Step aside Temps

[The People's Chimp]

Yes. Hulk, Cordoba, Suarez, Izaguirre, Rooney etc. Have all suffered dearly from upper body strength. No pace whatsoever.

 

 

It's all about a proper balance. I remember Leeds Utd at Tynecastle for a friendly a number of years ago. Every single one of them looked like they had been carved out of granite by someone using the Charles Atlas catalogue for reference. Nonetheless, they were fast, skilful and agile as well as physically strong and imposing.

 

As for fast and slow twitch fibres - can you find me a picture of a 100/200m sprinter that is not built like a brick sh1thouse.

 

 

Strength claims another victim:

 

 

6ft5" tall &14.79 Stone.

 

He could've been the Worlds fastest man if he never bulked up! Oh wait...

 

 

 

Oh dear. I must have imagined the conversation I had with the club doctor of an SPL club who bemoaned the tendency of players to do the wrong kind of work in the gym.

 

Anyway I see you've failed to address the point that Temps problems are not about strength but about choosing the wrong options and decided to just start posting pictures.

 

 

[The Comedian]

This is just nonsense, fairly typical from HGW though. Putting aside the fact Novi was Hearts most lightweight player last season, this obsession with "the gym" and with "bulking up" actually costs players. Muscles are made up of different fibres, fast twitch and slow twitch. The more time spent in the gym doing slow strength exercises (i.e. weights) the more you build up 'slow twitch' fibres, and thus you lose speed. Look at Cavendish in the TDF who has maintained strength, but worked on that explosive speed. The obsession with the gym and upper body bulk is actually costing players acceleration and speed. Templeton's problem is not a lack of strength, but is about what he does with the ball i.e. he is simply too ball greedy. He needs to learn to pass and move into space.

 

Great post, you know your stuff.

[Thunderstruck]

Oh dear. I must have imagined the conversation I had with the club doctor of an SPL club who bemoaned the tendency of players to do the wrong kind of work in the gym.

 

Anyway I see you've failed to address the point that Temps problems are not about strength but about choosing the wrong options and decided to just start posting pictures.

 

Equally, you have failed to note that football is a demanding sport, particularly the way it is played in Scotland. Professional athletes will perform better (physically and mentally) when properly conditioned (physically and mentally).

[The People's Chimp]

Equally, you have failed to note that football is a demanding sport, particularly the way it is played in Scotland. Professional athletes will perform better (physically and mentally) when properly conditioned (physically and mentally).

 

Did you even read my initial post? Where did I suggest that footballers shouldn't be properly conditioned? My whole post is about proper conditioning!

[Gregory House M.D.]

Oh dear. I must have imagined the conversation I had with the club doctor of an SPL club who bemoaned the tendency of players to do the wrong kind of work in the gym.

 

Anyway I see you've failed to address the point that Temps problems are not about strength but about choosing the wrong options and decided to just start posting pictures.

 

Temps isn't strong enough. Not his major failing, but a failing nonetheless.

 

The "conversation with an SPL doctor" may be where you're going wrong.

[mahgrassyshoes]

Temps may have had poor games against Utd and M'well, but he is our best out ball at the minute. The top 6 game against Rangers and the 1-1 draw things went tits up after 15 minutes and 55 minutes, respectively. What happened at this point? Temps went off. I like Novikovas, but as it stands he should be the impact sub and Temps the starter.

 

As for people arguing about 100m sprinter... Running in a straight line for 100m is entirely different from twisting up and down the wing over 50 yards max. Jesus.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Temps isn't strong enough. Not his major failing, but a failing nonetheless.

 

The "conversation with an SPL doctor" may be where you're going wrong.

 

And Novikovas is ??

[Gregory House M.D.]

Temps may have had poor games against Utd and M'well, but he is our best out ball at the minute. The top 6 game against Rangers and the 1-1 draw things went tits up after 15 minutes and 55 minutes, respectively. What happened at this point? Temps went off. I like Novikovas, but as it stands he should be the impact sub and Temps the starter.

 

As for people arguing about 100m sprinter... Running in a straight line for 100m is entirely different from twisting up and down the wing over 50 yards max. Jesus.

