Walter Smith

[wibble]

Grumpy old **** wins a 2 horse race when his competition is a paranoid yokel - "legned" indeed.

 

HANS, thou art a ****.

[Goldstone Wonder]

Got an incredibly easy ride from the Weegia when he left Scotland in the lurch. He'll have done very well to win the last 3 league championships if he's successful, but that says more about how badly managed Celtic have been than anything. A decent manager but not a great one. Much less odious than Neil Lennon, but then again so is Pol Pot.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Goodbye to the cringeworthy use of "Walter" in the weegia.

 

Otherwise, I couldn't care less.

[Gabriel]

Goodbye to Rangers, but he apparently wants to try his hand in England again. I'm sure I heard recently that he fancies another shot there, so perhaps he will surface again next year.

[siegementality]

Whilst WS cannot be described as a legend, he is a very, very good manager. I've always thought he has, with the exception of a few times, conducted himself in a professional and respectful manner.

 

It will be interesting to see the comments his peers in the game make about him in the next few weeks, some how I don't think they'll reflect this thread.

 

 

Some of the comments on this thread confirm my thoughts that JKB is occupied by mainly 12 year olds nowadays.

[Erik]

It was a fitting send of for the man last night - as Shaun correctly states, you simply cannot overlook the guys record and what he's done at Rangers.

 

His send off last night also served to show the difference in class between the two halves of the old firm.

[TheBigO]

Everton had been in serious trouble for years: it's actually Howard Kendall and Mike Walker who almost relegated them. Much of his subsequent difficulties there were down to the poisonous battle between Peter Johnson and Bill Kenwright for ownership of the club.

 

My view of Smith's time at Goodison is simple: someone had to do the night shift, and things would probably have been an awful lot worse under most managers. Then he transformed Scotland's fortunes pretty much out of nothing; then, against a hideous off-field backdrop, he returned Rangers to the top of the Scottish game, and even reached a European final en route.

 

Overrated? If anyone tries comparing him with Scotland's true all time managerial greats (Ferguson, Stein, Shankly, Busby), then yes; but he occupies a position as a great manager in his own right. If they do the needful at Rugby Park, ten league titles can't be dismissed by anyone, I'm afraid.

 

Total myth Shaun. The media never accepted Berti, even though he was left with eff all to work with cos of media fave Craig Brown. The WS took over, had a worse competitive record than Berti and, media fave that he is - was lauded for it.

 

Let's not forget that one of the first things Walter Smith did as Scotland boss was to drop Craig Gordon for Rab Douglas. That Berti had capped lots of young players like Faddy and Fletcher was all that was the making of Smith's team. By inviting Weir back into the fold, you could also argue that he fuelled the current vogue of players flitting in and out of the set-up as and when they feel they have an issue.

 

Not overly defending Berti, but to suggest Smith "transformed our fortunes out of nothing" simply isn't true. He didn't transform them and he didn't have nothing. And lets not forget he shat on us.

 

He's been holding the rest of Scottish football back for nigh on 20 years and I'm massively glad to see the back of him.

 

Doesn't want the u21 on the bench rule. Doesn't want a reserve league. Doesn't want the new financing on signing youths from other clubs... list goes on. He's been of great service to Rangers - and that's been the man's job - but he's been of little to no benefit to Scottish football, in fact he, in tow with his superiors have actinvely kept the SFA as it is and that is so typically OFish yet sickening all the same.

[Jimmy Powell]

Or as the Rangers fans put it

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bunch of Roasters the lot of them!!!

[The Gasman]

I think he's a grumpy curmudgeon.....

 

Probably a safe bet he's never been called that before!

[Tynie b]

Walter Smith is an Auld ****. I hate him and the institution that is Hunbrox. As for the "Mini Huns" on this thread (H.A.N.S) **** off to your proper message board...Your taste in teams is only beaten by your lack of Horse racing knowledge

 

 

I thought Trolling was against board rules anyway!?

[jumpship]

What's the bets we get an hour long documentary (fronted by Chick Young) on Walter Smith amazing managerial career!!!

 

A true Rangers/Scotland Legned sickfest . .

[Vlad-Stupid]

Or as the Rangers fans put it

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bunch of Roasters the lot of them!!!

 

what a bunch of wallopers

[Vlad-Stupid]

It was a fitting send of for the man last night - as Shaun correctly states, you simply cannot overlook the guys record and what he's done at Rangers.

 

His send off last night also served to show the difference in class between the two halves of the old firm.

