of the detail thought through so as it stands at the moment I'm a firm no

[IMA MAROON]

CON

 

Why should we limit ourselves to running Scotland when we have the UK to run.

 

Wee sweetie shop mentality.

[southside1874]

Sorry for disappointing the anti-independence crew by not pandering to their 'oppression' line - probably because hardly anyone who wants independence would claim we are being oppressed, rather we'd rather make our own decisions. I still struggle to see why people would rather let their country be controlled in any way by the Oxbridge mafia which dominate Westminster. Why be afraid of Scotland making its own decisions?

 

This completely baffles me why folk don't want to take some control of their country away from England. Like I said previously, folk that would like to remain in the union appear to me to have no backbone and would prefer to scrounge of the english than fend for themselves.

 

The english are more likely to vote for their independence thus cutting off Scotland. Only when the oil runs out and we're on our knees though.

 

I can only put it down to a complete lack of self worth and pride. A bit strong but I can't really think of any other reason.

 

Personally I would rather not scrounge of the english to survive. I would prefer a lower standard of living and pride. Folk in europe don't starve anymore and we are an energy rich nation so we will have warmth.

[Moriarty]

This completely baffles me why folk don't want to take some control of their country away from England. Like I said previously, folk that would like to remain in the union appear to me to have no backbone and would prefer to scrounge of the english than fend for themselves.

 

The english are more likely to vote for their independence thus cutting off Scotland. Only when the oil runs out and we're on our knees though.

 

I can only put it down to a complete lack of self worth and pride. A bit strong but I can't really think of any other reason.

 

Personally I would rather not scrounge of the english to survive. I would prefer a lower standard of living and pride. Folk in europe don't starve anymore and we are an energy rich nation so we will have warmth.

 

you are the kind the SNP loves. Equating pride for your country with whether or not you are pro independence.

[southside1874]

you are the kind the SNP loves. Equating pride for your country with whether or not you are pro independence.

 

It haven't said anything about pride for my country.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Pro - We'd get rid of the Sellic minded face like a melted wellie Bra Tycoon.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16779891

 

[3fingersreid]

The english are more likely to vote for their independence thus cutting off Scotland. Only when the oil runs out and we're on our knees though.

 

Southside as you posted this maybe you can tell me what exactly WE would do when this happens-and it will- as it seems to be the jewel in the crown of the SNP argument

 

 

come on Mr Salmond tell me more about the celtic tiger

[2NaFish]

Pro - We'd get rid of the Sellic minded face like a melted wellie Bra Tycoon.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16779891

 

 

Michelle complained "everything would go up". From a woman who sells wonderbras?

[southside1874]

The english are more likely to vote for their independence thus cutting off Scotland. Only when the oil runs out and we're on our knees though.

 

Southside as you posted this maybe you can tell me what exactly WE would do when this happens-and it will- as it seems to be the jewel in the crown of the SNP argument

 

 

come on Mr Salmond tell me more about the celtic tiger

 

You would hopefully have invested this income into the country before it runs out but as I said earlier Scotland is an energy rich country and would be exporting electricity from wave and wind power. We appear to be good at making drinks, research and finance so greater investment in these areas would more than likely get results.

[davemclaren]

you are the kind the SNP loves. Equating pride for your country with whether or not you are pro independence.

 

 

You could say the same for Unionists though.

[3fingersreid]

You would hopefully have invested this income into the country before it runs out but as I said earlier Scotland is an energy rich country and would be exporting electricity from wave and wind power. We appear to be good at making drinks, research and finance so greater investment in these areas would more than likely get results.

 

have you any idea just how expensive it is to get electricity generated by wind and waves to the most populated parts of the country

it could be argued that one of Scotlands greatest assets is its natural beauty, will we say that when there giant wind turbines dotted throughout the country side assuming the people who have to live near them dont object

 

making drinks you say so as long as we can ensure we make the rest of the world whisky and irn bru dependant we`ll be doing fine

 

research comes mainly from our universities which as I`ve pointed out previously they will not be able to charge people from the rest of the EU countries a fee as it would contravene euro law

[Moriarty]

It haven't said anything about pride for my country.

