Gordon Brown getting slaughtered over NI

[Therapist]

Business leaders - including one of his advisers - are queueing up to cream him. He's refusing to even discuss the topic now and is trying to dodge the question.

 

Brown is a self-obsessed, obstinate, idiot and this will prove to be one of the key reasons why he'll be moving out of Number 10 on 7 May.

 

Bye bye Gordon. Don't come back. Ever.

[Currahee!]

Business leaders - including one of his advisers - are queueing up to cream him. He's refusing to even discuss the topic now and is trying to dodge the question.

 

Brown is a self-obsessed, obstinate, idiot and this will prove to be one of the key reasons why he'll be moving out of Number 10 on 7 May.

 

Bye bye Gordon. Don't come back. Ever.

 

One way for him to guarantee he stays at no. 10 for 5 more years is to cut fuel duty by a big margin.

 

This imo would guarantee any party the win.

[blairdin]

Business leaders - including one of his advisers - are queueing up to cream him. He's refusing to even discuss the topic now and is trying to dodge the question.

 

Brown is a self-obsessed, obstinate, idiot and this will prove to be one of the key reasons why he'll be moving out of Number 10 on 7 May.

 

Bye bye Gordon. Don't come back. Ever.

 

 

I'm not a huge fan of Cameron, but he ripped Brown a new one on this subject at PMQs today. Keptme amused whilst stuck at home today...

[Therapist]

I'm not a huge fan of Cameron, but he ripped Brown a new one on this subject at PMQs today. Keptme amused whilst stuck at home today...

 

Just saw it on the news. At one stage Brown was so flustered, he started to sound like a Dalek. When they refuse to address the question put to them, you know they're cacking themselves.

[The Rev]

I've got a very sneaky feeling that Brown is somehow going to sneak this election.

 

I pray to the high heavens that I'm wrong.

[blairdin]

I've got a very sneaky feeling that Brown is somehow going to sneak this election.

 

I pray to the high heavens that I'm wrong.

 

 

I had the same concerns, but the more household names come out and rubbish his NI plans the more people will sit up and take notice.

 

What worries me more is the way the Lib Dems and Labour seem to be more or less alligning themselves over some other policies. I've been impressed with the Lib Dems over the last few months, but on day 2 of the election campaign and they might be on the way to undoing all of that.

[Therapist]

New Labour have painted themselves into a corner on NI. I can only see the number of business leaders queueing up to criticise Brown growing substantially. Brown is so stubborn that he won't change even when he is staring defeat in the face.

[Tommy Wiseau]

New Labour are a disaster zone, but my word, the Tories under Cameron would **** us harder than Ron Jeremy - and with less warmth.

[Therapist]

the Tories under Cameron would **** us harder than Ron Jeremy - and with less warmth.

 

What's led you to that conclusion?

[Deek]

a self-obsessed, obstinate, idiot

 

[Victorian]

at least labour have been reasonably clear about how they are going to achieve their cuts and fund their spending. as ever cameron and his pompous twit sidekick are all rhetoric and absolutely no substantive policy.

 

vote tory - vote for the complete unknown.

[Therapist]

at least labour have been reasonably clear about how they are going to achieve their cuts and fund their spending.

 

 

They've been anything but. They have said they will find "efficiencies". Hardly likely given the bloated public sector they've created since 1997.

 

For the good of the nation, New Labour should withdraw from the election.

[Victorian]

Just saw it on the news. At one stage Brown was so flustered, he started to sound like a Dalek. When they refuse to address the question put to them, you know they're cacking themselves.

 

when the opposition can't raise the debate above personal attacks on the incumbent PM then you know you're looking at political lightweight chancers.

[Victorian]

They've been anything but. They have said they will find "efficiencies". Hardly likely given the bloated public sector they've created since 1997.

 

For the good of the nation, New Labour should withdraw from the election.

 

you've got that the wrong way round. if the public sector is so bloated then surely there's plenty scope for efficiency savings.

 

i used to work in the public sector and i can say without doubt that the squeeze has been on for years with plenty more to come. local government could easily do with a good diet.

