Good Luck To Odense, Aek And Particularly Fc Utrecht Tonight

[Sraman]

2 -0 Odense. Good goal.

[The Old Tolbooth]

would it though?

 

Rangers and Cetlic still earn a hell of a lot more than everyone else from gate Receipts. Even without europe monies they have a vastly superior spending power to the rest of the SPL.

Must admit I'm with LP on this one, I couldn't give a flying feck about the co efficient because the lower it gets, the more damage it does to the old firm, and that can only be good for competition in the SPL as the less money these parasites have to spend on quality signings the better.

 

The old firm are the only 2 clubs in Scotland who completely rely on European money, the rest of the league treat it as a bonus should it come their way, and if we lose a Europa League spot because of the dip in co efficient, then so be it because if we don't finish in the top 3 or 4 then we don't deserve to be there anyway.

 

Weakening the old firm is what it's all about, and closing the gap between them and the rest of us for me

 

Odense 2 Motherwell 0

[johnjl]

2 -0 Odense. Good goal.

Superb. 1 down 2 to go

[Therapist]

2 -0 Odense.

 

Tremendous.

[Sraman]

Steven Jennings (Who???) Sent off, second bookable offence.

[Budgie.]

So is the Celtic game on tv? Can only see Liverpool game listed on sky tv guide.

[Hearts of Vladland]

God help us.

 

 

Was going to make a example but you support Chelski and they have not had any success in Europe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On a serious note Italian football was one of the most watched league in the world then Spanish teams started doing better than Italian teams in Europe and is now watched more than Italian football. I am not saying we will have as much interest as Spanish football but if the quialty is better than what it has been of recent demand can only increase.

[Sraman]

2-1 Motherwell grab an away goal well into stoppage time.

 

Last kick of the game, free kick right in the top corner.

[P-Dizzle]

Must admit I'm with LP on this one, I couldn't give a flying feck about the co efficient because the lower it gets, the more damage it does to the old firm, and that can only be good for competition in the SPL as the less money these parasites have to spend on quality signings the better.

 

The old firm are the only 2 clubs in Scotland who completely rely on European money, the rest of the league treat it as a bonus should it come their way, and if we lose a Europa League spot because of the dip in co efficient, then so be it because if we don't finish in the top 3 or 4 then we don't deserve to be there anyway.

 

Weakening the old firm is what it's all about, and closing the gap between them and the rest of us for me

 

 

 

That's it.

 

 

 

Far more succinct than my posts too.

[johnjl]

2-1 Motherwell grab an away goal well into stoppage time.

 

Last kick of the game, free kick right in the top corner.

Lucky sods

[Sraman]

Lucky sods

 

They certainly were. 2 mins added time, Motherwell score on 4 mins over after referee decides to let them retake their free kick following a bit jostling in the box.

[The Old Tolbooth]

That's it.

 

 

 

Far more succinct than my posts too.

[Moncs]

Great result for Motherwell, well done

[AndyMcI]

So is the Celtic game on tv? Can only see Liverpool game listed on sky tv guide.

 

 

Only Liverpool and Aston Villa i think.

[Smoked-Glass]

Nothing wrong with supporting Dundee united and motherwell. i hope they do well in Europe as it's good for scottish non old firm teams to get the limelight.

 

Celtic are horrible but it's fun to watch them on the tv when they get screwed so will be more games to watch on the tv if they go through

[DB-14]

AEK 1-0.

 

Djebbour.

[Budgie.]

Only Liverpool and Aston Villa i think.

 

Cheers, radio it is then.

 

Not fussed about any of the other matches on tonight but really want Celtic to get beat. Cannot stand Lennon.

[Hearts of Vladland]

Palermo 2-0 NK Maribor

 

A certain ex Hearts LAD can't really call him a player is on the bench for Palermo.

 

 

[Sraman]

http://www.iraqgoals.net/11622-celtic-vs-fc-utrecht-.html

 

There you go teacher.

 

Celtic 1 - 0 up Samaras goal. booo.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Hope they all get absolutely shafted

Including the op.

[Budgie.]

http://www.iraqgoals.net/11622-celtic-vs-fc-utrecht-.html

 

There you go teacher.

 

Celtic 1 - 0 up Samaras goal. booo.