 

Rangers have class?

[rossthejambo]

He's done a good job at Rangers, was alright as Scotland boss until he fecked off to return "home".

 

Let's not forget that this "great" manager spent over a million pound on the barrel with legs James Beattie.

 

He's a walloper and I hope he gets a job elsewhere next season so I don't need to see or hear about him on a regular basis.

[Johnpp]

and his side have been a violent, thuggish lot

 

I'm afraid no fan of a club which regularly gives Ian Black a starting berth can accuse any other club of being violent or thuggish.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Exactly.

 

Wattie then went to Everton and was a total disaster - although you'd never know it when you see his record on SSN tonight - and was effectively booted out of Goodison.

 

The period with him in charge at Everton was shit beyond belief.

 

Check out this honking line-up from his last merseyside derby: Simonsen, Clarke, Weir, Stubbs, Pistone, Gemmill, Carsley, Linderoth, Naysmith, Campbell, Ginola.

[Vlad-Stupid]

I'm afraid no fan of a club which regularly gives Ian Black a starting berth can accuse any other club of being violent or thuggish.

 

Oh hai Nikica Jelavic!

[Ray Gin]

Why on earth would you post this on a Hearts forum?

[Diego10]

He's done a good job. he's still a throbber. No being Neil Lennon doesn't mean you qualify for hero status. His ' it's no fair, Hearts are allowed to spend money and we're no' rant earlier this season was comedy gold.

[rossthejambo]

I'm afraid no fan of a club which regularly gives Ian Black a starting berth can accuse any other club of being violent or thuggish.

 

Is that so?

 

Rangers are full of violent cheating arseholes, much like their brethren Celtic.

 

Oh wait look what I just did!

[Johnpp]

Oh hai Nikica Jelavic!

 

Oh hai league title!

[Diego10]

Oh hai league title!

 

Is your user name what you say to your carer at toilet time?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Oh hai league title!

 

WTF is wrong with you?

[Mysterion]

I'm afraid no fan of a club which regularly gives Ian Black a starting berth can accuse any other club of being violent or thuggish.

 

Nice try. Rangers fans are still up in arms over a tackle that no one thought was "violent" at the time. Everyone thought it was a hard tackle from behind.

 

Even Jellybitch came back on after treatment before breaking down. That alone tells you all you need to know about what the injured player thought. If he thought he was so badly injured he'd be flat out on a stretcher.

 

Black put in 1 bad tackle and is made out to be the #1 thug in Scottish football... laughable.

[chester copperpot]

We headed up to my mates flat post match, and were informed that Walter Smith couldn't say a good word about Hearts on the radio. Apparently spent the whole time moaning about our penalty, their penalty claim and how if the game had lasted another ten minutes they would have hammered* us.

 

As much as it pains me to recall this, as I hate this man also, "super" Ally was extremely gentlemanly and had a lot of nice things to say about us.

 

Walter Smith - Bad winner & bad loser.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I cannot recall the exact term that was retold to me, but it was something like hammered/thrashed/walloped or some such other crushing style of victory.

 

 

 

Show me a bad loser, and I will show you a loser.

 

I don't mind Smith TBH. He is pretty magnanimous in defeat and has more class in his little toe than that fud that is Lennon.

 

I didn't like what he did to Scotland by leaving when he did, however McLeish did the same, doesn't make it right though.

 

What he has achieved with Rangers with that shoestring budget (compared to Cellicks) is nothing short of remarkable.

 

Hopefully we can all celebrate a Hearts victory tonight in all its glory and rub it in Cellicks faces considering it hands the title to Rangers.

[Johnpp]

Nice try. Rangers fans are still up in arms over a tackle that no one thought was "violent" at the time. Everyone thought it was a hard tackle from behind.

 

Even Jellybitch came back on after treatment before breaking down. That alone tells you all you need to know about what the injured player thought. If he thought he was so badly injured he'd be flat out on a stretcher.

 

Black put in 1 bad tackle and is made out to be the #1 thug in Scottish football... laughable.

 

 

That's a deliberate attempt to kick Jelavic in the head. That's undeniable.

 

I actually don't mind Hearts at all. No particular problem with your club or fans, I was just pointed to this thread from elsewhere and the chance to respond to the accusation that our club was full of violent thugs coming from someone who supports Ian Black was too good to turn down.

 

Make the ginger toothed bigot cry tonight and you'll hold a place in my affections, at least until the next time Ian Black tries to maim one of our players.

