Marvin Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Where would we all be had Waldo been successful in his take over of the wee team. Would we now been posting in Edinburgh City Kickback? Would Edinburgh United be playing in Europe. Would we all be supporting such a hypothetical team(s). And would we still be at Tynie today or would we be playing out at Hermiston or such like. Personally I was against the takeover although I loved winding up the hibbies and probably would have followed rugby instead. Anyone have any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 The wee team and all their supporters would have splintered off and reformed as Edinburgh Hibernian FC or something of that ilk - they'd probably be in the SPL as a bottom 6 team with an inferior record in derby matches with HMFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 We would have just swallowed them up and stayed HMFC imo. Like Charlie says, they would have started again. Best of it is we were doing the ungrateful ****s a favour. They wouldn't exist if Wallace hadn't tried to buy them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Crane Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 At the time, I wished Wallace had just put in bids for Goram and Collins. I do like my derby days and while I know some Hearts fans wanted Hibs wiped out, seasons without a derby would have left an empty feeling. We wouldn't have had 2/4/06 for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 It's a funny one. As I recall there would have been no Edinburgh United (or whatever) and it would've just been Heart of Midlothian. Perhaps we would have been playing to full houses at Murrayfield and had a few Champions League nights due to winning the league a few times. Who knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 It's a funny one. As I recall there would have been no Edinburgh United (or whatever) and it would've just been Heart of Midlothian. Perhaps we would have been playing to full houses at Murrayfield and had a few Champions League nights due to winning the league a few times. Who knows! I'm sure the GFA would have found a way to stop their beloved Rantic losing out on the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 We would have just swallowed them up and stayed HMFC imo. Like Charlie says, they would have started again. Best of it is we were doing the ungrateful ****s a favour. They wouldn't exist if Wallace hadn't tried to buy them Thats true because it was Mercer who exposed the Duff Brothers :lol: for the pair of useless idiots that they were. And if it wasn't for our late owner then I very much doubt the hibbies would be about today. I posted a similar post on the Hobos.net forum and got a lifetime ban Truth hurts eh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Lighter Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 IIRC Wallace was asked at the time what the name of the merged club would be and he said that he would combine the names ie Heart Of Midlothian from us and Football Club from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 It was an woeful, botched plan by Mercer. For starters, did he really think that we'd gain all that extra support? Hibs would've simply started again and eventually secure a stadium of some sorts, somewhere. All Wallace managed to do was galvanize Hibs, who had been absolutely terrible for over 15 years - a year later, they won the Skol Cup. And just months after this attempted takeover bid, Mercer admitted that Hearts were close to being ?3M in debt. Twenty one years later, we never got on top on that. Mercer is a hero on Kickback, but trust me: from 1990 onwards, all the fans I knew wanted rid of him. Read No Idle Talk or Always the Bridesmaid from that time and you'll see what I mean. Trying to buy Hibs was his greatest error. The greatest irony in all of this is that Hibs fans hate him. Wallace Mercer saved their dumb asses. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Mercer is a hero on Kickback, but trust me: from 1990 onwards, all the fans I knew wanted rid of him. Read No Idle Talk or Always the Bridesmaid from that time and you'll see what I mean. This. There has been a great airbrushing of history regarding the Great Waldo. I think on balance he comes out as a "good guy", but those final "bunker days" were woeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 It was a plan by Edinburgh property developers Wallace Mercer and the Miller Group (Hearts sponsors) to grab the substantial land around Fester Road which was moslty all vacant at that time at a substantial discount to it's developed value - Sir Tom Farmer cottoned on to this and stepped in as Hibs White Knight - all that land is now developed into Flats, Houses and Business Units today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 It was an woeful, botched plan by Mercer. For starters, did he really think that we'd gain all that extra support? Hibs would've simply started again and eventually secure a stadium of some sorts, somewhere. All Wallace managed to do was galvanize Hibs, who had been absolutely terrible for over 15 years - a year later, they won the Skol Cup. And just months after this attempted takeover bid, Mercer admitted that Hearts were close to being ?3M in debt. Twenty one years later, we never got on top on that. Mercer is a hero on Kickback, but trust me: from 1990 onwards, all the fans I knew wanted rid of him. Read No Idle Talk or Always the Bridesmaid from that time and you'll see what I mean. Trying to buy Hibs was his greatest error. The greatest irony in all of this is that Hibs fans hate him. Wallace Mercer saved their dumb asses. . Absolutely All the fans on here who hero worship the Great Waldo obviously weren't there back in the day where he got stick from Hearts fans week in week out It wasn't just at the end of his tenure - he was just as unpopular back in his early days when we were in the first division His "Dear Customer" articles in the match programme really used to piss me off We are "supporters" not "customers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One flew over Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Fat Tory b*****d always springs to mind when the great Waldo is discussed. Time changes things and peoples views mellow, all in a force for good but not without his flaws! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandt Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Did our debt kick off back then due to us showing a game live European game (somehow), Austria Vienna i think without permission and we got a hefty fine which Mercer chose not to pay and it got doubled? Remember hearing something like that back then. IIRC, we had a couple of home games in a row, Airdrie & Dundee of them where we charged kids ?1 entry. Getting beat of the former had a huge crowd going mad at the entrance to the main stand. Think it wasnt long after that Mercer packed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Crane Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 However, I would have loved to have seen the expressions on the faces of Duff and Gray when they were introduced to Hibs' (ahem) "new owner"! BTW - Buffalo Bill is correct. I remember the vocal demo after a poor home defeat to Airdrie late in 1992. I think people see him in a good light now is down to his successor, Chris Robinson (who painted a very good picture of himself at the start), making himself even more unpopular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Let's not forget also that Wallace did a great job at the start, and pretty much saved the club from going bust. From 1981-1986, he - along with our superb management team - got a lot right. But he just never quite tapped into that upsurge. Our big summer buy in 1986 was Wayne Foster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Did our debt kick off back then due to us showing a game live European game (somehow), Austria Vienna i think without permission and we got a hefty fine which Mercer chose not to pay and it got doubled? Remember hearing something like that back then. I think the fine was due to the Bayern Munich game, which went from around ?30,000 to over ?100,000 because lost an appeal. I'm not sure if the Hibs 'takeover' came out of club coffers? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imeantasong Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Did our debt kick off back then due to us showing a game live European game (somehow), Austria Vienna i think without permission and we got a hefty fine which Mercer chose not to pay and it got doubled? Remember hearing something like that back then. IIRC, we had a couple of home games in a row, Airdrie & Dundee of them where we charged kids ?1 entry. Getting beat of the former had a huge crowd going mad at the entrance to the main stand. Think it wasnt long after that Mercer packed up. Bayern Munich home tie. A fine and (I think) a live TV ban for next home Euro game? Think that may be why we couldn't get the Slavia Prague tie televised (and so video'd it ourselves and sold it with a dubbed Archie McPherson commentary). Maybe not that game but can't be bothered checking my dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Crane Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Let's not forget also that Wallace did a great job at the start, and pretty much saved the club from going bust. From 1981-1986, he - along with our superb management team - got a lot right. But he just never quite tapped into that upsurge. Our big summer buy in 1986 was Wayne Foster. Didn't John Brown hold Wallace responsible for ensuring his move from Dundee to Hearts fell through. I remember that being a done deal until something happened at the last minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imeantasong Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Didn't John Brown hold Wallace responsible for ensuring his move from Dundee to Hearts fell through. I remember that being a done deal until something happened at the last minute Failed medical. Heart problem? To be fair, maybe we weren't in a financial position to take a risk. Certainly was a big missed opportunity as it turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 It would've facilitated there being a new, consistent power bloc in Scottish football capable of challenging the Old Firm in terms of supporters and in terms of cash flow. In business sense and on paper it would've worked perfectly. I'm actually sure that given the choice of going all the way through to Celtic Park, supporting (then) Meadowbank Thistle or whoever else, most Hibs fans after 3 or 4 seasons would've settled for HMFC(EUF/ECFC) at a new build, 25-30,000 seater stadium. It would have made Scotland more like Holland, with at least 3 well supported teams, capable of affording big wages and challenging for the league. It may have also forced Dundee Utd and Dundee to look at their options and possibly merge to be a stronger force too. But then again it could've flopped on the Hibs front and they following Meadowbank Thistle (later livi) and make them a stronger team in the long run. From those I know from down-south and even those I know who really like football but aren't strong fans of specific clubs, they say it would have been a good idea to create a three way title race most seasons, help establish a strong, non-Glasgow based presence, and would have lead to more cups, leagues and european nights being through in the Capital, instead of through west. As I was very young then, I'd have still backed the club, even if the name changed. And I have to say even today if there was to be a merger, I'd probably still back the Edinburgh team, as long as the shirts weren't green and the name Hibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Crane Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Failed medical. Heart problem? To be fair, maybe we weren't in a financial position to take a risk. Certainly was a big missed opportunity as it turned out. Don't think it was finances as - IIRC - 400k was the figure being mooted (most of which was used 12 months later for BIg Dave). Brown was apparently pretty irate with Wallace in particular for it falling through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Mercer is a hero on Kickback, but trust me: from 1990 onwards, all the fans I knew wanted rid of him. Read No Idle Talk or Always the Bridesmaid from that time and you'll see what I mean. Fat Tory *******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alicante jambo Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Airdrie the only things i remmber about that lot is them beating us in semi finals/parking miles from their dump of a ground and hibs