 

Yes you did.

 

This completely baffles me why folk don't want to take some control of their country away from England. Like I said previously, folk that would like to remain in the union appear to me to have no backbone and would prefer to scrounge of the english than fend for themselves.

 

The english are more likely to vote for their independence thus cutting off Scotland. Only when the oil runs out and we're on our knees though.

 

I can only put it down to a complete lack of self worth and pride. A bit strong but I can't really think of any other reason.

 

Personally I would rather not scrounge of the english to survive. I would prefer a lower standard of living and pride. Folk in europe don't starve anymore and we are an energy rich nation so we will have warmth.

 

What you are saying is that if you aren't a nat drone who will blindly vote for independence you can't have any pride in yourself or your country. That is simply bullshit.

[southside1874]

Yes you did.

 

 

 

What you are saying is that if you aren't a nat drone who will blindly vote for independence you can't have any pride in yourself or your country. That is simply bullshit.

It doesn't say country mate. There is a huge difference from self pride and national pride.

[Coco]

CON

 

The debate is riven with short termism. Sturgeon just appeared on the TV and suggested that Scotland can stand on its own feet because for 4 of the 5 years during the Brown bubble and before the financial crash there was a supposed surplus on the Scottish budget.

 

The issue is not about a few years, it is about the implications in historical timeframes.

[southside1874]

have you any idea just how expensive it is to get electricity generated by wind and waves to the most populated parts of the country

it could be argued that one of Scotlands greatest assets is its natural beauty, will we say that when there giant wind turbines dotted throughout the country side assuming the people who have to live near them dont object

 

making drinks you say so as long as we can ensure we make the rest of the world whisky and irn bru dependant we`ll be doing fine

 

research comes mainly from our universities which as I`ve pointed out previously they will not be able to charge people from the rest of the EU countries a fee as it would contravene euro law

 

I do believe we have large research facilities that are not part of the universities. The whisky industry currently generates over ?3 billion pounds in revenue and that doesn't include income tax from the workforce. It also doesn't include any revenue from other spirits and beer made in the country.

 

I don't really like getting bogged down with financial discussions regarding independence mate as IMO its a stupid argument. Every other country in the world manages to survive so how the hell do folk think Scotland couldn't. Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland all seem to manage very well and have some of the highest standards of living in the world.

[Ulysses]

The whisky industry currently generates over ?3 billion pounds in revenue and that doesn't include income tax from the workforce.

What does that have to do with anything?

[southside1874]

What does that have to do with anything?

I was responding to a question.

[leginten]

PRO: Scotland would finally be forced to take responsibility for itself instead of being a sleepy branch-line of a union which is neither cherished nor understood by the bulk of those who inhabit it.

 

CON: neither the populace nor the infrastructure bequeathed to us by the post-war torpor of this union we supposedly cannot survive without inspire a great deal of confidence in the prospects of an independent Scotland.

 

Still, nothing ventured...

[CJGJ]

Huge pro for independance

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16779891

 

Never liked her -- big mouthed weegie who lets face it, has her 'fun' times with her celeb chums -- too many to mention here.

[leginten]

Huge pro for independance

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-16779891

 

Never liked her -- big mouthed weegie who lets face it, has her 'fun' times with her celeb chums -- too many to mention here.

 

I'm pretty sure that's actually Colin Hendry in drag wearing a set of comedy breasts.

[GforGallo]

pro - my mother in law also says she will leave the country.

 

Con - ill still have my wife.

[B. Dynamite]

It's a lovely place to live because there's over 60 million people supporting us and the rest of the UK in taxes etc

 

We'd lose alot of investment if we withdrew from the Union

 

We'll still be recovering from a double dip recession probably into the early 2020's

 

Also take into consideration the energy costs with most coal power stations being decommissioned soon they'll need to replace them with stations of some sort

 

If they replace them with nuclear stations there's then the security issues that would be involved considering alex salmond wants to cut the forces to the bare bones

 

I don't think that Scotland would "continue to be ok"

 

Could you please provide some figures and links to the source that you're getting this information from?