 

Much obliged.

[Rods]

Hope motherwell and United qaulify for two reason

 

They both dont have the squads to cope with Europa and the League plus cups. This perhaps making it easier for Hearts.

 

Also the much vaunted coeffincy(sp) we are in desperate need of some points

[alwaysthereinspirit]

http://www.iraqgoals...c-utrecht-.html

 

There you go teacher.

 

Celtic 1 - 0 up Samaras goal. booo.

 

 

Thanks for that. Is that Celtic TV? Commentator sounds like Father Ted.

[IMA MAROON]

I'd like to see the mhanky ones in the same group as Besiktas. I'd like to see them swap hats, scarves and badges. I'd just like it.

[Only a Game]

The coefficient is irrelevant. If the team's good enough it will qualify regardless.

 

Its massively relevant but not in the way people think.

 

Basically its an utterly corrupt mechanism, put in place by UEFA, supported and urged on by sponsors and television to ensure absolutely that the countries with the biggest audiences get the most teams in the business end of the two European competitions. It is grossly weighted in favour of 5 or 6 countries and its contrary to the whole ethos of a level playing field and sporting fairness.

 

A team finishing 4th in the Premiership gets into the Champions league, probably seeded in the last qualifying round and against a minnow theyve been engineered to play against and beat. Whilst the champions of Scotland and any other country rated below the elite 9 or 10 have to qualify, usually not seeded.Its simply a means od excluding smaller footballing nations from a big huge pie at the expense of football countries already awash with riches. Participation in European football is weighted heavily against Scotland in favour of clubs like fecking Monaco ???!!!???

 

The whole disgusting corrupt unfair system needs scrapped and a free draw system introduced before all credibility disappears forever.

 

A good decent team should get a fairer chance. Very good teams will make it irrespective of the system and poor teams wont. Decent teams in the middle are currently lumped in with the poor ones and very few of them break out of the near impossible task thats placed on them

[The Merse]

Its massively relevant but not in the way people think.

 

Basically its an utterly corrupt mechanism, put in place by UEFA, supported and urged on by sponsors and television to ensure absolutely that the countries with the biggest audiences get the most teams in the business end of the two European competitions. It is grossly weighted in favour of 5 or 6 countries and its contrary to the whole ethos of a level playing field and sporting fairness.

 

A team finishing 4th in the Premiership gets into the Champions league, probably seeded in the last qualifying round and against a minnow theyve been engineered to play against and beat. Whilst the champions of Scotland and any other country rated below the elite 9 or 10 have to qualify, usually not seeded.Its simply a means od excluding smaller footballing nations from a big huge pie at the expense of football countries already awash with riches. Participation in European football is weighted heavily against Scotland in favour of clubs like fecking Monaco ???!!!???

 

The whole disgusting corrupt unfair system needs scrapped and a free draw system introduced before all credibility disappears forever.

 

A good decent team should get a fairer chance. Very good teams will make it irrespective of the system and poor teams wont. Decent teams in the middle are currently lumped in with the poor ones and very few of them break out of the near impossible task thats placed on them

 

Agree with that.

 

I hate seeding altogether.

[shaun.lawson]

Its massively relevant but not in the way people think.

 

Basically its an utterly corrupt mechanism, put in place by UEFA, supported and urged on by sponsors and television to ensure absolutely that the countries with the biggest audiences get the most team in the business end of the two European competitions. It is grossly weighted in favour of 5 or 6 countries and its contrary to the whole ethos of a level playing field and sporting fairness.

 

A team finishing 4th in the Premiership gets into the Champions league, probably seeded in the last qualifying round and against a minnow theyve been engineered to play against and beat. Whilst the champions of Scotland and any other country rated below the elite 9 or 10 have to qualify, usually not seeded.Its simply a means od excluding smaller footballing nations from a big huge pie at the expense of football countries already awash with riches. Participation in European football is weighted heavily against Scotland in favour of clubs like fecking Monaco ???!!!???

 

The whole disgusting corrupt unfair system needs scrapped and a free draw system introduced before all credibility disappears forever

 

Not true, thanks to the changes UEFA have made to the CL qualifying system over the last couple of years. Champions of smaller countries are now properly rewarded; teams finishing 4th in England, Spain or Italy now face a tougher route to the group stages. It was merely by pure luck that Spurs 'only' drew Young Boys; yet look how tough they found that, and the tie isn't over yet anyway.