 

A completely relative argument when talking about losing pace due to building up though. Feel free to actually read the posts before making smart arse comments accompanied with facepalms in future.

[Dr. Bapswent]

but that is all he ever does,everytime he gets on the ball,every game. when was the last time he picked up the ball,hit the bye-line and crossed the ball?

 

 

Right....and....ill just say the same thing again.

 

Maybe its what he has been asked to do?

 

Maybe his left foot crossing is awful and wasteful?

[Gregory House M.D.]

And Novikovas is ??

 

Novikovas hits the line, Temps attempts to cut in through defences. I'll leave you to decide which one requires strength.

[Debut 4]

Novikovas deserves a chance but he has alot of convincing to do. I really think he has to be tougher and braver to make it no mater how much skill he has. He`ll never see the benefit or us for that matter if he doesn`t show more bravery.

 

Templeton is without doubt a better player but is falling out of games a bit easy at times. But are we being harsh?

 

Without an influential midfield there is so much riding on Temps to be the provider. With a better central area we`d see better movement and supply for Templeton to be more effective.

[mahgrassyshoes]

A completely relative argument when talking about losing pace due to building up though. Feel free to actually read the posts before making smart arse comments accompanied with facepalms in future.

 

 

It's completely irrelevant as it's a different discipline. Temps, Driver and Novikovas "bulking up" at the ratio sprinters do would massively impact on their ability to play the way they play. They might become quicker over 100m, but 1) if they can't twist and turn they don't play as well and 2) it's useless as they are never running over 100m.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Novikovas hits the line, Temps attempts to cut in through defences. I'll leave you to decide which one requires strength.

 

I think they both require strength.

 

No ?

[mahgrassyshoes]

Novikovas deserves a chance but he has alot of convincing to do. I really think he has to be tougher and braver to make it no mater how much skill he has. He`ll never see the benefit or us for that matter if he doesn`t show more bravery.

 

Templeton is without doubt a better player but is falling out of games a bit easy at times. But are we being harsh?

 

Without an influential midfield there is so much riding on Temps to be the provider. With a better central area we`d see better movement and supply for Templeton to be more effective.

 

Maybe a tad, I, personally, wouldn't say he falls out of games. He becomes less influential as teams double up, but he doesn't stop trying or hide. It's getting too easy for teams to get a 1 goal lead against us and sit in deep doubling up on Temps and seeing out the game. They know we don't have enough in midfield to break down 10 men behind the ball.

[Gregory House M.D.]

It's completely irrelevant as it's a different discipline. Temps, Driver and Novikovas "bulking up" at the ratio sprinters do would massively impact on their ability to play the way they play. They might become quicker over 100m, but 1) if they can't twist and turn they don't play as well and 2) it's useless as they are never running over 100m.

 

Emm, who mentioned bulking up to run 100m? My post was to point out that by bulking up you don't necessarily lose pace. Nobody wants Novikovas or Driver to bulk up either. Just Temps. If he's trying to take it through defenders he needs strength to stay up when shoulder to shoulder with defenders etc. Novikovas hits the line so doesn't need as much strength IMO. Drivers fat enough.

[Gregory House M.D.]

I think they both require strength.

 

No ?

No. If your cutting in your gonna come up against big CH's, if you're hitting the line you're against a wingback shepherding you. How can you not see this?

[Feeno]

[Feeno]

[TheBigO]

My poor thread. What has become o' ye poor wretched sister?

 

Amongst the drivel (ta for that DH and HGW btw!), a couple of good points.

 

We don't know what Temps has been told to do, that much is correct. I remember Clum getting pelters at games and on here for being too lazy to close down fullbacks. Fact was he's been told by Frail (I think) only to cover the CHs and stay central. However, I doubt very much Temps has been told to lose possession on 95% of the occasions he receives the ball. I doubt he's been told to do this for all but a couple of games since December.

 

I'm pretty sure no manager in their right mind would instruct any player to run with the ball and shoot and do nothing more - don't take part in any team activity whatsoever unless it will lead directly to a goal. No way. I've no doubt he's told to get at them as much as he can, but he simply needs to improve his decision making. He won't go any further than Hearts and may not even cut it here if he doesn't. That would be a massive waste as he has bags of talent and I like him a lot - I think we all do.