 

As I understand it, Scotland has a higher GDP than the rest of the UK which doesn't really tie in with your assertion. As it stands for the last fiscal year, Scotland had revenues of ?45b so would be in surplus if oil was $100 a barrel. From where I stand it looks like the rest of the UK would be in deep doo doo should we become independent.

 

Also, where would the rest of the UK stand in Europe? They would have to re apply for membership like us, and after "call me" Dave's antics in Brussells the other month, they might find their path a bit rockier than ours.

[dobmisterdobster]

90% of her workforce are probably based in China and not Scotland.

[B. Dynamite]

Actually, it's worse than that. Nearly 50% of people would flip entirely from voting yes to voting no for the sake of ?1,000 a year, or ?2.74 a day.

 

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0128/1224310852757.html

 

 

With all that surplus loot to hand, and with a baseline of nearly 50% to start with, the Chinese could be on to a good thing here. They got Hong Kong from the British 15 years ago, now they could establish a strategic foothold in Europe for a relatively modest outlay.

 

The bidding starts at ?2.75 a day.

 

Could be worse I suppose...we could be Irish, perish the thought.

 

Should have stuck with the punt lol

[davemclaren]

Could be worse I suppose...we could be Irish, perish the thought.

 

Should have stuck with the punt lol

 

 

The Punt was tied to the pound sterling up to the early 70s iirc.

[Boab]

Huge pro for independance

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-16779891

 

Never liked her -- big mouthed weegie who lets face it, has her 'fun' times with her celeb chums -- too many to mention here.

 

 

Well its an aye for me also if it means that torn-faced individual leaves!

[desmondo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16779891

 

Could be a boob of a move

[kingantti1874]

This completely baffles me why folk don't want to take some control of their country away from England. Like I said previously, folk that would like to remain in the union appear to me to have no backbone and would prefer to scrounge of the english than fend for themselves.

 

The english are more likely to vote for their independence thus cutting off Scotland. Only when the oil runs out and we're on our knees though.

 

I can only put it down to a complete lack of self worth and pride. A bit strong but I can't really think of any other reason.

 

Personally I would rather not scrounge of the english to survive. I would prefer a lower standard of living and pride. Folk in europe don't starve anymore and we are an energy rich nation so we will have warmth.

 

What baffles me is that when countries all over the world are becoming closer politically an economically, the rapid expansion of the European union for example!! That so many in Scotland want to break the most successful and long lasting union of all... For what exactly? What exactly is the reason? What exactly are the benefis? Tangible ones? I there are any - let the SNP tell us why we should take this enormous gamble .What exactly would we get by integrating ourselves into the eurozone to being led by the nose countries further removed from our ideals and culture than those in London...

[southside1874]

What baffles me is that when countries all over the world are becoming closer politically an economically, the rapid expansion of the European union for example!! That so many in Scotland want to break the most successful and long lasting union of all... For what exactly? What exactly is the reason? What exactly are the benefis? Tangible ones? I there are any - let the SNP tell us why we should take this enormous gamble .What exactly would we get by integrating ourselves into the eurozone to being led by the nose countries further removed from our ideals and culture than those in London...

 

We are in the eurozone already so no change there. Just what countries are joining together? All countries in the eurozone collect their own taxes and spend them as they see fit. This is something Scotland doesn't and can't do. I just see a Scottish government doing more for the country than a Westminster government who increasingly make policies to benefit London. What suits London doesn't suit other parts of the UK.

 

There is an increase in englishness and the vast majority of folk in England want Scotland to go.

 

If you fail to see the benefits of looking after your own affairs rather than leaving them to someone else then I may find it difficult to convince you otherwise.

 

Going by your principle then Northern Ireland should be ruled from Dublin and not London. I'm sure you'll get the answer to that question if you go over there and ask some folk their thoughts on that

 

Have a look at Belgium?

[JamboInSouthsea]

We are in the eurozone already so no change there. Just what countries are joining together? All countries in the eurozone collect their own taxes and spend them as they see fit. This is something Scotland doesn't and can't do. I just see a Scottish government doing more for the country than a Westminster government who increasingly make policies to benefit London. What suits London doesn't suit other parts of the UK.

