Buffalo Bill Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Just to put this season in context (for those of you who like a stat): Points wise, this season is now 'up there' with those post-'83 classics, such as 1985/86, 1997/98 and 2005/06. Whether or not it comes to anything more than a Europa League place who knows, but right now, this season compares. Yet interestingly, it is season 1991/92 (Joe Jordan, Crabbe, Millar, Baird etc) that is way out front, if we convert the pre-1994 'two points for a win' victories into 'three'. We finshed second that season but it ended up a bit of a damp squib; whereas 1985/86 went all the way to the last few minutes, but lags way behind the other seasons here, after 25 games. In other words, I'm not sure what it tells us other than we are going well, and of course, much depends on how the others are doing too. However, we are currently better off than in 03/04 and 85/85 and equal to 2005/06, and only a point worse off than 87/88 and 97/98. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it. Selected stats below: 1991/92 P 25 pts(eqv) 59 --- 1987/88 P 25 pts(eqv) 52 --- 1997/98 P 25 pts 52 --- 2010/11 P 25 pts 51 --- 2005/06 P 25 pts 51 --- 1985/86 P 25 pts(eqv) 46 --- 2003/04 P 25 pts 46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 BB, i text my mate that the Huns win today, for example, makes it all that much harder for Hearts to win the league. Simply because not enough teams will put up a fight or take enough points off the OF. Our record at the moment would be title potential stuff in other leagues..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 BB, i text my mate that the Huns win today, for example, makes it all that much harder for Hearts to win the league. Simply because not enough teams will put up a fight or take enough points off the OF. Our record at the moment would be title potential stuff in other leagues..... Well in 1991/92 we were up against only one half of the Old Firm in the 'title race', but ended up only just finishing above the other. The same thing happened in 2005/06. If both halves of the Old Firm are (fairly) strong, or at least pretty consistent, then it makes the task pretty impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Problem Officer? Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 The annoying thing is that whenever Hearts are going strong in the league, like this season and in 05/06, the Old Firm are much stronger (maybe with the exception of Rangers in 05/06) than when other teams are "chasing" them, like Hibs and Dundee United last season. Both were chasing a very pish Celtic team, and a pretty average Rangers team. If Celtic had the same amount of points now as they did after 25 games last season, we would be 3 ahead of them in 2nd and only 7 behind rangers with the same number of games played. Now though, if Celtic win tomorrow they will have the same amount of points as they had 05/06 after 25 games, with an even better goal difference, and they finished top with 91 points that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 We've lost 4 out of 6 games against the OF with a goal difference of -6 - it was in our own hands to be top of the league, so we can't blame others for not taking points off the OF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Problem Officer? Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 And... If Rangers win their 2 games in hand they will have 62 points, 4 better than this stage last season, but probably with slightly less goal difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 The annoying thing is that whenever Hearts are going strong in the league, like this season and in 05/06, the Old Firm are much stronger (maybe with the exception of Rangers in 05/06) than when other teams are "chasing" them, like Hibs and Dundee United last season. Both were chasing a very pish Celtic team, and a pretty average Rangers team. If Celtic had the same amount of points now as they did after 25 games last season, we would be 3 ahead of them in 2nd and only 7 behind rangers with the same number of games played. Now though, if Celtic win tomorrow they will have the same amount of points as they had 05/06 after 25 games, with an even better goal difference, and they finished top with 91 points that season. 05/6 was certainly the exception. Rangers' finishing total of 73 was amazingly low. You're focusing on last season's Celtic - but they were freakishly awful, and still ended up on 81! Most of the time, both halves of the OF can be expected to score 85 plus; one of them often gets over 90; and twice over the last decade, both got over 90, with the ultimate joint runaway being when both got 97 points in 02/3. So what's happening this season with them is actually fairly normal: finishing totals of Celtic 92, Rangers 87 or so look about right to me at this point. And it's because that's fairly normal for them that I always find the prospect of Hearts winning the title to be such a tall order: close to an impossible one. Because as BB's shown, we almost never score 2 points a game or more over a whole season. The only time we managed that since promotion was 1991/2 - yet two points a game gives us 76, leaving us well adrift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut The Crap Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 We've lost 4 out of 6 games against the OF with a goal