A 'NEW' Hearts

[jambo in iraq]

I must admit that i have perhaps always been one of the fans who have had their heads stuck in the sand for the last few years. yes, I enjoyed the cup win and the ventures into europe, but always knew at the back of my mind that we were at the mercy of one mans whims. Reading today's quotes from Romanov I now really fear for the first time for the future of the club. Selling the club for 50m will never happen and the only way Romanov will conceivably make any money back is by running the club into administration where as a priority creditor he will be the first to be paid back.

 

That being the case, it may be time for the fans of this club to conceivably consider that we me need to start again. I know there have been several threads about a potential AFC Heart of Midlothian. But I what are the practicalities of such a move?

 

Firstly, do we set up in the Junior leagues which are undoubtably a better standard than the non-league seniors. Clydebank have done this and command a fair sized following to the extent that they have very ambitious plans for a new stadium and senior ambitions. If we did this what sort of support do you think we will be able to command? SHould we ground share or commit to buying our own ground. Put it this way if say 20% of the season ticket holders commit their season ticket money to the new venture, it would raise near on a million pound in capital before tax. I am also sure that between various sponsors, media interest and investors we could raise another million which would give us a good financial start and with council backing I am sure we could build a decent set up to help us grow back. Yes it will take some time, but the SFA will not be able to ignore a 'non-league' team getting even a few thousand every week. Scottish football needs us, they need a team getting 12-15k fans every week, so I think we would be allowed back in with 3 years.

 

I for one would be happy to be involved in this new venture, but we cannot leave it too late. If Hearts disappear then the window of opportunity will be small. The longer it is left the more supporters will find Asda as their day out on saturday instead of the football.

[Wolfstar]

I must admit that i have perhaps always been one of the fans who have had their heads stuck in the sand for the last few years. yes, I enjoyed the cup win and the ventures into europe, but always knew at the back of my mind that we were at the mercy of one mans whims. Reading today's quotes from Romanov I now really fear for the first time for the future of the club. Selling the club for 50m will never happen and the only way Romanov will conceivably make any money back is by running the club into administration where as a priority creditor he will be the first to be paid back.

 

That being the case, it may be time for the fans of this club to conceivably consider that we me need to start again. I know there have been several threads about a potential AFC Heart of Midlothian. But I what are the practicalities of such a move?

 

Firstly, do we set up in the Junior leagues which are undoubtably a better standard than the non-league seniors. Clydebank have done this and command a fair sized following to the extent that they have very ambitious plans for a new stadium and senior ambitions. If we did this what sort of support do you think we will be able to command? SHould we ground share or commit to buying our own ground. Put it this way if say 20% of the season ticket holders commit their season ticket money to the new venture, it would raise near on a million pound in capital before tax. I am also sure that between various sponsors, media interest and investors we could raise another million which would give us a good financial start and with council backing I am sure we could build a decent set up to help us grow back. Yes it will take some time, but the SFA will not be able to ignore a 'non-league' team getting even a few thousand every week. Scottish football needs us, they need a team getting 12-15k fans every week, so I think we would be allowed back in with 3 years.

 

I for one would be happy to be involved in this new venture, but we cannot leave it too late. If Hearts disappear then the window of opportunity will be small. The longer it is left the more supporters will find Asda as their day out on saturday instead of the football.

 

hahahahahaha aye great plan columbo. Hearts will be an SPL club for years to come. someone will take over the club and vlad will own the stadium/debt or something along they lines.

 

If we go bust a new club is formed overnight, rents murryfield and takes back the SPL position, sky would have it for edinburgh derbys and games v rangers/celtic being the bigger draw away from the old firm game.

[Daydream Believer]

Now would be exactly the wrong time to start anything like this IMO. Any buyer will be counting the loyalty of the fans among the goodwill of the club. If anything, we should all be encouraging friends and family to come along to home games and show that there exists a lot of potential for future income.

[Riddley Walker]

I think you need to slow down. It's not looking great atm, but i think you're getting way ahead of yourself.

 

People need to stop putting so much emphasis on the 50m figure that Romanov has spouted. It is natural for him to publicly massively overstate the value of the club as a negotiation technique.