[Therapist]

when the opposition can't raise the debate above personal attacks on the incumbent PM then you know you're looking at political lightweight chancers.

 

How is asking Brown if he thinks the "business leaders who employ in excess of one million people are wrong" a personal attack.

[Therapist]

you've got that the wrong way round. if the public sector is so bloated then surely there's plenty scope for efficiency savings.

 

And yet Brown refuses to say precisely where the "efficiencies" will come from...

[Private Hudson]

Just saw it on the news. At one stage Brown was so flustered, he started to sound like a Dalek. When they refuse to address the question put to them, you know they're cacking themselves.

 

I seem to recall several unanswered questions directed at you on previous 'political' threads you've started.

[Therapist]

I seem to recall several unanswered questions directed at you on previous 'political' threads you've started.

 

As I explained, certain posters are way too long winded so I get bored with them. And anyway, I'm not the one standing for PM.

[Victorian]

How is asking Brown if he thinks the "business leaders who employ in excess of one million people are wrong" a personal attack.

NIC is one issue among many.

 

business leaders in criticism of policy which is against their interests sensation. well i never.

 

personally i would prefer a fairer suite of taxes than an increase in NIC which is often used as a stealth tax. it is only one issue among many though and the tories appear to somewhat short on interesting ideas. they certainly aren't keen on sharing their plans with the electorate.

[Snake Plissken]

 

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

As I explained, certain posters are way too long winded so I get bored with them. And anyway, I'm not the one standing for PM.

 

That's the country's loss IMO, most of your posts are in keeping with party political broadcasts and full of the same substance.

[Frankie Pal]

Gordon Brown is right when he says the Tories are deceiving people over NI. No matter who wins the election, taxes will have to rise. At least NI is a progressive tax - you only pay if you are working and the amount you pay depends on how much you earn.

If, as seems likely, the Tories raise VAT then everyone pays, whether you are working or are a pensioner, and everyone pays the same, whether you are a pensioner or a millionaire. What's fair about that?

I know who I will be voting for - Labour for a fairer society.

[Private Hudson]

As I explained, certain posters are way too long winded so I get bored with them. And anyway, I'm not the one standing for PM.

 

He'll be along in a minute to tie a knot on the end of this thread as well I imagine.

[Victorian]

That's the country's loss IMO, most of your posts are in keeping with party political broadcasts and full of the same substance.

as a business leader lionflaps what do you think of the posh tory boys cameron and osbourne?

[Therapist]

If, as seems likely, the Tories raise VAT then everyone pays, whether you are working or are a pensioner, and everyone pays the same, whether you are a pensioner or a millionaire. What's fair about that?

 

The Conservatives have said they will not raise VAT.

 

But if they did, surely if everyone pays more it's fairer than if only certain people pay? Or am I missing something here? All animals are equal but some are more equal than others - George Orwell, Animal Farm.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

Brown is like an awkward clumsy teenager trapped in a mans body.

 

That's my contribution to the election talk, see you in four years.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

as a business leader lionflaps what do you think of the posh tory boys cameron and osbourne?

 

 

They look terrified they might actually get the gig to me, doubt it though.

[Victorian]

Brown is like an awkward clumsy teenager trapped in a mans body.

 

That's my contribution to the election talk, see you in four years.

 

similarly i was going to post that he's a proper politician and economist trapped in an unfortunately dour and volcanic tempered nutcase.

 

They look terrified they might actually get the gig to me, doubt it though.

 

bullingdon club dandies who should be kept as far away from government as is humanly possible.

[Frankie Pal]

Didn't think I would convince "Therapist". After all, didn't he say he was thinking about voting BNP?

'Nuff said!

[Corstojohn]

New Labour are a disaster zone, but my word, the Tories under Cameron would **** us harder than Ron Jeremy - and with less warmth.

Well said that man.

[Victorian]

where is therapist anyway?

 

away trying to find a properly costed tory policy?

 

working out how lord ashcroft fits in to his tory taxation utopia?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

at least labour have been reasonably clear about how they are going to achieve their cuts and fund their spending. as ever cameron and his pompous twit sidekick are all rhetoric and absolutely no substantive policy.