 

Arvy just seems to have more all-round football in him. He isn't all tanner baw, which Temps, without cruelty, is at the moment.

 

I think people are being a wee bit unfair on Driver's delivery too. It used to be poor. I think Csaba, to his credit, got him working on it - as well as his right foot - and I think it's improved. I'm sure he'll prove this point over this season.

 

Really hope noone takes this thread as a 'go' at Tempsy. Said a couple of times already on the thread that I think he needs time to think and work on his game and maybe some time used as an impact sub, getting at a tired fullback would do him good.

 

DH's point about Arvy not getting a game at St J!? My word. 19yo laddie doesn't make impact on loan. Boooooooooooooo, not fit to don the maroon! Get him out!! Arvy suffers from stifling shyness and what comes over as a lack of enthusiasm. This worried Derek McInnes and he felt he couldn't trust him to turn it on in games. He pretty much just didn't get time to get to know the kid. He's a laddie who's moved to a new country aged 16, away from family etc. It isn't easy. The big hope is that this season he feels at one with himself and comes out his shell a bit. Indications from his wee cameos are that this is happening. I genuinely think we have a star in our midst and maybe it's time he got a bit more exposure. He seriously couldn't bring less to the team than Temps has of late, so no huge pressure on him at present either.

[heartsfc_fan]

Teams know what to expect from Templeton now. He's our most dangerous player.

 

Opposition double up on him. Even Paks had it sussed that if you put 2 players on him and foul him at every given chance, it stops him.

 

The sooner we have Driver 100% or even Suso back in the team, we'll have danger down both wings, thus giving teams another thing to think about.

[Feeno]

[Feeno]

[Drylaw Hearts]

No. If your cutting in your gonna come up against big CH's, if you're hitting the line you're against a wingback shepherding you. How can you not see this?

 

This is pointless.

 

You haven't got a clue.

[gorgie rd eh11]

Right now, Arvydas looks the better player by a considerable distance.

 

 

 

 

[Feeno]

Some utter shite gettin spewed on this thread, another call for the young player to get put in the team and then chewed up and spat out.

 

 

I find it quite funny the folks that are shouting on gettin Arrvy in are the same ones who want Robinson, Denis P, Holt in the team.

 

 

Do yous just want them in there so you can service this ridiculous judgemental need on young players who deserve more support than what their currently getting. How long will it be before you turn on Arvvy???

 

You all take the joy when these players score a goal, play well. you have to take the shitey when the dont.

 

**** all of you , disguising your own inadequacies as debate, theres room for both of them.

[TheBigO]

Some utter shite gettin spewed on this thread, another call for the young player to get put in the team and then chewed up and spat out.

 

 

I find it quite funny the folks that are shouting on gettin Arrvy in are the same ones who want Robinson, Denis P, Holt in the team.

 

 

Do yous just want them in there so you can service this ridiculous judgemental need on young players who deserve more support than what their currently getting. How long will it be before you turn on Arvvy???

 

You all take the joy when these players score a goal, play well. you have to take the shitey when the dont.

 

**** all of you , disguising your own inadequacies as debate, theres room for both of them.

 

Oh Feeno, you cad. I do hope I'm not included in the above vitriol!?

 

All's I'm saying is Temps' current run in the team has run it's course. To get him firing again, he needs a rest and think. Arvy looks ready for a wee run.

 

heartsfc_fans: teams do double up on Temps. It's part and parcel of being a good player. He needs to learn how to deal with it cos if he's to make a career, it's gona happen to him most weeks. This means doing the simply stuff and choosing the moment to strike. Also, what would help him most in that respect (other than his own use of the ball) is a midfield which can draw players in and move the ball around. A bit of patience and moving the ball left and right and in and out can draw a marker away from a winger. Celtic are brilliant at it and have been for a while. We need to learn to do that to use our great wingers to best effect, especially at home when we'll have the bulk of possession and more onus is on us.

[Gregory House M.D.]

This is pointless.

 

You haven't got a clue.

 

Aye, OK Drylaw

 

Wing backs are told to shepherd wingers onto their weaker foot and not to get tight as it makes you easy to turn, but obviously it's not like that in your opinion so near on every managers talking shite.

