God in a Nutshell

[GazzaBroon]

Here's another thing to think about regarding chance.

 

Think about the joy of being a Hearts supporter, imagine what kind of life you would have had being born a Hibby.

 

God really does shine on the righteous

[Bigsmak]

There are a few inconsistancies and contradictions in the Bible but that doesn't take you away from the base fundamentials of it's preachings. Wether you believe in God or not it is a guide to the rights and wrongs, Good versus Evil within mankind.

 

The problem nowadays is that kids have grown up without being taught these morals as their parents have lost their way somehow with the dilution of guidance when they were growing up. Respect and tolerance were taught in the Bible and were practiced for many years keeping families and communities together. The church was a place that used to be the Hub of many communities and since the decline in Religeous teachings, the modern day is a free for all for self interest.

 

To ridicule and abuse believers is as ignorant and intolerant as the Bible bashers who refuse to believe other than their own faith. God is all powerful and comes in many forms. I haven't personally met him, I have spoken to him in times of need, he I believe has answered back in his own way. Do I believe in one God, NO. I believe in faith and if that is in God or a shrine or a symbol then faith is what it is. God is the sun and without it the Earth and all on it would die.

 

A lot of people believe that what is happening on the planet today is God's warning to us that we have to change our ways. Tsunami's, Hurricane's, floods, Earthquakes, Landslides etc are all created by man's need for resources in return God has given us the warning shot's that we are taking too much for granted.

 

I believe if everyone cared for peace and shared their wealth evenly, there would be harmony across the world. The average person only needs so much wealth to live comfortably, but greed and self interest are imbedded in their nature and no-one will take that from them or a war will break out either locally or worldly.

 

I believe in the Christian way that spreads love, tolerance and understanding, many don't and that is their choice.

 

The problem with the Bibles teachings of Good Vs Evil etc... is that there is a lot of..

 

'Don't do that ..... or else!' mentality...

 

I would rather it said, 'don't do that because its the right thing to do!'. One of the reasons I walked away form the Catholic church is that it was all about the concept of sin and asking forgiveness. And as you know sin leads to hell..

[GazzaBroon]

I agree with you and that's why I moved away from the Catholic church and settled on being of Christian faith.

 

That's the key word "Faith"....we use it everyday unkowingly.

 

When you turn your key in the car, you have blind faith that it will start.

 

When you get married you both have faith in your vows.

 

When your child is born you have faith that it will grow up healthy and be successful.

 

You have faith and belief in yourself to look after your family.

 

It goes on and on and I believe that without a degree in faith, why bother?

 

Faith comes in many forms and religeous belief's are just a small part of that.

 

Peace, tolerance, equality, caring, what is wrong with that?

 

It's the Christian way and being taught these and many other principles of morality from a young age IMHO is clearly beneficial to the standard of life for most ordinary people.

 

Why spend billions of pounds killing people when the same billions could change the quality of life for millions more?

 

Look at the poverty in the United States and UK for instance when our Governments waste the solution fighting wars for their own self interest. Look at the famine in Africa that could one day be eradicated with proper help. Why not invade these countries and spend our money educating and building a decent life for these people?

 

Whatever you believe, faith will always be needed as part of anyone's toolkit for life.

[Sten Guns]

Exactly, it is a matter of faith, and despite what some say there is solid evidence to back up faith, but I fully accept there is a point where it is all about blind faith, you simply have to step off the edge (a bit like a base-jumper) and trust God.

 

Not everyone is prepared to take that step, but others are. Why should they be ridiculed for it, perhaps the ones left standing on the edge are the ones missing out?

 

Scott, your an Athiest as well, as far as Islam goes.

 

You don't believe the Quran to be the word of God do you?

 

You probably think its all made up nonsense?

 

I'm the same as you, I just go one God further.

 

Does that alone not show the sheer absurdity of your 'faith'.

 

Plus the only reason your a Christian is a sheer accident of birth. That also must expose the nonsense you believe.

[2NaFish]

obfuscation, gazza. look it up.

[GazzaBroon]

Obfuscation is the concealment of intended meaning in communication, making communication confusing, intentionally ambiguous, and more difficult to interpret.

 

Would you like to elaborate on who, what, where you direct this to and give more than a one word reply to back up whatever your intented point was?

[2NaFish]

Would you like to elaborate on who, what, where you direct this to and give more than a one word reply to back up whatever your intented point was?

