Therapist Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 :4_1_72: Excuse me, millions. Fair play to you Toggie, at least you admitted your mistake. I could put forward a good fact-based argument that says the Royal Family is a net generator of income for UK plc but I can't be ersed at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Harris Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 This is a fatuous attempt to impose 19th century jingoism onto a 21st century community. It's a weak imitation of an American ritual that's been performed daily by schoolchildren before classes for decades. Do Americans have a better "sense of belonging" than Britons, as a result? This daft idea will never come to fruition. The British people are too smart to fall for it. it's not just an american thing, countries all round the world have similar rituals. National pride isn't necessarily jingoistic - at least, it doesn't have to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I wouldn't **** on the queen if she was on fire. Or any of the royal family infact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 National pride isn't necessarily jingoistic - at least, it doesn't have to be. True enough. But I think that national pride comes through the accomplishments of a nation's citizens, not through legislation. And the UK already has many reasons for it's citizens to feel pride in their country. This oath of allegance suggestion is not only daft, it's unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart MacD Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Daily prayers and saluting the flag next. But as Ulysses said, it's not going to happen. "Very brave suggestion. Minister". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Will it stop terrorism and benefit fraud? No, believe it or not terrorists tell porkies (or whatever the muslim equivalent is) when asked if they are terrorists. I love the question on the form to enter the USA that asks if you are a terrorist. I doubt they get many people saying yes to that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Harris Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 True enough. But I think that national pride comes through the accomplishments of a nation's citizens, not through legislation. And the UK already has many reasons for it's citizens to feel pride in their country. This oath of allegance suggestion is not only daft, it's unnecessary. I'd probably agree to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I wouldn't **** on the queen if she was on fire. Or any of the royal family infact. Don't mind her at all - she seems a very hard-working and humble woman who is unfortunate enough to have a fairly revolting family, her daughter excepted. I'm much more concerned about New Labour's plastic patriotism. I wonder how much taxpayers' money was squandered on this latest ill-advised venture. No doubt Goldsmith will have coined it in for coming up with this frankly ludicrous pile of jizz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 No, believe it or not terrorists tell porkies (or whatever the muslim equivalent is) when asked if they are terrorists. The easy way to get round this is to ask people to swear on oath that Her Majesty The Queen is superior to the Prophet. Job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 The easy way to get round this is to ask people to swear on oath that Her Majesty The Queen is superior to the Prophet. Job done. But Liz got the job because her old man had it before her. The Prophet , may he be praised, was selected for the job by the all merciful Allah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 The easy way to get round this is to ask people to swear on oath that Her Majesty The Queen is superior to the Prophet. Job done. Despite the absence of smilies, I know that you are not being completely serious in that statement. Any Muslim who swears an oath that a Christian infidel is superior to the Prophet would be guilty of heresy. And heresy is a capital offense under Islamic law. But then, you knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 It'll never happen, and quite right too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 If anybody thinks that i'm going to swear allegiance to that old inbred gin-soaked sponging hun, can go lie in their pish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 The easy way to get round this is to ask people to swear on oath that Her Majesty The Queen is superior to the Prophet. Job done. So all terrorists are Muslim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Patriotism is an outdated method of encouraging the lower classes to go off and bleed in foreign countries so the upper classes can chill out back home. It's a round world after all. The best post on this thread was the one that said respect is earned and not given. I'll swear allegiance to the Queen as soon as she comes round and does my dishes or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychocAndy Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Well said. We should be ensuring that the concept of Britishness is part of their psyche from the time they're old enough to read. Regarding the current proposal, I'd actually go a step further and say that anyone who refused to swear allegiance to Britain and Her Majesty should be put on a central register and monitored by the police and security services. Where do I sign this central register. I have nothing against Elizabeth II (when was there an Elizabeth I of Britan?), but I also have nothing for her. All her brats can cuddle it though. Union of Socalist Scottish Republic will do me fine ,mind you seems familiar :107years: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinross jambo Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 this sums it up. http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/school-leavers-to-pledge-allegiance-to-some-old-cow-20080311783/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 porkies (or whatever the muslim equivalent is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bistokid Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Well said. We should be ensuring that the concept of Britishness is part of their psyche from the time they're old enough to read.Regarding the current proposal, I'd actually go a step further and say that anyone who refused to swear allegiance to Britain and Her Majesty should be put on a central register and monitored by the police and security services. Please enlighten me. Can you explain what Britishness actually is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Please enlighten me. Can you explain what Britishness actually is? Exactly. As I alluded to in post #9 - until you have some idea of what Britishness actually is, how can you swear allegance to the flag ? I've got some ideas so I'll start. 