Independence PROS and CONS

[Brandt]

Was going to start a thread about this but though i'd hijack this thread with the question. If we became independent, would we really need an army? Apart from the history and the jobs it creates do/would we actually need one? If a country outside the UK invaded us, its unlikely England or any other country would sit back and watch. From a financial point of view, at a guesstomate, how much do you think it would cost per year to run the army, navy & air force. Probably a daft question i know but i'm just curious.

[Rick Grimes]

A "Scottish Broadcasting Corporation" - a CON, surely?

 

Why? Don't let the fact that Chick Young is employed by BBC Scotland colour your judgement. Are you saying that Scots are incapable of running a TV corporation?

 

We'd also still get the BBC - its not like the signal would be blocked at the border.

 

It's a sum of over ?1,000 a head that Westminster supports Scotland over the rest of the UK. Gone = CON.

 

Agreed that this is one of the key things that needs to be cleared up. Some say we're subsidy junkies, others say its the opposite.

 

 

A squabble over whether you'll have Flower of Scotland or Scotland the Brave as an anthem. CON

 

Really? That's a factor??

 

 

When it all goes PIIGS, an even greater national chip on the shoulder. CON

 

Not sure what you mean by this one - are you saying we'll start hating & blaming the EU for all our potential woes?

 

What about the possibility that we might manage to run ourselves in a more successful manner and avoid the PIIGS breakdown happening to us?

 

Absolutely no justification for the Old Firm upping sticks and becoming part of a "British" League. You're definitely stuck with them for ever. CON.

 

Again - really??

 

 

 

 

All that said, I'm still a floating voter on this, just open to persuasion.

[Ulysses]

PRO

 

You'd all stop wittering on about the subject.

 

 

CON

 

Within two weeks, you'd have the moderators here driven mad merging all the "let's chuck out the Weegies" threads.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Are there really people who will vote on this matter based on a list of pros and cons?

 

Surely it boils down to whether you think Scotland is better off making all its own decisions on every matter, for good or ill?

[dobmisterdobster]

A "Scottish Broadcasting Corporation" - a CON, surely?

 

Don't worry. It won't be 100% local content.

You'll still get to watch Eastenders, I'm sure SBC will import it.

[JamboInSouthsea]

PRO

 

60% of fish landed in the UK is in Scotland...don't know exact figures but we should be able to re-negotiate that which was given away to EU when we joined.

[dougal]

CON -Money raised by taxes throughout Britain which is then used to pay for unemployed and people on benefits (of which Scotland has more than it's fair share) would have to be raised solely by taxpayers in Scotland. This in turn would more than likely mean an increase in the percentage of tax paid and as such I would have less money going into my bank account each month. So on the basis of that, I'm out.

[southside1874]

you would be best to ask a member of a unionist party, i am undecided on where my vote will go, but if the pro independence groups can't show some figures that are backed up that there is a economic future in independence and that taxes will not shoot up to cover the cost of everything, then it will be a no vote from me.

 

Why don't you go and provide some figures that makes economic sense to stay in the union? Honestly mate, its not about economics, its about getting some belief in ourselves and we'll take it from there.

 

It never made economic sense when I left my mums house but when I look at the folk who still live with their mum, it made a lot of emotional sense. England will drop us like a sack when we offer them no return. Hagues recent comments regarding whisky proves their thoughts.

[Gizmo]

Are there really people who will vote on this matter based on a list of pros and cons?

 

Surely it boils down to whether you think Scotland is better off making all its own decisions on every matter, for good or ill?

 

??

 

This thread is designed to bring out the arguments for and against, and may well give food for thought if it raises a pertinent point one had not yet considered.

 

The decision is NOT just based on the idea(l) of self-determination - it would be no fun, for instance, to find ourselves in charge and starving to death (extreme but you get the jist). There is a lot to consider to reach a meaningful, well-considered position.

[Marvin]

Its extremely unlikely that would be the case

 

 

yes but an I said an extreme possibilty.

 

 

whatever happens I do think its a bad thing if Scotland went at it alone, but thats my opniion

[southside1874]

??

