Another major blow to SNP tax plans

[Therapist]

One has to conclude that Salmond and his colleagues are serially incompetent as they lurch from one crisis to another. Do they do any research or analysis before announcing their policies, or are they so up their own bottoms they just charge into things thinking all will be well?

 

Fortunately the staff of HM Treasury are not so slipshod.

 

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Treasury-blow-to-Salmond39s-tax.3960703.jp

[Boris]

Or it could be a politically calculated risk by the Nationalists to highlight yet again, as they would see it, London's rule over a supposedly independent Scottish devolved parliament? i.e. going against the "will of the people"?

 

I think it will bite them (the Nats) on the bum, however it must also ask the question of the Lib Dems as they advocated something similar.

 

It is interesting nonetheless.

[Therapist]

Or it could be a politically calculated risk by the Nationalists to highlight yet again, as they would see it, London's rule over a supposedly independent Scottish devolved parliament?

 

If that were the case, I'm sure Salmond and Co would have warned the electorate in advance that they want to do something but the big bad Treasury won't let them. This way they would have captured the moral/political high ground.

 

It's abundantly clear they have not done their homework before announcing their tax plans, and have been caught with their tartan troosers doon.

[doctor jambo]

And relax, another unfair tax kicked into touch

Local income tax my sphincter

Another tax the easy targets scheme from the lefties when everything could so easily be resolved by living within their means adn stopping gross fiscal stupidity on the part of the councils and government

They should concentrate on benefits, fraud and tax fraud

If everyone who was working paid their dues the place would be much better

The cash in hand merchants etc

[Strachsuit]

One has to conclude that Salmond and his colleagues are serially incompetent as they lurch from one crisis to another. Do they do any research or analysis before announcing their policies, or are they so up their own bottoms they just charge into things thinking all will be well?

 

Fortunately the staff of HM Treasury are not so slipshod.

 

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Treasury-blow-to-Salmond39s-tax.3960703.jp

 

They charge into things. AR**HOLES.

[Boris]

If that were the case, I'm sure Salmond and Co would have warned the electorate in advance that they want to do something but the big bad Treasury won't let them. This way they would have captured the moral/political high ground.

 

It's abundantly clear they have not done their homework before announcing their tax plans, and have been caught with their tartan troosers doon.

 

I think you may be right, but wait for the "It's London not letting us dae it" response.

 

Tartan troosers doon or kilts hitched up?

[Therapist]

It just goes to show that SNP voters are brainless goons who are attracted to the romantic/emotional pull of independence but do not have the common sense to suss out they're voting for a party that does not know its arse from its elbow.

[I P Knightley]

And relax, another unfair tax kicked into touch

Local income tax my sphincter

Another tax the easy targets scheme from the lefties when everything could so easily be resolved by living within their means adn stopping gross fiscal stupidity on the part of the councils and government

They should concentrate on benefits, fraud and tax fraud

If everyone who was working paid their dues the place would be much better

The cash in hand merchants etc

 

Agree wholeheartedly on the last couple of points.

 

We've got folk beefing about the removal of the 10% tax band while the effect is miniscule compared to the 'lost' income from all the shysters, cowboys and offshore dodgers.

[I P Knightley]

It just goes to show that SNP voters are brainless goons who are attracted to the romantic/emotional pull of independence but do not have the common sense to suss out they're voting for a party that does not know its arse from its elbow.

 

http://www.assotron.com/arse-or-elbow/

 

Could be used as an entrance exam - although I fear membership may drop off a cliff

[Boaby Ewing]

How can a 'local income tax' be centralised and the same regardless of region etc. - isn't that just an er... income tax?

[Coco]

How can a 'local income tax' be centralised and the same regardless of region etc. - isn't that just an er... income tax?

 

Yes it is.

 

Particularly when 80% or so of Local Government budgets come from central funding anyway.

 

The squandering of public money should be the first target before a change to how revenue is collected, particularly at local Government level.

 

Why don't we see any political parties campaigning on the basis of how much they would reduce the Council Tax by?

[John Findlay]

Shock horror. A government wants to tax the people. A new one on me that.

 

Trying to rake my brain here but, cant think of a government that hasnt thought of ways to squeeze more pennies out of it's electorate.

 

Nope. Wigs, Liberals, Conservatives and Unionsts, Labour and SNP. Nope all the same taxing me in one way or the other. I'm shocked. Truly shocked.

 

 

 

John

[Craig_]

Thanks, but I'll wait until I get the facts from a quality newspaper, not that New Labour spurtle the Scotsman...