 

Beyond that: sorry OAG, but if UEFA did as you wish, the big clubs would just break away and form a closed Super League. Because they're so wealthy, the clubs have all the power here: UEFA can only do their best to keep them happy and under control. So we have coefficients, seeding, group stages in the CL and Europa League and so on because, with football run as a business, wealthy owners need to be able to guarantee a certain level of income over the years ahead: to militate against risk, in other words. You might not like it - but it's the way modern football is.

[P-Dizzle]

Yep, shaun.

 

The only thing keeping the top clubs in the UEFA competitions is that it's set up to help them out. If you took the top 20 clubs in Europe, and told them that the CL would no longer be overwhelmingly in their favour. They'd up sticks and most likely take UEFA's sponsors with them, in a closed shop competition, where lesser teams are brought in for the amusement of these big clubs and their fans, as they're crushed out and the money continues to circulate between the handful of clubs that hold all the cards.

 

 

Incidentally, do you agree with my assessment of Scotland's coefficent and how failure could reward us with a more competitive league and loosening that grip that the OF have on our game?

[shaun.lawson]

Yep, shaun.

 

The only thing keeping the top clubs in the UEFA competitions is that it's set up to help them out. If you took the top 20 clubs in Europe, and told them that the CL would no longer be overwhelmingly in their favour. They'd up sticks and most likely take UEFA's sponsors with them, in a closed shop competition, where lesser teams are brought in for the amusement of these big clubs and their fans, as they're crushed out and the money continues to circulate between the handful of clubs that hold all the cards.

 

 

Incidentally, do you agree with my assessment of Scotland's coefficent and how failure could reward us with a more competitive league and loosening that grip that the OF have on our game?

 

I think you may be partly right. But sorry: I don't want to see standards fall even further. In any case, as I've mentioned before, as the OF get worse, so in turn do the rest of us: meaning while the gap closes a bit, it still can't be bridged.

 

If things carry on as they are, and Scottish clubs' results in Europe remain so shocking (though credit to Motherwell, who have a real chance of a significant breakthrough), the game in Scotland will resemble 12 bald men fighting over a comb. And while it'd be wonderful if Hearts got our hands on that comb as a result, I want to see us actually doing something in Europe, and I want to see a much better product in Scotland altogether. Because the present state of affairs is not sustainable in any way.

[gorgie rd eh11]

Not true, thanks to the changes UEFA have made to the CL qualifying system over the last couple of years. Champions of smaller countries are now properly rewarded; teams finishing 4th in England, Spain or Italy now face a tougher route to the group stages. It was merely by pure luck that Spurs 'only' drew Young Boys; yet look how tough they found that, and the tie isn't over yet anyway.

 

Beyond that: sorry OAG, but if UEFA did as you wish, the big clubs would just break away and form a closed Super League. Because they're so wealthy, the clubs have all the power here: UEFA can only do their best to keep them happy and under control. So we have coefficients, seeding, group stages in the CL and Europa League and so on because, with football run as a business, wealthy owners need to be able to guarantee a certain level of income over the years ahead: to militate against risk, in other words. You might not like it - but it's the way modern football is.

 

 

 

 

 

The champions league will be the same old boring pish, with the same teams, from the same countrys, playing each other again and again. It's about selling beer and satellite dishes and gets further away from real competition every year.

[shaun.lawson]

The champions league will be the same old boring pish, with the same teams, from the same countrys, playing each other again and again. It's about selling beer and satellite dishes and gets further away from real competition every year.

 

I thought the Barcelona-Inter semi-final was bloody magnificent drama actually. Inter v Bayern represented a major break from English and Spanish domination too. As the World Cup confirmed, nothing compares to the CL knock-out stages in terms of standard: for football aesthetes, it's the pinnacle.

 

And I'm sure you regarded the CL as the "same old boring pish" when Hearts finished 2nd in 2006. 'Course you did.

[P-Dizzle]

I think you may be partly right. But sorry: I don't want to see standards fall even further. In any case, as I've mentioned before, as the OF get worse, so in turn do the rest of us: meaning while the gap closes a bit, it still can't be bridged.