difference of -6 - it was in our own hands to be top of the league, so we can't blame others for not taking points off the OF. The simplest of all the stats. As Fergie said, to win trophies in Scotland, you need to be able to beat the Old Firm in Glasgow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 We've lost 4 out of 6 games against the OF with a goal difference of -6 - it was in our own hands to be top of the league, so we can't blame others for not taking points off the OF. not blaming, just saying it doesn`t help with the easy capitulations. At least we`ve beaten them once each at home. Off the top of my head i think, Man Utd apart, the other top sides have randomly lost 5 or 6 games in the EPl. But for a while they all kept close-ish to Man U because teams were nicking draws off them. Its also been a bit of a phenomenon Utd`s run too, they were always partial to a few defeats even in title winning seasons, they just won alot otherwise and kept draws to a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 It grieves me that Hearts will never win the league & that we are all just happy that we are doing better than the shyter seasons. I'm feeling depressed tonight. I mean, will we ever get the trophy that we deserve? We put in hundreds of pounds, hours of dedicated support, tons of emotional energy. Then we pass it on to our kids. We curse them with the whole thing. I mean, ffs, will we ever get any kind of decent reward other than a piss ant run in europe? Why can't we ever see the old firm at their most vulnerable & capitalise on it? We are about the only club that can manage it. Yet, as the years roll on we just turn over & let these ****s dominate what is essentialy a poor, poor league. All I'm asking for is a league title. Just that. And I want it before the OF **** off to another league because that will just invalidate the prize. Is it really that much to ask for? We have thrown away all the decent chances we have had in over 40 years. THROWN IT AWAY! And then when we do look like doing things & capitalising on the shyteness of the OF, some idiot steps in to chuck it all down the pisser. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted to see the team performing well in recent months. But the more you think about it, the more you realise that we could go through an entire lifetime without seeing our club fly that league flag. It has began to bother me in recent weeks. I think going to Glasgow & getting turned over twice just confirmed my worst fears. Even at our best, we are still not good enough to shift those ****ers from winning almost everything. Cups are one thing and it is great to bring back any silverware to Gorgie. But I fear that is all that we will ever get. Winning the league is up to the OF. And it's beginning to bore the tits off me. Sorry for the rant. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Changingman Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 It grieves me that Hearts will never win the league & that we are all just happy that we are doing better than the shyter seasons. I'm feeling depressed tonight. I mean, will we ever get the trophy that we deserve? We put in hundreds of pounds, hours of dedicated support, tons of emotional energy. Then we pass it on to our kids. We curse them with the whole thing. I mean, ffs, will we ever get any kind of decent reward other than a piss ant run in europe? Why can't we ever see the old firm at their most vulnerable & capitalise on it? We are about the only club that can manage it. Yet, as the years roll on we just turn over & let these ****s dominate what is essentialy a poor, poor league. All I'm asking for is a league title. Just that. And I want it before the OF **** off to another league because that will just invalidate the prize. Is it really that much to ask for? We have thrown away all the decent chances we have had in over 40 years. THROWN IT AWAY! And then when we do look like doing things & capitalising on the shyteness of the OF, some idiot steps in to chuck it all down the pisser. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted to see the team performing well in recent months. But the more you think about it, the more you realise that we could go through an entire lifetime without seeing our club fly that league flag. It has began to bother me in recent weeks. I think going to Glasgow & getting turned over twice just confirmed my worst fears. Even at our best, we are still not good enough to shift those ****ers from winning almost everything. Cups are one thing and it is great to bring back any silverware to Gorgie. But I fear that is all that we will ever get. Winning the league is up to the OF. And it's beginning to bore the tits off me. Sorry for the rant. Well said, the only thing I could add to this is, the OF have a winning mentality that we (and the other teams in our league) dont have, it doesn't matter how good our team is we never go to Glasgow completely confident of coming way with three points, whereas at Tynie we know we can beat them and regularly do. Also I noticed a few weeks ago when winning the league was a genuine possibility, there was a new pressure on our team to win every game & and opposing teams were willing to sit in and defend until they could try and get a goal on the break, thats a scenario that the OF have dealt with for the last 20(?) years and the obviously handle this a lot