[doctor jambo]

Yes it is.

 

Particularly when 80% or so of Local Government budgets come from central funding anyway.

 

The squandering of public money should be the first target before a change to how revenue is collected, particularly at local Government level.

 

Why don't we see any political parties campaigning on the basis of how much they would reduce the Council Tax by?

 

Its all a question of priorities

The funding gaps could all be filled really easily

If you have a "substance misuse problem" your benfits are increased by ?70 per week

Ayrshire and Arran have 2500 on methadone and on the waiting list

this equates to ?175000 per week, or ?9.1 million per annum

add in the alcoholics, of which there are more, then multiply that across the country an voila, huge spending hole filled in

[Therapist]

Thanks, but I'll wait until I get the facts from a quality newspaper, not that New Labour spurtle the Scotsman...

 

Sticking your head in the sand won't make the SNP's failings go away.

[Therapist]

Thanks, but I'll wait until I get the facts from a quality newspaper, not that New Labour spurtle the Scotsman...

 

 

How about the BBC?

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7338194.stm

[Walter Kidd]

Go Therapist go Therapist.

 

SNP = Scotlands National Disgrace.

[Therapist]

SNP = Scotlands National Disgrace.

 

It's hilarious, but not surprising, to watch their ill thought out flagship policies unravel. And their measured intellectual response? "We're being bullied".

[Walter Kidd]

It's hilarious, but not surprising, to watch their ill thought out flagship policies unravel. And their measured intellectual response? "We're being bullied".

 

Policy on the hoof as my cousin who is a top of the tree civil servant down Leith way would say. They are at their absolute wits end at the Executive with all of Salmond's mad and incoherent budgetary reconcilliations.

 

"Their numbers are made up on the back of beer mat".

 

Her words not mine.

[Boab Mugabe]

What's even more humiliating for Scottish politics is the only real challenge to Teletubby Salmond and the shortbread tin nationalist goons is a mob led by Wendy *****ing Alexander.

 

I can't believe folk still reckon that Independence represents Scotland's best move long term. Economic calculations on the back of a beer mat indeed.

[Walter Kidd]

Their one thousand police officers one was a topper.

 

They in fact have lost police officers this year - retiral, resignations etc which was budgeted for under Joke McConnell.

 

I hate to say this as my old fellah would spin in his grave, but if more people voted Conservative and Unionist in Scotland we may, just may get a decent devolved parliament.

 

Labour is still feeling the arctic chill over their sectarian recruitment policy of the late 80's early 90's.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Their other flagship bridge toll policy has done a great job of costing millions to implement, millions to maintain - police to patrol high winds etc- and also brought much of the surrounding area to a standstill on a regular basis

 

I despise the SNP, they have just bodged everything up and the sooner they are punted back out the better - p.s preferably after they decide to right off every student loan

[Craig_]

Sticking your head in the sand won't make the SNP's failings go away.

 

Far from it. Just prefer to judge issues on their merit rather than toeing a party line.

[Nelly Terraces]

Salmond is a total slug, and a political opportunist par excellence. If he doesn't manage to turn this round to the old moronic ' Aww naw, it's they awfy English doon in Westminster' line and getting away with it to a gullible public I'd be surprised.

 

SNP - Cocks. By the time they're booted out the damage will already have been done. If they stay in power long enough then I really fear for this countrys future. It's scary.

[Sherlock]

Their other flagship bridge toll policy has done a great job of costing millions to implement, millions to maintain - police to patrol high winds etc- and also brought much of the surrounding area to a standstill on a regular basis

 

I despise the SNP, they have just bodged everything up and the sooner they are punted back out the better - p.s preferably after they decide to right off every student loan

 

So it was the abolition of the bridge tolls that have caused the high winds?

 

Someone should tell the Green Party, they're always banging on about global warming being the cause of this mad weather.

[Boab Mugabe]

So it was the abolition of the bridge tolls that have caused the high winds?

 

Someone should tell the Green Party, they're always banging on about global warming being the cause of this mad weather.

 

It's some coincidence that the far left/greens around the world managed to find one topic that suits every one of their silly niche policies down to the ground under the umbrella of 'global warming'.

 

Yes, some coincidence indeed...

[felix]

Let Local Councils set and collect the tax - legality problem over.

 

Furthermore, if Wendy Alexander is questioning the legality of the proposed Local Income Tax then it's probably kosher.

[CompleteIdiot]

It's some coincidence that the far left/greens around the world managed to find one topic that suits every one of their silly niche policies down to the ground under the umbrella of 'global warming'.