1. Respect and tolerance for your neighbour. 2. Freedom of speech and respect for UK law & order. 3. One set of laws for everyone. 4. The ability to speak English. Must be loads more; feel free to add or subtract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Exactly. As I alluded to in post #9 - until you have some idea of what Britishness actually is, how can you swear allegance to the flag ? I've got some ideas so I'll start. 1. Respect and tolerance for your neighbour. 2. Freedom of speech and respect for UK law & order. 3. One set of laws for everyone. 4. The ability to speak English. Must be loads more; feel free to add or subtract That's a good list to start with. I can't think of anything to add, nor would I take anything off. I'm passionate about being Scottish when it comes to sport & my heritage even though I don't identify so well with many of my compatriots in many regards (esp. those from the West of the country). I really don't care about referring to myself as British since I come from Britain but I'd struggle say what it is that defines me as British rather than, say, Irish (my Mum's side) other than the place of my birth & education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boaby Ewing Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 That's a good list to start with. I can't think of anything to add, nor would I take anything off. I'm passionate about being Scottish when it comes to sport & my heritage even though I don't identify so well with many of my compatriots in many regards (esp. those from the West of the country). I really don't care about referring to myself as British since I come from Britain but I'd struggle say what it is that defines me as British rather than, say, Irish (my Mum's side) other than the place of my birth & education. I'm tempted to say a healthy disrespect for those in power. Not sure if everyone would agree, but it's always struck me as part of being British, hence finding those whole idea a tad ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I'm tempted to say a healthy disrespect for those in power. Not sure if everyone would agree, but it's always struck me as part of being British, hence finding those whole idea a tad ridiculous. I didn't study history all that much but I think that the disrespect for those in power is only a relatively recent thing (post WW2?) Surely we wouldn't have ended up with the ruling classes we've got if the national psyche was ill-disposed towards it over centuries? Irony, cynicism, stoicism. They'd all be character traits I'd associate with Brits over many other nations but are by no means unique to these parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makween Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I swear allegiance to the Queen twice daily anyway, once when I get up and once before bed. In my view, anyone who doesn't do this isn't a good citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I didn't study history all that much but I think that the disrespect for those in power is only a relatively recent thing (post WW2?) Surely we wouldn't have ended up with the ruling classes we've got if the national psyche was ill-disposed towards it over centuries? Irony, cynicism, stoicism. They'd all be character traits I'd associate with Brits over many other nations but are by no means unique to these parts. Reckon it's pretty difficult to define Britishness. Nevertheless until someone in government has a go..all you're potentially swearing allegance to is a piece of cloth and a wrinkled old lady. There's an argument Britishness doesn't exist anyhow; today there's a wider UK coumminity defined loosely as Asian-British; Scottish-British; Chinese etc all of whom have separate identities, but shelter under the same umbrella. If someone can come up with a set of rules or guidelines, similar to a Constitution I suppose, which embraces everyone who chooses to live here, swearing allegance seems pointless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Nationalism is soooo 20th century Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinross jambo Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Nationalism is soooo 20th century i think you mean imperialism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 i think you mean imperialism. You'll find that was sooooooo 19th:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Might please some folk. Good or bad? Here's the link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7287984.stm Great idea, and if they refuse shoot the bar stewards, in a politically correct way of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 The Monarchy is a joke, a fascist regime that cost this country billions. It quite frankly disgusts me. Stop slavering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinross jambo Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 You'll find that was sooooooo 19th:p hmmmmm http://encarta.msn.com/media_461516679_761566125_-1_1/british_empire_early_20th_century.