 

There is an increase in englishness and the vast majority of folk in England want Scotland to go.

 

If you fail to see the benefits of looking after your own affairs rather than leaving them to someone else then I may find it difficult to convince you otherwise.

 

Going by your principle then Northern Ireland should be ruled from Dublin and not London. I'm sure you'll get the answer to that question if you go over there and ask some folk their thoughts on that

 

Have a look at Belgium?

Indeed, their economy started improving through having a lack of central government (do they have one yet, it's been well over a year?) Regional areas gained more control and inward investment increased. And they still managed to be part of the NATO effort in Libya.

 

Smaller economic areas (pop. 5-6M) are more efficient to run...especially with their own currencies apparently, tho' I know nowt about economics except what I read in the brilliant Freakonomics books.

[Ulysses]

we could be Irish, perish the thought.

 

 

You couldn't, just as we couldn't be something we're not. In any case, why "perish the thought"? We wouldn't swap places with you. Why would we?

 

Yours to get right, yours to screw up. Or you can continue to let someone else make that call for you. That's your decision in a nutshell.

 

It won't happen though. If nearly 50% of the Scottish population reckon that a the price of seven or eight fags a day will make all the difference to their view of national identity, then you won't be voting for independence any time soon.

[Ulysses]

We are in the eurozone already so no change there.

 

[davemclaren]

If nearly 50% of the Scottish population reckon that a the price of seven or eight fags a day will make all the difference to their view of national identity, then you won't be voting for independence any time soon.

 

 

I think you might be correct.

[B. Dynamite]

You couldn't, just as we couldn't be something we're not. In any case, why "perish the thought"? We wouldn't swap places with you. Why would we?

 

Yours to get right, yours to screw up. Or you can continue to let someone else make that call for you. That's your decision in a nutshell.

 

It won't happen though. If nearly 50% of the Scottish population reckon that a the price of seven or eight fags a day will make all the difference to their view of national identity, then you won't be voting for independence any time soon.

 

No industry or natural resources, economy totally goosed with no prospects, part of the Euro..thats reason enough. Scotland is in a far stronger position than Eire could ever hope to be.

 

We'll be voting in two years time so not really that long is it. It'll be close and could go either way. I don't really see how you come to the conclusion that it categorically won't happen.

 

Strange to be so definitive on something that hasn't got anything to do with you, being Irish based in Dublin.

[Ulysses]

No industry or natural resources, economy totally goosed with no prospects, part of the Euro..thats reason enough. Scotland is in a far stronger position than Eire could ever hope to be.

 

I don't know where to begin with that - it would take an entire essay in itself to deal with the breathtakingly inaccurate assumptions it contains. But a little anecdote will help. The foreign holiday business in Ireland is in bother, and a lot of travel agencies have closed down or merged. Why? Because in 2012 only about 50% of the Irish population will take two holidays. Read into that what you will. I don't get your point about Scotland being in a stronger position than Ireland - firstly because it isn't, and secondly because it doesn't matter. We wouldn't swap places with you anyway. It's not about natural resources, tax receipts or the correct way to spell "whiskey". It's about whether you want to be independent of the UK or not. That's it, full stop. Don't bother with trivia, just cut to the heart of the debate - do you wanna do this or don't you?

 

 

 

I don't really see how you come to the conclusion that it categorically won't happen.

 

Because nearly 50% of your electorate are prepared to flip their vote for a few bob a day.

 

 

 

Strange to be so definitive on something that hasn't got anything to do with you, being Irish based in Dublin.

Why? I'm not American, French or British, but I was definitive that Hillary Clinton was the best choice for President in 2008, that it was better that Labour lose the last general election, and that Sarkozy should not be re-elected. It's all about opinions, sometimes right and sometimes wrong.

 

There was a time when for selfish reasons I was in favour of retaining the present constitutional arrangements in the UK. But things have moved on now, so I have no opinion one way or the other about what should happen. I do have an opinion about what will happen, and that opinion is that Scotland will not vote for independence in 2014. If the debate moves on I might change that opinion, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

[3fingersreid]

I don't really like getting bogged down with financial discussions regarding independence mate as IMO its a stupid argument.