 

Yes, some coincidence indeed...

 

No coincidence. The modern Greens are watermelons: Green on the outside, red on the inside.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-socialism

[Therapist]

What's even more humiliating for Scottish politics is the only real challenge to Teletubby Salmond and the shortbread tin nationalist goons is a mob led by Wendy *****ing Alexander.

 

Sad but true.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

So it was the abolition of the bridge tolls that have caused the high winds?

 

Someone should tell the Green Party, they're always banging on about global warming being the cause of this mad weather.

 

 

No but its their fault that the authorities have no control over the traffic and have to resort to closing the bridge and having police officers waving cars over individually etc in high winds now which results in the entire surrounding area becoming a car park as well as several police officers and police vehicles being wasted

[Sherlock]

No but its their fault that the authorities have no control over the traffic and have to resort to closing the bridge and having police officers waving cars over individually etc in high winds now which results in the entire surrounding area becoming a car park as well as several police officers and police vehicles being wasted

 

I take it you don't actually travel over the bridge everyday.

 

I do. The traffic now is no better or worse now than it was back with the tolls.

 

Can you actually explain why the abolition of tolls is responsible for the high winds.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

I take it you don't actually travel over the bridge everyday.

 

I do. The traffic now is no better or worse now than it was back with the tolls.

 

Can you actually explain why the abolition of tolls is responsible for the high winds.

 

 

Actually I do and day to day the traffic isnt bad, but as soon as the weather is remotely windy its pandomonium and the tolls are responsible for exactly what I just said

 

Its now far harder and time consuming to stop the lorries going across and because its easier to do it they chance it more meaning traffic as a whole suffers

 

The abolition is not saving anyone money and wont for a long long time

 

If they had to remove the tolls they should have kept the booths for traffic control but that wouldnt have been as good a PR statement

[Sherlock]

Actually I do and day to day the traffic isnt bad, but as soon as the weather is remotely windy its pandomonium and the tolls are responsible for exactly what I just said

 

Its now far harder and time consuming to stop the lorries going across and because its easier to do it they chance it more meaning traffic as a whole suffers

 

The abolition is not saving anyone money and wont for a long long time

 

If they had to remove the tolls they should have kept the booths for traffic control but that wouldnt have been as good a PR statement

 

I actually agree with you *shivers* regarding the keeping of the tollbooths but what has their scrapping got to do with the high winds?

 

Whenever the winds reach dangerous levels, all high sided vehicles are and have always been banned from crossing and should travel via Kincardine. Whenever this is the case, it is broadcast on the roadside electronic notice boards and the radio. Lorries have always continued to 'sneak' across the bridge though.

 

Due to the recent extremely high winds and unseasonal weather the authorities have decided to take a hard line on those lorries that flout the safety notice.

 

Nothing to do with the abolition of tolls.

[Ulysses]

I actually agree with you *shivers* regarding the keeping of the tollbooths but what has their scrapping got to do with the high winds?

 

Less tolls = more driving = more CO2 = more global warming = more high winds.

 

Easy peasy.

 

[davemclaren]

Actually I do and day to day the traffic isnt bad, but as soon as the weather is remotely windy its pandomonium and the tolls are responsible for exactly what I just said

 

Its now far harder and time consuming to stop the lorries going across and because its easier to do it they chance it more meaning traffic as a whole suffers

 

The abolition is not saving anyone money and wont for a long long time

 

If they had to remove the tolls they should have kept the booths for traffic control but that wouldnt have been as good a PR statement

 

The tolls are only on one side though? Perhaps all bridges should have booths whether tolled or not?

 

ANyway, the 'local' income tax may well be in breach of the Scotland Act but why did it take the Treasury ( and Labour ) over a year to find out? Looks like they've been trawling for methods to prevent it and stumbled across this.

 

As others say, Alex will just use it to tarnish the UK government as bullies anyway. Labour really need to get their tactics sorted if they want to get wee ALex out and themselves back in.

[Sherlock]

Less tolls = more driving = more CO2 = more global warming = more high winds.

 

Easy peasy.

 

 

Bollocks

[Boris]

Less tolls = more driving = more CO2 = more global warming = more high winds.

 

Easy peasy.

 

 

Personally I think it's to do with cows farting...

[felix]

Personally I think it's to do with cows farting...

 

Don't think that's the major blow to the SNP's plans which the OP refers.

[Ulysses]

Personally I think it's to do with cows farting...

 

But I don't think tolls have any impact on the extent to which the cows fart.