 

This thread is designed to bring out the arguments for and against, and may well give food for thought if it raises a pertinent point one had not yet considered.

 

The decision is NOT just based on the idea(l) of self-determination - it would be no fun, for instance, to find ourselves in charge and starving to death (extreme but you get the jist). There is a lot to consider to reach a meaningful, well-considered position.

\if you have to sit back and consider then stay with the bursd that beats feck out of you and don't bother considering it as your thoughts mean nothing.

 

Sorry to quote you on this wheatley but this argument is as stale as my ex bursds wedding dress. We won't starve and we will survive, we will actually put some effort in and get somewhere. The whole point is convincing the idiots that live in our country that we can actually fend for ourselves. There is no point in being independent if a whole load of folk want to be with England and are not wanting this. It wont work if that is the case.

 

What is your fear man. grow some baws and get on with it.

 

I'm going on Jeremy Kyle next week to ask if I can survive on my own. More to the point is can England survive on their own? Personally I hope they would and if they had trouble I would help as much as I could.

 

We wont have Salmond forever so make your choice now or forever hold your tongue. Worry about the yankee dollar that you can leave for you children or offer something that money can't buy. As it stands Scots folk are depressed. Can it or does it get any worse? The SNP have to negotiate this whole thing without the backing of the football authorities in this country. They have the largest clout of the folk in this country. They push for Scotland as a nation and when push comes to shove they sit and say nothing. They resist a tean GB at the olympics but when it comes down they say nowt. Plastic Scotsmen with the balls the size of tomato seeds

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

??

 

This thread is designed to bring out the arguments for and against, and may well give food for thought if it raises a pertinent point one had not yet considered.

 

The decision is NOT just based on the idea(l) of self-determination - it would be no fun, for instance, to find ourselves in charge and starving to death (extreme but you get the jist). There is a lot to consider to reach a meaningful, well-considered position.

I get that. My point is that this is a decision that should be driven by gut instinct more than anything else.

 

Take the Republic of Ireland for example. For many years post-dominion and independence status, it was poorer than Northern Ireland, let alone the UK as a whole. Was there any real political movement there to re-unify with the UK on an economic basis? No. Therefore, the point is that many of the economic arguments are moot. To vote because of a promised nirvana/wasteland is silly.

[ToadKiller Dog]

I get that. My point is that this is a decision that should be driven by gut instinct more than anything else.

 

Take the Republic of Ireland for example. For many years post-dominion and independence status, it was poorer than Northern Ireland, let alone the UK as a whole. Was there any real political movement there to re-unify with the UK on an economic basis? No. Therefore, the point is that many of the economic arguments are moot. To vote because of a promised nirvana/wasteland is silly.

 

I am of the same view as Geoff ,it should come down to gut instinct ,how your heart feels . I doubt Norwegians when they got there own nation or the many nations that broke away from there old colonial masters worried about finances .

 

Scotland wont become some Nirvana or will it become some 3rd world country for most of us it just means a change of where the head office is Edinburgh or Westminster . People will still invest in Scotland even English folk and Scots who can will invest in other nations .

To many Scare stories doing the rounds .

 

My gut says a vote for ,but am happt to accept the collective decision made in 2014 .

[Doctor FinnBarr]

PRO

 

You'd all stop wittering on about the subject.

 

 

CON

 

Within two weeks, you'd have the moderators here driven mad merging all the "let's chuck out the Weegies" threads.

 

 

[Deek]

A whole load of jobs that create nothing beyond the jobs themselves which can only be temporary.

 

Apologies for not having read all posts and, in advance, if I repeat anything already said. Viewpoint taken as a Scot living & working in London with no intention of relocating to Scotland - even less so if it were independent:

 

A "Scottish Broadcasting Corporation" - a CON, surely?

 

It's a sum of over ?1,000 a head that Westminster supports Scotland over the rest of the UK. Gone = CON.

 

A squabble over whether you'll have Flower of Scotland or Scotland the Brave as an anthem. CON

 

When it all goes PIIGS, an even greater national chip on the shoulder. CON

 

Absolutely no justification for the Old Firm upping sticks and becoming part of a "British" League. You're definitely stuck with them for ever. CON.