 

If things carry on as they are, and Scottish clubs' results in Europe remain so shocking (though credit to Motherwell, who have a real chance of a significant breakthrough), the game in Scotland will resemble 12 bald men fighting over a comb. And while it'd be wonderful if Hearts got our hands on that comb as a result, I want to see us actually doing something in Europe, and I want to see a much better product in Scotland altogether. Because the present state of affairs is not sustainable in any way.

 

 

Good line.

 

I didn't actually say I wanted us to fail, but I did point out that failure could be what is needed to bring some change to our game. Much like the CL discussion we're having, nothing will be changed as long as the powerhouse teams are being favoured. If they refuse to change, something outwith their control will be required.

 

Our standards won't drop as a result of the OF becoming weaker. We never budget for Europe year in year our, it's not a factor for us. It's only a factor for Celtic and Rangers. TV revenue isn't an issue, as Therapist stated, the SPL rights are used to draw people in as an incentive to keep that service for the EPL, La Liga etc.

 

Our league is already slipping, and the OF are not falling at the same rate because they've been backed up by a system that was designed to protect them. If that safety net were to be cut, who really knows what would happen? I think it would be more competitive, and if any team were to get it right on the pitch, they could succeed.

 

Right now, there's a roof, and it's propped up by the millions of pounds that's handed to the OF. I would like to see that taken away.

 

 

 

Like I said, I'm not looking for failure. But the way things are going failure might have found us.

[Only a Game]

I think you may be partly right. But sorry: I don't want to see standards fall even further.

 

 

Shaun, quite honestly I couldnt give a stuff about the overall standard of Scottish football. Its been fecked for damn near 30 years anyway. And if I'm honest, the trips aspect of it apart, they could stop European football tomorrow for me and I wouldnt really care much from a Hearts in Europe point of view.

 

If it takes Celtic and Rangers to slither down to everybody elses level and we win the SPL on the back of it, the last thing I'll be thinking about as I drink myself into a coma on Gorgie Road is how poor the standard was.

 

You can say what you like but football is about 1 thing above all others and thats winning. No matter how you got there or who says its devalued because of this and because of that.

 

I bet Spain arent sitting there as World champions thinking it was one of the poorest World cups EVER !!!

[shaun.lawson]

 

Good line.

 

I didn't actually say I wanted us to fail, but I did point out that failure could be what is needed to bring some change to our game. Much like the CL discussion we're having, nothing will be changed as long as the powerhouse teams are being favoured. If they refuse to change, something outwith their control will be required.

 

Our standards won't drop as a result of the OF becoming weaker. We never budget for Europe year in year our, it's not a factor for us. It's only a factor for Celtic and Rangers. TV revenue isn't an issue, as Therapist stated, the SPL rights are used to draw people in as an incentive to keep that service for the EPL, La Liga etc.

 

Our league is already slipping, and the OF are not falling at the same rate because they've been backed up by a system that was designed to protect them. If that safety net were to be cut, who really knows what would happen? I think it would be more competitive, and if any team were to get it right on the pitch, they could succeed.

 

Right now, there's a roof, and it's propped up by the millions of pounds that's handed to the OF. I would like to see that taken away.

 

 

 

Like I said, I'm not looking for failure. But the way things are going failure might have found us.

 

Mmm... I think this is where we differ. See, if you look at Hearts a decade ago, and Hearts now, there's no comparison in terms of the quality of the side. And it's exactly the same in the OF's case too. As they get worse, we get worse, and the rest of the league gets worse; yet one or the other of them keep winning it anyway. The crucial factor has been the lack of money throughout Scottish football; and after the collapse of the SKY deal in 2002, the end of a pretty crazy credit bubble which at times sustained not just Rangers and Celtic, but the rest of us as well.

 

Rangers' team last season was, in many ways, appalling - yet it walked the SPL. Even with CL money harder to come by, I'd expect the OF to maintain a significant gap I'm afraid; and if you take away European football to shoot for for the rest of us, what will be left?

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun, quite honestly I couldnt give a stuff about the overall standard of Scottish football. Its been fecked for damn near 30 years anyway. And if I'm honest, the trips aspect of it apart, they could stop European football tomorrow for me and I wouldnt really care much from a Hearts in Europe point of view.

