bean counter Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 As I understand it, and above all in FIFA's case, there are no rules which govern it: FIFA is accountable to no-one. And it's within FIFA's statutes that if member clubs or associations challenge its legal authority, those clubs or associations are thrown out. This is what has stopped governments everywhere from calling FIFA to account, and demanding it is criminally investigated - because what government anywhere would want to be blamed by the public for their clubs no longer being allowed to play? That FIFA and UEFA are both registered in Switzerland is, of course, not exactly a coincidence either. However - the Swiss authorities are becoming more and more exasperated with the constant stench surrounding FIFA. And surely any organisation can't be considered private, and must be subject, in this case, to European law? Unless, of course, all members of that organisation sign, as part of the requirements of their admission and membership, a waiver to all rights under national or supranational law, which grants express legal authority to the organisations in question? That's how it appears to me. That, essentially, is how FIFA and UEFA are able to do what they want, when they want. Shaun I would think it would need each and every player within each association to forgo their rights, or you will get more instances of Bosmanesque challanges especially under European Law especially employment law and freedom to trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Gutted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandylejambo Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 As I understand it, and above all in FIFA's case, there are no rules which govern it: FIFA is accountable to no-one. And it's within FIFA's statutes that if member clubs or associations challenge its legal authority, those clubs or associations are thrown out. This is what has stopped governments everywhere from calling FIFA to account, and demanding it is criminally investigated - because what government anywhere would want to be blamed by the public for their clubs no longer being allowed to play? That FIFA and UEFA are both registered in Switzerland is, of course, not exactly a coincidence either. However - the Swiss authorities are becoming more and more exasperated with the constant stench surrounding FIFA. And surely any organisation can't be considered private, and must be subject, in this case, to European law? Unless, of course, all members of that organisation sign, as part of the requirements of their admission and membership, a waiver to all rights under national or supranational law, which grants express legal authority to the organisations in question? The Swiss are not subject to European laws. That's how it appears to me. That, essentially, is how FIFA and UEFA are able to do what they want, when they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 The likes of Sion and every other football club have agreed to Uefa/Fifa/Association rules and are bound by them. This includes the discipline aspect and the fact Uefa have the powers to expel. This is the critical point, yes. Some of FIFA and UEFA's requirements are extraordinary: in the former's case, as part of a country being allowed to bid to host the World Cup, its government unbelievably has to agree to sign a document stipulating that FIFA will not be subject to any of the host country's taxation or money laundering legislation, and that no member of the FIFA organising committee can be prosecuted by the host country's authorities for literally anything at all. But when FIFA and UEFA effectively own the international and club game, what choice does any association or club have? Shaun I would think it would need each and every player within each association to forgo their rights, or you will get more instances of Bosmanesque challanges especially under European Law especially employment law and freedom to trade In individual cases? Yes. Not in a case like this, though. @sandylejambo: not EU law, no. But isn't there some form of European-wide law which even Switzerland is subject to? Or does that just apply to human rights cases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coburg Hearts Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 This is the critical point, yes. Some of FIFA and UEFA's requirements are extraordinary: in the former's case, as part of a country being allowed to bid to host the World Cup, its government unbelievably has to agree to sign a document stipulating that FIFA will not be subject to any of the host country's taxation or money laundering legislation, and that no member of the FIFA organising committee can be prosecuted by the host country's authorities for literally anything at all. But when FIFA and UEFA effectively own the international and club game, what choice does any association or club have? Wow !!! It's even worse than I thought, and I thought it was diabolical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Hardcastle Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Game might be postponed they're now saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Game might be postponed they're now saying i can console myself with the fact the celtic fans are getting messed about atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gentleman Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Fifa/Uefa are membership bodies like the SFA and other associations. They will be governed by constitutions and contract law. If a member doesn't like a decision they can go through a court. Courts don't have the power to reinstate although they could award damages. Cross border makes this more difficult as you are dealing with many different legal systems. The likes of Sion and every other football club have agreed to Uefa/Fifa/Association rules and are bound by them. This includes the discipline aspect and the fact Uefa have the powers to expel. Sion were never winning this one and won't win on appeal at CAS, or anywhere else. As much as I would love to see celtic thrown out again it won't happen and if I am being honest it would be a dangerous precedent as Uefa ruled, Sion ignored, by not punishing them they would be opening up the doors to the big boys to do what they want when they want. A very reasoned post. Besides, it'll be much more fun watching their humiliation in the group stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawick Jambo Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 a) They won't make much money Their players will be tired playing Thursday and Sunday c) They will get humped every Thursday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Are Sion still planning to show up regardless? That could be quite entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praha06 Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Are Sion still planning to show up regardless? That could be quite entertaining. Their president said this morning they wouldn't be travelling to Madrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Lecter Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Their president said this morning they wouldn't be travelling to Madrid. Shame. That would have been pretty interesting to say the least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Sion to sue UEFA for ?4M My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 On STV's site now that the Swiss Court have ordered UEFA to suspend the Sion/Celtic group, and are still calling for Sion's reinstatement. UEFA seem to be getting onto some very thin ice by ignoring the Court rulings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 On STV's site now that the Swiss Court have ordered UEFA to suspend the Sion/Celtic group, and are still calling for Sion's reinstatement. UEFA seem to be getting onto some very thin ice by ignoring the Court rulings. Bloody Sion! They're going to ruin the hooped demon humiliation show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 On STV's site now that the Swiss Court have ordered UEFA to suspend the Sion/Celtic group, and are still calling for Sion's reinstatement. UEFA seem to be getting onto some very thin ice by ignoring the Court rulings. Its especially interesting as the UEFA headquarters are based in the courts area of jurisdiction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Winchester Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Sion aren't letting this go. :yas: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Anything ******* Celtic about is extremely pleasing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 On STV's site now that the Swiss Court have ordered UEFA to suspend the Sion/Celtic group, and are still calling for Sion's reinstatement. UEFA seem to be getting onto some very thin ice by ignoring the Court rulings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davesmith Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Sion are doing the equivalent of appealing a murder charge to the homeless guy outside jenners. These courts have no power to enforce these decisions and I have no doubt Sion are doing it for PR and nothing else. It will cost them a fortune and they will still be out of europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I don't entirely understand how UEFA/FIFA can not be held accountable by any court. I mean if you put aside the fact the might expel Sion & the Swiss FA from it, if it's headquarters are registered there than surely it has to abide by the laws in that area? Can any official body really just opt out of the law or has it only been a case that everyone has been too scared to try until now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I don't entirely understand how UEFA/FIFA can not be held accountable by any court. I mean if you put aside the fact the might expel Sion & the Swiss FA from it, if it's headquarters are registered there than surely it has to abide by the laws in that area? Can any official body really just opt out of the law or has it only been a case that everyone has been too scared to try until now? Laws are there to be challenged but most will work to within the laws until the law doesn't suit both parties then this type of thing happens. Like the bosman ruling, I imagine that this will have a change to the jurisdiction of Uefa as the law of the land will come before the law of any company or organisation. Like the recent John Wilson case, as he was held in custody before the trial and therefore released after sentencing because he had "done his time" so to speak. I'm thinking that Sion never signed any players for 3 years so they served their punishment in the eyes of the law, but Uefa want the punishment to start from when they held their hearing about the Egyptian goalkeeper. I haven't looked into the facts but its the only thing I can think of as being brought to question or the punishment doesn't fit the "crime". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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