[theo1874]

Oh hai league title!

 

 

this one can spell, most rangers fans won't understand unless its spelled as 'legaue'

 

'legned' and someone on here said there was a difference in class between the uglies

[TheBigO]

Show me a bad loser, and I will show you a loser.

 

I don't mind Smith TBH. He is pretty magnanimous in defeat and has more class in his little toe than that fud that is Lennon.

 

I didn't like what he did to Scotland by leaving when he did, however McLeish did the same, doesn't make it right though.

 

What he has achieved with Rangers with that shoestring budget (compared to Cellicks) is nothing short of remarkable.

 

Hopefully we can all celebrate a Hearts victory tonight in all its glory and rub it in Cellicks faces considering it hands the title to Rangers.

 

Bicg Eck didnt do the same. He left at the end of a campaign unlike Uncle Wattie who left mid-campaign. Eck actually turned down offers of decent jobs whilst in charge of Scotland as he didn't want to leave until then end of a campaign. Smith had no such decency yet was still painted as the hero not only in our media but many fans. nonsense.

[chester copperpot]

 

Undeniable.

 

I actually don't mind Hearts at all. No particular problem with your club or fans, I was just pointed to this thread from elsewhere and the chance to respond to the accusation that our club was full of violent thugs coming from someone who supports Ian Black was too good to turn down.

 

Make the ginger toothed bigot cry tonight and you'll hold a place in my affections, at least until the next time Ian Black tries to maim one of our players.

 

 

I fear a ban is going to happen to you my Rangers supporting friend. Ian Black emptied Jelavic, no doubt about it, however we see 3 or 4 tackles like that every week in Scottish football.

 

Incidentally, I stay very close to Lennoxtown, which is Cellicks training ground, and actually know the lad who was caught with the hand pistol outside Cellicks training ground on Sunday. He's not a bad lad, and was actuall in the woods trying to shoot some drinks cans off a ledge. Incidentally, it was nearly a mile away from Cellicks training ground.

[shaun.lawson]

Total myth Shaun. The media never accepted Berti, even though he was left with eff all to work with cos of media fave Craig Brown. The WS took over, had a worse competitive record than Berti and, media fave that he is - was lauded for it.

 

Let's not forget that one of the first things Walter Smith did as Scotland boss was to drop Craig Gordon for Rab Douglas. That Berti had capped lots of young players like Faddy and Fletcher was all that was the making of Smith's team. By inviting Weir back into the fold, you could also argue that he fuelled the current vogue of players flitting in and out of the set-up as and when they feel they have an issue.

 

Not overly defending Berti, but to suggest Smith "transformed our fortunes out of nothing" simply isn't true. He didn't transform them and he didn't have nothing. And lets not forget he shat on us.

 

He's been holding the rest of Scottish football back for nigh on 20 years and I'm massively glad to see the back of him.

 

Doesn't want the u21 on the bench rule. Doesn't want a reserve league. Doesn't want the new financing on signing youths from other clubs... list goes on. He's been of great service to Rangers - and that's been the man's job - but he's been of little to no benefit to Scottish football, in fact he, in tow with his superiors have actinvely kept the SFA as it is and that is so typically OFish yet sickening all the same.

 

It's not often that I completely disagree with you, Ian - but the above is beyond crackers.

 

Vogts made astonishingly heavy weather of finishing 2nd in a group in which Scotland's only competition was Iceland and Lithuania. Not to have finished 2nd would've constituted an historic humiliation - and you were then annihilated by the Dutch in the play-offs. In the World Cup qualifiers which followed, Scotland drew at home to Slovenia, lost disastrously at home to Norway, and drew in Moldova. Three awful results which saw you already out of contention. Exit Berti, and quite right too.

 

Vogts' competitive record was as follows:

 

P 13 W 5 D 4 L 4 F 14 A 16 Pts/game 1.46

 

Vogts 'reign' also encompassed a 6-0 shellacking in Holland, 5-0 in France, 4-0 in Wales, 4-1 v South Korea, 3-0 at home to Hungary, and a humiliating 2-2 draw in the Faeroe Islands - and under his watch, Scotland slumped to an unthinkable 86th in the world rankings. A disaster by anyone's reckoning.