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo walesy Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I'd be quite happy to swear allegiance to my country(be it Britain or Scotland) The queen however means nothing to me,saying that i would do it but it would cause a lot of problems imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 hmmmmm http://encarta.msn.com/media_461516679_761566125_-1_1/british_empire_early_20th_century.html During the late 19th and early 20th centuries ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Might please some folk. Good or bad? Here's the link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7287984.stm Not before time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish1979 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Might please some folk. Good or bad? Here's the link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7287984.stm I'll never be proud that I'm considered "British" by others. I don't consider myself British - and if I am, they've got me on a technicality. There's nothing about the union that I would be proud of. The idea of kids standing in class with their hands on their hearts, swearing allegiance to an impotent monarchy and (IMO) a government consisting mainly of semi-retarded, inept pompous pwicks, ruling over a "nation" that does its utmost to embarrass itself at every given opportunity smacks of fascism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I'll never be proud that I'm considered "British" by others. I don't consider myself British - and if I am, they've got me on a technicality. There's nothing about the union that I would be proud of. The idea of kids standing in class with their hands on their hearts, swearing allegiance to an impotent monarchy and (IMO) a government consisting mainly of semi-retarded, inept pompous pwicks, ruling over a "nation" that does its utmost to embarrass itself at every given opportunity smacks of fascism. Brilliant post. I'd rather nail my nutsack to a table than swear an oath of loyalty to the queen. As for being British, that's not something I would ever like to admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vulture Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I'd remove all government subsidy of further education. It's a student's choice to continue studying and I don't see why the public purse should give them any help. That's a fair enough point, but where then how would we train people up who come out of university with good degrees that benefit society ? For example doctors, nurses, optometrists, teachers, civil engineers, dentists, paediatricians physiotherapists, etc ? You can only get such training by doing it in the form of a degree. Yes if you are doing a degree in Basket making or American Studies , fair enough, make the person pay, but if the person does a degree in an area where there is a skills shortage, well I don't think they should pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart MacD Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I swear allegiance to the Queen twice daily anyway, once when I get up and once before bed. In my view, anyone who doesn't do this isn't a good citizen. Only twice? You'll never qualify for a Chelsea avator then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwull22 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 We're not citizens we're subjects(with no bill of rights), check your passports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 The Queen can lick my hairy butt hoop and "Britain" can do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 This one sums up my opinion: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/mark-steel/mark-steel-lets-be-modern-and-swear-an-oath-to-the-monarchy-794428.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makween Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Only twice? You'll never qualify for a Chelsea avator then. I keep a framed picture of Lizzie on my wall, sometimes I give her a little kiss for good luck. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeP Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I'm very proud to be Scottish, and okay with being British. However, I may be old fashioned in my views and perhaps a tad Nationalistic, but she's not my Queen - we never had a Queen Elizabeth the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I keep a framed picture of Lizzie on my wall, sometimes I give her a little kiss for good luck. x That's a bit odd... you being catholic and all. Mind you...I have seen a nun sing Rule Britania (no joke). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 God bless the Queen, Great Britain and all who reside within. (except Celtic fans) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 That's a bit odd... you being catholic and all. Mind you...I have seen a nun sing Rule Britania (no joke). No reason why not; it's a good sing along tune! She might have been singing the alternative (rugby song) words, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottish_chicP Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I'll never be proud that I'm considered "British" by others. I don't consider myself British - and if I am, they've got me on a technicality. There's nothing about the union that I would be proud of. The idea of kids standing in class with their hands on their hearts, swearing allegiance to an impotent monarchy and (IMO) a government consisting mainly of semi-retarded, inept pompous pwicks, ruling over a "nation" that does its utmost to embarrass itself at every given opportunity smacks of fascism. What he said. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Well said. We should be ensuring that the concept of Britishness is part of their psyche from the time they're old enough to read. Regarding the current proposal, I'd actually go a step further and say that anyone who refused to swear allegiance to Britain and Her Majesty should be put on a central register and monitored by the police and security services. That's the polis after me then. I didn't even swear allegiance to the Queen even having served in the British Navy for 11yrs. Work that one out my Therapist. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 That's the polis after me then. I didn't even swear allegiance to the Queen even having served in the British Navy for 11yrs. Work that one out my Therapist. John Whether you verbalized your oath or not you served in the ROYAL navy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish1979 Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Whether you verbalized your oath or not you served in the ROYAL navy. Pffft, it's a job. If I joined the navy, it'd be because it looks awesome, not because I felt any loyalty to some old dear that speaks to us on the telly once a year and opens the odd monument. As has been previously stated, outdated, insular pesh, propagated by mindless, drooling morons trying their retarded hearts out so that they can get their tuppence worth in before they die from stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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