Good Luck To Odense, Aek And Particularly Fc Utrecht Tonight

[4marsbars]

I really don't get people who don't care about the Scottish co-efficient. Without a moderate level of Euro success the SPL will quickly diminish to the same level as the League of Wales. It may level the playing field within Scotland, but are people so short-sighted that they would be happy to see a part-time Hearts team playing at a similar standard as Llanelli while being good enough to challenge for the league title (probably because they are only 5 other teams left in the league as the rest have all gone bust).

 

Hearts will not improve by dragging down the level of the oppostion, Hearts will only get dragged down too. It's like saying you want Hearts to get relegated so their is a higher chance of winning a league next season. Completely bonkers.

 

says it all

[Zibi]

I usually ignore all your Chelsea related p1sh, but I can't let this comment go.

 

Any "supporter" that doesn't want progression and improvement for ALL Scottish clubs is just a part of the overall problem in my opinion.

 

So Rangers and Celtic profit more than we do from Europe etc.....so what??

The rest of us DO see a downstream benefit fom their European progress whether you like it or not.

 

I suppose you also hope that Scottish football continues its backward spiral, and that Hearts never make it to the champions league?

 

You'd probably support Chelsea if we were drawn in the same group anyway.

It makes it harder for Hearts to compete with the OF. I couldn't give a feck about any other teams in Scotland being successful. The only thing I care about is that Hearts are challenging at the top of the SPL. The OF are our rivals in that race so therefore I want them to be weakened. By them receiving less European money they will be severely weakened and their ability to spend in the transfer market will be more similar to that of Hearts. By the same token I wanted United and Motherwell to get beat as they are also our rivals.

[EreWeG0..]

It makes it harder for Hearts to compete with the OF. I couldn't give a feck about any other teams in Scotland being successful. The only thing I care about is that Hearts are challenging at the top of the SPL. The OF are our rivals in that race so therefore I want them to be weakened. By them receiving less European money they will be severely weakened and their ability to spend in the transfer market will be more similar to that of Hearts. By the same token I wanted United and Motherwell to get beat as they are also our rivals.

 

Agree - apart from the fact that the longer they are in europe the more effect it could have on their league position as they would blame it on the euro ties...

 

Mwell & d utd aint gonna win anything, but the longer they stretch their squad the better for us in a way

[P-Dizzle]

<BR>I'd much rather that we pushed on to challenge the OF rather than them dropping down to our level tbh, otherwise Scottish football is going to die a slow and painful death.<BR>

 

So would I, but that's not going to happen, is it? Scottish football is already dying, let's not fool ourselves into thinking otherwise. The way the SPL is running right now isn't working, it's unfair and causing clubs like ourselves to be laden with debt just to compete. Even then, we're not able to push on beyond 3rd, as the OF have systems in place to prevent that.

 

In what world could we take on the Old Firm, and sustain a push for an entire season, without putting our club in serious jeopardy? It can't happen, it's not supposed to happen, the whole system is geared to favour the Old Firm. So something outwith their control must cause a shift. I see a low coefficent doing just that. What do you think would need to happen for such a change to occor?

[The Treasurer]

I really don't get people who don't care about the Scottish co-efficient. Without a moderate level of Euro success the SPL will quickly diminish to the same level as the League of Wales. It may level the playing field within Scotland, but are people so short-sighted that they would be happy to see a part-time Hearts team playing at a similar standard as Llanelli while being good enough to challenge for the league title (probably because they are only 5 other teams left in the league as the rest have all gone bust).

 

Hearts will not improve by dragging down the level of the oppostion, Hearts will only get dragged down too. It's like saying you want Hearts to get relegated so their is a higher chance of winning a league next season. Completely bonkers.

 

I can never understand this attitude of " if our clubs don't do well in Europe then we'll end up like the LofW."

SPL clubs have a far bigger fan base than any Welsh league club and I doubt DU or even the hobos crowds will go down this season purely because they've been knocked out of Europe

[NoseLikeMahe]

I can never understand this attitude of " if our clubs don't do well in Europe then we'll end up like the LofW."

SPL clubs have a far bigger fan base than any Welsh league club and I doubt DU or even the hobos crowds will go down this season purely because they've been knocked out of Europe

 

And a massively larger debt-to-turnover ratio.

 

Why do you think the TV money from ESPN is drastically less than that SKY paid the SPL in previous years? TV money, incidentally, that is shared equally by all 12 SPL member clubs.

[P-Dizzle]

And a massively larger debt-to-turnover ratio.

 

Why do you think the TV money from ESPN is drastically less than that SKY paid the SPL in previous years? TV money, incidentally, that is shared equally by all 12 SPL member clubs.

 

 

So you agree, the current system is wrong.

 

I take it you mean Setanta when you're saying TV money. Sky have never paid top dollar for the SPL rights, they've never had to. Setanta tried to compete with Sky, offering far more than was possibly sustainable. They stretched themselves too far, trying to take on someone who had the rights to all the best leagues in Europe.

 

The money from ESPN is drastically lower because competition law dictated that Sky could not hold all the rights to the SPL. ESPN were the only serious contender, so they got them for lower. Not sure what you're driving at with that statement.

 

TV money is shared between the clubs, but prize money and sponsorship isn't. The top two take most of the prize money, the disparity between 2nd and 3rd place is huge. The OF attract far more sponsorship money, they have a bigger fan base, but they obtain more because the sponsor knows he's getting his product aired in Europe.