 

It also didn't seem like a serious comment. We know what he's like and a lot of the time he doesn't give serious answers to things i.e Champions league winners in 3 years etc.

 

So calm down.

 

And if we did go completely bust, a space would open up because of our demise so we would get a direct entry to the 3rd division, just like Airdrie United or Livingston.

[Craigieboy]

If Hearts go bust, I'll kill myself.

 

But they won't.

[Vlad-Stupid]

If Hearts go bust, I'll kill myself.

 

But they won't.

 

Bookmarked :greggy:

[Snake Plissken]

I truly despair at the mindset of some members of this forum.

[Craigieboy]

Bookmarked :greggy:

[kingantti1874]

Jambo in Iraq - so he puts hearts in administration and he will be the priority creditor and te first to be paid back... With what? Who is going to pay him back? Answers on a postcard...

 

He won't get ?50 million.. A million at most and he will retain the stadium and we will let it from him until we decide we can afford to move elsewhere or vlad decides property values have increased sufficiently at whih point he will sell it an we will move to murrayfield which is the scario which woul have happened 8 years ago anyway...

[Boris]

Jambo in Iraq - so he puts hearts in administration and he will be the priority creditor and te first to be paid back... With what? Who is going to pay him back? Answers on a postcard...

 

He won't get ?50 million.. A million at most and he will retain the stadium and we will let it from him until we decide we can afford to move elsewhere or vlad decides property values have increased sufficiently at whih point he will sell it an we will move to murrayfield which is the scario which woul have happened 8 years ago anyway...

 

This.

 

Given who Hearts FC owe their debt to the doomsday scenario is VR simply folds us and sells the land Tynie os on to get back some of the monies he is due.

 

Admin isn't really an option, well not to me anyway but I'll add that day to day finance and company accounting/auditing/law aren't really my strong points!

[jambo in iraq]

Jambo in Iraq - so he puts hearts in administration and he will be the priority creditor and te first to be paid back... With what? Who is going to pay him back? Answers on a postcard...

 

He won't get ?50 million.. A million at most and he will retain the stadium and we will let it from him until we decide we can afford to move elsewhere or vlad decides property values have increased sufficiently at whih point he will sell it an we will move to murrayfield which is the scario which woul have happened 8 years ago anyway...

 

In answer to the above the land will be sold as will the players to pay off the creditors...standard process of administration the assets will be stripped to the bone. Clubs like Livi and Dundee have only come out of administration because they don't own their own grounds.

 

I'm not advocating we ever do this whilst Hearts are still alive, but what i am saying is that we should be prepared for any eventual outcome. We cannot just presume that somebody or some group is going to step in and do a white knight act.

 

Yes, the 50m might have been an off the cuff remark, but lets look at the history of Romanov's business dealings. He is not exactly the easiest person to deal with, and believe me if he doesn't get what he wants he will care not one single jot if the club folds. Don't presume anyone will want to take over a club worth 25m with a debt of 35m. Their ain't no rich arabs out their who would touch Scottish football. Even Rangers with their money making potential could only attract some dodgy invest with a track record as stained as Jack the Ripper.

 

Like i say, I don't want this to happen. The thought of hearts playing anything other than spl football doesn't fill me with excitement.

[Problem Officer?]

[Rudolf's Mate]

This.

 

Given who Hearts FC owe their debt to the doomsday scenario is VR simply folds us and sells the land Tynie os on to get back some of the monies he is due.

 

Admin isn't really an option, well not to me anyway but I'll add that day to day finance and company accounting/auditing/law aren't really my strong points!

 

Thing is he puts us into admin then he no longer calls the shots as it's the administrator. He wouldn't like this and the only way I see this happening is if he really runs us into the ground racking up external debts.

[Guest]

If Hearts go bust, I'll kill myself.

 

 

[Buffalo Bill]

I think it's a very real possibility but I don't fear it. There will always be a Heart of Midlothian FC.

 

 

Starting a new era with zero debt must be viewed as a positive, if we lose a uninterested owner and ?35M worth of debt.

