henry Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 The problem is the type of players jeff signed and were already at the club, the teams full of hammer throwers other than the odd player. We are desperate for players than can look after the ball and that are easy on the eye, we cant keep the ball for any length of time. Jims tactics were to get the ball forward quickly and get the ball into the box as often as he could and that meant no variation on freekicks or throw ins, long throws into box and freekicks from every position was his way of doing things. Utd showed us at times how to pass and move and we were left chasing shadows. All our players are too similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 He will need time to get us to play his way but that doesn't mean we should play shoite in between. The players need to have a word with themselves They had an easy game thursday then play shoite sunday its not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissthebadge Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 We have the players, it's just that they haven't been trained to play that way. Do people believe that Motherwell or Kilmarnock, teams that seem to pass the ball better than us, have better players than us? They may seem better players but it's mainly because they've been taught how to play that way and they carry out that task well. Look at John Sutton as another example -almost 20 goals last season yet he looks like a complete carthorse in our team. Surely he hasn't become pump during pre-season. He obviously has strengths, we just need to work out how to play to them. I'm getting a bit tired of the Bruno chat. He left us because he refused to accept a contract on reduced terms, who says he would be willing to accept them now?? Because he loves our club? Because he thinks he owes us one after we paid his medical bills prior to him doing one at the end if the season? No. He chose to play in Cyprus, because they presumably paid him more cash. Not doubting we need a Bruno-type player but let's just calm the Aguiar is God chat. He was a nobody when we signed him and by all accounts he's hardly set the world stage alight. There will be hundreds of players like him out there, the problem is finding them. The manager is our biggest hope as the current scouting system is practically non-existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 We are only asking for players to pass the ball on the ground as 1st option and go long if nothing else is on. Players must make runs to free spaces when they dont have the ball. Its basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojeff Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 We had the man for the Job, remember lazlo's reign, watching nade roll about the pitch!!. We have at least 5 new players this season and JJ only got 2 games to bring them together, why give sergio time when we never got to see this team gel under JJ. We have made a massive mistake, european style of football dosent work in the SPL. Vlad has done it this time, JJ's record against the hobos says it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 We have the players, it's just that they haven't been trained to play that way. Do people believe that Motherwell or Kilmarnock, teams that seem to pass the ball better than us, have better players than us? They may seem better players but it's mainly because they've been taught how to play that way and they carry out that task well. Look at John Sutton as another example -almost 20 goals last season yet he looks like a complete carthorse in our team. Surely he hasn't become pump during pre-season. He obviously has strengths, we just need to work out how to play to them. I'm getting a bit tired of the Bruno chat. He left us because he refused to accept a contract on reduced terms, who says he would be willing to accept them now?? Because he loves our club? Because he thinks he owes us one after we paid his medical bills prior to him doing one at the end if the season? No. He chose to play in Cyprus, because they presumably paid him more cash. Not doubting we need a Bruno-type player but let's just calm the Aguiar is God chat. He was a nobody when we signed him and by all accounts he's hardly set the world stage alight. There will be hundreds of players like him out there, the problem is finding them. The manager is our biggest hope as the current scouting system is practically non-existent. I remember thinking in 2006 that bruno was just an average player because of the players that were starting, then put in a weakened team he looked brilliant! I also think proffesionals should be able to pass the ball about better than our players do at the moment,its like a joiner who cant use a saw properly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skene11 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I think Zal gets quite a bit of unfair stick in regards to his passing. A lot of our best moves start with Zal breaking from the back and threading balls inside the opposition fullbacks. The big problem playing football from the back is we have no one in midfield who is good enough to take the ball in make passes. I 100% agree with this. Zal is actually good with the ball, he's composed, and although he doesn't always make the right pass, the idea is always right. I'm quite happy for Zal to be the 'passing' defender and Jonsson to stick with the basics. It's a good balance. The problem today was that we had THREE defensive midfielders playing, all of them were only comfortable passing the ball back and getting stuck in - this is a bad balance. We were crying out for a player like Rudi to be sitting in between their defence and midfield ready to turn and play a killer ball or take a shot. As much as I love Stevenson's hard work and engine, he is not a striker. Too many times he was coming short for the ball when he needs to be running in behind. I know there was nothing we could do today as we are very short of strikers, I think we need Elliott back badly. I completely support what Sergio is trying to do with the team, I love his idea of passing the ball from back to front, as this is the way football should be played, it's the future, but until we get the right balance throughout the team we will end up with high possession rates, and nothing to show for it. Sergio needs time to turn these ideas into practice, and I'll support these performances until we get it right. In Sergio I trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 You cannae pass if no one will show. The movement in the side is non-existent at the moment and that's why the majority of the first half was Kello short to Zaliukas, Zaliukas back to Kello, Kello short to Zaliukas (repeat to fade). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Jesus Christ. 