 

 

Be careful what you wish for, chaps.

 

 

London based post.

[jambopompey]

Why don't you go and provide some figures that makes economic sense to stay in the union? Honestly mate, its not about economics, its about getting some belief in ourselves and we'll take it from there.

 

It never made economic sense when I left my mums house but when I look at the folk who still live with their mum, it made a lot of emotional sense. England will drop us like a sack when we offer them no return. Hagues recent comments regarding whisky proves their thoughts.

 

 

we have the figures in front of us the now in what we pay in tax and where the money goes.

 

i have asked those who are 100% for independence to at least bring some figures to show how much they expect to raise through taxes and how they think it will be divided up between each sector, as i said earlier i think one of the tabloids done it with different yearly earnings (for the whole UK).

 

So as someone who is undecided on which way i will vote,should those wishing to make the change not provide facts and figures on how the economy will run.

[IMA MAROON]

CON: Our national broadcaster would be BBC Scotland....

 

I never wanted to bring that up but I fear it would be absolutely aweful with lots of Gaelic programmes and River city.

 

Come backs for Taggart, Take the high road and Monarch of the glen

 

Music programmes hosted by Eddi effin Reader with Runrig and Proclaimer types.

 

Absolute Hell.

[davemclaren]

Are there really people who will vote on this matter based on a list of pros and cons?

 

Surely it boils down to whether you think Scotland is better off making all its own decisions on every matter, for good or ill?

 

 

Got it in one Geoff.

[portobellojambo1]

Just been reading through the thread, out of interest. In terms of independence my mind is already made up, I don't need to listen to politicians, I don't need their input/spin/lies to make decisions, I will be voting no, and I hope the question reflects exactly what is on the table, i.e. Independence, Yes or No. The question with regard to additional power being moved to Edinburgh should have absolutely no part in such a referendum, as it is irrelevant in terms of what is to be decided, it is a question that can be asked after the results come in, as a separate issue.

 

Despite knowing how I will vote I have no intention of trying to influence anyone else, I would like to think everyone who will vote is adult enough to make such decisions, and won't base it on trivial matters, and are also adult enough to realise that if the vote was yes, and it turned out to be a disaster, there is no going back.

 

Interesting to read comments such as we Scots are all depressed at the moment, please exclude me from that. I have sufficient income at the moment to do as I want, there have been no decisions made by London which have harmed me in a manner which wouldn't have happened if made somewhere else. Also comments about London making decisions which have caused untold problems to Scotland in recent years, which wouldn't have happened if Scots were making the decisions, Scots politicians would make the right decisions for Scottish people.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, to name but three who have been shining examples in how to do things correctly politically (bunch of English shits aren't they, or maybe again they might possibly have something else in common).

 

There are many who I suspect haven't made up their mind, and from watching what has been debated on TV recently, are no nearer knowing, because truth is the case for independence, hasn't been put forward in terms of how it will affect us, in other ways beyond being totally dictated to by brilliant Scots politicians, who have shown how good they are (as per the above examples). I get the impression some believe we are going to go from living in a situation where we are dictated to by English politicians (again despite recent incumbents at No. 10 Downing Street being Scots in the main) to living in some Nirvana, where everything will be handed to us and never again will we want for anything, because Scots will be making the important decisions.

 

The SNP have failed to even deliver any facts on how we would manage financially, how x, y or z would be paid for, how anything would be paid for. All I hear them say on TV is "it is scaremongering". Well chaps, if it is scaremongering why not provide the truth to those who may be considering voting for you, and at the moment may be basing that support on the wrong reasons, and who may, sensibly, switch their allegiance when they discover they aren't going to better off, in fact could be a hell of a lot worse off.

 

I was up in Inverness last weekend for the game versus ICT, and got talking to a load of people at night about this. Going into the discussions my thoughts were this is an area where there wil probably be strong support for independence and they will try to convince me, how wrong was I. 9 out of 10 people were of the same opinion, the whole area, and the country, could be devastated if the link with the UK is broken. They were also worried about what impact the next internal division would have if independence went through, given their feelings that we are a very divided country, on more things than just politics, and that further division is inevitable once the SNP would no longer be required.