 

 

 

 

 

 

:Vlad-Stupid:

[N User]

Novikovas deserves his chance but remember he's coming on in games against tired legs.

 

 

 

Don't expect brilliance from him immediately if he is played.

[Feeno]

Oh Feeno, you cad. I do hope I'm not included in the above vitriol!?

 

All's I'm saying is Temps' current run in the team has run it's course. To get him firing again, he needs a rest and think. Arvy looks ready for a wee run.

 

heartsfc_fans: teams do double up on Temps. It's part and parcel of being a good player. He needs to learn how to deal with it cos if he's to make a career, it's gona happen to him most weeks. This means doing the simply stuff and choosing the moment to strike. Also, what would help him most in that respect (other than his own use of the ball) is a midfield which can draw players in and move the ball around. A bit of patience and moving the ball left and right and in and out can draw a marker away from a winger. Celtic are brilliant at it and have been for a while. We need to learn to do that to use our great wingers to best effect, especially at home when we'll have the bulk of possession and more onus is on us.

 

hey if the shoe fits buddy....dont step in dog shit! Patience is mentioned in your post, funny that eh! also the remedy to the problem you've posted I agree, but hows he gonnae do that if he's not playing???

[Feeno]

Novikovas deserves his chance but remember he's coming on in games against tired legs.

 

 

 

Don't expect brilliance from him immediately if he is played.

 

He'll get a start and probably no play to well (which by some of these mouth breathers standards probably willnae be too bad) and ***** will be on his back.

[Gregory House M.D.]

David Templeton is fast becoming the most over-rated player on Kickback. On current form Novikovas is better than Templeton. Kenif makes a good point though, that he is coming on against tired legs.

[TheBigO]

hey if the shoe fits buddy....dont step in dog shit! Patience is mentioned in your post, funny that eh! also the remedy to the problem you've posted I agree, but hows he gonnae do that if he's not playing???

 

You know that players train? With a football? He could work on stuff there. Crazy, but might just work! Oh and see below for further clarification and more sense.

 

David Templeton is fast becoming the most over-rated player on Kickback. On current form Novikovas is better than Templeton. Kenif makes a good point though, that he is coming on against tired legs.

 

And then Temps would get a go at the tired legs. Everyone's a winner!

 

Oh, I'm good Feeno. Go on, say it, you know it's true!

 

Let's gang up on HGW, that'll be more fun!

[Francis Albert]

Teams know what to expect from Templeton now. He's our most dangerous player.

 

Opposition double up on him. Even Paks had it sussed that if you put 2 players on him and foul him at every given chance, it stops him.

The sooner we have Driver 100% or even Suso back in the team, we'll have danger down both wings, thus giving teams another thing to think about.

 

 

So we are effectively playing against 10 men. So we should be able to take advantage of that, you'd have thought.

[davie1980]

for me temps is the most talented player of the 3. someone said that novi has the potential to be better than temps...possibly, but bear in mind that temps also has room to improve

there is no denying that all 3 driver/temps/novikovas have strengths and weaknesses in their game and there is room to improve in certain areas.

temps has to improve his decision making but that is one thing that definately comes with experience, he will learn. and under paulo sergio, i've no dount he will have it drummed into him, the importance of team play, passing and decision making

 

as for dropping him for novikovas.

i don't see any problem in giving a talented young player a rest out of the first team to protect them when they are having a poor run of form. most managers recommend it as part of a young players development, lets not forget temps is only 22 with a season and a half under his belt and a lot of pressure on him. giving him a rest doesn't need to be viewed as a negative thing and it gives an opening for a player who has looked impressive from the bench recently and possibly deserrves a wee run in the team.

does that mean we replace temps with novi? no, temps will get back in the team!

 

but we have one player struggling for form and under pressure to be a match winner every week, one player with known injury problems just getting back to fitness and one very young inexperienced winger who has shown a bit of potential and might benefit from some game time. looks like an ideal scenario for a bit of rotation to me

 

as for hitting the by line, driver used to do this to great effect as his main weapon is pace. if/when he gets back to full fitness he definately offers something different to temps/novi

 

i think if we start playing 2 of these 3 in the wide areas we can really give teams problems. teams used to double up on driver and now they double up on temps. if we get both back fit and firing, how do you combat both. and how much space does it leave other players when the opposition are so busy trying to contain the threat from wide areas?

also if novikovas is showing a bit of potential and can possibly get to where temps is, according to some, it gives the manager one of those difficult decisions they all love so much.

