Guest Just Came To Say Kello Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 why is it that when you come on here to discuss a hearts related subject, you end up being accused of being a hibs supporter by some t0ss pot? have you ever taken two helicopter rides out of Baghdad, 3 flights and a 4 hour drive to see Hearts playing in the Champions League qualifier even when we were 3-0 down from the first leg. Have you ever driven over 1000 miles from Istanbul airport to Hungary because your flight was cancelled to watch hearts play some diddy team? I can't come to every match but i can bet you one thing I have covered as many miles as anyone else watching Hearts. So HOBO i ain't.... Simmer petal. You live in the arse end of nowhere and occasionally make it back for the big games - we get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I find the fact that some almost seem to want this to happen really sad. We won't go bust and we won't get relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo in iraq Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 Simmer petal. You live in the arse end of nowhere and occasionally make it back for the big games - we get it. just don't see why i should be accused of being a hobo for expressing an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo in iraq Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 I doubt he has, since we were only 2-1 down after the first leg of the champions lge qualifier you are right enough we were 2-1 down...in fact i made it to athens but only arrived 10 minutes before the end of the game, but make no mistake I did that trip. fyi it was baghdad to basrah to Afrijan(kuwait) by helicopter, kuwait to bahrain to cairo to athens by plane... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnybob72 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Anyone know what Airdie's crowds were before / after they went bust, bought Clydebank and changed the name? That may give an indication as to what could happen to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyblack'sshot Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 We never had 10,000 fans at the vast majority of SPL games from 98-04. You're delusional if you think we'll get it in the fizzy pop leagues. Hibs - HIBS! - had an average attendance of over 10,000 when they were in the 1st division in 98/99 - higher than some of their SPL ave attendances! I know many Hibs fans who yearn for those days of a winning team. We'd be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I must admit that i have perhaps always been one of the fans who have had their heads stuck in the sand for the last few years. yes, I enjoyed the cup win and the ventures into europe, but always knew at the back of my mind that we were at the mercy of one mans whims. Reading today's quotes from Romanov I now really fear for the first time for the future of the club. Selling the club for 50m will never happen and the only way Romanov will conceivably make any money back is by running the club into administration where as a priority creditor he will be the first to be paid back. That being the case, it may be time for the fans of this club to conceivably consider that we me need to start again. I know there have been several threads about a potential AFC Heart of Midlothian. But I what are the practicalities of such a move? Firstly, do we set up in the Junior leagues which are undoubtably a better standard than the non-league seniors. Clydebank have done this and command a fair sized following to the extent that they have very ambitious plans for a new stadium and senior ambitions. If we did this what sort of support do you think we will be able to command? SHould we ground share or commit to buying our own ground. Put it this way if say 20% of the season ticket holders commit their season ticket money to the new venture, it would raise near on a million pound in capital before tax. I am also sure that between various sponsors, media interest and investors we could raise another million which would give us a good financial start and with council backing I am sure we could build a decent set up to help us grow back. Yes it will take some time, but the SFA will not be able to ignore a 'non-league' team getting even a few thousand every week. Scottish football needs us, they need a team getting 12-15k fans every week, so I think we would be allowed back in with 3 years. I for one would be happy to be involved in this new venture, but we cannot leave it too late. If Hearts disappear then the window of opportunity will be small. The longer it is left the more supporters will find Asda as their day out on saturday instead of the football. Im tempted to agree with you mate With the ?50 mill price tag quoted enticing lots to say he has no intention of going anywhere and is pricng it to put people off , i think it may be about selling the club as assets to recoup as much as possible and then walk,,,or,,,,,,,,,, administration and the first priority debtor option you mention. The one thing i cant recocile mentally at mo is why he paid the HMRC, so i live in hope i think we will be building a new club and if we are still in SPL next season i will be a very releived man. all in all a very sad moment when you resign yourself to this, but like you in think my ostrich impersonation is over!