[upthehill]

Why don't we see any political parties campaigning on the basis of how much they would reduce the Council Tax by?

 

The Conservatives do campaign on that basis. At least for OAP households, as they say it's unfair for them to pay full Council Tax.

 

But they also know that a "local" income tax is grossly unfair, disingenuos and unworkable

[Ron Atkinsons Microphone]

Politics is gay.

[CompleteIdiot]

The Conservatives do campaign on that basis. At least for OAP households, as they say it's unfair for them to pay full Council Tax.

 

But they also know that a "local" income tax is grossly unfair, disingenuos and unworkable

 

The Tories campaign on the basis that rich people should pay less tax. The Council Tax results in the rich paying less tax. The Tories are, therefore, behind it.

[Nelly Terraces]

Personally I think it's to do with cows farting...

 

No need to talk about Wendy Alexander like that Boris!

[Coco]

The Conservatives do campaign on that basis. At least for OAP households, as they say it's unfair for them to pay full Council Tax.

 

But they also know that a "local" income tax is grossly unfair, disingenuos and unworkable

 

The local Conservatives in Edinburgh are a laughing stock.

 

Did they not see the result of the congestion tax referendum? Would be pushing at an open door if they merely stood on a reversal platform of pretty much everything Labour have done in Edinburgh in the past 20 years. But instead they support the trams, support congestion creation, support parking tax increases, support increases in the size of local Government etc etc

[Boris]

But I don't think tolls have any impact on the extent to which the cows fart.

 

Ah, but For Whom the Bull Tolls........

[Ribble]

It just goes to show that SNP voters are brainless goons who are attracted to the romantic/emotional pull of independence but do not have the common sense to suss out they're voting for a party that does not know its arse from its elbow.

 

Really does amaze me the number of people that do vote SNP for that very reason! For SNP of 2008 and full independance with the promise of riches from the north sea oil, see the pre-union Scottish Parliament of 1695 and the Darien scheme !!

[Big D]

Slightly unbalanced thread so far, so here's some questions which it would be nice to have answered without descent into vitriolic personal character assassination.

1: Why would the SNP be the Party of government in an independent Scotland?

2: Why are the Scots, uniquely in the world, the only people incapable of running their own Country?

3: Apart from invading other sovereign countries, and acting as landlords to US nuclear armaments, what else can the UK do that Scotland can't do for herself?

I really am interested to see what the pat unionist answers are to these questions, then I may be able to fully join this so far fairly sterile debate on the future funding of growth in the scottish economy for the benefit of everyone who wishes to be Scottish.

[Boris]

Slightly unbalanced thread so far, so here's some questions which it would be nice to have answered without descent into vitriolic personal character assassination.

1: Why would the SNP be the Party of government in an independent Scotland?

2: Why are the Scots, uniquely in the world, the only people incapable of running their own Country?

3: Apart from invading other sovereign countries, and acting as landlords to US nuclear armaments, what else can the UK do that Scotland can't do for herself?

I really am interested to see what the pat unionist answers are to these questions, then I may be able to fully join this so far fairly sterile debate on the future funding of growth in the scottish economy for the benefit of everyone who wishes to be Scottish.

 

1. They wouldn't be neccessarily.

2. Scotland is a very fractured country with many micro-cultures.

3. Arguably the UK's global power was secured through the work of Scots, English, Irish and Welsh so i suppose you could argue that as a an island if we all pull together we make a better deal for ourselves. Certainly prior to the Union Scotland was economically speaking rather poor.

 

You also seem to equate being Scottish and being a Nationalist/advocate of independence as mutually exclusive. I may have misinterpreted what you wrote, however there are many people who are happy to be both British and Scottish.

 

One could also argue the other way and move on further from Scotland and ask why Edinburgh shouldn't declare UDI and set itself up as a City State a la Monaco. We wouldn't have to subsidise Glasgow for a start!

[southlondonjambo]

Really does amaze me the number of people that do vote SNP for that very reason! For SNP of 2008 and full independance with the promise of riches from the north sea oil, see the pre-union Scottish Parliament of 1695 and the Darien scheme !!

 

Indeed, though I'm even more amazed at the number of people who feel Scots and Scotland occupy a unique position in the world in that it is too poor, weak, and stupid to look after itself and requires another country to help it, because if it didn't the sky would fall in and independence would bring about nuclear, ecological and financial armageddon, alongside of course the obligatory increased terror threat from al-Qaeda....

[Therapist]

alongside of course the obligatory increased terror threat from al-Qaeda....

 

That is not a threat - Salmond would argue that we have Smeato to protect us.