better than both our team & fans do. Hope this makes sense have had a few beers, but like Craigieboy I'm a bit pissed off that 3rd place could be the best that we may achieve. & Before anyone says we would have taken this before the season began, of course we would, but we are big enough & good enough to do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south morocco Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 It grieves me that Hearts will never win the league & that we are all just happy that we are doing better than the shyter seasons. I'm feeling depressed tonight. I mean, will we ever get the trophy that we deserve? We put in hundreds of pounds, hours of dedicated support, tons of emotional energy. Then we pass it on to our kids. We curse them with the whole thing. I mean, ffs, will we ever get any kind of decent reward other than a piss ant run in europe? Why can't we ever see the old firm at their most vulnerable & capitalise on it? We are about the only club that can manage it. Yet, as the years roll on we just turn over & let these ****s dominate what is essentialy a poor, poor league. All I'm asking for is a league title. Just that. And I want it before the OF **** off to another league because that will just invalidate the prize. Is it really that much to ask for? We have thrown away all the decent chances we have had in over 40 years. THROWN IT AWAY! And then when we do look like doing things & capitalising on the shyteness of the OF, some idiot steps in to chuck it all down the pisser. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted to see the team performing well in recent months. But the more you think about it, the more you realise that we could go through an entire lifetime without seeing our club fly that league flag. It has began to bother me in recent weeks. I think going to Glasgow & getting turned over twice just confirmed my worst fears. Even at our best, we are still not good enough to shift those ****ers from winning almost everything. Cups are one thing and it is great to bring back any silverware to Gorgie. But I fear that is all that we will ever get. Winning the league is up to the OF. And it's beginning to bore the tits off me. Sorry for the rant. . I feel your pain craigieboy but take solace in the cup wins,unless there is MAJOR investment in our club,we can ,at best maybe split the OF occasionally . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 This thread wasn't intended to depress Craigyboy or anyone else. I really wanted to show that we can at least class this term up with some of the better seasons in recent times. Moreover, it's only February. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigis semiauskas Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 The annoying thing is that whenever Hearts are going strong in the league, like this season and in 05/06, the Old Firm are much stronger (maybe with the exception of Rangers in 05/06) than when other teams are "chasing" them, like Hibs and Dundee United last season. Both were chasing a very pish Celtic team, and a pretty average Rangers team. If Celtic had the same amount of points now as they did after 25 games last season, we would be 3 ahead of them in 2nd and only 7 behind rangers with the same number of games played. Now though, if Celtic win tomorrow they will have the same amount of points as they had 05/06 after 25 games, with an even better goal difference, and they finished top with 91 points that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south morocco Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 This thread wasn't intended to depress Craigyboy or anyone else. I really wanted to show that we can at least class this term up with some of the better seasons in recent times. Moreover, it's only February. And we are 7 to 10/12 give or take behind them,usually they are off over the horizon by now, good times,and i think we can get closer next term even if wallace and driver go ,we have a good spine /core now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted February 12, 2011 Author Share Posted February 12, 2011 The good news, and I think this is what Shaun.Lawson is saying, is that if we win all of our games between now and the end of the season... ...we might just sneak third place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigis semiauskas Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 The annoying thing is that whenever Hearts are going strong in the league, like this season and in 05/06, the Old Firm are much stronger (maybe with the exception of Rangers in 05/06) than when other teams are "chasing" them, like Hibs and Dundee United last season. Both were chasing a very pish Celtic team, and a pretty average Rangers team. If Celtic had the same amount of points now as they did after 25 games last season, we would be 3 ahead of them in 2nd and only 7 behind rangers with the same number of games played. Now though, if Celtic win tomorrow they will have the same amount of points as they had 05/06 after 25 games, with an even better goal difference, and they finished top with 91 points that season. Bollocks! We are not facing a strong OF,not that long ago people were saying this was the worst Old Firm teams in years and i agree, simply we are still not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Changingman Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 