 

vote tory - vote for the complete unknown.

 

 

 

Agree with your second point though, although the Tories ran scared after saying "the age of austerity" (which there will be) and were hammered in the opinion polls.

 

As I've said before, this is an election no one should want to win.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Gordon Brown is right when he says the Tories are deceiving people over NI. No matter who wins the election, taxes will have to rise. At least NI is a progressive tax - you only pay if you are working and the amount you pay depends on how much you earn.

If, as seems likely, the Tories raise VAT then everyone pays, whether you are working or are a pensioner, and everyone pays the same, whether you are a pensioner or a millionaire. What's fair about that?

I know who I will be voting for - Labour for a fairer society.

 

 

Your comment is correct about taxes having to rise alongside major cuts in spending. Brown is havering though when he claims a cancelled tax rise (not a tax cut) takes ?6bn out of the economy.

 

Can anyone give the muppet an Economics textbook? A tax rise does not put money into the economy!

[jambos are go!]

Your comment is correct about taxes having to rise alongside major cuts in spending. Brown is havering though when he claims a cancelled tax rise (not a tax cut) takes ?6bn out of the economy.

 

Can anyone give the muppet an Economics textbook? A tax rise does not put money into the economy!

So what does and where does the money go.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So what does and where does the money go.

 

 

What puts money into an economy is private or public sector investment that produces a value-add at the end via a multiplier effect or profit creation.

 

This tax rise is simply to maintain current spending.

[jambos are go!]

As I explained, certain posters are way too long winded so I get bored with them. And anyway, I'm not the one standing for PM.

I asked a simple and short question you have ducked. What were the good ideas you heard from David Cameron on TV 2 Sundays ago.

[jambos are go!]

What puts money into an economy is private or public sector investment that produces a value-add at the end via a multiplier effect or profit creation.

 

This tax rise is simply to maintain current spending.

So if Brown puts the money From the NI rise into Public Sector investment it puts money into the economy? Are you being consistent?

[upthehill]

Gordon Brown is right when he says the Tories are deceiving people over NI. No matter who wins the election, taxes will have to rise. At least NI is a progressive tax - you only pay if you are working and the amount you pay depends on how much you earn.

If, as seems likely, the Tories raise VAT then everyone pays, whether you are working or are a pensioner, and everyone pays the same, whether you are a pensioner or a millionaire. What's fair about that?

I know who I will be voting for - Labour for a fairer society.

 

NI - you only pay when you are working? Not the whole story. Your employer also pays - and a bigger contribution than you do. That's why small businessmen like me & the biggest ones in the country like Tom Farmer, Tom Hunter, Stelios etc all call it a tax on jobs. Every new job I create will cost me more money under Labour than it will under the Conservatives. Businesses struggling up and down the country will have their bills increased just for maintaining the status quo jobs wise. This means that jobs will be lost in lots of companies. So a raise in NI means less new jobs, and more redundancies. Mandelson/Darling et al agree that this policy will result in job losses - that's not boosting the recovery!

 

As for Tories raising VAT the Conservatives have ruled it out - Labour & their bedfellows the Lib Dems have refused to rule it out.

[The Mighty Thor]

Any sign of any policies from Dave and the boys yet?

 

I suspect we'll see 4 weeks of Dave & Gideon trying to keep the focus on Brown in case anyone asks any pertinent questions.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So if Brown puts the money From the NI rise into Public Sector investment it puts money into the economy? Are you being consistent?

 

 

I'm being consistent because (a) he isn't and ( there is no room for the public sector to invest with the deficit being at the level it is. The only way the UK will get out of the mess is to create value added exports from the private sector.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

NI - you only pay when you are working? Not the whole story. Your employer also pays - and a bigger contribution than you do. That's why small businessmen like me & the biggest ones in the country like Tom Farmer, Tom Hunter, Stelios etc all call it a tax on jobs. Every new job I create will cost me more money under Labour than it will under the Conservatives. Businesses struggling up and down the country will have their bills increased just for maintaining the status quo jobs wise. This means that jobs will be lost in lots of companies. So a raise in NI means less new jobs, and more redundancies. Mandelson/Darling et al agree that this policy will result in job losses - that's not boosting the recovery!