 

 

 

Southy as much as you dont want to talk about the financial side of it your going to half to as at the end of the day that is what it will come down to ....can we or can we not afford to be an independant country?????

 

 

part of Great Britain or a more direct constitution towards Europe dominated by germany and france I know which way I`ll be voting

 

 

on a tangent slightly I asked my 15 year old is they had been discussing this subject in school at all given its importance and the fact she will be able to vote then, NO was the reply worth thinking about before giving them the vote

[southside1874]

I don't really like getting bogged down with financial discussions regarding independence mate as IMO its a stupid argument.

 

 

 

Southy as much as you dont want to talk about the financial side of it your going to half to as at the end of the day that is what it will come down to ....can we or can we not afford to be an independant country?????

 

 

part of Great Britain or a more direct constitution towards Europe dominated by germany and france I know which way I`ll be voting

 

 

on a tangent slightly I asked my 15 year old is they had been discussing this subject in school at all given its importance and the fact she will be able to vote then, NO was the reply worth thinking about before giving them the vote

 

It's a ridiculous argument to say a country like Scotland can't afford to run its own affairs. Its just complete nonsense. Scotland has an immense amount of natural resources and a relatively well educated population.

 

I can't get my head around this argument that we benefit by being run from England.

[jambos are go!]

I thought this was not to be a debate but a statement of pros and cons to avoid the usual slanging matches.

[3fingersreid]

but were not being run by england, we help to vote the MP`s to westminster -generally a labour vote in Scotland when its Great Britain`s election time- albeit this parliament we have been lumbered with a coalition led by a party that has one mp for us, but thats the voting system for you, that and the fact too many people cant get off their arses and go and vote , and we also have the Holyrood gov to give us our own parliament with certain powers

 

given that the n.irish have stormont and the welsh have their own parliament (appologies to the welsh I cant remember its name) it seems that the english should actually be voting as to whether or not its they who should be voting to leave the union, but they wont because they understand the importance of the union to the whole of the British isles and by that I include Eire ( a country that relied on the westminster gov to help keep it afloat when the rest of europe basically done fek all to help it out unlike what theyve done for greece and probably what they will do for us when / if we need help)

 

be careful what you wish for and as the unions will tell you united we stand divided we fall

[B. Dynamite]

I don't know where to begin with that - it would take an entire essay in itself to deal with the breathtakingly inaccurate assumptions it contains. But a little anecdote will help. The foreign holiday business in Ireland is in bother, and a lot of travel agencies have closed down or merged. Why? Because in 2012 only about 50% of the Irish population will take two holidays. Read into that what you will. I don't get your point about Scotland being in a stronger position than Ireland - firstly because it isn't, and secondly because it doesn't matter. We wouldn't swap places with you anyway. It's not about natural resources, tax receipts or the correct way to spell "whiskey". It's about whether you want to be independent of the UK or not. That's it, full stop. Don't bother with trivia, just cut to the heart of the debate - do you wanna do this or don't you?

 

Thats a whole lot of words saying nothing. Scotland's clearly in a better position than Eire.

 

Because nearly 50% of your electorate are prepared to flip their vote for a few bob a day.

 

Again your reasoning for being so definitive is flawed. That's your opinion but your logic doesn't stand up.

 

 

Why? I'm not American, French or British, but I was definitive that Hillary Clinton was the best choice for President in 2008, that it was better that Labour lose the last general election, and that Sarkozy should not be re-elected. It's all about opinions, sometimes right and sometimes wrong.

 

There was a time when for selfish reasons I was in favour of retaining the present constitutional arrangements in the UK. But things have moved on now, so I have no opinion one way or the other about what should happen. I do have an opinion about what will happen, and that opinion is that Scotland will not vote for independence in 2014. If the debate moves on I might change that opinion, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

Just words again not backed up by anything but your opinion.