 

As I said I hope people vote how they will for the right reasons, but the information they may need to convince them to vote yes is not forthcoming, and making a decision without knowing the facts is a recipe for disaster.

[jambos are go!]

Are there really people who will vote on this matter based on a list of pros and cons?

 

Surely it boils down to whether you think Scotland is better off making all its own decisions on every matter, for good or ill?

I agree Heard an Irish guy on the Radio saying that the SNP lose credibility with Irish and other Nationalist when they dont campaign on self determination as the B all and end all of the debate.

[kingantti1874]

Forget self determination.. This boils down to whether will have more money n our pockets and a better standard of living . On both counts I'd say highly questionable if not downright unlikely - I feel as if I have more in common with our English brothers than I do with Glaswegians .. Where does it stop? Will Glasgow decide it wants to self determine? Anyway it a misleading question - we will have to fall in line with the euros one regardless..London or Brussels

 

London for me every day of the week

[Gizmo]

\if you have to sit back and consider then stay with the bursd that beats feck out of you and don't bother considering it as your thoughts mean nothing.

 

Sorry to quote you on this wheatley but this argument is as stale as my ex bursds wedding dress. We won't starve and we will survive, we will actually put some effort in and get somewhere. The whole point is convincing the idiots that live in our country that we can actually fend for ourselves. There is no point in being independent if a whole load of folk want to be with England and are not wanting this. It wont work if that is the case.

 

What is your fear man. grow some baws and get on with it.

 

I'm going on Jeremy Kyle next week to ask if I can survive on my own. More to the point is can England survive on their own? Personally I hope they would and if they had trouble I would help as much as I could.

 

We wont have Salmond forever so make your choice now or forever hold your tongue. Worry about the yankee dollar that you can leave for you children or offer something that money can't buy. As it stands Scots folk are depressed. Can it or does it get any worse? The SNP have to negotiate this whole thing without the backing of the football authorities in this country. They have the largest clout of the folk in this country. They push for Scotland as a nation and when push comes to shove they sit and say nothing. They resist a tean GB at the olympics but when it comes down they say nowt. Plastic Scotsmen with the balls the size of tomato seeds

 

In all honesty, this bunch of emotive but un-subtantive crap and insults is NOT what I will base my decision on! Nor will my decision be based on fear of going it alone or not "having baws".

 

I like the idea of us growing up as a country and raising our heads up and shedding off the dour acceptance that this is as good as it gets, the stultifying negativity that often shrouds our potential. But, that said, Scotland and it's people have still contributed to modern society massively disproportionately to our size, so is it right to blame the Union for holding us back or oppressing us?

 

Or would throwing off the shackles and having no-one to blame for our ills make us thrive and grow, with the national psyche getting a boost that turns us into a "can-do" nation?

 

Throw off the shackles of Westminster power which often takes decisions for the benefit of London and ignores the needs of Scotland, only to pass those powers back to a Brussels administration that is dominated by the needs and wishes of Germany-France and is even more remote to our country?

 

See, on a strictly emotional basis I WOULD vote for Independence but there is a LOT more to consider before I make my mind up. I need to hear reasons FOR from either side, because I know deep down what my preferred outcome is and it will only take a few resolutely negative/scaremongering missives from the Unionist parties to seal my position.

 

For such a huge question, I need to feel I've addressed it as completely as possible.

[H2]

Cons

- The competence level of MSP's - (Trams for example)

- Still require the support of the Bank of ENGLAND

 

Pros

- People will realise than Manchester United are an ENGLISH football team.

[3fingersreid]

questions I`d like an SNP supporter or politician to answer

 

as we have one of the longest coast lines in europe (if we include the islands) and as a previous poster has mentioned we contribute the bulk of fish landed in Great Britain and probably most importantly the oil reserves (which WILL run out) are off shore (really they are) how would we defend this without a navy?