[Gregory House M.D.]

So we are effectively playing against 10 men. So we should be able to take advantage of that, you'd have thought.

Not when you're playing with ten-men because of it though.

[Francis Albert]

Not when you're playing with ten-men because of it though.

 

 

Well playing with an extra man. If there are two on Temps and you take them and Temps out of the equation, it's 10 against 9 (or 9 against 8 outfield players).

[Gregory House M.D.]

Well playing with an extra man. If there are two on Temps and you take them and Temps out of the equation, it's 10 against 9 (or 9 against 8 outfield players).

 

Yeah, I suppose.

[Feeno]

You know that players train? With a football? He could work on stuff there. Crazy, but might just work! Oh and see below for further clarification and more sense.

 

 

And then Temps would get a go at the tired legs. Everyone's a winner!

 

Oh, I'm good Feeno. Go on, say it, you know it's true!

 

Let's gang up on HGW, that'll be more fun!

 

They do but until the put into practice in the game itself then we never know do we, you are better than that!

 

HGW you are an embarrassment to the people of East Lothian

[redm]

David Templeton is fast becoming the most over-rated player on Kickback. On current form Novikovas is better than Templeton. Kenif makes a good point though, that he is coming on against tired legs.

 

I can't argue with you when you suggest that he's a bit of a favourite around here but seriously...you reckon you can tell Novikovas is in better form based on the whole 35 minutes over 5 matches that he's played? Until he's playing the majority of game minutes (as Temps is currently doing) you can't possibly tell whether or not he's hitting form surely? Everyone can look good in short bursts....

 

Not saying he won't, I'm just suggesting that you can't possibly yet know. Perhaps it is time to give him a shot and see though.

[TheBigO]

They do but until the put into practice in the game itself then we never know do we, you are better than that!

 

HGW you are an embarrassment to the people of East Lothian

 

Isn't he. He's one of the reasons I moved.

 

And I know that - I was just yankin yer chain. Practicing it from the bench and in the "opposition" team at training won't do him an ounce of harm though. Think we're agreed.

[TheBigO]

I can't argue with you when you suggest that he's a bit of a favourite around here but seriously...you reckon you can tell Novikovas is in better form based on the whole 35 minutes over 5 matches that he's played? Until he's playing the majority of game minutes (as Temps is currently doing) you can't possibly tell whether or not he's hitting form surely? Everyone can look good in short bursts....

 

Not saying he won't, I'm just suggesting that you can't possibly yet know. Perhaps it is time to give him a shot and see though.

 

That's pretty much where I am on the issue redm. I would say from what I've seen (and heard), Novikivas is very very very exciting and Temps maybe gets 2 verys!

 

Suso has been forgotten about in this whole debate. For me, if played in the right games, he can be as effective and sometimes moreso, than any of the other three! We have 4 cracking wingers at the club. We need to use them correctly both in how we play the game and in who we choose and rest each week.

[Gregory House M.D.]

Cheers lads

[Gregory House M.D.]

That's pretty much where I am on the issue redm. I would say from what I've seen (and heard), Novikivas is very very very exciting and Temps maybe gets 2 verys!

 

Suso has been forgotten about in this whole debate. For me, if played in the right games, he can be as effective and sometimes moreso, than any of the other three! We have 4 cracking wingers at the club. We need to use them correctly both in how we play the game and in who we choose and rest each week.

 

I'm actually hoping Suso can play central when he returns.

[TheBigO]

Cheers lads

 

Pleasure, chief

[davie1980]

 

 

Also, what would help him most in that respect (other than his own use of the ball) is a midfield which can draw players in and move the ball around. A bit of patience and moving the ball left and right and in and out can draw a marker away from a winger. Celtic are brilliant at it and have been for a while. We need to learn to do that to use our great wingers to best effect, especially at home when we'll have the bulk of possession and more onus is on us.

