Tram tax

[davieholt]

Now that the proposed redevelopment of the old stand comprises only a replacement stand with no hotel or leasure components, will they still be required to pay a tram tax contribution ?

 

I notice that hotel developers down Leith Walk are in dispute with the council who want a ?860k contribution.

[mundojambo]

Now that the proposed redevelopment of the old stand comprises only a replacement stand with no hotel or leasure components, will they still be required to pay a tram tax contribution ?

 

I notice that hotel developers down Leith Walk are in dispute with the council who want a ?860k contribution.

 

good question. i think in the case that they don't finish on time, there should be breach of contract issues and they should pay a contribution for our stand. in fact, why dont they anyway? if we didn't build our stand then less people would use the trams, they should be giving us money!!

[Independence]

good question. i think in the case that they don't finish on time, there should be breach of contract issues and they should pay a contribution for our stand. in fact, why dont they anyway? if we didn't build our stand then less people would use the trams, they should be giving us money!!

 

 

 

Agreed. The trams are one of the Labour party policies that they must be ashamed of!

[johnjl]

a bit off topic but i take my chances when i can the council and scottish parliament are a shower of **** they all should be locked up for spending our money on something the vast majority of us didn`t want

[The Treasurer]

The Council are using any means they can to try and raise funds for the joke that they call a tram system.

I think this was one of the original stumbling blocks to planning permission in that Hearts refused to be held to ransome over something that they'd get little benefit from

[davieholt]

The Council are using any means they can to try and raise funds for the joke that they call a tram system.

I think this was one of the original stumbling blocks to planning permission in that Hearts refused to be held to ransome over something that they'd get little benefit from

 

Yeah, that was my recollection too.

 

The question is, in the diseased minds of our councilors, did they imagine that the hotel or the stadium would benefit (sic) most from the trams ? So is this very much smaller development going to be saddled with a disproportionatly high tram charge ?

 

Even at this late stage, I wish they would scrap the whole bloody thing.

[jambojim52]

The fact that the nearest tram stop is the other side of Muddyfield, it's a push to see how the council can expect Hearts to pay anything!

[Maroon tinted glasses 2]

It would be better if all local businesses affected by the whole shambolic situation set up a fund ie-Gorgie traders fund, west end traders fund ect, then any developments that would have to pay a fee for tram tax would then put this fee into the local fund to be distributed amongst those traders who. This way none of the greedy execs who have already made a complete mess of the trambolics would get their hands on any of the cash!!

[N User]

will Hibs need to pay it for their stand?

We were told Hearts would have to.

[Nucky Thompson]

We won't need to pay a tram tax anymore because all we are doing now is upgrading something that is already there rather than a new development like a hotel etc. It's only new use private developments that have to pay towards the trams.

[Thig Ar Latha]

a bit off topic but i take my chances when i can the council and scottish parliament are a shower of **** they all should be locked up for spending our money on something the vast majority of us didn`t want

 

Nothing to do with the Scottish Parliament, its a Council venture.

[N User]

Nothing to do with the Scottish Parliament, its a Council venture.

 

Which the SNP tried to stop as soon as they got into power.

 

Labour and Lib dems voted them down to make a political point.

[Chester™]

Nothing to do with the Scottish Parliament, its a Council venture.

 

It is:

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/acts2006/asp_20060007_en_1

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/acts2006/asp_20060006_en_1

 

Both acts passed by the Scottish Parliament, which all but the SNP voted in favour of. Its also the reason there is no more cash, as the Government is already funding ?500m of Scottish Taxpayers money to pay for them, and is refusing to give the Council anymore.

[Independence]

Which the SNP tried to stop as soon as they got into power.

 

Labour and Lib dems voted them down to make a political point.

 

Spot on! The SNP tried as soon as they took power (minority govt.) in the Scottish parliament to throw it out but the Labour/Liberal MSP's joined together to keep it going. They should all hang their heads in shame!

[jambojim52]

Spot on! The SNP tried as soon as they took power (minority govt.) in the Scottish parliament to throw it out but the Labour/Liberal MSP's joined together to keep it going. They should all hang their heads in shame!

 

Don't forget the Tories and Greens also voted for it.

[jamboinglasgow]

Mon the Trams.

[jambogarry]

Can anyone get in touch with protest pete?

Pretty sure he will be shaking with rage over this.

[troonmaroon]

The fact that the nearest tram stop is the other side of Muddyfield, it's a push to see how the council can expect Hearts to pay anything!

 

That's not true. The stop will be on the Tynie side of Murrayfield. It'll come out onto roseburn st - just beyond the bridge - where it meets the western approach road. However, I agree it's a complete nonsense that they expect Hearts to contribute!!

[Tommy Wiseau]

Mon the Tram.

 

 

Fixed that for you.

[john brownlee]

I bet the tyni high skool has never contributed to the tram stop, that's a new build, but of course is cooncil project, as usual one law for them and another for us.

Another thing shirley the tram stops should be part of the original costing not an after thought con', designed to screw money out of unsuspecting projects.[/font]

[portobellojambo1]

The fact that the nearest tram stop is the other side of Muddyfield, it's a push to see how the council can expect Hearts to pay anything!

 

I'm only guessing here JJ52, but is the actual tram stop, which will be called Murrayfield, not most likely to be somewhere around the street that goes under the bridge just where the bypass thingy starts (somewhere around Wolfson Microelectronics, on Westfield Road possibly) given the actual route of the damn thing (it follows the railway line from Haymarket out to the West end of Carrick Knowe golf course I think).