And we are 7 to 10/12 give or take behind them,usually they are off over the horizon by now, good times,and i think we can get closer next term even if wallace and driver go ,we have a good spine /core now I'm sure after the 2005/06 season we were in the bottom 3 for most of the season, thats what we have to aim for is to be challenging every season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Coincidently i've been adding headlines to our archive of reports from 1991-92, unfortunately there is nothing after the 4-0 thrashing Aberdeen gave us. the Headlines were New man Baird set to bring the best out of Crabbe in attack Two ordered off as Hearts edge home Hearts hand out an early warning Hearts sew it up early Outbreak of yellow fever Baird relieves pressure on man Hearts Tynecastle fare leaves the faithful with hunger pangs Rangers after capital cheer McCoist strikes back with winner Hearts march to the top in small steps Mackay joins the '400 club' Saints already in dire straits Jordan's celebration party falls a little flat: Hearts squander chances to make it a day to remember Falkirk were their own executioners The forgotten man returns Cascarino mirrors Celtic's problem Striker trying too hard to succeed Hearts back on top thanks to Crabbe Fifers show signs of revival Quality is the missing link: New faces are now needed for Hearts to turn up trumps Bargain buy proves winner Hearts unable to break the Saints' barrier Old Firm can live up to tag: Both teams have the ability and desire to serve up a classic Capital fare from Hibs and Hearts. Reserve power a winner Hearts have champion qualities. Smith off as Dons crash Leaders ready to battle: Hearts' Mackay makes his point as he is ordered off Points should cheer Hearts Self-belief and a little luck can net Hearts title Falkirk prove more than able test for Hearts Hearts harry Kozma out of his stride True grit the key to Hearts' big push for title honours Picking up points when not playing well is mark of potential champions Hearts' foreign forays continue to pay dividends Conditions set for a capital Hearts have to settle for point but stay top Galloway opens the door for Hearts Aberdeen find the right blend: Jess and Booth fulfil promise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south morocco Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I'm sure after the 2005/06 season we were in the bottom 3 for most of the season, thats what we have to aim for is to be challenging every season Eh ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Changingman Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Eh ?? I'm sure after the 2005/06 season we were in the bottom 3 for most of the season, we should be challenging at the top every season. Tried to fix that hope it now makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 06/07 wasn't great on and off the park but we finished fourth and only just missed out on Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south morocco Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I'm sure after the 2005/06 season we were in the bottom 3 for most of the season, we should be challenging at the top every season. Tried to fix that hope it now makes sense Doh! my fault got it now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Changingman Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 06/07 wasn't great on and off the park but we finished fourth and only just missed out on Europe. Your right it was the nest season I was thinking off, drink is clouding my already patchy memory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Problem Officer? Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Bollocks! We are not facing a strong OF,not that long ago people were saying this was the worst Old Firm teams in years and i agree, simply we are still not good enough. Well considering they both won their opening 8 games, and despite the dip they might of had before the new year, since then Rangers have been "average" perhaps, although they put 6 past Motherwell earlier, and since Celtic gubbed us they've hit form and are scoring for fun just now, so I don't know whats "bollocks" about that really. And I was mainly saying that compared to when other teams have been in 3rd/4th, like Hibs and Utd last season, the Old Firm then actually were pretty shit, compared to this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 The only difference between us and the OF this season is the start they had to the season in comparison with ours. I don't think either of them are better than us at this stage, nor do I think the league is done and dusted yet this season. There is still a hell of a long way to go and a hell of a lot that can happen. all we have to do is concentrate on winning our fixtures, and if we do that, and there are thirteen fixtures left, we would post a points tally of 90, and in my mind that could be enough to secure the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I know we all crave winning the League Flag one day but if you look at our resources compared to both the Uglies every season that we've finished 2nd or 3rd we have probably done as well or better than we can expect to most seasons so it's not something to be dismissed just because we didn't in the league given their huge advantage in size 3rd is probably the best we can achieve unless we are exceptional..........to win the title you have