3 games into a season everyone was delighted with the players we brought in and the direction we were heading and we're all of a sudden looking to play with flair and our players are gash. The OP also uses every single opportunity to have a go at JJ in one way or the other. You didn't like him, he's gone. Get over it mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoussetsShorts Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 hopefully the club will learn in future about these pre season 'fitness camps'. Its laughable that JJ thought Gullane sands style 'beastings' are still relevant in modern football. It has been well proven that all this does in increase chances of injury and leaves the players fatigued before they've even kicked off, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Paul's Ray Bans Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 We need to try and convert one of Mrowiec, Black or Hamill into a ball-playing midfielder; ideally these guys should be the hard nut in the centre of midfield, winnig balls and distributing. Nothing fancy, but just a willingness to demand the ball and move it on, as well as focussing on being the defensive cog in the midfield machine. Hopefully, Denis will learn this as well. But I will echo what many on here are saying - NEED a creative midfielder. I like Taouil, but he isn't proven yet. Only time will tell with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Its not the actual passing that is bad, all of them can pass - it's the movement before and after a pass that?s the problem. Last season when Kyle was fit the midfield always had an out ball - basically fire it at Kyle and let him hold the ball till the rest caught up, no coincidence that since his injury we've hardly won a game. They don't have that now so we have to create space and work hard for goals, the ball to the winger and watch him beat 3 men isn't working and is predictable, the long ball isn't working as no one is there to hold it up so we become very static and easy to shut down. We need someone mobile in midfield who can move the opposition around, they don?t have to be on the ball constantly they just need to create space in central area?s so we can move the ball in different directions as opposed to the wide pass which teams are shutting out now. If you are the manager of any other team in the SPL, it?s not difficult to set a game plan out against Hearts ? stop it going wide, let the two central midfielders step up the park dispossess us in your own half and you have a totally out of shape team to go through. However when we do press hard and get the balls wide we can be effective, eg. Ibrox - but one change to that Rangers team - (Davis going central) left us struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMc Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 We need to try and convert one of Mrowiec, Black or Hamill into a ball-playing midfielder; ideally these guys should be the hard nut in the centre of midfield, winnig balls and distributing. Nothing fancy, but just a willingness to demand the ball and move it on, as well as focussing on being the defensive cog in the midfield machine. Hopefully, Denis will learn this as well. But I will echo what many on here are saying - NEED a creative midfielder. I like Taouil, but he isn't proven yet. Only time will tell with him. Its not the actual passing that is bad, all of them can pass - it's the movement before and after a pass that?s the problem. Last season when Kyle was fit the midfield always had an out ball - basically fire it at Kyle and let him hold the ball till the rest caught up, no coincidence that since his injury we've hardly won a game. They don't have that now so we have to create space and work hard for goals, the ball to the winger and watch him beat 3 men isn't working and is predictable, the long ball isn't working as no one is there to hold it up so we become very static and easy to shut down. We need someone mobile in midfield who can move the opposition around, they don?t have to be on the ball constantly they just need to create space in central area?s so we can move the ball in different directions as opposed to the wide pass which teams are shutting out now. If you are the manager of any other team in the SPL, it?s not difficult to set a game plan out against Hearts ? stop it going wide, let the two central midfielders step up the park dispossess us in your own half and you have a totally out of shape team to go through. However when we do press hard and get the balls wide we can be effective, eg. Ibrox - but one change to that Rangers team - (Davis going central) left us struggling. Interesting posts guys.I wonder if teaching the old dogs new tricks will be new tricks will be the way forward? Reading your posts in quick succession made me wonder if Paulo might find it easier to train some of the young lads to his style of play. Maybe the crop of midfileders coming up might get the most benefit of change in style? They should be more energetic and learn quicker. Could this even be part of the plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yabadabadoo1874again Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I think Zal gets quite a bit of unfair stick in regards to his passing. A lot of our best moves start with Zal breaking from the back and threading balls inside the opposition fullbacks. The big problem playing football from the back is we have no one in midfield who is good enough to take the ball in make passes. Totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Paul's Ray Bans Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Interesting posts guys.I wonder if teaching the old dogs new tricks will be new tricks will be the way forward? Reading your posts in quick succession made me wonder if Paulo might find it easier to train some of the young lads to his style of play. Maybe the crop of midfileders coming up might get the most benefit of change in style? They should be more energetic and learn quicker. Could this even be part of the plan? Great point, been thinking along those lines as well. If Paulo is given enough time, surely Denis and Holt among others will develop more technically than just physically. One thing Hearts does better than anyone else, IMO, is develop promising youngsters. But we don't capitalise as much as we should on them, which is disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five to One Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I dont give a monkeys HOW we play! There are only 2 areas that matter in a football pitch - the 18 yard boxes. When the ball comes into your 18 yard box, you have to defend it I agree we need to be more incisive up front, but I don't agree with your golf analogy. If you're hitting the ball well on the golf course you have more chance of scoring better. It's the same in football. Pass it well and the chances will come. Just takes time and I'm glad the new manager wants us to adopt this style of play. When its in the opposition box, you have to attack it and score a goal. Against Dundee Utd and Motherwell we failed miserably to do either. Hearts winning is all I care about, its a bit like golf - its not how, its how many! Why do we have to complicate a fairly simple game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winston churchill Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Trying to teach our players how to play a passing game.................. is like asking the ecky thump colliery band to play classical music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Jesus Christ. 