 

As for Tories raising VAT the Conservatives have ruled it out - Labour & their bedfellows the Lib Dems have refused to rule it out.

 

That's because VAT will rise, no matter who wins.

[The Mighty Thor]

As for Tories raising VAT the Conservatives have ruled it out

 

They haven't. They haven't committed to anything as yet in manifesto.

 

What they have said in very very vague terms is that they can find over ?6 billion of efficiency savings to negate the effect of the NIC increase.

[jambos are go!]

I'm being consistent because (a) he isn't and ( there is no room for the public sector to invest with the deficit being at the level it is. The only way the UK will get out of the mess is to create value added exports from the private sector.

Surely there be 6 Billion to invest if the NI rise went ahead. Remember Brown wants to reduce the deficit in a balanced way which you seem to dismiiss Why?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Surely there be 6 Billion to invest if the NI rise went ahead. Remember Brown wants to reduce the deficit in a balanced way which you seem to dismiiss Why?

 

 

No, there won't be. That's because the 2nd biggest component of government expenditure will be debt interest (up 53% in 2010-11).

 

That ?6bn rise is peanuts in comparison with overall spending of ?650bn odds and a debt that is headed for ?1.4 trillion, even with Darling's planned deficit reductions and the rates of growth he has pencilled in. The fact that it has become a dividing line shows the standard of debate.

[jambos are go!]

No, there won't be. That's because the 2nd biggest component of government expenditure will be debt interest (up 53% in 2010-11).

 

That ?6bn rise is peanuts in comparison with overall spending of ?650bn odds and a debt that is headed for ?1.4 trillion, even with Darling's planned deficit reductions and the rates of growth he has pencilled in. The fact that it has become a dividing line shows the standard of debate.

If its peanuts why all the fuss. BTW do I not recall you agreeing that the deficit would be cut on another of these threads? And agreeing that Browns policies were broadly right?

[Frankie Pal]

Remember all those business "leaders" saying in 1997 that the minimom wage would cost a million jobs? They got that one wrong.

[Old School]

Brown took a total pounding today.

[Danny Wilde]

Agree with Geoff, the victory cup in this election is really a poison chalice. If I were a Conservative - which I'm not - then the best long-term outcome would probably be a Labour win, propped up by the LibDems in a coalition that will fall apart when the IMF and the markets call time on it in 6-12-18 months time. Conservative landslide on the back of that and 2 or 3 terms of unfettered Conservative rule as Labour rips itself to shreds and the country swallows a long period of Conservative economic doctrine. And for which Labour will take all the root-cause blame - mostly justifiably - for many years to come.

[kitster]

Agree with Geoff, the victory cup in this election is really a poison chalice. If I were a Conservative - which I'm not - then the best long-term outcome would probably be a Labour win, propped up by the LibDems in a coalition that will fall apart when the IMF and the markets call time on it in 6-12-18 months time. Conservative landslide on the back of that and 2 or 3 terms of unfettered Conservative rule as Labour rips itself to shreds and the country swallows a long period of Conservative economic doctrine. And for which Labour will take all the root-cause blame - mostly justifiably - for many years to come.

 

I agree with Geoff, and I agree with you. Good post. I don't think we are allowed a hung parliament for such a long length as 18 months, I thought it was 6 months before another election had to be called shortly after. No doubt someone will correct me if wrong.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

If its peanuts why all the fuss. BTW do I not recall you agreeing that the deficit would be cut on another of these threads? And agreeing that Browns policies were broadly right?

 

I can't quite fathom why anyone could believe that the ?6 billion will be more effectively spent by the government than the private individuals and companies who's pockets the money actually will be taken from if this idiotic job tax ever becomes reality. Then again there's no end to how Gordon Brown will try to distort what he says whether it's about this issue, the 10% tax rate we discussed a few days ago, or the 'support' he gave the armed forces or countless others.