to beat BOTH Old Firm teams over a season which is an incredibly tall order especially in league formats that involve playing them 4 times per season where each game against them essentially becomes a 6 pointer and it is winning or losing the majority of points in those games that leads to a bigger or smaller gap between the Old Firm and the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Herbertson Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 It grieves me that Hearts will never win the league & that we are all just happy that we are doing better than the shyter seasons. I'm feeling depressed tonight. I mean, will we ever get the trophy that we deserve? We put in hundreds of pounds, hours of dedicated support, tons of emotional energy. Then we pass it on to our kids. We curse them with the whole thing. I mean, ffs, will we ever get any kind of decent reward other than a piss ant run in europe? Why can't we ever see the old firm at their most vulnerable & capitalise on it? We are about the only club that can manage it. Yet, as the years roll on we just turn over & let these ****s dominate what is essentialy a poor, poor league. All I'm asking for is a league title. Just that. And I want it before the OF **** off to another league because that will just invalidate the prize. Is it really that much to ask for? We have thrown away all the decent chances we have had in over 40 years. THROWN IT AWAY! And then when we do look like doing things & capitalising on the shyteness of the OF, some idiot steps in to chuck it all down the pisser. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted to see the team performing well in recent months. But the more you think about it, the more you realise that we could go through an entire lifetime without seeing our club fly that league flag. It has began to bother me in recent weeks. I think going to Glasgow & getting turned over twice just confirmed my worst fears. Even at our best, we are still not good enough to shift those ****ers from winning almost everything. Cups are one thing and it is great to bring back any silverware to Gorgie. But I fear that is all that we will ever get. Winning the league is up to the OF. And it's beginning to bore the tits off me. Sorry for the rant. . . . No problem. I could have written the identical post. I'm a bit more optimistic beacuse we've been looking good but just one league title before it's time to draw the curtain. It's not much to ask really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac_fae_Gillie Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 All we neeed is for Vlad to take an interest... for a little investment the team could start next year stronger than they are now. This season the o/f had an amazing start 10/11 wins in 1st 11 games with only the derby been celtics downful,we on the other hand had lost 5points to late goals in the first section,if we had those 5 points(and rangers 2 less) we would have more spirit 2weeks ago when we went to glasgow and they would have had more pressure. We need to keep the current team,with exception of some dross and 1 wide player(driver or suso,like to keep both but not if we get a decent forward or RB). Most important is Herats become a happy ship,players want to stay and it starts to give us a team. as to this season,the medias bigging us up at January start was jusat rubbish,this is an o/f season they are 20points above 4th with games in hand already... so much for them been weak this season.. Shame but we got to look forward to hopefully a good europe run and a stronger team next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 We were a bit unfortunate over the 3 games just past against the Uglies ,Kyle out Temps and Rudi off the boil and to early for Driver to make a real impact . We can't afford those losses when on trips to ugly city . If we can push up to near 80pts for the seasons end would be amazing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheatfield to sheffield Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Just to put this season in context (for those of you who like a stat): Anyway, just thought I'd mention it. Selected stats below: 1991/92 P 25 pts(eqv) 59 --- 1987/88 P 25 pts(eqv) 52 --- 1997/98 P 25 pts 52 --- 2010/11 P 25 pts 51 --- 2005/06 P 25 pts 51 --- 1985/86 P 25 pts(eqv) 46 --- 2003/04 P 25 pts 46 Thanks Bill - I love a good stat buzz early in the morning. For me, the amazing thing is how few points we had in 85/86 but we were top of the league ... can you let us know what position we were in the league after 25 games in all the seasons you have given us the points totals for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 After several seasons which tried the patience under Ivanauskas, Cervenkov, Malofeev and particularly Laszlo I am loving this season. We have been playing better football, winning games, have a manager and team who care about the club and the fans, that management team are obviously expert at motivating players, and whom understand the weaknesses in the squad and have started to do something about it, and on top the owner has supported them substantially. It has been a great season so far. Big shame about the rubbish cup record this year - but if JJ and team can continue to build the squad we will be in there for cups in the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Thanks Bill - I love a good stat buzz