 

The OF have more money, and the league is constructed to keep them ahead of the pack and make them more money. The SPL is designed to destroy competition. Removing the guarantee of Champions League football(or 50% chance now) means they will have to take their spending into deep consideration. Failing to make the groups means a loss of millions, to the OF. That means they can't continue to pay very high wages or splash out on big transfers. Improving competition and giving the rest of us, who don't base our business model on potentially receiving millions a season from Europe, a better chance.

 

 

 

What about that doesn't make sense?

[BervieJambo]

I can never understand this attitude of " if our clubs don't do well in Europe then we'll end up like the LofW."

SPL clubs have a far bigger fan base than any Welsh league club and I doubt DU or even the hobos crowds will go down this season purely because they've been knocked out of Europe

 

It won't make any difference this season, but it's a downward spiral. Poor euro co-efficient equals less places in Europe to fight for and in a few years of continual failure we're down to just 2 places in Europe, always taken by the OF because they have a "bigger fan base". Fans of Hearts, Hibs, DU etc will give up soon enough, because there is nothing to play for and nothing worth watching.

 

Yes, I'm fed up of OF domination like everyone else, but wishing them failure so their supply of money dries up and they get dragged down towards is the wrong way to go about it. Surely, the better the OF are => the better players they attract => the higher level of competition our young players are up against => the better they become => the higher their value => the more money we get. Also the higher the Euro coefficient => the (potentially) better draws we get when we do qualify => the longer the Euro run => the more money we get. Wishing failure on our SPL compatriots does us no favours at all in the long run.

[rossthejambo]

So would I, but that's not going to happen, is it? Scottish football is already dying, let's not fool ourselves into thinking otherwise. The way the SPL is running right now isn't working, it's unfair and causing clubs like ourselves to be laden with debt just to compete. Even then, we're not able to push on beyond 3rd, as the OF have systems in place to prevent that.

 

In what world could we take on the Old Firm, and sustain a push for an entire season, without putting our club in serious jeopardy? It can't happen, it's not supposed to happen, the whole system is geared to favour the Old Firm. So something outwith their control must cause a shift. I see a low coefficent doing just that. What do you think would need to happen for such a change to occor?

 

You're right with what you say.

 

What I suggested was supporting non-OF teams in Europe as that will keep the overall countries coefficient high-ish but hoping that the OF get horsed in every game, lowering their individual co-efficients and resulting in them not being seeded for qualifying matches, etc.

 

This will result in the rest of Scottish teams to get a bit more money and close the gap with the OF. I'm not naive to expect this to happen overnight but it could certainly happen.

 

There's also the expansion of the league which has been banded about a bit. I genuinely think that would result in the league being more challenging for the OF, if it was to be implemented.

[P-Dizzle]

Like I said Ross, I'm not looking for us to fail. I'm just trying to take a positive from it, and I think a poor coefficent and therefore reduced revenue for the OF, might remove some of the inherent corruption in our league.

 

I've said that non-OF teams don't budget for Europe when making transfers/offering wages etc. So any side outwith the OF doing well in Europe is good for that club, but that money will go towards the running costs of the club which are already too high for nearly all of us. They won't be able to take on the OF by bringing in a player or two off the back of a Europa League group stage. We're relatively uneffected by europe in terms of what we can actually spend.

[Therapist]

Surely, the better the OF are => the better players they attract => the higher level of competition our young players are up against => the better they become => the higher their value => the more money we get. Also the higher the Euro coefficient => the (potentially) better draws we get when we do qualify => the longer the Euro run => the more money we get.

 

 

What utter nonsense.

[rossthejambo]

Like I said Ross, I'm not looking for us to fail. I'm just trying to take a positive from it, and I think a poor coefficent and therefore reduced revenue for the OF, might remove some of the inherent corruption in our league.

 

I've said that non-OF teams don't budget for Europe when making transfers/offering wages etc. So any side outwith the OF doing well in Europe is good for that club, but that money will go towards the running costs of the club which are already too high for nearly all of us. They won't be able to take on the OF by bringing in a player or two off the back of a Europa League group stage. We're relatively uneffected by europe in terms of what we can actually spend.

 

You make a good case. I think we're both of the same opinion to be honest, hoping that the OF get humped at every opportunity in Europe. That's the way it should be IMO.

[BervieJambo]

 

What utter nonsense.

 

 

No wanting to get personal, but I would have thought that, of all the posters on here, a capitalist like yourself would subscribe to the notion that the rich among us would drive up the standards of everyone else.

[Therapist]

I would have thought that, of all the posters on here, a capitalist like yourself would subscribe to the notion that the rich among us would drive up the standards of everyone else.

 

 

It's never happened in the past, and it won't happen in the future. Capitalism is all about the rich getting richer.

[Only a Game]

 

Look at how poor Rangers and Celtic's sides are. How do you account for the gap between them and the rest remaining as big as it has, at a time their European results have largely fallen off a cliff too?

 

I think its largely because no matter how bad they seem to get, the've still got the domestic "aura" of greatness that clubs collectively and individual players, psychologically, havent got to grips with yet. Its the last barrier keeping them in the apparently cosy position they are still in IMO. As soon as that goes, and it might take a really decent challenge from someone to spark it off, then they'll suddenly become more mortal and nothing to be feared.

 

People say it frequently on here and I thoroughly believe it. Our team of 2005/06, talent wise, attitude wise and with no internal disruption or foot-shooting, would absolutely romp this league.

[DaveARoss]

Basically I find it hard to support any team that has pissed me off in the past. These teams playing in Europe from Scotland have managed that. Football's not all about rational thinking.