 

You've presented a list of things in which people have faith, and then taken that to a conclusion that states that, therefore, faith in god is not only desirable but reasonable. Faith, as do most words, has more than one meaning. It can mean 'complete trust and confidence' but it can also mean a 'strong belief based on spirituality rather than proof'. Turning your car key and having faith it will start is the first kind; praying to god and having faith he'll hear you is the second kind.

 

What you've done is nothing more than the classic, "theory of evolution? well that's all it is - a theory" line. Theory means more than one thing and to intentionally play on the incorrect meaning is disingenuous. That's what obfuscation, in this case, is.

[ToYouToMe]

Scott, your an Athiest as well, as far as Islam goes.

 

You don't believe the Quran to be the word of God do you?

 

You probably think its all made up nonsense?

 

I'm the same as you, I just go one God further.

 

Does that alone not show the sheer absurdity of your 'faith'.

 

Plus the only reason your a Christian is a sheer accident of birth. That also must expose the nonsense you believe.

 

 

How is it an accident of birth? I did not grow up going to church. I became a Christian at 19!! I could have chosen any of the world religions at that stage. I didn't. The only thing you are right about is yes, I do not believe the Quran is the word of God, but how exactly that shows the absurdity of my faith though I cannot see.

 

Lets think about it logically. There is only ONE truth. There cannot be multiple truths, by its very nature it is unique. I believe it is contained in the Bible, and was represented in Jesus Christ. You believe that there is no God. Muslims have their beliefs, Hindus theirs, and so on. But we cannot all be correct, all is faith, you say i am an atheist, I say you are a believer, you believe in your unbelief about God. It is all about faith ultimately.

[GazzaBroon]

You've presented a list of things in which people have faith, and then taken that to a conclusion that states that, therefore, faith in god is not only desirable but reasonable. Faith, as do most words, has more than one meaning. It can mean 'complete trust and confidence' but it can also mean a 'strong belief based on spirituality rather than proof'. Turning your car key and having faith it will start is the first kind; praying to god and having faith he'll hear you is the second kind.

 

What you've done is nothing more than the classic, "theory of evolution? well that's all it is - a theory" line. Theory means more than one thing and to intentionally play on the incorrect meaning is disingenuous. That's what obfuscation, in this case, is.

 

Where in my post have I mentioned GOD?

 

I also stated that "Faith" comes in many forms.

 

So I believe you may either didn't read my full post or have just decided to ignore most of it and create your own interpretation of what I wrote?

 

Either way your reply although correct is nothing to do with the contents of my misread "Obfuscation".

[2NaFish]

Where in my post have I mentioned GOD?

 

Your first line. "Christian faith". Unless there is a new christian faith that doesnt feature god then you're talking utter rot.

[GazzaBroon]

Your first line. "Christian faith". Unless there is a new christian faith that doesnt feature god then you're talking utter rot.

 

Just because I have a Christian Faith does no mean that I have to believe in God.

 

It just in my case means I believe in the the principles of Good versus Evil, Right versus Wong.

 

The problem it seems that you have is understanding the difference therefore you pigeon hole people and their beliefs into whatever suits your thinking.

 

So therefor NO, I do not believe that I am talking rot and it's quite simple as I've outlined above.

[2NaFish]

Just because I have a Christian Faith does no mean that I have to believe in God.

 

 

Yes. Yes it does. It absolutely, 100% is reliant upon you believing in God.

[GazzaBroon]

 

Only in your unwavering mind I'm afraid?

[GazzaBroon]

I'll try and make it simpler.

 

You read a good book, you don't remember it word for word but there are parts in it that interest you. You decide to practice what you personally believe is for you and disregard the bits you don't agree with.

 

Having read the bible there are lots that I don't believe, but there are parts that I do and they just happen to align with a large part of the Christian Faith.

 

Does that make me a fully paid up member of the Cristian order? Probably not, but I choose to call myself a Christian because I agree with the best part of the deal.

 

Maybe I am not a confirmed Christian, but who am I to split hairs and ridicule their ardent beliefs?

 

So to love and care, to share and be helpful are part of the Christian faith so I must believe in God?

 

Who am I or you to claim that God does or does not exists?

 

There are people who believe in Nessie, Yeti's, Bigfoot, Aliens, UFO's etc!

 

Where is the proof? Yet people keep their faith that they are out there!

 

To dismiss something because it doesn't sit comfortably with your own beliefs is just as ignorant as some-one with those same belief's failing to accept that you don't.