early in the morning. For me, the amazing thing is how few points we had in 85/86 but we were top of the league ... can you let us know what position we were in the league after 25 games in all the seasons you have given us the points totals for? 91/91 1st (evq of three points clear) 87/88 2nd (but top three on equal points) 97/98 3rd (but only a point off top) 10/11 3rd (likely 10 pts off the lead) 05/06 2nd (10 pts off the lead) 03/04 3rd (a whopping 27 points off top) 85/86 1st (a point in front of Celtic when taking into account that they would win their two games in hand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I've woke up all happy. Third it is. But, just one league title would be nice for this generation of Hearts fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 To win the league we need to believe/expect we can beat the old firm, especially on their own turf. In JJ i do not think we have a manager who can install these beliefs into the players. We have to have the players hurting badly if we get beat by the OF, not just thinking, ach well it was Rangers/Celtic but we have done well against the other teams. I want to hear JJ talking about challenging for the top (over the last few weeks he has said it is only the media saying this) instead of going on about securing 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 To win the league we need to believe/expect we can beat the old firm, especially on their own turf. In JJ i do not think we have a manager who can install these beliefs into the players. We have to have the players hurting badly if we get beat by the OF, not just thinking, ach well it was Rangers/Celtic but we have done well against the other teams. I want to hear JJ talking about challenging for the top (over the last few weeks he has said it is only the media saying this) instead of going on about securing 3rd. I agree with you fighting talk there, Gambo. This would be my position too. However, JJ is only covering his back by targetting third this season. To have any chance this season, we need to claw back five points on Celtic before the split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 To win the league we need to believe/expect we can beat the old firm, especially on their own turf. In JJ i do not think we have a manager who can install these beliefs into the players. We have to have the players hurting badly if we get beat by the OF, not just thinking, ach well it was Rangers/Celtic but we have done well against the other teams. I want to hear JJ talking about challenging for the top (over the last few weeks he has said it is only the media saying this) instead of going on about securing 3rd. To be fair I doubt even JJ expected us to be in the position we are now at the start of the season. I imagine he was talking down our position in case we stumbled badly and the pack caught up with us. If he can keep this group of players together for next season and possibly enhance the squad quality with some judicious ins nd outs then we should be looking to overtly challenge the uglies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 i think the key to winning a league is a combination of hearts going to ibrox and parkhead and coming away with points on a regular basis, allied to another couple of teams becoming competitive enough to deprive the old firm of a meaningful number of points. look at this season for instance. if we had gone through to glasgow recently and drawn twice, we would already be better off against each side to the tune of 4 points. if there was another team or two capable of beating them a couple of times per season, or indeed a whole league of teams who could take deprive them of wins on a regular basis, the possibilities of winning the league increase hugely. where the problem always tends to lie is that when there are a decent number of competitive teams in the league outwith the old firm, they tend to take points off each other, therefore it becomes counter-productive. in order for someone else to win a league we would need a team to become just as strong as the old firm AND have other teams become stronger and more capable of taking points off the old firm. perhaps it's just an unquantifiable set of circumstances coming together to produce a chance of winning the league. 85/86 contained some of the ingredients required for it to happen. there was our 27 league match unbeaten run, rangers being less competitive than ourselves, us beating rangers 3 times in the league, us being unbeaten against celtic in the league, fairly good dundee united and aberdeen sides capable of taking points off the old firm, us still being strong enough to take most of the points from our games versus dundee united and aberdeen... and it still didn't win us the league. it seems possible though, given an unusual set of circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Stinkfinger Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I think the Bigots are better than us this season, thats why we are 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 It grieves me that Hearts will never win the league & that we are all just happy that we are doing better than the shyter seasons. I'm feeling depressed tonight. I mean, will we ever get the trophy that we deserve? We put in hundreds of pounds, hours of dedicated support, tons of emotional energy. Then we pass it on to our kids. We curse them with the whole thing. I mean, ffs, will we ever get any kind of decent reward other than a piss ant run in europe? Why can't we ever see the old firm at their most vulnerable & capitalise on it? We are about the only club that can manage it. Yet, as the years roll on we just turn over & let these ****s dominate what is essentialy a poor, poor league. All I'm asking for is a league title. Just that. And I want it before the OF **** off to another league because that will just invalidate the prize. Is it really that much to ask for? We have thrown away all the decent chances we have had in over 40 years. THROWN IT AWAY! And then when we do look like doing things & capitalising on the shyteness of the OF, some idiot steps in to chuck it all down the pisser. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted to see the team performing well in recent months. But the more you think about it, the more you realise that we could go through an entire lifetime without seeing our club fly that league flag. It has began to bother me in recent weeks. I think going to Glasgow & getting turned over twice just confirmed my worst fears. Even at our best, we are still not good enough to shift those ****ers from winning almost everything. Cups are one thing and it is great to bring back any silverware to Gorgie. But I fear that is all that we will ever get. Winning the league is up to the OF. And it's beginning to bore the tits off me. Sorry for the rant. . . . good post, im glad we have passionate fans like yourself who want better and believe we can get it. Wish we had more with that attitude. Not sooking up btw, it just does my head in the galoots in our support who concede the title too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 The annoying thing for me is that we could have gotten away with our 4 losses to the Old Firm so far this season had we not dropped a mighty 12 points at home against ICT, St Johnstone, Dundee Utd, Kilmarnock, and Motherwell, those 12 points would have seen us top the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 i think the key to winning a league is a combination of hearts going to ibrox and parkhead and coming away with points on a regular basis, allied to another couple of teams becoming competitive enough to deprive the old firm of a meaningful number of points. look at this season for instance. if we had gone through to glasgow recently and drawn twice, we would already be better off against each side to the tune of 4 points. if there was another team or two capable of beating them a couple of times per season, or indeed a whole league of teams who could take deprive them of wins on a regular basis, the possibilities of winning the league increase hugely. where the problem always tends to lie is that when there are a decent number of competitive teams in the league outwith the old firm, they tend to take points off each other, therefore it becomes counter-productive. in order for someone else to win a league we would need a team to become just as strong as the old firm AND have other teams become stronger and more capable of taking points off the old firm. perhaps it's just an unquantifiable set of circumstances coming together to produce a chance of winning the league. 85/86 contained some of the ingredients required for it to happen. there was our 27 league match unbeaten run, rangers being less competitive than ourselves, us beating rangers 3 times in the league, us being unbeaten against celtic in the league, fairly good dundee united and aberdeen sides capable of taking points off the old firm, us still being strong enough to take most of the points from our games versus dundee united and aberdeen... and it still didn't win us the league. it seems possible though, given an unusual set of circumstances. Agree with that,mate. The Dundee Utd game today will be a decent guage on their progress.I'll watch it with interest.If they get thumped and,with Rangers hammering Motherwell,the hooped demons go further clear it will be difficult for any team to make inroads.Any team being us,obviously! Only two more old firm games for us to have any effect so very unlikely we'll get any higher than third but all we can do is keep winning and hope one or both of them come a cropper.Can't see it but it wasn't long ago that Celtic drew with Hamilton,so....! Either way it still can be classed as a good season;all i yearn for is a cup run.Next year perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Agree with that,mate. The Dundee Utd game today will be a decent guage on their progress.I'll watch it with interest.If they get thumped and,with Rangers hammering Motherwell,the hooped demons go further clear it will be difficult for any team to make inroads.Any team being us,obviously! Only two more old firm games for us to have any effect so very unlikely we'll get any higher than third but all we can do is keep winning and hope one or both of them come a cropper.Can't see it but it wasn't long ago that Celtic drew with Hamilton,so....! Either way it still can be classed as a good season;all i yearn for is a cup run.Next year perhaps. how many old firm derbys are let though - is it 1 or 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 how many old firm derbys are let though - is it 1 or 2? Good point,Dave. Two,i think.Opens up another opportunity to make