 

 

Middlesborough FC effectively folded in 1986. The new owners drew up a new mandate and began again, debt free. Look at the badge below.

 

 

 

 

It was still 'Boro. Same town, same fans, same ugly old bird. In time, they reassumed their club's full historical identity.

 

 

 

 

At worst, we'd get relegated to the Third Division. With our crowds, we'd be back in the SPL in three years.

 

 

You might not agree with the OP but don't slate the guy for bringing the subject to the table. This is a discussion forum.

 

 

We might get a cash buyer, we might not. Either way, a new era is about to take place. I can't wait.

 

 

[PTBCAL]

I think it's a very real possibility but I don't fear it. There will always be a Heart of Midlothian FC.

 

 

Starting a new era with zero debt must be viewed as a positive, if we lose a uninterested owner and ?35M worth of debt.

 

 

Middlesborough FC effectively folded in 1986. The new owners drew up a new mandate and began again, debt free. Look at the badge below.

 

 

 

 

It was still 'Boro. Same town, same fans, same ugly old bird. In time, they reassumed their club's full historical identity.

 

 

 

 

At worst, we'd get relegated to the Third Division. With our crowds, we'd be back in the SPL in three years.

 

 

You might not agree with the OP but don't slate the guy for bringing the subject to the table. This is a discussion forum.

 

 

We might get a cash buyer, we might not. Either way, a new era is about to take place. I can't wait.

 

 

 

Top class BB.

 

If it means a few years of away trips to Peterhead, Annan, Elign, Forfar..... bring it on.!!!!

[Goz]

I think it's a very real possibility but I don't fear it. There will always be a Heart of Midlothian FC.

 

 

Starting a new era with zero debt must be viewed as a positive, if we lose a uninterested owner and ?35M worth of debt.

 

 

Middlesborough FC effectively folded in 1986. The new owners drew up a new mandate and began again, debt free. Look at the badge below.

 

 

 

 

It was still 'Boro. Same town, same fans, same ugly old bird. In time, they reassumed their club's full historical identity.

 

 

 

 

At worst, we'd get relegated to the Third Division. With our crowds, we'd be back in the SPL in three years.

 

 

You might not agree with the OP but don't slate the guy for bringing the subject to the table. This is a discussion forum.

 

 

We might get a cash buyer, we might not. Either way, a new era is about to take place. I can't wait.

 

 

 

Good post.

[Boomstick]

I think it's a very real possibility but I don't fear it. There will always be a Heart of Midlothian FC.

 

 

Starting a new era with zero debt must be viewed as a positive, if we lose a uninterested owner and ?35M worth of debt.

 

 

Middlesborough FC effectively folded in 1986. The new owners drew up a new mandate and began again, debt free. Look at the badge below.

 

 

 

 

It was still 'Boro. Same town, same fans, same ugly old bird. In time, they reassumed their club's full historical identity.

 

 

 

 

At worst, we'd get relegated to the Third Division. With our crowds, we'd be back in the SPL in three years.

 

 

You might not agree with the OP but don't slate the guy for bringing the subject to the table. This is a discussion forum.

 

 

We might get a cash buyer, we might not. Either way, a new era is about to take place. I can't wait.

 

 

 

Excellent post. Did they break rules for this or is it totally kosher?

[Buffalo Bill]

Excellent post. Did they break rules for this or is it totally kosher?

 

 

It was more liquidation than manipulation. Steve Gibson came in and had little choice but to re-start the club.

 

 

They got relegated, but bounced back.

[Boomstick]

It was more liquidation than manipulation. Steve Gibson came in and had little choice but to re-start the club.

 

 

They got relegated, but bounced back.

 

Would we get relegated to the 3rd or put out completely though. I think it would be great to do a Boro but what would stop us doing a Gretna?

[Buffalo Bill]

Would we get relegated to the 3rd or put out completely though. I think it would be great to do a Boro but what would stop us doing a Gretna?

 

 

We have 12-15,000 regular fans with at least double that figure waiting for cup finals etc. Gretna had some farmers.

 

 

There is no way we'd get put out of the game. Third Division at worst.

 

 

In fact, if the same happened to Rangers, I would bet that they wouldn't even get relegated.