 

exactly

 

temps spoke of playing along side taouil in training as being a big benefit to his game, taouils range of passing, intellegent movement and one-twos with him helped open up space for him and draw defenders away.

as we know, temps likes a big striker to play off but he would also benefit with an intellegent play inside him to open doors for him. problem for me is, taouil doesn't get a start in davies team when skacel is fit and stevenson is on current form.

 

oh the dilemmas?

[TheBigO]

I'm actually hoping Suso can play central when he returns.

 

Nothing to suggest he couldn't. I wondered if he should have been used there last season at times but he just never got a run of fitness from about October onwards. Massive shame as he'd been our best player up until then.

 

Lots of people made their mind up early doors on Suso and refuse to change them. Have to admit I thought he was tosh when he arrived (got the ball, head down, into an avenue, every time) but he's worked on his game and is very good at little passing moves in tight spaces and he's a danger too when he goes at teams. Final ball improved a bit too but maybe still his weakest point.

[TheBigO]

exactly

 

temps spoke of playing along side taouil in training as being a big benefit to his game, taouils range of passing, intellegent movement and one-twos with him helped open up space for him and draw defenders away.

as we know, temps likes a big striker to play off but he would also benefit with an intellegent play inside him to open doors for him. problem for me is, taouil doesn't get a start in davies team when skacel is fit and stevenson is on current form.

 

oh the dilemmas?

 

I think that's pretty much why Mehdi was signed: to open up space for others.

 

I agree I'm not sure where he fits into the team!! At 442, where do Mehdi or Skacel fit in?? Can either play as part of a midfield 2? I'm not sure. Maybe a midfield 3 plus one winger.

 

Obua, Skacel, Mehdi and Black can all play and move very well. This can only help our wingers. Suso can do it well too, as said above.

 

Nice headache when all fit.

[Gregory House M.D.]

Nothing to suggest he couldn't. I wondered if he should have been used there last season at times but he just never got a run of fitness from about October onwards. Massive shame as he'd been our best player up until then.

 

Lots of people made their mind up early doors on Suso and refuse to change them. Have to admit I thought he was tosh when he arrived (got the ball, head down, into an avenue, every time) but he's worked on his game and is very good at little passing moves in tight spaces and he's a danger too when he goes at teams. Final ball improved a bit too but maybe still his weakest point.

Yeah, I think Suso could be a fantastic CM if he can control his temper, he's a tad slower than the other wingers and his final balls not so good. He can sometimes be lazy but given the right motivation (and a latin manager who I'd think will understand the basics of Spanish) he could become a box-to-box CM. His passing is good, he has skill, he's direct, his tacklings decent but could be improved and he can score goals.

[redm]

That's pretty much where I am on the issue redm. I would say from what I've seen (and heard), Novikivas is very very very exciting and Temps maybe gets 2 verys!

 

Suso has been forgotten about in this whole debate. For me, if played in the right games, he can be as effective and sometimes moreso, than any of the other three! We have 4 cracking wingers at the club. We need to use them correctly both in how we play the game and in who we choose and rest each week.

 

Yes. I keep hearing that Novikovas is very very very exciting and sure, there are wee flashes of skill or precision or speed every now and then but I'm still sitting waiting patiently for that 'out my seat' moment. I'm hopeful that it'll come once he gets a run in the team. I'm determined to withhold judgement until we've seen enough of him and we haven't yet had that. I'm getting quite impatient though, I want to know where all these very excitings come from.

 

And yes, couldn't agree more about Suso. I really like him as a player and sometimes think he's far more of a wee terrier than any of the others we have in his position. He's stronger, he's a bit more solid, he's relentless and seems to be a visibly awkward thorn in the side of opposition whenever he plays. He's a right pest, in short. I miss that. Hopefully he's back soon, it's all very well taking on your man and doing sweet little tricks and flicks but the youngsters could do with paying a little more attention to the sort of game he plays imo.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

Have not seen all the games this season, but there might be a case for taking him out the firing line if things are not really going his way.

 

That said, he is our most dangerous player and I think opponents have worked that out as well. For such a young player, he has too much responsibility put on him to perform.