inroads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Stinkfinger Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 i think the key to winning a league is a combination of hearts going to ibrox and parkhead and coming away with points on a regular basis, allied to another couple of teams becoming competitive enough to deprive the old firm of a meaningful number of points. look at this season for instance. if we had gone through to glasgow recently and drawn twice, we would already be better off against each side to the tune of 4 points. if there was another team or two capable of beating them a couple of times per season, or indeed a whole league of teams who could take deprive them of wins on a regular basis, the possibilities of winning the league increase hugely. where the problem always tends to lie is that when there are a decent number of competitive teams in the league outwith the old firm, they tend to take points off each other, therefore it becomes counter-productive. in order for someone else to win a league we would need a team to become just as strong as the old firm AND have other teams become stronger and more capable of taking points off the old firm. perhaps it's just an unquantifiable set of circumstances coming together to produce a chance of winning the league. 85/86 contained some of the ingredients required for it to happen. there was our 27 league match unbeaten run, rangers being less competitive than ourselves, us beating rangers 3 times in the league, us being unbeaten against celtic in the league, fairly good dundee united and aberdeen sides capable of taking points off the old firm, us still being strong enough to take most of the points from our games versus dundee united and aberdeen... and it still didn't win us the league. it seems possible though, given an unusual set of circumstances. The key to winning the league is being better than everybody else over the season. We are not the best team in the league. Simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Agree with that,mate. The Dundee Utd game today will be a decent guage on their progress.I'll watch it with interest.If they get thumped and,with Rangers hammering Motherwell,the hooped demons go further clear it will be difficult for any team to make inroads.Any team being us,obviously! Only two more old firm games for us to have any effect so very unlikely we'll get any higher than third but all we can do is keep winning and hope one or both of them come a cropper.Can't see it but it wasn't long ago that Celtic drew with Hamilton,so....! Either way it still can be classed as a good season;all i yearn for is a cup run.Next year perhaps. too true. hopefully soon we'll get back to the days when we were basically getting as far as the quarters and semis in every cup, with the odd final. it's unbelievable that we've not been to hampden since winning the cup. one league cup semi final at fir park to show for the cup comps since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 The key to winning the league is being better than everybody else over the season. We are not the best team in the league. Simple really. not as simple as you are making out lionflaps. celtic weren't the best team in 85/86 but won the league. we probably aren't going to be measurably the best team in the league but it's still possible to win one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 too true. hopefully soon we'll get back to the days when we were basically getting as far as the quarters and semis in every cup, with the odd final. it's unbelievable that we've not been to hampden since winning the cup. one league cup semi final at fir park to show for the cup comps since then. Exactly my point,mate.It seems ages since we had good cup ties,home and away and i hope we can reverse this bad trend next season.League is always first priority but a good cup run can enhance a feel good factor at a club.Maybe the missing link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adayinmay Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 The annoying thing for me is that we could have gotten away with our 4 losses to the Old Firm so far this season had we not dropped a mighty 12 points at home against ICT, St Johnstone, Dundee Utd, Kilmarnock, and Motherwell, those 12 points would have seen us top the league. Those were indeed disappointing games but if we had won them then we would have a 100% record outside the OF games which is an unlikely scenario. The main problem is that no other team is taking any points from either of the OF. In the years mentioned previously where we came close, either Rankgers or Celtic were dropping points elsewhere. This year they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Stinkfinger Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 not as simple as you are making out lionflaps. celtic weren't the best team in 85/86 but won the league. we probably aren't going to be measurably the best team in the league but it's still possible to win one. It is as simple as that. Its time dinosaurs like yourself stopped using 85/86 as any sort of guideline to our current team as well, it was nearly 30 years ago FFS. If we are the best team in the league then I reckon that's gives us a better than average chance of winning the thing. Try dealing in fact instead of fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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