[Midloth_Iain]

To back up BB's valid Middlesboro argument, take the following example of Napoli.

 

From Wiki :

 

By August 2004, Napoli was declared bankrupt with debts estimated up to ?70 million. To secure football in the city, film producer Aurelio De Laurentiis refounded the club under the name Napoli Soccer, as they were not allowed to use their old name.

 

Despite the fact that Napoli were playing in such a low division, they retained higher average attendances than most of the Serie A clubs, breaking the Serie C attendance record with 51,000 at one game. The following season, they secured promotion to Serie B and De Laurentiis bought back the club's history, restoring its name to Societ? Sportiva Calcio Napoli in May 2006. After just one season back in Serie B, they were promoted on the final day, along with fellow sleeping giants Genoa. Napoli finished the season placed 8th in the Serie A, enough to secure a place in the Intertoto Cup third round. That same year, Napoli also defeated five major teams, Milan, Internazionale, Juventus, Fiorentina, and Udinese.

 

Now, 7 years on, they are defeating teams like Man City in The Champions League. Anyone know a wealthy film producer ?

[rossthejambo]

To back up BB's valid Middlesboro argument, take the following example of Napoli.

 

From Wiki :

 

By August 2004, Napoli was declared bankrupt with debts estimated up to ?70 million. To secure football in the city, film producer Aurelio De Laurentiis refounded the club under the name Napoli Soccer, as they were not allowed to use their old name.

 

Despite the fact that Napoli were playing in such a low division, they retained higher average attendances than most of the Serie A clubs, breaking the Serie C attendance record with 51,000 at one game. The following season, they secured promotion to Serie B and De Laurentiis bought back the club's history, restoring its name to Societ? Sportiva Calcio Napoli in May 2006. After just one season back in Serie B, they were promoted on the final day, along with fellow sleeping giants Genoa. Napoli finished the season placed 8th in the Serie A, enough to secure a place in the Intertoto Cup third round. That same year, Napoli also defeated five major teams, Milan, Internazionale, Juventus, Fiorentina, and Udinese.

 

Now, 7 years on, they are defeating teams like Man City in The Champions League. Anyone know a wealthy film producer ?

 

Not a producer but Sir Sean's from the Burgh. Not sure what his football affiliations are though

[WeeToonJambo]

Not a producer but Sir Sean's from the Burgh. Not sure what his football affiliations are though

Celtic, I believe.

[rossthejambo]

Celtic, I believe.

 

Would appear my impeccable judge of character strikes again, always knew there was something I didn't like about him

[Gregory House M.D.]

Yeah, small stumbling block being the Napoli fans are among the most loyal in world football. Do you really think we'd retain over 10,000 fans playing Elgin and the likes?

[Buffalo Bill]

To back up BB's valid Middlesboro argument, take the following example of Napoli.

 

From Wiki :

 

By August 2004, Napoli was declared bankrupt with debts estimated up to ?70 million. To secure football in the city, film producer Aurelio De Laurentiis refounded the club under the name Napoli Soccer, as they were not allowed to use their old name.

 

Despite the fact that Napoli were playing in such a low division, they retained higher average attendances than most of the Serie A clubs, breaking the Serie C attendance record with 51,000 at one game. The following season, they secured promotion to Serie B and De Laurentiis bought back the club's history, restoring its name to Societ? Sportiva Calcio Napoli in May 2006. After just one season back in Serie B, they were promoted on the final day, along with fellow sleeping giants Genoa. Napoli finished the season placed 8th in the Serie A, enough to secure a place in the Intertoto Cup third round. That same year, Napoli also defeated five major teams, Milan, Internazionale, Juventus, Fiorentina, and Udinese.

 

Now, 7 years on, they are defeating teams like Man City in The Champions League. Anyone know a wealthy film producer ?

 

Furthermore, Aurelio De Laurentiis is the nephew of Dino De Laurentiis, producer of the movie Hannibal, which features a scene showing an Italian cop watching the 2000 FA Cup semi final between Aston Villa and Bolton. Playing on loan for Bolton that day was Hearts defender Paul Ritchie, so surely there is some Hearts-related merit in the Napoli story.