 

So Smith replaced him, and looked to perform a salvage operation - but he did much more than that. A sensible structure of playing was finally developed, and big improvement occurred over the remainder of the World Cup qualifiers. Then, as fourth seeds in a group containing both World Cup finalists and a quarter-finalist, Scotland took off. Smith left you 26th in the rankings, having improved you by SIXTY PLACES for God's sake; and thanks mainly to the work he did, you stayed in contention under McLeish, eventually rising as high as 14th.

 

Smith's competitive record (largely against much stronger sides than Vogts had to deal with) was:

 

P 11 W 6 D 2 L 3 F 17 A 8 Pts/game 1.82

 

I've seen this ludicrous argument advanced before on here. It has it that, despite getting you to two major tournaments, and almost getting to another, Craig Brown was somehow the reason for all Scotland's problems since; that despite going incredibly close to qualifying from a group containing Italy and France, Smith and McLeish deserve no credit whatsoever because, like Brown, they're Largs mafia men; and that despite being a total embarrassment in every way, Vogts actually did really well (probably because he wasn't from the Largs mafia). Beyond crackers, as I said.

 

Yes, Smith ratted on Scotland - but given you comically consider Vogts' record to have been better, you should be happy Walter left for Rangers, no? Indeed: I put it to you that had Jim Jefferies, not Walter Smith, been appointed to replace Vogts, then compiled exactly the same record as Smith did, you'd be shouting about it from the rooftops. And if so, that means your opprobrium towards Smith is motivated by nothing more than personal loathing of the man. And sorry, but in debate, personal loathing is not a serious reason for criticising someone.

[Johnpp]

That's to be expected. Fans of other clubs don't last too long on Rangers boards either. I've said my piece and a ban would be reasonable.

 

In the meantime, 'mon the Hearts tonight, **** the mhanky mob and make Lennon weep into his mailbag and Scottish football will be a much happier place.

[Jambosr1985]

I agree with the OP ie was underdog, sean should stick to what he knows best...........

[Mysterion]

 

That's a deliberate attempt to kick Jelavic in the head. That's undeniable.

 

 

I can see exactly how you might think that... especially in slow motion. At full speed that was a player jumping over and mincing it. At full speed there is no way Black could have kicked him in the head without being totally obvious. He looks like he changes footing midway through the jump and looks ridiculous.

 

If Black was a thug you'd have fans revelling in it from all over the country and the media would constantly have a field day (like they did with Miko).

 

The real facts are they don't - just a small majority (or is it small minority - you can never tell with Rangers fans despite what Martin Bain claims ) of your support who cannae get over an average tackle.

 

Get a grip!

[shaun.lawson]

Grumpy old **** wins a 2 horse race when his competition is a paranoid yokel - "legned" indeed.

 

HANS, thou art a ****.

 

For your sake, I really hope you weren't one of the many posters on here a couple of months back who suggested 2nd was "there for the taking" because Rangers, with all their injuries, were about to "implode". I really, really do.

 

So people will then say: "Rangers haven't won the league! Celtic have lost it!" Except that Celtic are still heading for 92 points; and have dropped a whopping 5 points from their last 27 (including 2 at Ibrox, where a draw isn't exactly a disaster, by anyone's reckoning). That Smith's managed this despite everything going on behind the scenes, not for months, but years; and despite a painfully thin, frequently injury hit squad, is simply remarkable.

[Dean Winchester]

That's to be expected. Fans of other clubs don't last too long on Rangers boards either. I've said my piece and a ban would be reasonable.

 

In the meantime, 'mon the Hearts tonight, **** the mhanky mob and make Lennon weep into his mailbag and Scottish football will be a much happier place.

 

Don't Let the door hit you on the way out.

[Jambo Ell]

Lee McCulloch gets away with alot worse than that Ian Black tackle on a weekly basis. Or he did until his recent absence through injury. He is the biggest hatchet man in the SPL and should have collected more suspensions than he has during his time at Ibrox.

Nice try. Rangers fans are still up in arms over a tackle that no one thought was "violent" at the time. Everyone thought it was a hard tackle from behind.

 

Even Jellybitch came back on after treatment before breaking down. That alone tells you all you need to know about what the injured player thought. If he thought he was so badly injured he'd be flat out on a stretcher.

 

Black put in 1 bad tackle and is made out to be the #1 thug in Scottish football... laughable.

[Johnpp]

I can see exactly how you might think that... especially in slow motion. At full speed that was a player jumping over and mincing it. At full speed there is no way Black could have kicked him in the head without being totally obvious. He looks like he changes footing midway through the jump and looks ridiculous.