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley_ Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Anyone know what Airdie's crowds were before / after they went bust, bought Clydebank and changed the name? That may give an indication as to what could happen to us. Airdrie United are playing at a lower level (second division) that Airdrieonians ever did. Their crowds are definitely lower now but I guess they would increase if they were challenging for promotion to the SPL. In England, Wimbledon, Chester and Halifax have all had good crowds when they've reformed in the non-leagues. They've all had higher crowds than at least some of the Conference teams even when they've been playing further down the pyramid. I think we would get good crowds as a reformed club because we would be fighting to get the club back to where we were before we folded. I have no doubts that if we got back into the third division then we'd be able to rise back to the SPL in a short period of time. Also, good to see HGW to be proven to be posting nonsense again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Airdrie United are playing at a lower level (second division) that Airdrieonians ever did. Their crowds are definitely lower now but I guess they would increase if they were challenging for promotion to the SPL. In England, Wimbledon, Chester and Halifax have all had good crowds when they've reformed in the non-leagues. They've all had higher crowds than at least some of the Conference teams even when they've been playing further down the pyramid. I think we would get good crowds as a reformed club because we would be fighting to get the club back to where we were before we folded. I have no doubts that if we got back into the third division then we'd be able to rise back to the SPL in a short period of time. Also, good to see HGW to be proven to be posting nonsense again. I really haven't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley_ Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 We never had 10,000 fans at the vast majority of SPL games from 98-04. You're delusional if you think we'll get it in the fizzy pop leagues. In the 7 seasons between 97/98 and 04/05 we had crowds of less than 10,000 on a total of 8 occasions, and the vast majority were comfortably above 10,000. I don't remember thousands of away fans at most games in those days. I really haven't... Unless I'm forgetting the thousands of fans that Motherwell, St. Mirren etc. were bring to Tynie each season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Unless I'm forgetting the thousands of fans that Motherwell, St. Mirren etc. were bring to Tynie each season. Has he provided proof? I find it hard to believe we were averaging 12,000 after at least 3 15,000+ attendances and not getting gates below 10,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I find the fact that some almost seem to want this to happen really sad. We won't go bust and we won't get relegated. I don't want it to happen, but I don't fear it. All I'm saying is that it could happen and if it does then we have to face up to it, and look at the positives that would yield a new direction for the club with no debt. I would prefer a rich consortium came in with mega millions to buy out Vlad but by discussing all possible outcomes here we can at least attempt to prepare ourselves for what will become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I don't want it to happen, but I don't fear it. All I'm saying is that it could happen and if it does then we have to face up to it, and look at the positives that would yield a new direction for the club with no debt. I would prefer a rich consortium came in with mega millions to buy out Vlad but by discussing all possible outcomes here we can at least attempt to prepare ourselves for what will become. Where are this new club playing it's home matches then BB? The misty eyed romanticism begins to lose it's sheen when you realise it would probably be either Livingston, Murrayfield or Easter Road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Where are this new club playing it's home matches then BB? The misty eyed romanticism begins to lose it's sheen when you realise it would probably be either Livingston, Murrayfield or Easter Road. I don't think your question relates to me because I haven't used "misty eyed romanticism". All I've done is suggested one possible eventuality. I'm not promoting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I don't think your question relates to me because I haven't used "misty eyed romanticism". All I've done is suggested one possible eventuality. I'm not promoting it. Fair enough. A 'new' Hearts is a last resort and would probably be used by many fans as an opportune moment to stop following Scottish football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Has he provided proof? I find it hard to believe we were averaging 12,000 after at least 3 15,000+ attendances and not getting gates below 10,000 12,000 now? Thought you were arguing it was below 10,000 Also, over 19 games a season, 6 x 15,000 + attendances don't really put all that much a dent on average attendances when the other 13 are between 10 and 14,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Fair enough. A 'new' Hearts is a last resort and would probably be used by many fans as an opportune moment to stop following Scottish football. It is a last resort and I hope I've conveyed that through my earlier posts. I am merely suggesting that a. it's a possibility and b, there are some positives to be gained from it, should it occur. But to confirm, I hope that it doesn't