 

Each to their own I would say!

[2NaFish]

Being a christian is reliant upon several things, one of which is a belief in God. Having or being part of the christian faith necessitates belief in god. You may call me close minded but its nothing to do with that; words have meanings and the words you are using are not what you mean.

 

You mean you have broadly christian morals; add to that you also have broadly Muslim, Jewish and probably 99% of other religions. The way i've heard it described by theologians is that you are a "friend of christ". You could say you lead a christian life; but you are not part of nor do you have 'Christian Faith'.

 

You can't be a christian and not believe in God. It's a logical impossibility.

 

(the end of your post was just more obfuscation on the meaning of the word faith. i'll ignore that as its been dealt with)

[Sterling Archer]

I agree with you and that's why I moved away from the Catholic church and settled on being of Christian faith.

 

That's the key word "Faith"....we use it everyday unkowingly.

 

When you turn your key in the car, you have blind faith that it will start.

 

When you get married you both have faith in your vows.

 

When your child is born you have faith that it will grow up healthy and be successful.

 

You have faith and belief in yourself to look after your family.

 

It goes on and on and I believe that without a degree in faith, why bother?

 

Faith comes in many forms and religeous belief's are just a small part of that.

 

Peace, tolerance, equality, caring, what is wrong with that?

 

It's the Christian way and being taught these and many other principles of morality from a young age IMHO is clearly beneficial to the standard of life for most ordinary people.

 

Why spend billions of pounds killing people when the same billions could change the quality of life for millions more?

 

Look at the poverty in the United States and UK for instance when our Governments waste the solution fighting wars for their own self interest. Look at the famine in Africa that could one day be eradicated with proper help. Why not invade these countries and spend our money educating and building a decent life for these people?

 

Whatever you believe, faith will always be needed as part of anyone's toolkit for life.

 

Shame you couldn't save us time and just have faith in the US Government.

[GazzaBroon]

Ok, I know what your saying.

 

But it's easier for me to say that I am a Christian rather that get into a long winded explanation into why I believe I am, yet neither believe nor disbelieve in God. Maybe I follow my own individual faith and should find a new name for it.

 

"The church of the common people" springs to mind!

 

We'll agree to agree and disagree!

 

Peace and love brother!

[2NaFish]

We'll agree to agree and disagree!

 

Must admit i'm finding it a struggle to agree with anything you've said.

 

You're agnostic. You try and live a moral life broadly centred upon christian teachings. If someone asks you what your religion is, the correct answer would be agnostic. If someone asks (and they wont) do you live your life by a set of morals, then you can answer 'christian'.

 

I get that you werent happy at me trying to pigeon-hole you, but when talking about definitions then it's a necessary evil.

[ToYouToMe]

Being a christian is reliant upon several things, one of which is a belief in God. Having or being part of the christian faith necessitates belief in god. You may call me close minded but its nothing to do with that; words have meanings and the words you are using are not what you mean.

 

You mean you have broadly christian morals; add to that you also have broadly Muslim, Jewish and probably 99% of other religions. The way i've heard it described by theologians is that you are a "friend of christ". You could say you lead a christian life; but you are not part of nor do you have 'Christian Faith'.

 

You can't be a christian and not believe in God. It's a logical impossibility.

 

(the end of your post was just more obfuscation on the meaning of the word faith. i'll ignore that as its been dealt with)

 

Never thought i would find myself agreeing with one of your posts on this debate, but there you go, funny old world.

[i8hibsh]

[admin edit]

[i8hibsh]

Here's another thing to think about regarding chance.

 

Think about the joy of being a Hearts supporter, imagine what kind of life you would have had being born a Hibby.

 

God really does shine on the righteous

 

[admin edit]

[Ron Burgundy]

[admin edit]

 

 

To be fair it's pretty obvious that you dont believe in God and you are getting very excited and anxious sounding.Why not just accept some people believe and some don't instead of trying to ram your point of view down everyones throat.We get it, you think it's bollocks, fair enough.

God be with you.

[2NaFish]

Never thought i would find myself agreeing with one of your posts on this debate, but there you go, funny old world.

 

It's not really fair as GB isn't really on your side. He thinks he is, but he's not.

 

Other than talking to Gazza Broon about his 'faith', the only thing i've said in this debate is that we don't have 'original manuscripts' for biblical texts, which is what you had claimed. Care to make it 2 and agree with me that we dont have 'original manuscripts'?