 

If Black was a thug you'd have fans revelling in it from all over the country and the media would constantly have a field day (like they did with Miko).

 

The real facts are they don't - just a small majority (or is it small minority - you can never tell with Rangers fans despite what Martin Bain claims ) of your support who cannae get over an average tackle.

 

Get a grip!

 

I hope that little mention of Bain isn't a sectarianism jibe. It'd be a shame to see a Hearts fan trying to point-score over sectarianism.

 

 

The Jelavic challenge was a shocker, but there's been plenty of evidence since then that Brown is nothing more than a hatchet man. His assault on Diouf in February was prime evidence.

 

Anyway, put the hostility to bed. I'll be supporting your lot tonight and for one night only, will be supporting Black's thuggery in the hopes that he can end Scott Brown's career with one well placed scything challenge.

[Mysterion]

Smith's managed this despite everything going on behind the scenes, not for months, but years; and despite a painfully thin, frequently injury hit squad, is simply remarkable.

 

This is my 600th post. I've saved it for you Shaun! I've added in something that's been missed out:

 

Smith's managed this despite everything going on behind the scenes, not for months, but years; and despite a painfully thin, frequently injury hit squad and over ?20mill in transfer fees is simply remarkable.

 

[TheBigO]

It's not often that I completely disagree with you, Ian - but the above is beyond crackers.

 

Vogts made astonishingly heavy weather of finishing 2nd in a group in which Scotland's only competition was Iceland and Lithuania. Not to have finished 2nd would've constituted an historic humiliation - and you were then annihilated by the Dutch in the play-offs. In the World Cup qualifiers which followed, Scotland drew at home to Slovenia, lost disastrously at home to Norway, and drew in Moldova. Three awful results which saw you already out of contention. Exit Berti, and quite right too.

 

Vogts' competitive record was as follows:

 

P 13 W 5 D 4 L 4 F 14 A 16 Pts/game 1.46

 

Vogts 'reign' also encompassed a 6-0 shellacking in Holland, 5-0 in France, 4-0 in Wales, 4-1 v South Korea, 3-0 at home to Hungary, and a humiliating 2-2 draw in the Faeroe Islands - and under his watch, Scotland slumped to an unthinkable 86th in the world rankings. A disaster by anyone's reckoning.

 

So Smith replaced him, and looked to perform a salvage operation - but he did much more than that. A sensible structure of playing was finally developed, and big improvement occurred over the remainder of the World Cup qualifiers. Then, as fourth seeds in a group containing both World Cup finalists and a quarter-finalist, Scotland took off. Smith left you 26th in the rankings, having improved you by SIXTY PLACES for God's sake; and thanks mainly to the work he did, you stayed in contention under McLeish, eventually rising as high as 14th.

 

Smith's competitive record (largely against much stronger sides than Vogts had to deal with) was:

 

P 11 W 6 D 2 L 3 F 17 A 8 Pts/game 1.82

 

I've seen this ludicrous argument advanced before on here. It has it that, despite getting you to two major tournaments, and almost getting to another, Craig Brown was somehow the reason for all Scotland's problems since; that despite going incredibly close to qualifying from a group containing Italy and France, Smith and McLeish deserve no credit whatsoever because, like Brown, they're Largs mafia men; and that despite being a total embarrassment in every way, Vogts actually did really well (probably because he wasn't from the Largs mafia). Beyond crackers, as I said.

 

Yes, Smith ratted on Scotland - but given you comically consider Vogts' record to have been better, you should be happy Walter left for Rangers, no? Indeed: I put it to you that had Jim Jefferies, not Walter Smith, been appointed to replace Vogts, then compiled exactly the same record as Smith did, you'd be shouting about it from the rooftops. And if so, that means your opprobrium towards Smith is motivated by nothing more than personal loathing of the man. And sorry, but in debate, personal loathing is not a serious reason for criticising someone.

 

Didn't realise I had my stats so askew and have to bow to you there. In escence, I stand by what I said above though, bonkers as it may seem.

 

Often said that Craig Brown got us to two tournaments and should be applauded. He did it with Andy Roxburgh's team and when it came time to freshen up, he hadn't blooded anyone to the extent that we then had zero chance to qualify for his next two and that is why he failed and how he left the squad in a sorry state for the next emcumbant.

 

Berti was mental and some of the players he capped were embarassing (what the hell was Tommy Burns doing in his advisory role here btw?) but he got a spirit back into the fans (I know I was there and he's largely liked by the TA) and got some young exciting players playing for us for the first time in many years.