 

do we rely on NATO? the thought of having an italian,belgian,dutch and god forbid a french force defending us doesnt really inspire me

 

 

when/if independence was voted in and we became part of the european union in our own right how would the universities mange to be funded as they wouldnt be allowed to charge european students a penny in accordance with euro law ?

 

as we would have to raise an army reguardless of what people think we would have to have one to be a member of NATO would the SNP introduce conscription and will the 16 and 17 year olds want this ? it might be a condition of the vote they are being offered

 

what currency would we use unlikely that the pound sterling could be used as we might have a conflict of exchange rates with the rest of great Britain so is everyone up for joining the Euro?

 

why doesnt Mr Salmond talk about the celtic tigers of Eire and Iceland anymore that used to be his main talking point

 

 

finally the main aim of the SNP is at present an independant Scotland if they succeed in this how would the party evolve would they on the victory find themselves splitting up into left wing right wing and centre policies party instead of leading on united front they would be instead fighting a civil war within their own party

 

 

my personal view is I`d be happy with more devo but NO to the full independence and one reason I cant see this happening is the biggest losers in this could be the Labour party as without a Scottish vote they would be very unlikely to ever get back into power at westminster the unionist vote will come out in numbers and the lib/dems dont want it my bet is the labour party will throw the big guns at this to sway the votes

 

what it does highlight is the need for at least one political biggy to appear at Holyrood to combat the undoubted talent of Salmond and at least allow the people of Scotland a chance to get a more balanced opinion on this subject

[ToadKiller Dog]

Which Nation with a credible Navy is likely to make Scotland an enemy ?

Has any Nations Navy attacked Norway given they look after there own coast with there own fleet .

I imagine we would work still with our Island neighbours in Naval matters such as the Baltic nations do as the Scandinavians do as Europe does .

 

I imagine the majority of us would be much the same off as we are now , We certainly would not build Paradise but equally we would not collapse into disarray or 3rd world status, Scotland is a highly educated Highly Skilled nation in our out of the Union .

Our expertise in the Oil Industry is exported every where around the world for example its more than just digging out oil , its knowlege in engineering parts to get that oil its highly skilled workers in that field . Where ever you find a Rig in the world you will find a Scottish worker .

 

To me decision to me is not about economics its about the Heart .

[3fingersreid]

Which Nation with a credible Navy is likely to make Scotland an enemy ?

Has any Nations Navy attacked Norway given they look after there own coast with there own fleet

 

 

 

so working on that then why did they spend a fekin fortune on the security in front of the Scottish parliament one of the main things a government must do is be able to protect its people and in todays world that is from terrorists an army navy and air-force IS necessary

 

but again lets just ignore it for the sake of independance

[ToadKiller Dog]

Which Nation with a credible Navy is likely to make Scotland an enemy ?

Has any Nations Navy attacked Norway given they look after there own coast with there own fleet

 

 

 

so working on that then why did they spend a fekin fortune on the security in front of the Scottish parliament one of the main things a government must do is be able to protect its people and in todays world that is from terrorists an army navy and air-force IS necessary

 

but again lets just ignore it for the sake of independance

 

Of course Scotland would have its own defence force , a proper rapid response combined forces set up rather like many other modern nations do , we would not need an aggressive Military set up as I dont expect Scotland would have any major enemies ,Scotland would need a defence force correct to the size and functions of defending our nation ,i would not see the need for foreign adventures .

 

I think the spending on security at Holyrood was unnecessary but politicians like to protect themselves .

 

Maybe an Independent Scotland would be at risk from Unionist terrorist groups ? .

[Phage]

PRO - by changing the benefits system to a very much less Appealing deal for work shy types we can effective chase them and their meth drinking pals down south to maintAin there quality of living

[Big D]

I am confused about this thread. Is it pros and cons of independence per se and the natural rights of defined communities to self determination as a nation state? Or is it only about Scotland and our supposed unique incapacity to look after ourselves as espoused by politicians whose main political allegiance lies furth of Scotland?