[Boomstick]

Yeah, small stumbling block being the Napoli fans are among the most loyal in world football. Do you really think we'd retain over 10,000 fans playing Elgin and the likes?

 

Well I'd be there.

[Buffalo Bill]

Yeah, small stumbling block being the Napoli fans are among the most loyal in world football. Do you really think we'd retain over 10,000 fans playing Elgin and the likes?

 

 

It would only be for one season then we'd move up to the next league.

 

 

Crowd levels would depend on whether the club is going somewhere. Hibs fans had a good feeling under Alex Mcleish in the First Division 98/99, and actually improved upon some of their Premier League crowds of 97/98.

[kingantti1874]

Yeah, small stumbling block being the Napoli fans are among the most loyal in world football. Do you really think we'd retain over 10,000 fans playing Elgin and the likes?

 

Along as tickets were priced appropriately for the division we are in and the standard of players at our disposal very easily

[rossthejambo]

Yeah, small stumbling block being the Napoli fans are among the most loyal in world football. Do you really think we'd retain over 10,000 fans playing Elgin and the likes?

 

If Hearts are winning games there will be over 10,000 at games.

 

Aren't you going to be making the trip to Old Trafford every other week anyway?

 

[yabadabadoo1874again]

hahahahahaha aye great plan columbo. Hearts will be an SPL club for years to come. someone will take over the club and vlad will own the stadium/debt or something along they lines.

 

If we go bust a new club is formed overnight, rents murryfield and takes back the SPL position, sky would have it for edinburgh derbys and games v rangers/celtic being the bigger draw away from the old firm game.

 

Have a bash at solving the last paragraph of OP.... !!!???

[yabadabadoo1874again]

Along as tickets were priced appropriately for the division we are in and the standard of players at our disposal very easily

 

This junior prices .... I would be there + whole family its a cultural thing to do on Saturday and it is as it stands far far far too expensive...if nothing is done in 15 years there will be nothing to talk about !!

[Gregory House M.D.]

We never had 10,000 fans at the vast majority of SPL games from 98-04.

 

You're delusional if you think we'll get it in the fizzy pop leagues.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Top class BB.

 

If it means a few years of away trips to Peterhead, Annan, Elign, Forfar..... bring it on.!!!!

New watering holes, I'm excited!

 

We never had 10,000 fans at the vast majority of SPL games from 98-04.

 

You're delusional if you think we'll get it in the fizzy pop leagues.

Have a look at Hearts average crowd sizes and rethink that statement.

[Gregory House M.D.]

New watering holes, I'm excited!

 

 

Have a look at Hearts average crowd sizes and rethink that statement.

 

 

Average being bumped up by Celtic, Rangers and Hibs matches. Also take into account the amount that were away fans...

[vintage1874]

I think it's a very real possibility but I don't fear it. There will always be a Heart of Midlothian FC.

 

 

 

We might get a cash buyer, we might not. Either way, a new era is about to take place. I can't wait.

 

 

Your line above is a good one. A new era...

 

 

To be rid of VR and working our way through the leagues in has an appeal perhaps even more so than getting a new owner with no money and scrapping to stay in the spl each season. We might even win a few things along the way

Its important the club is well run for once and the new Hearts remain debt free.

 

 

 

I don't think Scottish football could afford to let us go given the size of our support. Our away support was fantastic in the yoyo years and would be so again. Loyalty points needed every other week

 

I'm used to hearts in the top league, but if we did go down the leagues my support would remain the same.

 

 

Top class BB.

 

If it means a few years of away trips to Peterhead, Annan, Elign, Forfar..... bring it on.!!!!

 

It would certainly make doing all the scottish grounds watching the Hearts easier

[Guest]

We never had 10,000 fans at the vast majority of SPL games from 98-04.

 

You're delusional if you think we'll get it in the fizzy pop leagues.

Although Hibs got about those figures when they won the first division so if the teams winning then the fans will turn up.

[Gregory House M.D.]

Although Hibs got about those figures when they won the first division so if the teams winning then the fans will turn up.

Yeah but we finished 3rd two years on the and never saw any improvement...