[i8hibsh]

I am not trying to ?ram my point down people?s throats? or at least that is not the intention. Here is my main beefs:

 

? It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to escape religion.

? All I ever hear is how amazing god is and he loves us all (unless Jewish ,Black or gay that is).

? How unconditional his love is - yeah right then ? see the bible.

? I am sick of seeing nothing but misery in this world and then hearing how amazing god is.

? I am sick of seeing war and conflict a constant in life ? with yup you guessed it good old ?God?s? name cropping up in virtually all of them.

? I am sick of people using their worship of superstition and myth being branded as a badge of affirmation to how nice they are. Where Do I even begin with this one.

? Religion is entirely intolerant and it has no respect for me or the lifestyle I chose. Why the **** do I ?HAVE? to respect people?s beliefs.

 

 

And since when the ***** did being a nice person, respecting others and doing good when you can be exclusively Christian values?

 

Good deeds and being good were human values long long long before Christianity reared it?s ugly head.

 

 

And the world is by FACT 4 billion years old. DNA, Carbon dating etc etc are far more factual than a book of fiction written to control the masses a few thousand years ago.

 

I heard a great analogy recently and that is for one to assume and believe the world is 4,000 years old is so ridiculously inaccurate as believing that the width of North America from East coast to West is 10 yards.

[Vlad-Stupid]

TBF, if it wasnt for the fact that religion is the cause of all war, I'd probably find it quite funny that people believe in a man in the sky, a book written by Shakespeare and the world is only 4000 years old. I just cant get past the fact that there will never be peace in the world while theyre around

[i8hibsh]

TBF, if it wasnt for the fact that religion is the cause of all war, I'd probably find it quite funny that people believe in a man in the sky, a book written by Shakespeare and the world is only 4000 years old. I just cant get past the fact that there will never be peace in the world while theyre around

 

 

If you haven't seen a film by Ricky Gervais caleld 'the invention of lying' then go get it dude.

 

It's amazing.

[Vlad-Stupid]

If you haven't seen a film by Ricky Gervais caleld 'the invention of lying' then go get it dude.

 

It's amazing.

 

Seen it many times, I love how his parody shows Christianity for how utterly ridiculous it actually is

[i8hibsh]

Seen it many times, I love how his parody shows Christianity for how utterly ridiculous it actually is

 

 

 

'The man who sued God' with Billy Connelly is quality too.

[shaun.lawson]

Yet I offer you four things to consider in response (and you haven't dealt with the legs question yet).

 

Firstly, your story is not too dissimilar to something that happened to me once in my 20s - and once again about 4-5 years ago.

 

Secondly, that doesn't greatly surprise me, because in a world where billions of people are doing billions of things, the kind of sequence of events you describe will happen quite often to different people. On that occasion, the sequence happened to you.

 

Thirdly, and this is crucial, if one of those "extraordinary" things had not happened, you would not have given any thought whatsoever to whether or not the others would have happened. You can only be sure your Head of Department is around or is not around when you want him to be in a particular place. There are many other days when your Head of Department may or may not be around - but you neither know nor care. If the event had happened two weeks before, it would have been just another day at the office for the accountant. People notice when apparently extraordinary things happen, and these occasions really stick in their minds as being special but not mundane and mediocre. But in fact they are mundane and mediocre - it's just that because you needed something to happen and it did, you believe that sequence was special. Why? Because our brains are designed to construct a universe in two halves, one half being us and the other half being everything else.

 

Finally, there is nothing remarkable about your meeting with your Indian friend. He was somewhere he was going, and so were you. If you hadn't met him that day it would have been unremarkable and you wouldn't have noticed. In the same way, I recall a mate of mine who was meant to call someone before he left work to go on holidays, but forgot. He met him a few days later at the entrance to the Empire State Building, and although they were on holidays they had a quick chat to sort out their business. Afterwards told me how astonishing a coincidence it was. Except that it wasn't. Both guys went to New York as part of their holidays, both went at the same time, and both chose to visit the Empire State Building (as tourists do). It was highly unusual that both of them were there at the same time - but it was an event that they both set in motion by their holiday choices.

I'd recommend two books - neither of which have anything to do with or say about God. If you haven't read them they'll do a far better job than I could of explaining the enormous capacity of the human mind for deceiving itself. If you've already read them, then I probably should just give up.