 

There have been so many new nations since the defeat of fascism that it seems pointless to debate the issue. It is estimated that 65% of the world's population live in these independent states. That's a hefty mandate that independence is the majority choice as the natural way for peoples to organise their societies.

So are we only talking about Scotland? If so, I suggest we all use social media and ask the billions of people we know in independent countries what they think the pros and cons of independence have been, and could be.

These ideas can then be brought to the debate. Unless of course you are in the afore-mentioned Scotland is unique cabal.

[jambos are go!]

I am confused about this thread. Is it pros and cons of independence per se and the natural rights of defined communities to self determination as a nation state? Or is it only about Scotland and our supposed unique incapacity to look after ourselves as espoused by politicians whose main political allegiance lies furth of Scotland?

 

There have been so many new nations since the defeat of fascism that it seems pointless to debate the issue

I. It is estimated that 65% of the world's population live in these independent states. That's a hefty mandate that independence is the majority choice as the natural way for peoples to organise their societies.

So are we only talking about Scotland? If so, I suggest we all use social media and ask the billions of people

 

 

we know in independent countries what they think the pros and cons of independence have been, and could be.

These ideas can then be brought to the debate. Unless of course you are in the afore-mentioned Scotland is unique cabal.

 

Its about Scotland.

[Big D]

Its about Scotland.

Disnae say so in the title. But thanks for your robust and succinct post. Since you replied to the post, fancy replying to the points, or are you still waiting instructions?

[jambopompey]

Disnae say so in the title. But thanks for your robust and succinct post. Since you replied to the post, fancy replying to the points, or are you still waiting instructions?

as i am aware you are a big supporter of the SNP and independence, could you at least and try to answer the question i have been asking on this thread, or is it one that can't be answered

[jambos are go!]

Disnae say so in the title. But thanks for your robust and succinct post. Since you replied to the post, fancy replying to the points, or are you still waiting instructions?

Don't get instructions. This is not supposed to be a debate but a list of pros and cons.

[Ulysses]

Heard an Irish guy on the Radio saying that the SNP lose credibility with Irish and other Nationalist when they dont campaign on self determination as the B all and end all of the debate.

 

Probably a Shinner. Worth listening to alright, eh?

[Ulysses]

This boils down to whether will have more money n our pockets and a better standard of living .

 

No it doesn't.

 

Do you think we asked whether independence would make us financially better off? Do you think Gandhi thought to himself "hey, yon independence might be worth a couple of extra rupees in the pocket of the man on the Calcutta omnibus"?

 

Did we **** as like?!?

 

There is only one PRO and only one CON.

 

 

PRO - You want to do it.

 

CON - You don't.

[kingantti1874]

No it doesn't.

 

Do you think we asked whether independence would make us financially better off? Do you think Gandhi thought to himself "hey, yon independence might be worth a couple of extra rupees in the pocket of the man on the Calcutta omnibus"?

 

Did we **** as like?!?

 

There is only one PRO and only one CON.

I

 

PRO - You want to do it.

 

CON - You don't.

 

Jesus you speak like we are an opressed people - hardly a suitable comparison... the majority of people in this country care about the money in their pocket and the factors which determine their immediate Standard of living - that's it...

[Gregory House M.D.]

Independence is a horrific idea

 

It would never work

 

Anyone actually voting for it doesn't have two braincells to rub together

 

Lovely new jobs all sounds brilliant until you realise that you'd soon be facing healthcare bills and massively inflated taxes

[Rand Paul's Ray Bans]

Independence is a horrific idea

 

It would never work

 

Anyone actually voting for it doesn't have two braincells to rub together

 

Lovely new jobs all sounds brilliant until you realise that you'd soon be facing healthcare bills and massively inflated taxes

 

Pretty sure the NHS wouldn't be dismantled in an independent Scotland...

 

Although I would tend to agree that taxes will probably be higher, but not massively inflated.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Jesus you speak like we are an opressed people - hardly a suitable comparison... the majority of people in this country care about the money in their pocket and the factors which determine their immediate Standard of living - that's it...

 

With that in mind though, if it was empirically proven that independence did improve the money in people's pockets but 10 years later you were worse off, how would you vote?