[moogsy]

I won't vote for independence because my 'Scottish identity' simply isn't strong enough to warrant it. For example I don't feel I have anything more in common with someone from the Highlands than I do with say someone from Newcastle. In fact I probably have more in common with the latter.

 

There are several other countries in the world that are formed by unions of older Kingdoms with cultural/linguistic differences (Germany and Italy being 2 notable examples in Europe) but just like these countries, I feel we are stronger together.

[southside1874]

but were not being run by england, we help to vote the MP`s to westminster -generally a labour vote in Scotland when its Great Britain`s election time- albeit this parliament we have been lumbered with a coalition led by a party that has one mp for us, but thats the voting system for you, that and the fact too many people cant get off their arses and go and vote , and we also have the Holyrood gov to give us our own parliament with certain powers

 

given that the n.irish have stormont and the welsh have their own parliament (appologies to the welsh I cant remember its name) it seems that the english should actually be voting as to whether or not its they who should be voting to leave the union, but they wont because they understand the importance of the union to the whole of the British isles and by that I include Eire ( a country that relied on the westminster gov to help keep it afloat when the rest of europe basically done fek all to help it out unlike what theyve done for greece and probably what they will do for us when / if we need help)

 

be careful what you wish for and as the unions will tell you united we stand divided we fall

 

I don't like westminster politicians and going by the amount of folk who turn up to vote, its more than just me that doesn't like the sleazy corrupt ways that come from Westminster. I don't vote in UK politics as I feel it doesn't make any difference. UK politics are about these national parties and towing the party line. UK politics are about what suits the political parties and not the constituents. When we got a "scottish parliament" it was the same political parties that got power initially and this restricted the politicians in there because their policies are suited to UK politics.

 

I don't think you'll find any former Eastern European country that would wish to be back in the control of Moscow. I know for sure that I haven't met an Irishman who has said he wants to be run from London again. There are quite a few countries who wish they never entered into Euro though.

 

It all indicates that countries running their own affairs generally do better in the long term.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The Punt was tied to the pound sterling up to the early 70s iirc.

 

 

This is true but the value fluctuated quite a bit.

 

 

Ireland then decided to move around the D-mark....

[Problem Officer?]

I love how people go on about "when the oil runs out, what then" etc.

 

For starters, there's still probably another 50 years worth of it left - which is more than what has already been extracted.

 

And do people not realise that if new ways of the world operating aren't developed which don't depend heavily on oil then it's the entire planet that is going to be in a pickle, not just Scotland or the UK.

 

These "new ways of the world operating" are likely to be things like renewable energy - something which Scotland has the potential to be a world leader in.

 

Furthermore, people that trot out the line "any one with a brain would vote against independence" etc are just embarrassing. All it does is show your own stupidity, because you clearly don't really have anything worthwhile to discuss.

[Denny Crane]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16779891

 

Could be a boob of a move

 

A storm in a D-cup even.

 

Not the first time the close pal of Jack McConnell has threatened to do this. She did this prior to the 2007 election saying she'd be offski if the SNP won it. They did and she stayed. Besides, given that the majority of her factory workforce are based in China show's she not exactly one for "job creation" when it comes to her own backyard.

[2NaFish]

I won't vote for independence because my 'Scottish identity' simply isn't strong enough to warrant it. For example I don't feel I have anything more in common with someone from the Highlands than I do with say someone from Newcastle. In fact I probably have more in common with the latter.

 

There are several other countries in the world that are formed by unions of older Kingdoms with cultural/linguistic differences (Germany and Italy being 2 notable examples in Europe) but just like these countries, I feel we are stronger together.

 

just playing devils advocate, but it seems your first paragraph is contradicted by your second. It seems odd to be lukewarm about independence because there isn't any great social cohesion in Scotland and then to say union with England is viable - not desirable, but viable - because there are examples of other countries that have overcome differences (which is to ignore all the other countries that didn't and couldnt, and to take the concept of Nationhood in medieval Europe and then compare it with the modern concept of the nation, both of which are hugely different).

 

by all means vote as you see fit and I'm not doing this to show you up or change your opinion, it just strikes me as odd.