happen and that we are bought over by a cash rich consortium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo in iraq Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 It is a last resort and I hope I've conveyed that through my earlier posts. I am merely suggesting that a. it's a possibility and b, there are some positives to be gained from it, should it occur. But to confirm, I hope that it doesn't happen and that we are bought over by a cash rich consortium. Couldn't put it better BB, I would just hate to wake up one morning to read that we have a winding up order without a back up plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I really haven't... Your claim that we had fewer than 10,000 fans at the vast majority of games between 1998 and 2004 (when in fact we averaged one game a season with fewer than 10,000 in Tynecastle) was clearly nonsense. But I agree with you that it is unrealistic to think we'd average 10,000 as we came back up the leagues. It might just happen if we stormed up the leagues thrashing everything in sight, but in fact every game would be a cup tie for the opposition, and we are familiar with our recent recorrd against lower league sides in those. I think we'd get there in time (but see Dundee) , but would struggle at times. And you don't have to theorise about what that would do to our crowds. We were down to less than 6000 average the last time we were in the lower leagues, and that was while competing at the top of the first division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 If you look at Partick, Dundee, Livingston, Inverness, Falkirk etc then the rule of thumb is SFL crowds are at about 50% - 60% of their SPL levels but some below 40% depending on various factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgie rd eh11 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I honestly think you'd be pleasantly surprised HGW, fans tend to stick together in times like that and adopt a siege mentality. Considering the negativity surrounding the club over the last 7/8 years the Hearts support has stayed very loyal. Everybody wants to have a pop at us but numbers have remained relatively good, much less of a drop off % wise than either celtic or rangers would have experienced under the same circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo in iraq Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 If you look at Partick, Dundee, Livingston, Inverness, Falkirk etc then the rule of thumb is SFL crowds are at about 50% - 60% of their SPL levels but some below 40% depending on various factors. yes but the difference with these clubs to Hearts is that on any given 'big' match for the above clubs it is not uncommon for an old firm crowd or even Hearts or Aberdeen on a good day to take enough supporters to at least match if not outnumber the home support. At Tynecastle this will never be the case. You also have a situation with Livingston, Falkirk and Inverness that there is a high proportion of 'new' migrant supporters who have moved from else where and really do not have a die hard attitude to their local club. these guys will go to spl game but not much else. I would be confident Hearts would get 8-9k average in third division , 9-10k average in second and first . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 yes but the difference with these clubs to Hearts is that on any given 'big' match for the above clubs it is not uncommon for an old firm crowd or even Hearts or Aberdeen on a good day to take enough supporters to at least match if not outnumber the home support. At Tynecastle this will never be the case. You also have a situation with Livingston, Falkirk and Inverness that there is a high proportion of 'new' migrant supporters who have moved from else where and really do not have a die hard attitude to their local club. these guys will go to spl game but not much else. I would be confident Hearts would get 8-9k average in third division , 9-10k average in second and first . Who says HMFC part 2 would even be allowed into the league? Far easier to buy East Stirlingshire and take their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Who says HMFC part 2 would even be allowed into the league? Far easier to buy East Stirlingshire and take their place. I'd hate that if it happened, what right would this new club have to erase a smaller club? I would hate to see 137 years of history obliterated, a new club might bare a similar name but it wouldn't be Heart of Midlothian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Who says HMFC part 2 would even be allowed into the league? Far easier to buy East Stirlingshire and take their place. Again it depends on whether the clubgoes into administration or liquidation. Liquidation would result in us starting from the lowest league however administration could see us stay in the SPL dependant on the points deduction and timing etc. Buying into another teamis not a option for me as we would pretty much lose our identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I should have pointed out in the above that it wouldn't be as Heart of Midlothian Football Club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I'd hate that if it happened, what right would this new club have to erase a smaller club? I would hate to see 137 years of history obliterated, a new club might bare a similar name but it wouldn't be Heart of Midlothian. Yep that would be almost a worse case scenario for me (obviously worst case is total