 

Independence is what you make it.

[Ulysses]

Jesus you speak like we are an opressed people - hardly a suitable comparison... the majority of people in this country care about the money in their pocket and the factors which determine their immediate Standard of living - that's it...

 

No, I don't. You are a people with a fault line in your politics about national identity, no more and no less. Some people want Scotland to be independent of the rest of the UK, others don't, and maybe there's a group who either don't mind or haven't made up their minds. In that situation, the only reason for saying yes is that you want it, and the only reason for saying no is that you don't.

 

[Ulysses]

With that in mind though, if it was empirically proven that independence did improve the money in people's pockets but 10 years later you were worse off, how would you vote?

 

Independence is what you make it.

 

I saw a report today about an opinion poll that asked about Scottish independence and being better off. Apparently, the poll showed that if independence would cause people to be ?500 a year worse off a big majority would vote no, but if it meant people would be ?500 a year better off then a big majority would vote yes.

 

Frankly, I hope that's not true. If someone would give up their Scottish identity or their British identity for ?1.37 a day, then they don't deserve either.

[JKBMod 1]

Let's keep the debate sensible, thanks.

[Rand Paul's Ray Bans]

[edited and quote removed]

 

Impossible to predict just now (through lack of details about the vision for post-independent Scotland) the tax revenues etc that the Government would be able to command, and if Scotland was to get any share of the North Sea Oil.

Therefore a before-and-after portrait cannot be accurately painted just now.

 

Just for reference, the net spend of the NHS in Scotland in the 2009/10 fiscal year was ?10.3 billion.

http://www.isdscotla...uk/isd/360.html

[portobellojambo1]

I saw a report today about an opinion poll that asked about Scottish independence and being better off. Apparently, the poll showed that if independence would cause people to be ?500 a year worse off a big majority would vote no, but if it meant people would be ?500 a year better off then a big majority would vote yes.

 

Frankly, I hope that's not true. If someone would give up their Scottish identity or their British identity for ?1.37 a day, then they don't deserve either.

 

The crux is though Uly that this appears to be the selling point that the pro independence group are using, that since day one we have been oppressed by those South of the border, and that If Scotland rids themselves of those South of the border they will be wealthier, although no data has been put together as proof of this. It appears to be a case for some that this is what the SNP say will happen so it will be the case.

 

I'm just hoping there aren't people out there stupid enough to believe such tripe, and base their decisions on such tripe, especially as if as seems more like the case it all went horribly wrong then the first port of call for a partial bail out would be the Bank of England, the nation who are by all accounts crushing Scots at the moment (if you believe such crap)..

[Gregory House M.D.]

[edited]

 

Impossible to predict just now (through lack of details about the vision for post-independent Scotland) the tax revenues etc that the Government would be able to command, and if Scotland was to get any share of the North Sea Oil.

Therefore a before-and-after portrait cannot be accurately painted just now.

 

Just for reference, the net spend of the NHS in Scotland in the 2009/10 fiscal year was ?10.3 billion.

http://www.isdscotla...uk/isd/360.html

 

Less than I'd imagined TBF but of course there are lots of other costs to consider

 

when the Falklands oil argument erupts it's hard to imagine America being quite as supportive of the UK

 

I can't see the rest of the UK being happy to part with any of the North Sea oil & gas considering this

 

Taking on RBS would be another complete drain

[browserchip]

The crux is though Uly that this appears to be the selling point that the pro independence group are using, that since day one we have been oppressed by those South of the border, and that If Scotland rids themselves of those South of the border they will be wealthier, although no data has been put together as proof of this. It appears to be a case for some that this is what the SNP say will happen so it will be the case.

 

I'm just hoping there aren't people out there stupid enough to believe such tripe, and base their decisions on such tripe, especially as if as seems more like the case it all went horribly wrong then the first port of call for a partial bail out would be the Bank of England, the nation who are by all accounts crushing Scots at the moment (if you believe such crap)..

 

... judging by your avatar your not really speaking impartially!