 

Walter Smith came in and canned a lot of these players. OK he was to steady the ship, but not by taking us backwards. Craig Gordon has been Scotland's best player for a number of years but wouldn't have played under Smith had Rab Douglas not been injured. That is one example, sure, but it says a lot for me. I didn't enjoy watching us under Smith (France game apart!).

 

Also, Holland pumped us, but lets not forget we went to Holland winning from the first leg having scored a great goal involving 2 of Berti's boys, Faddy and Fletch. I doubt either would have been playing under Smith. The fact Holland gave us oor erse to play with overshadows the achievement of getting there imo and that's a shame.

 

No problem with Eck either Shaun. Served us well, with passion and didn't mind getting younger players involved when appropriate. Let us down tactically a couple of times (Georgia away still hurts!!), but naivity is OK in my book sometimes.

 

I guess my problem with Wattie is that he's "old school" Scottish football personified in almost every respect. You'll know what I mean by that. We need progressive coaches and managers in this country, especially coaching the top clubs who have sway and certainly the national team.

 

I hate Levein's tactics and not too fond of him as a guy, but he has good fresh ideas on coaching at youth level etc and isn't afraid to shout for change at the top. No self-preservation in that respect (although lots in others!) Smith doesn't seem to give one about that kind of thing as far as I can see status quo is fine as long as Rangers are 1st and Celtic are 2nd.

[shaun.lawson]

What a delightful representative of the Orcs' support johnpp is.

 

Yes John: we do have a small minority of fans who embarrass themselves. Unlike your club, where it's the vast majority who do so instead. Your club - sanctioned by UEFA for continued sectarian nonsense, yet who unbelievably keep playing the very song whose alternative lyrics UEFA punished you for on the PA system before every home match. Your fans - shaming themselves in Manchester, Villarreal and many other places besides - and don't even get me started on Vanguard Bears or the Rangers Supporters Trust...

 

Your team, which is amongst the dirtiest collection of out-and-out thugs I've ever seen on a football pitch, screaming for penalties every 5 seconds, and miraculously persuading ref after ref that no, the opponent hasn't just been scythed down - but instead, has somehow headbutted a Rangers player's elbow.

 

It happens in match after match, month after month. David Weir and Steven Whittaker embarrass themselves on an almost constant bias; Steven Naismith is a quite disgusting little nyaff. And El Hadj Diouf, one of the nastiest, most unpleasant individuals ever seen in Scottish football, is the perfect embodiment of your club.

 

We arra peepul? No. You're just a bunch of disgusting filth.

[shaun.lawson]

This is my 600th post. I've saved it for you Shaun! I've added in something that's been missed out:

 

 

 

 

Of course he's spent some money! It's impossible to achieve anything without spending at least some. But a glance at Celtic's wage bill, which is way ahead of Rangers, and a comparison off the off field positions of the two clubs when Smith returned there, provides a reminder of how amazingly well he's done.

[Mysterion]

 

Anyway, put the hostility to bed. I'll be supporting your lot tonight and for one night only, will be supporting Black's thuggery in the hopes that he can end Scott Brown's career with one well placed scything challenge.

 

No hostility round here Johnpp - just some ridiculous statements from yersel! I only deal in fact and I encourage you to try and do the same despite how appealing living in LaLa Land may be!

 

You've ruined your whole argument by supporting thuggery. First you complain about Blackie... then you support him.. which is it ? I know supporting thuggery is easy for you after watching the likes of McCulloch apply his own brand of "Thuganomics" over the years. Unsporting behaviour is rife and Weir has been a master at it for years. Naismith is currently "Moaner in Waiting" as well as a candidate for the UK Diving team for the Olympics.

 

 

In terms of the whole sectarian thing - there's most definitely a minority in our support and they need to be eradicated. Not a points scoring thing at all I just deal in facts and am happy to rip into the large scale problem that Rangers have.

[shaun.lawson]

Didn't realise I had my stats so askew and have to bow to you there. In escence, I stand by what I said above though, bonkers as it may seem.

 

Often said that Craig Brown got us to two tournaments and should be applauded. He did it with Andy Roxburgh's team and when it came time to freshen up, he hadn't blooded anyone to the extent that we then had zero chance to qualify for his next two and that is why he failed and how he left the squad in a sorry state for the next emcumbant.