 

They are Ben Goldacre's Bad Science, and The Invisible Gorilla: And Other Ways Our Intuitions Deceive Us by Christopher Chabris and Daniel Simons.

 

 

Cheers for the recommendations. Those books sound like, um, a bit of gentle bedtime reading. I'll be sure to check them out.

 

The legs question? I was about to reply with "well, the mind can play tricks on us sometimes", but then thought "oh". I'm afraid I still don't fully see your point, though: and a couple of things you've raised above seem like borderline non sequiturs to me.

 

"If the event had happened two weeks before..." - the point is, it didn't. It happened at a time I was bloody luck to get hold of him at all. "If you hadn't met him that day, it would've been unremarkable..." - yes, and? If Hearts hadn't won the first eight games of 2005/6, that would've been unremarkable too, and people wouldn't talk about the start of that season in the same way. Point is, we did, so we do.

 

In other words, the line you've taken above is a way of dismissing all apparently remarkable events anywhere. And I'm afraid it just doesn't cut it. Where I do agree with you, though, is on our brains constructing the universe into two halves - and it leads me to a broader point.

 

How do you explain intuition, Uly? Is that all based on pure, reasoned intelligence, or something more: something which can occasionally border upon the supernatural? Do I think most psychics are con artists? Yes - not all of them, though. Do I think ghosts might conceivably exist? Yes I do. Do I think angels might conceivably exist? Perhaps.

 

Of course, one person's premonition is another's hallucination; one person's seeing a ghost, angel or UFO is another's mind playing tricks upon them. But I don't think we'll ever know for sure in any of these cases. When he was in his twenties, my father had a serious motorbike accident, and lay in the road unconscious. To this day, he swears he saw bright lights flashing, and believes he must've been very close to death.

 

Is this recollection accurate? Who knows? I'm not about to dismiss it altogether, though.

[Vlad-Stupid]

'The man who sued God' with Billy Connelly is quality too.

 

Not seen that for years, Pay up or deny God's existence

[shaun.lawson]

 

Yes. Yes it does. It absolutely, 100% is reliant upon you believing in God.

 

After the Holocaust, my grandmother, and many others like her, lost all faith in God. How could they possibly believe in Him after something like that? So in your view, did she therefore cease to be Jewish too, meaning Hitler got what he wanted, albeit in a roundabout sort of way?

 

 

You can?t cherry pick the bible. You take it in it?s entirety or not at all.

 

 

Says who? Says you, world expert on theology?

 

TBF, if it wasnt for the fact that religion is the cause of all war,

 

Except that it's not.

[2NaFish]

After the Holocaust, my grandmother, and many others like her, lost all faith in God. How could they possibly believe in Him after something like that? So in your view, did she therefore cease to be Jewish too, meaning Hitler got what he wanted,

 

Judaism is different, special even, and not because of the holocaust and you know that shaun. You know as well as i do that you can have had nothing to do with the religion itself and still be a jew. I think it's matrilineal, but i'm not sure. Both my parents were raised catholic and went through all the hoo-doo initiations and, if the monty python song is to be believed, i 'was a catholic the moment dad came'.

 

I can't say i'm wholely comfortable with someone's religion being decided by their 'race' (its a poor word, but we'll run with it as we both know what we mean by it). Hitler wanted rid of the jewish race - he was an anti-semite rather than just anti-jewish (the word anti-semite first emerges in 1894, and is a different concept), you're grandmother remained a member of the jewish race. If she stopped having faith in the jewish god and his religion then she stopped being a jew on a religious basis, imo. Like i said, i'm not very comfortable with race and religion being intertwined, so my answer is reliant upon what you mean by 'stopped being a jew'.

 

My point was, and it remains, that to be a christian (assessing what makes a christian by explaining what makes a jew isnt the strongest logic) it is a pre-requisite to believe, amongst other things, in god.

[shaun.lawson]

Judaism is different, special even, and not because of the holocaust and you know that shaun. You know as well as i do that you can have had nothing to do with the religion itself and still be a jew. I think it's matrilineal, but i'm not sure. Both my parents were raised catholic and went through all the hoo-doo initiations and, if the monty python song is to be believed, i 'was a catholic the moment dad came'.