[ToadKiller Dog]

 

 

Yeah thats all we have to offer , Edinburgh is still a major financial centre even after the bank problems , Scotland one of the major players in medical research with companies like Welcome trust investing in such , Some of the best medical teaching schools in the world .

Our computer industry is just crap more so in game development .

Amazons recent massive investment in Scotland .

 

A High Skilled and Highly educated population ,we export our experience in engineering and the oil industry all over the world , the oil industry in scotland is more than just the black stuff.

The income from the whiskey industry and the Tourist indusrty which is being sneered at is nothing to laugh at both are sucsesful .

A decent place in the culture and arts . Authors such as Iain Banks ,Christopher Brookmyre ,Jk Rowling to name a few , some of the top stars in the film industry and music industry .

 

Respected University's with students from all over the world queuing to get places .

 

Yes there are social issues a plenty which need sorted and we can always do better ,maybe we will if we are responsible more for ourselves ,but it annoys me when people run down our country no matter if we are in or out of the Union . Scotland is a decent place to live .

Scotland will do ok and keep doing ok what ever way we vote .

 

There is a lot to be proud of in Scotland .

[Gregory House M.D.]

Yeah thats all we have to offer , Edinburgh is still a major financial centre even after the bank problems , Scotland one of the major players in medical research with companies like Welcome trust investing in such , Some of the best medical teaching schools in the world .

Our computer industry is just crap more so in game development .

Amazons recent massive investment in Scotland .

 

A High Skilled and Highly educated population ,we export our experience in engineering and the oil industry all over the world , the oil industry in scotland is more than just the black stuff.

The income from the whiskey industry and the Tourist indusrty which is being sneered at is nothing to laugh at both are sucsesful .

A decent place in the culture and arts . Authors such as Iain Banks ,Christopher Brookmyre ,Jk Rowling to name a few , some of the top stars in the film industry and music industry .

 

Respected University's with students from all over the world queuing to get places .

 

Yes there are social issues a plenty which need sorted and we can always do better ,maybe we will if we are responsible more for ourselves ,but it annoys me when people run down our country no matter if we are in or out of the Union . Scotland is a decent place to live .

Scotland will do ok and keep doing ok what ever way we vote .

 

There is a lot to be proud of in Scotland .

 

It's a lovely place to live because there's over 60 million people supporting us and the rest of the UK in taxes etc

 

We'd lose alot of investment if we withdrew from the Union

 

We'll still be recovering from a double dip recession probably into the early 2020's

 

Also take into consideration the energy costs with most coal power stations being decommissioned soon they'll need to replace them with stations of some sort

 

If they replace them with nuclear stations there's then the security issues that would be involved considering alex salmond wants to cut the forces to the bare bones

 

I don't think that Scotland would "continue to be ok"

[Ulysses]

The crux is though Uly that this appears to be the selling point that the pro independence group are using.....

Yes, but probably in rebuttal of an argument being put up by proponents of unionism that Scotland would not survive financially if it were independent.

 

It is telling. If the story I saw today is to be believed, about a third of Scottish voters would flip entirely from independence to the Union, or vice-versa, for ?2.74 a day. In another part of the world closer to my neck of the woods, they used to talk about loyalty to the crown --- and to the half-crown. It seems to me that you have a third of the population who have some sense of integrity about being British, another third with some sense of integrity about being Scottish, and another third who'd willingly sell their national identity to the highest bidder.

 

If the Chinese or the Americans walked in and offered ?2.74 a head, would you suddenly find a third of your population wanting to be Chinese or American?

[Ulysses]

If the Chinese or the Americans walked in and offered ?2.74 a head, would you suddenly find a third of your population wanting to be Chinese or American?

 

Actually, it's worse than that. Nearly 50% of people would flip entirely from voting yes to voting no for the sake of ?1,000 a year, or ?2.74 a day.

 

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0128/1224310852757.html

 

 

With all that surplus loot to hand, and with a baseline of nearly 50% to start with, the Chinese could be on to a good thing here. They got Hong Kong from the British 15 years ago, now they could establish a strategic foothold in Europe for a relatively modest outlay.

 

The bidding starts at ?2.75 a day.