 

I'd say around 5-8,000 fans would stick to it regularly in the 3rd division and would slowly rise the further up we got.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Average being bumped up by Celtic, Rangers and Hibs matches. Also take into account the amount that were away fans...

I honestly think you'd be pleasantly surprised HGW, fans tend to stick together in times like that and adopt a siege mentality.

[Guest]

Yeah but we finished 3rd two years on the and never saw any improvement...

 

I'd say around 5-8,000 fans would stick to it regularly in the 3rd division and would slowly rise the further up we got.

Probably not too wide of the mark

[Francis Albert]

Average being bumped up by Celtic, Rangers and Hibs matches. Also take into account the amount that were away fans...

 

In the 7 seasons between 97/98 and 04/05 we had crowds of less than 10,000 on a total of 8 occasions, and the vast majority were comfortably above 10,000. I don't remember thousands of away fans at most games in those days.

[Francis Albert]

Anyone know why Middlesbrough and Napoli and (going back further) Hibs, who are not the original entity, are given continuity of their records (in Wikipaedia and Sky Sports Football Yearbook etc) while Airdrie's previous life as Airdriepnians with a cup win more recent than Hibs last one, is wiped away?

I would be a bit sad to lose our history.

[Charlie-Brown]

Anyone know why Middlesbrough and Napoli and (going back further) Hibs, who are not the original entity, are given continuity of their records (in Wikipaedia and Sky Sports Football Yearbook etc) while Airdrie's previous life as Airdriepnians with a cup win more recent than Hibs last one, is wiped away?

I would be a bit sad to lose our history.

 

Hector has certain powers over 'phoenix' companies that can deter them from claiming they are a direct continuation of their previous heritage especially if substantial amounts of tax have gone unpaid .......however in Airdrie United case isn't it as simple as they are a direct continuation of a re-branded & relocated Clydebank FC just as Meadowbank Thistle became Livingston and as such aren't actually a phoenix entity or company.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Anyone know why Middlesbrough and Napoli and (going back further) Hibs, who are not the original entity, are given continuity of their records (in Wikipaedia and Sky Sports Football Yearbook etc) while Airdrie's previous life as Airdriepnians with a cup win more recent than Hibs last one, is wiped away?

I would be a bit sad to lose our history.

 

 

And Hearts according to the article in todays evening news detailing the problems between 1905 and 1910.

[Rudolf's Mate]

To answer some people's questions. Administration could see us remain in the SPL though it would depend on when we went in and how many points we were deducted.

 

Liquidation would see us start at the bottom!

[jamboozy]

BRING IT ON! I will always be a Jambo where ever we play and whoever.

[jambo in iraq]

 

why is it that when you come on here to discuss a hearts related subject, you end up being accused of being a hibs supporter by some t0ss pot?

 

have you ever taken two helicopter rides out of Baghdad, 3 flights and a 4 hour drive to see Hearts playing in the Champions League qualifier even when we were 3-0 down from the first leg.

 

Have you ever driven over 1000 miles from Istanbul airport to Hungary because your flight was cancelled to watch hearts play some diddy team?

 

I can't come to every match but i can bet you one thing I have covered as many miles as anyone else watching Hearts. So HOBO i ain't....

[Wolfstar]

why is it that when you come on here to discuss a hearts related subject, you end up being accused of being a hibs supporter by some t0ss pot?

 

have you ever taken two helicopter rides out of Baghdad, 3 flights and a 4 hour drive to see Hearts playing in the Champions League qualifier even when we were 3-0 down from the first leg.

 

Have you ever driven over 1000 miles from Istanbul airport to Hungary because your flight was cancelled to watch hearts play some diddy team?

 

I can't come to every match but i can bet you one thing I have covered as many miles as anyone else watching Hearts. So HOBO i ain't....

 

I doubt he has, since we were only 2-1 down after the first leg of the champions lge qualifier

[Ryan Gosling]

have you ever taken two helicopter rides out of Baghdad, 3 flights and a 4 hour drive to see Hearts playing in the Champions League qualifier even when we were 3-0 down from the first leg.

 

I doubt either of you have done that.