destruction of HMFC and nothing replacing it). Don't think we have the right to take over any other club just because of who we are either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I'd hate that if it happened, what right would this new club have to erase a smaller club? I would hate to see 137 years of history obliterated, a new club might bare a similar name but it wouldn't be Heart of Midlothian. History wouldn't be erased, would jut be a new chapter in the glorious history of HMFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckauskas Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 History wouldn't be erased, would jut be a new chapter in the glorious history of HMFC New club = No history. It's a very simple premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 If Vlad closed Hearts tomorrow and a 'new' Hearts were immediately formed out of it, debt free by someone else then some people would see it as 'new club: no history' whereas others would simply see it as a new chapter in a 137-year old history of 'Heart of Midlothian'. I have no doubt the club would lose a good few fans because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 New club = No history. It's a very simple premise. So, given this has happened before, the club should have 1905 on our badge instead of 1874.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyblack'sshot Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 New club = No history. It's a very simple premise. Yes, strictly speaking the club as it is now known would not exist and the name would be slightly different. However, it would be totally clear to anyone who cares about this sort of thing that the new club is the same club reformed due to financial difficulties. I'm sure Airdrie fans still call their club Airdrie and don't suddenly throw away all their old videos and programmes because the club reformed under a new name. I almost want it to happen so this new Hearts wins the cup within a few years and still has a better cup record than Hibs! Almost but not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 To be honest....end of HMFC in her current form would mean the end of my interest in Scottish football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyblack'sshot Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 yes but the difference with these clubs to Hearts is that on any given 'big' match for the above clubs it is not uncommon for an old firm crowd or even Hearts or Aberdeen on a good day to take enough supporters to at least match if not outnumber the home support. At Tynecastle this will never be the case. You also have a situation with Livingston, Falkirk and Inverness that there is a high proportion of 'new' migrant supporters who have moved from else where and really do not have a die hard attitude to their local club. these guys will go to spl game but not much else. I would be confident Hearts would get 8-9k average in third division , 9-10k average in second and first . Hearts prices would be cheaper so neutral fans might just make the right choice! Let's face it - the fare on offer at Easter Road wouldn't be much better and will cost a lot more. This is all conjecture, but the smart thing to do if the worst happened and Hearts started in Div 3 is the club would focus on making the club a family club with good ticket deals and a pleasant match day experience to build up a good support base again for when we'd end up back in the SPL. The worst thing they could do would be to charge high ticket prices in an effort to still pay decent wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 So, given this has happened before, the club should have 1905 on our badge instead of 1874.. If the club rises from the ashes as Hearts FC or something similar then there isn't really going to be an issue. I think what some are saying is if we tried to be a bit clever and not start from the bottom effectively buying into another club thus merging, that when things become somewhat harder to take. I could pretty much accept anything as long as we had Hearts or Heart of Midlothian etc in the title. Anything without this wording would be the end of the road for me & as others have said, the end of me supporting Scottish football. I don't think it'll come to this however I really don't know what is going to happen to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 If the club rises from the ashes as Hearts FC or something similar then there isn't really going to be an issue. I think what some are saying is if we tried to be a bit clever and not start from the bottom effectively buying into another club thus merging, that when things become somewhat harder to take. I could pretty much accept anything as long as we had Hearts or Heart of Midlothian etc in the title. Anything without this wording would be the end of the road for me & as others have said, the end of me supporting Scottish football. I don't think it'll come to this however I really don't know what is going to happen to us. I certainly don't think many will disagree with that, we're not going to turn up and support a team called east Stirling or Edinburgh united, but if we took over east Stirling, who then rented Tynecastle , played in a maroon strip and changed there name to hearts fc then I honestly don't see the problem... Hearts FC rose like a Phoenix to dominate Scottish football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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