beating them in a playoff to stay in the premier league.Jimmy sandieson/kenny black and alan lewrence springs to mind as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I think the fine was due to the Bayern Munich game, which went from around ?30,000 to over ?100,000 because lost an appeal. I'm not sure if the Hibs 'takeover' came out of club coffers? . All your posts have been spot on on this thread BB. The costs of ?400+ were put onto the HMFC books as with the botched Millerhill stadium proposals(?250K). Another fallacy being that he built the stadium, NO it was all added to the club debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 It would've facilitated there being a new, consistent power bloc in Scottish football capable of challenging the Old Firm in terms of supporters and in terms of cash flow. In business sense and on paper it would've worked perfectly. I'm actually sure that given the choice of going all the way through to Celtic Park, supporting (then) Meadowbank Thistle or whoever else, most Hibs fans after 3 or 4 seasons would've settled for HMFC(EUF/ECFC) at a new build, 25-30,000 seater stadium. It would have made Scotland more like Holland, with at least 3 well supported teams, capable of affording big wages and challenging for the league. It may have also forced Dundee Utd and Dundee to look at their options and possibly merge to be a stronger force too. But then again it could've flopped on the Hibs front and they following Meadowbank Thistle (later livi) and make them a stronger team in the long run. From those I know from down-south and even those I know who really like football but aren't strong fans of specific clubs, they say it would have been a good idea to create a three way title race most seasons, help establish a strong, non-Glasgow based presence, and would have lead to more cups, leagues and european nights being through in the Capital, instead of through west. As I was very young then, I'd have still backed the club, even if the name changed. And I have to say even today if there was to be a merger, I'd probably still back the Edinburgh team, as long as the shirts weren't green and the name Hibs I can't accept the idea that any Hibs fan would simply switch over to supporting HMFC. Can you imagine the thought of it the other way round? An 'Edinburgh United', attracting 10,000 (mostly kids), rattling around a 30,000 stadium near Straiton would never compare to a strong HMFC, should we ever get our shit together, with us resident in a 25,000 seater stadium. Hearts can tap into a dormant support that every so often rears its head (21,000 season ticket applications in the summer of 2006). We just need to get good, not amazing, just good - to dispel the need for an invented Edinburgh franchise. I hope that one day we will get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychocAndy Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 When he bought us, if I remember correctly, it was between him and some Hibby guy, and I welcomed him. After a couple of seasons I wanted him away. He was a showman and did a hell of a lot of good for Heart of Midlothian Football Club and I remember the good things, but the Hibs buy out was just moronic. Doomed to failure and save them from going tits up. I'm no business man but buy the land from a folded club must have been the cheaper option than buying them and merging us. Also, as said, they would have done what Airdrie United fans done and take over a Clydebank and re-brand it for themselves. Wallace Mercer, saviour of Heart of Midlothian F.C. and Hibernian F.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy2 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Deary me, and folk think we're ungrateful to Vlad! I accept folk have their opinions of him, with respect to his headline hogging and his politics but when I was 7 or 8 years old, about 3 years after my Dad had introduced me to the mighty HMFC, the club was in serious, serious danger of closing it's doors for the final time. Kenny Waugh, the Hibby bookie wanted us and to be fair nobody knew where that would've led. However, Donald Ford I think it was, didn't fancy it much and asked Wallace Mercer to step in. He did and we went from yo-yo team to an established Premier League team in less than 3 years. Sure, he did things I hated like around the time he refused John Robertson a grand a week, he decided to award himself a ?160K "consultancy fee" each year paid as a salary (IIRC), he bought the offices on McLeod Street then tried to sell them back to Hearts for ten times as much and then there was the Hibs fiasco. These decisions were so wrong but in the end I have to accept my hatred was like a son would have for a father whenever he didn't get his own way. It passes because let's be honest, like a father if it wasn't for Waldo we wouldn't be here. Would anyone have had the foresight or passion in 1981 to have started a "new" HMFC? I'm not so sure because the odd occasion apart our crowds were on a par with a decent Ayrshire junior game. Watch "Back From The Brink" if you get the chance. It's a shameless pat yourself on the back exercise from the Mercer propoganda machine but it's more or less as I remember things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 When he bought us, if I remember correctly, it was between him and some Hibby guy, and I welcomed him. After a couple of seasons I wanted him away. He was a showman and did a hell of a lot of good for Heart of Midlothian Football Club and I remember the good things, but the Hibs buy out was just moronic. Doomed to failure and save them from going tits up. I'm no business man but buy the land from a folded club must have been the cheaper option than buying them and merging us. Also, as said, they would have done what Airdrie United fans done and take over a Clydebank and re-brand it for themselves. Wallace Mercer, saviour of Heart of Midlothian F.C. and Hibernian F.C. That seeems to be taken as read now but there was no precedent for clubs starting again at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 That seeems to be taken as read now but there was no precedent for clubs starting again at that time. Middlesboro effectively closed down and then started again as a new business in 1986. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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