 

If it takes Celtic and Rangers to slither down to everybody elses level and we win the SPL on the back of it, the last thing I'll be thinking about as I drink myself into a coma on Gorgie Road is how poor the standard was.

 

You can say what you like but football is about 1 thing above all others and thats winning. No matter how you got there or who says its devalued because of this and because of that.

 

I bet Spain arent sitting there as World champions thinking it was one of the poorest World cups EVER !!!

 

That's because Spain are a tremendously high quality side. And again: the assumption that, as Rangers and Celtic slither down to our level, the rest of us won't carry on getting worse at the same rate isn't one I buy I'm afraid.

 

Look at how poor Rangers and Celtic's sides are. How do you account for the gap between them and the rest remaining as big as it has, at a time their European results have largely fallen off a cliff too?

[gorgie rd eh11]

I thought the Barcelona-Inter semi-final was bloody magnificent drama actually. Inter v Bayern represented a major break from English and Spanish domination too. As the World Cup confirmed, nothing compares to the CL knock-out stages in terms of standard: for football aesthetes, it's the pinnacle.

 

And I'm sure you regarded the CL as the "same old boring pish" when Hearts finished 2nd in 2006. 'Course you did.

 

 

 

Aye Barcelona, Inter, Bayern, good to see the smaller nations and smaller clubs in the mix.

 

 

Of course you get odd good game, i get that over the local park. Doesn't stop the majority of champions league games being predictable and dull.

[shaun.lawson]

Aye Barcelona, Inter, Bayern, good to see the smaller nations and smaller clubs in the mix.

 

 

Of course you get odd good game, i get that over the local park. Doesn't stop the majority of champions league games being predictable and dull.

 

In the group stages, I entirely agree (though there were a number of strange results last season in those). But in the knock-out stages, I couldn't disagree more. Only last season, Lyon-Real, Bayern-Fiorentina, Inter-Chelsea, Bayern-Man Utd, Arsenal-Barca and Inter-Barca were terrific ties.

[hughesie27]

More more time Dundee U Motherwell and Celtic stay in Europe the more chance they will sufffer from fatigue and boost our chances of jumping up a few places compared to last year!

[Sydney]

For once, I agree with you.

 

 

 

Dragging down the coefficient enough would see our league winners have to qualify for the Champions League. That means less money for the Old Firm, and makes them less attractive to foreign players.

 

Scottish teams failing in Europe could be very good for the SPL in terms of competition.

 

I used to like the Scottish teams doing well as it would mean a higher coefficient, but actually all that meant was that Rangers and Celtic were guaranteed more money by getting into the CL.

 

Scottish teams getting pumped = lower coefficient = less opportunities for R&C to get into CL = less money for them = more level playing field in Scotland.

 

Let's not forget, that the only reason the coefficient was up anyway was because of the Old Firm. The rest of us have contributed 2/3 of **** all in Europe in the last 20 years. So the coefficient dropping doesnt mean that Scotland's getting any worse - it just means that R&C are getting worse.

[Guest jambomickey]

good result for sellick and motherwell in with a fighting chance after away goal! wee craig broon done a good job since going there.

[linkin- hearts]

I'm not so sure,JM, think there's still a lot could happen in those ties yet:whistling:

[4marsbars]

Original name Dundee Hibernian. Enough said.

 

They deliberately changed that name nearly a century ago. Maybe they were making a statement about the kind of club they wanted to be.

 

Even the kind of sad person who thinks Hearts "traditions" favour a particular Irish flavour would have to be very "easily offended" for that to matter in 2010.

[The Treasurer]

In the group stages, I entirely agree (though there were a number of strange results last season in those). But in the knock-out stages, I couldn't disagree more. Only last season, Lyon-Real, Bayern-Fiorentina, Inter-Chelsea, Bayern-Man Utd, Arsenal-Barca and Inter-Barca were terrific ties.

 

So basically what you are saying is that the CL IS boring until you get to the knockout stage.

Sort of like it used to be before the rich clubs/TV companies started dictating how it should be formatted and who should be allowed to compete in it.

[NoseLikeMahe]

I must admit I shudder with embarassment then p!sh myself laughing at the myopic, irrational attitude of some total ramjets.