 

I can't say i'm wholely comfortable with someone's religion being decided by their 'race' (its a poor word, but we'll run with it as we both know what we mean by it). Hitler wanted rid of the jewish race - he was an anti-semite rather than just anti-jewish (the word anti-semite first emerges in 1894, and is a different concept), you're grandmother remained a member of the jewish race. If she stopped having faith in the jewish god and his religion then she stopped being a jew on a religious basis, imo. Like i said, i'm not very comfortable with race and religion being intertwined, so my answer is reliant upon what you mean by 'stopped being a jew'.

 

My point was, and it remains, that to be a christian (assessing what makes a christian by explaining what makes a jew isnt the strongest logic) it is a pre-requisite to believe, amongst other things, in god.

 

Fair enough.

[Sten Guns]

Therein lies the problem with brainwashing / religion.

 

It takes a bloody HOLOCAUST for people to realise the beardy felly in the sky is really just made up pish.

[Benzinho]

 

Cheers for the recommendations. Those books sound like, um, a bit of gentle bedtime reading. I'll be sure to check them out.

 

The legs question? I was about to reply with "well, the mind can play tricks on us sometimes", but then thought "oh". I'm afraid I still don't fully see your point, though: and a couple of things you've raised above seem like borderline non sequiturs to me.

 

"If the event had happened two weeks before..." - the point is, it didn't. It happened at a time I was bloody luck to get hold of him at all. "If you hadn't met him that day, it would've been unremarkable..." - yes, and? If Hearts hadn't won the first eight games of 2005/6, that would've been unremarkable too, and people wouldn't talk about the start of that season in the same way. Point is, we did, so we do.

 

In other words, the line you've taken above is a way of dismissing all apparently remarkable events anywhere. And I'm afraid it just doesn't cut it. Where I do agree with you, though, is on our brains constructing the universe into two halves - and it leads me to a broader point.

 

How do you explain intuition, Uly? Is that all based on pure, reasoned intelligence, or something more: something which can occasionally border upon the supernatural? Do I think most psychics are con artists? Yes - not all of them, though. Do I think ghosts might conceivably exist? Yes I do. Do I think angels might conceivably exist? Perhaps.

 

Of course, one person's premonition is another's hallucination; one person's seeing a ghost, angel or UFO is another's mind playing tricks upon them. But I don't think we'll ever know for sure in any of these cases. When he was in his twenties, my father had a serious motorbike accident, and lay in the road unconscious. To this day, he swears he saw bright lights flashing, and believes he must've been very close to death.

 

Is this recollection accurate? Who knows? I'm not about to dismiss it altogether, though.

 

Is it not more than possible that this was the ambulance lights or perhaps even a doctor or paramedic flashing a torch in his eyes to check for a response filtering through into his subconscious, much in the same way as your alarm clock manifests itself as something different in your dreams for a brief moment before you wake up?

[shaun.lawson]

Is it not more than possible that this was the ambulance lights or perhaps even a doctor or paramedic flashing a torch in his eyes to check for a response filtering through into his subconscious, much in the same way as your alarm clock manifests itself as something different in your dreams for a brief moment before you wake up?

 

That's certainly possible, yes. Except he says these bright lights were part of a dark tunnel he was in too.

 

Now - how much of this might be his subconscious acting in a way it'd been taught to act in such a situation - because many of us have heard similar stories about near-death experiences - I don't know. Thing is, in this and other cases like it, I don't think we'll ever know. Same with the afterlife, heaven/hell and all the rest of it.

 

I'm 99.99% sure that there's nothing. We just die, are eaten by worms in the soil or burnt to a crisp. But I can't be 100% certain of that - especially when it comes to our souls, or even our spirits.

[Vlad-Stupid]

The brain stays active for a couple of minutes after you 'die' which may explain a lot of peoples weird experiences. TBH I dont really like the idea that when you die, you may have the capacity for a short time to be conscious of the fact your heart isnt beating

[Sten Guns]

The brain stays active for a couple of minutes after you 'die' which may explain a lot of peoples weird experiences. TBH I dont really like the idea that when you die, you may have the capacity for a short time to be conscious of the fact your heart isnt beating

 

Didn't know that.

 

Sounds brutal tbh.

[Benzinho]

That's certainly possible, yes. Except he says these bright lights were part of a dark tunnel he was in too.

 

Now - how much of this might be his subconscious acting in a way it'd been taught to act in such a situation - because many of us have heard similar stories about near-death experiences - I don't know. Thing is, in this and other cases like it, I don't think we'll ever know. Same with the afterlife, heaven/hell and all the rest of it.