 

Berti was mental and some of the players he capped were embarassing (what the hell was Tommy Burns doing in his advisory role here btw?) but he got a spirit back into the fans (I know I was there and he's largely liked by the TA) and got some young exciting players playing for us for the first time in many years.

 

Walter Smith came in and canned a lot of these players. OK he was to steady the ship, but not by taking us backwards. Craig Gordon has been Scotland's best player for a number of years but wouldn't have played under Smith had Rab Douglas not been injured. That is one example, sure, but it says a lot for me. I didn't enjoy watching us under Smith (France game apart!).

 

Also, Holland pumped us, but lets not forget we went to Holland winning from the first leg having scored a great goal involving 2 of Berti's boys, Faddy and Fletch. I doubt either would have been playing under Smith. The fact Holland gave us oor erse to play with overshadows the achievement of getting there imo and that's a shame.

 

No problem with Eck either Shaun. Served us well, with passion and didn't mind getting younger players involved when appropriate. Let us down tactically a couple of times (Georgia away still hurts!!), but naivity is OK in my book sometimes.

 

I guess my problem with Wattie is that he's "old school" Scottish football personified in almost every respect. You'll know what I mean by that. We need progressive coaches and managers in this country, especially coaching the top clubs who have sway and certainly the national team.

 

I hate Levein's tactics and not too fond of him as a guy, but he has good fresh ideas on coaching at youth level etc and isn't afraid to shout for change at the top. No self-preservation in that respect (although lots in others!) Smith doesn't seem to give one about that kind of thing as far as I can see status quo is fine as long as Rangers are 1st and Celtic are 2nd.

 

Oh sure. Smith's innate conservatism is something people who love Scottish football have been arguing against for decades now - ever since the 5-0 defeat in Lisbon in 1993 ushered in a new, depressing era of low technique, low skill levels and all out defence. But Smith was every bit as hamstrung by all the problems in the game we all know about as anyone else; yet despite this, he, like Brown and McLeish, got results.

 

Exciting to watch? Definitely not - but no manager can make a silk purse from a sow's ear, and the very limited technical ability of Scottish players means, to get results, any manager has to deploy a defensive, no risk 4-5-1. We see it in European club competition time and time again - and that's not the manager's fault. It's the fault of the SFA, of coaches, of playing fields being sold off, of kids guzzling burgers and sitting in front of their playstations instead of playing football.

 

Football is a results business - and by that reckoning, Walter Smith's managerial career has been an enormous success. Vogts, on the other hand, did well with Germany, terribly with Scotland, terribly with Nigeria... and is now manager of the mighty Azerbaijan. Which really ought to tell you something, mate.

[Johnpp]

Our problem is just as small as a percentage of the overall support as yours is. We just have a much larger fanbase, thus the problem is accentuated. I'm happy to accept that does mean we have a larger problem, but the only people who can point fingers and take the moral high ground on that sort of thing is someone who supports a club with no sectarian element. That, sir, is not you.

 

On the whole, I disapprove of Black's thuggish approach to the game, and I'm sure you'll be happy to know I disapprove of McCulloch when he launches himself into challenges, though he's far less sneaky about his will to go through a player than Black is. Tonight, I'm willing to make an exception because there's the potential for a particularly violent little ned to get his comeuppance. I don't support the death penalty, but I would like to see paedophiles eradicated. Same principle at work.

 

Shaun, El Hadji Diouf is an utter scumbag. A man with such a wayward moral compass that he professed support for Colonel Gadaffi. For the timebeing though he pulls on a Rangers jersey and that means I support him on the pitch 100%. The rest of your points about Rangers seem to be motivated by nothing more than pure bitterness, so I'll leave them be since as you said yourself, personal dislike is not a good reason to denigrate something in a debate.

 

Back to you, Mysterion, care to point out any of these 'ridiculous statements'?

[Diego10]

I hope that little mention of Bain isn't a sectarianism jibe. It'd be a shame to see a Hearts fan trying to point-score over sectarianism.

 

 

The Jelavic challenge was a shocker, but there's been plenty of evidence since then that Brown is nothing more than a hatchet man. His assault on Diouf in February was prime evidence.

 

Anyway, put the hostility to bed. I'll be supporting your lot tonight and for one night only, will be supporting Black's thuggery in the hopes that he can end Scott Brown's career with one well placed scything challenge.