3 games into a season everyone was delighted with the players we brought in and the direction we were heading and we're all of a sudden looking to play with flair and our players are gash. Yip. If this thread had appeared on Hibs.net we'd have a 10 pager ripping them a new one. It's fecking mesmeric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morse Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Trying to teach our players how to play a passing game.................. is like asking the ecky thump colliery band to play classical music Going Home based on the Largo from the New World Symphony by Dvorak is often played by colliery bands, so there's hope yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Trying to teach our players how to play a passing game.................. is like asking the ecky thump colliery band to play classical music Not too bad at all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I dont give a monkeys HOW we play! There are only 2 areas that matter in a football pitch - the 18 yard boxes. When the ball comes into your 18 yard box, you have to defend it. When its in the opposition box, you have to attack it and score a goal. Against Dundee Utd and Motherwell we failed miserably to do either. Hearts winning is all I care about, its a bit like golf - its not how, its how many! Why do we have to complicate a fairly simple game? Is it as easy as that is it? Just gie PS his P45, print this and give it tae the Hearts team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someday Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Our player's movement is poor. They run away from the ball instead of making themselves easily available, it's down to laziness and low intelligence. For God's sake even St.Mirren are passing the ball properly this season so why can't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Is it as easy as that is it? Just gie PS his P45, print this and give it tae the Hearts team. I never suggested it was easy, my point is the areas that matter in a football match. The majority of goals are scored within the 18 yard box. When we had our excellent spell last season taking 31 out of 33 points, I don't recall people moaning we weren't passing the ball enough..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Our player's movement is poor. They run away from the ball instead of making themselves easily available, it's down to laziness and low intelligence. For God's sake even St.Mirren are passing the ball properly this season so why can't we? It is also a confidence thing as well when it is low then nobody wants to take the responsibilty but when it is high as it was in the second half against Paks then players are happy to come looking for the ball. This is the time when we could do with a seasoned pro in the middle of the park who is not frightened to take the ball and make the passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy's sock Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Trying to teach our players how to play a passing game.................. is like asking the ecky thump colliery band to play classical music Well, that never worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Doody Jambo Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Its the one footed professional football players we have at the club that are a disgrace , no excuse ''Oh i have to get it on my right foot as i can't kick with my left '' attitude rips ma knitting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissthebadge Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Its the one footed professional football players we have at the club that are a disgrace , no excuse ''Oh i have to get it on my right foot as i can't kick with my left '' attitude rips ma knitting Probably the main reason I was happy to see Palazuelos go. Ridiculously one-footed and was incapable of passing whilst running - SPL may have been his level, a typical Spanish footballer he ain't! Its actually baffling how many of our squad seem incapable of controlling the ball or passing the ball whilst on the move - it shows at the minute when our team try to pass the ball around, they're all standing still when passing AND receiving!! Possibly the easiest thing to play against. No requirement to run around chasing the ball and any slight closing down of our players will inevitably result in them being caught in possession or a rushed misplaced pass. Whilst I agree these things can be worked on in training, most of it should have come when these boys were 12 years old, not 10 years later! Maybe its a confidence thing as Wavydavy suggests but if you cant already take confidence from the fact that your a professional footballer playing in the SPL for a great team, getting paid lots of money to do so, it's time to go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 He will never make McGowan, Jonsson, Zaliukas or Mrowiec into good passers of the ball. PS needs to find a couple of mobile stikers because Sutton and Stevenson are as stiff as John Holmes during working hours. Thing is, they don't need to become like Glenn Hoddle, the just need to play in a team where they can always find a team-mate in a position to receive the ball. Maybe it would be nice to have a player who can open defences up with one 50 yard pass but it's not the be all and end all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flogel98 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 i believe we have a top coach but you can not polish a turd vlad show him the money No but you can roll it in glitter...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojack Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Thank you "Deevers", I enjoyed listening to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I'd like to see us continue to try to play in the right way. It's worth it IMO. I hope the club and team ignore the football dinosaurs in the stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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