 

"I hope Celtic & Rangers get pumped in Europe, 'cause then they'll be a bit more rubbish and almost dragged down to our level of ineptitude"

 

Is that really the limit of your ambitions? To be covered in a slightly nicer colour of sh!te than the next guy? Pathetic.

 

On a footballing note - thought it was a creditable result for United. AEK are a top team, so if United can at least make the 2nd leg close, they'll have done our rep no harm. I reckon Motherwell will sneak through.

I watched the Celtic v Utrecht game on the internet while having the Liverpool game on the telly. Comfortable 2-0 win. Could've been more. The Israeli lad debuted in midfield and looked pretty good. If I was Watty I'd be a bit worried by the signs in that team.

[Guest Dipped Flake]

They deliberately changed that name nearly a century ago. Maybe they were making a statement about the kind of club they wanted to be.

 

Even the kind of sad person who thinks Hearts "traditions" favour a particular Irish flavour would have to be very "easily offended" for that to matter in 2010.

 

It's just one of his many ways to push his 'agenda'. Not sure how he gets away with it (apart from being banned a few times) but best to leave him to it. He is one of a dying breed (thank God)

[cosanostra]

Good results for Celtic and Motherwell.

 

Dundee United might be in trouble now though.

[KennyMcP]

I hope Unemployed Steelmen FC, Dungdeh Hivernians and the green and grey hoops all get smashed.

 

But if I had to choose one to get rogered, it'd be the dhims.

 

I usually ignore all your Chelsea related p1sh, but I can't let this comment go.

 

Any "supporter" that doesn't want progression and improvement for ALL Scottish clubs is just a part of the overall problem in my opinion.

 

So Rangers and Celtic profit more than we do from Europe etc.....so what??

The rest of us DO see a downstream benefit fom their European progress whether you like it or not.

 

I suppose you also hope that Scottish football continues its backward spiral, and that Hearts never make it to the champions league?

 

You'd probably support Chelsea if we were drawn in the same group anyway.

[gorgie rd eh11]

I must admit I shudder with embarassment then p!sh myself laughing at the myopic, irrational attitude of some total ramjets.

 

"I hope Celtic & Rangers get pumped in Europe, 'cause then they'll be a bit more rubbish and almost dragged down to our level of ineptitude"

 

Is that really the limit of your ambitions? To be covered in a slightly nicer colour of sh!te than the next guy? Pathetic.

 

On a footballing note - thought it was a creditable result for United. AEK are a top team, so if United can at least make the 2nd leg close, they'll have done our rep no harm. I reckon Motherwell will sneak through.

I watched the Celtic v Utrecht game on the internet while having the Liverpool game on the telly. Comfortable 2-0 win. Could've been more. The Israeli lad debuted in midfield and looked pretty good. If I was Watty I'd be a bit worried by the signs in that team.

 

 

 

Yeah it's boll*cks not wanting our competitors to have even more money to bash us over head with and make it even harder to compete with them.

 

I shudder with embarrassment at the total ramjets who want celtic and rangers to win using the whole co-efficient is good for scottish football cr*p as a reason.

 

On a footballing note i hope they all get stuffed.

[rossthejambo]

The Old Firm getting beat in Europe is a good thing as it will mean that THEY are less likely to be seeded in potential qualifying draws.

 

The rest, I'm not bothered about. I'd like to see Scottish teams doing not too bad in Europe outwith the Old Firm because it will show that we aren't just a 2 team league.

 

Also, as has been mentioned, more games for United and Motherwell means less chance they'll be challenging for 3rd.

 

I'd much rather that we pushed on to challenge the OF rather than them dropping down to our level tbh, otherwise Scottish football is going to die a slow and painful death.

[BervieJambo]

I really don't get people who don't care about the Scottish co-efficient. Without a moderate level of Euro success the SPL will quickly diminish to the same level as the League of Wales. It may level the playing field within Scotland, but are people so short-sighted that they would be happy to see a part-time Hearts team playing at a similar standard as Llanelli while being good enough to challenge for the league title (probably because they are only 5 other teams left in the league as the rest have all gone bust).

 

Hearts will not improve by dragging down the level of the oppostion, Hearts will only get dragged down too. It's like saying you want Hearts to get relegated so their is a higher chance of winning a league next season. Completely bonkers.