 

I'm 99.99% sure that there's nothing. We just die, are eaten by worms in the soil or burnt to a crisp. But I can't be 100% certain of that - especially when it comes to our souls, or even our spirits.

 

That's the problem I have though, people filling the unexplained with "It was God wot dunnit", instead of trying to find a rational explanation, or at least accpeting that there must be a rational explanation.

 

I was watching a Christopher Hitchens debate a wee while ago, can't remember which one or who with, where he was talking about how science keeps filling in the gaps of the unkown and religion/faith keeps retreating into an ever smaller corner, still claiming that the as yet unknown parts are proof of God's existence. I don't think I've explained that all that well but you get the gist.

[Chad Sexington]

The brain stays active for a couple of minutes after you 'die' which may explain a lot of peoples weird experiences. TBH I dont really like the idea that when you die, you may have the capacity for a short time to be conscious of the fact your heart isnt beating

 

Apparently the brain stays active for a good few seconds after decapitation as well.

[GazzaBroon]

It's comforting to know that every other week at Tynie we sing a song that originated from the Christian Faith.

 

And we sing it with the same passion that many have put into their posts either for or against on this thread

[Hansel]

It's comforting to know that every other week at Tynie we sing a song that originated from the Christian Faith.

 

And we sing it with the same passion that many have put into their posts either for or against on this thread

Still sing it at my church, and give a wee wink at the Hibs fans in the congregation at the same time.

[shaun.lawson]

The brain stays active for a couple of minutes after you 'die' which may explain a lot of peoples weird experiences. TBH I dont really like the idea that when you die, you may have the capacity for a short time to be conscious of the fact your heart isnt beating

 

 

Apparently the brain stays active for a good few seconds after decapitation as well.

 

Which is all further proof that, if there is a God, He must be a right sadistic *******, no?

[i8hibsh]

It's comforting to know that every other week at Tynie we sing a song that originated from the Christian Faith.

 

And we sing it with the same passion that many have put into their posts either for or against on this thread

 

 

Kum Ba Yah ma Lord.............

[i8hibsh]

Which is all further proof that, if there is a God, He must be a right sadistic *******, no?

 

 

 

Shaun can I ask what your beliefs are please?

 

Are you a religious man?

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun can I ask what your beliefs are please?

 

Are you a religious man?

 

I'm a non-practising Jew. You could say that makes me Jew...ish. Do I believe in God? No, but at the same time, I'm not prepared to discount His possible existence. It's more accurate to say that I don't know, will never know, and unusually for me, don't actually want to know either way.

 

I had a Barmitzvah; underwent that other, er, 'thing' which often separates Jews from non-Jews when I was a baby; went to Hebrew classes when I was about six (which stopped when my Dad, bless him, couldn't be bothered to get out of bed on a Sunday morning to take me any longer); and used to observe Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur: not any longer, though. But I don't eat kosher, bloody love bacon, nor am I that well versed on the full contents of the Torah.

 

My father's an atheist; my mother's a bit like me, really; none of my other siblings had either a Barmitzvah or Batmitzvah, although both my sisters would describe themselves as Jewish. But I wear a couple at services such as funerals or stone settings, will read Hebrew prayers when required at those services, and overall, am just another of a large community of North-West London liberal Jews who pick and choose what they believe, and what they don't. Community is the key term here - because that's what we all feel, I think.

 

The other point, of course, relates back to my Holocaust surviving grandmother. For various, complicated reasons, I'm the only member of my family still in regular touch with her: and we've always had a unique relationship. In a sense, I regard it as my duty to carry her memory - and all that she's told me and I've learnt about her hideous experiences - with me after she's gone. The most important aspect of my curious brand of very liberal Judaism? Daft and self-indulgent though it might sound: her.

[2NaFish]

I'm a non-practising Jew. You could say that makes me Jew...ish.

 

I'd be willing to convert and then become apathetic about the faith if it meant i could make that joke.

[shaun.lawson]

I'd be willing to convert and then become apathetic about the faith if it meant i could make that joke.

 

Ah yes - the best thing about being Jewish? It means I get to slag off and joke about other Jews to my heart's content.

[2NaFish]

Ah yes - the best thing about being Jewish? It means I get to slag off and joke about other Jews to my heart's content.

 

Hearts fan from a catholic background living in Glasgow

 

[Vlad-Stupid]

I've got the Jew blood, I'm not in to religion, and I love bacon, not got much of a foreskin and I think Hitler was a bit of a lad. Work that one out Sigmund Freud