The jelavic tackle wasn't a shocker. It was a cynical challenge and might have saw red, but Jelavic was hurt by the way he landed. His name's Black. Assault on Diouf my eye, it was a booking alright, but so what. Lee McCulloch and Alan McGregor have both been guilty of far worse tackles at Tynecastle. The rest of your mob are hardly shrinking violets either.

[shaun.lawson]

 

 

Shaun, El Hadji Diouf is an utter scumbag. A man with such a wayward moral compass that he professed support for Colonel Gadaffi. For the timebeing though he pulls on a Rangers jersey and that means I support him on the pitch 100%. The rest of your points about Rangers seem to be motivated by nothing more than pure bitterness, so I'll leave them be since as you said yourself, personal dislike is not a good reason to denigrate something in a debate.

 

Back to you, Mysterion, care to point out any of these 'ridiculous statements'?

 

Given I'm one of only three or four posters to herald Smith's achievements on this thread, I'm afraid not. Instead, your failure to seriously address the sectarianism of your fans, your club's apparent encouragement of it, and Diouf aside, your barely touching upon your players' constant cheating, diving and fouling, speaks volumes I'm afraid.

 

Out of interest, what's your view on your club's hilarious new fangled depiction of itself as victims? Victims - despite being the ultimate establishment club anywhere?

[Diego10]

Our problem is just as small as a percentage of the overall support as yours is. We just have a much larger fanbase, thus the problem is accentuated. I'm happy to accept that does mean we have a larger problem, but the only people who can point fingers and take the moral high ground on that sort of thing is someone who supports a club with no sectarian element. That, sir, is not you.

 

absolute balls, as I'm sure you know fine well.

[Johnpp]

Given I'm one of only three posters to herald Smith's achievements on this thread, I'm afraid not. Instead, your failure to seriously address the sectarianism of your fans, your club's apparent encouragement of it, and Diouf aside, your barely touching upon your players' constant cheating, diving and fouling, speaks volumes I'm afraid.

 

Out of interest, what's your view on your club's hilarious new fangled depiction of itself as victims? Victims - despite being the ultimate establishment club anywhere?

 

Fine, everything else in the post I was fairly clearly responding directly to was motivated by bitterness.

 

As for your expectation that I would, apropos of nothing, denigrate my own club's fans for sectarianism, and players for cheating and fouling, I'm sure you realise how ridiculous that is. Hearts fans will see every other club in a worse light than they see their own, just as Rangers fans will, and just as every other club in Scotland's fans will.

 

The sectarian element is a poison in our support, and one which has to be dealt with. The club has made massive strides over the years to deal with it, making your claim that the club encourage it outlandish and a little daft.

 

Our depiction of ourselves as victims? I'm quite sure you're mixing us up with the collection of ambulance chasers over at Torbett Towers. Bain made a single reference to what he believed to be a concerted campaign against us from the media, and from that point of view, I can see his point. When talking about the bombs sent to Neil Lennon the BBC put their roving reporter outside Ibrox, the assumption was made immediately that these were being sent by Rangers fans, and Neil Lennon courted the press interest by insisting that he was being targetted as a result of his religion, hometown, and current job. There was an article in the London Times calling Rangers an 'institutionally sectarian club', and an 'imbecilic club' because we allowed a supporters group to place Union Flags on the seats.

 

There can be little doubt that we're a current favourite target from the media, but that's down to no mark journalists trying to make a name for themselves by poking at whichever target is currently softest, and I'm sure it'll stop as soon as another soft target arises or we toughen up a bit at boardroom level.

 

On the pitch, we get good decisions and bad decisions, just like any other club. We're no more victims than we are an 'establishment club'. To suggest we are either is simple stupidity.

 

Diego, you have a tiny support compared to ours. As a percentage of the overall support, true bigots will be on a similar level, and the 90 minute bigots who go to football only to spout bile in an arena where they think it's tolerated will be on a similar level.

[Johnpp]

The jelavic tackle wasn't a shocker. It was a cynical challenge and might have saw red, but Jelavic was hurt by the way he landed. His name's Black. Assault on Diouf my eye, it was a booking alright, but so what. Lee McCulloch and Alan McGregor have both been guilty of far worse tackles at Tynecastle. The rest of your mob are hardly shrinking violets either.

 

It absolutely was a shocker. I know his name's Black, I was getting ahead of myself thinking about a potential career ender on Scott Brown tonight.

 

His name's Allan.

[Spitonastranger]

Bollpocks still had a bigger budget and player wage bill, paid ?4mil for a striker, he abandoned Scotland as soon as the gers opened their manking legs