 

Agree in principle though, it isn't exactly on Tynecastle's doorstep for fans, although as The Boo says Hearts, if the construction is simply a redesigned main stand, shouldn't have to cough up a penny (there again neither should we, the council tax payers, we didn't ask for this fecking waste of money (the tram line from hell to nowhere) to be constructed).

[Nucky Thompson]

I bet the tyni high skool has never contributed to the tram stop, that's a new build, but of course is cooncil project, as usual one law for them and another for us.

Another thing shirley the tram stops should be part of the original costing not an after thought con', designed to screw money out of unsuspecting projects.[/font]

Tynie School isn't a private development.

[Coco]

I hope that Council Tax payers in Edinburgh are ready to cough up for the tram line.

 

It is now very likely that each Council Tax payer in Edinburgh will have to hand over a whole extra year's Council Tax to pay for this tram line.

[davemclaren]

I hope that Council Tax payers in Edinburgh are ready to cough up for the tram line.

 

It is now very likely that each Council Tax payer in Edinburgh will have to hand over a whole extra year's Council Tax to pay for this tram line.

 

And quite right too. The Edinburgh City Council electorate voted in local representatives who supported the tram so they have a clear responsibility for it.

[portobellojambo1]

And quite right too. The Edinburgh City Council electorate voted in local representatives who supported the tram so they have a clear responsibility for it.

 

I always thought the idea of politicians, at whatever level elected, was to do what those that elected them decided, not what they themselves decided.

 

If they, i.e. these local representative, want a one track poof mobile, train set to whack over let them pay for it themselves.

[davemclaren]

I always thought the idea of politicians, at whatever level elected, was to do what those that elected them decided, not what they themselves decided.

 

If they, i.e. these local representative, want a one track poof mobile, train set to **** over let them pay for it themselves.

 

 

They must believe they are representing their constituents. Of course, you can always vote them out at the next election but I would think most will be back. That in itself is an endorsement of what they did in their previous term. That's representative democracy for you.

[portobellojambo1]

They must believe they are representing their constituents. Of course, you can always vote them out at the next election but I would think most will be back. That in itself is an endorsement of what they did in their previous term. That's representative democracy for you.

 

I am guessing you are making these comments in a wind up sort of manner.

 

Only someone who isn't having to pay for this feckin monstrous waste of time, space, energy and money/resources would have a half decent word to say about it. Every representative who voted in favour of it should be taken away somewhere out of the way, get their balls cut off, shot through the head, petrol poured over them and barbecued (not necessarily in that order). And if anyone has any plastic explosives handy a small amount could be pushed up these representatives erses and they could be forced to run around until it detonates, prior to any othe above things which they equally deserve.

[davemclaren]

I am guessing you are making these comments in a wind up sort of manner.

 

Only someone who isn't having to pay for this feckin monstrous waste of time, space, energy and money/resources would have a half decent word to say about it. Every representative who voted in favour of it should be taken away somewhere out of the way, get their balls cut off, shot through the head, petrol poured over them and barbecued (not necessarily in that order). And if anyone has any plastic explosives handy a small amount could be pushed up these representatives erses and they could be forced to run around until it detonates, prior to any othe above things which they equally deserve.

 

 

It is a sort of wind up...BUT the reality is that if the citizens of Edinburgh were so outraged with the Tram situation they could vote them out. I doubt very much they will.

[jamboinglasgow]

I am guessing you are making these comments in a wind up sort of manner.

 

Only someone who isn't having to pay for this feckin monstrous waste of time, space, energy and money/resources would have a half decent word to say about it. Every representative who voted in favour of it should be taken away somewhere out of the way, get their balls cut off, shot through the head, petrol poured over them and barbecued (not necessarily in that order). And if anyone has any plastic explosives handy a small amount could be pushed up these representatives erses and they could be forced to run around until it detonates, prior to any othe above things which they equally deserve.

 

wow. This is why I dont normally post on threads about the trams as people are so over the top with their anger of it that you think it was holding their children hostage.

[Neon]

wow. This is why I dont normally post on threads about the trams as people are so over the top with their anger of it that you think it was holding their children hostage.

I agree with your sentiments Jamboinglasgow - I no longer stay in Edinburgh so cant comment on what effect it is having on the populous in terms of tax.

 

Portobello noticed you posted the above post rather late so can only imagine you have had a few shandys - I usually find your posts most agreable and

believe you have the respect of 99% of the board - the above post seemed to be made in a fit of rage... which we very rarely see from you.

 

Maybe some1 can enlighten me to why we are seeing such a view from the locals.

 

Couple of points - the scottish parliament cost the tax payers ?414.4m - from an originally projected figure of 10-14 million, cant remember to much outcry on these boards when this was in the pipeline.

 

I havent looked at the route of the tram line but I think it would be a likely tourist trap.

We had trams around 1902 in Edinburgh so again on the tourist theme wouldnt this restore some of Edinburghs character?

 

 

EDIT* Just to add a link which I found interesting on the history of the tram in edinburgh. http://www.scottishtransport.org/edin_trams-140_yrs - seems the horse drawn trams declined in 1902 - so if hubs think they will ever win the cup again they will need to petition for this to me reintroduced.

[Coco]

 

Maybe some1 can enlighten me to why we are seeing such a view from the locals.

 

Couple of points - the scottish parliament cost the tax payers ?414.4m - from an originally projected figure of 10-14 million, cant remember to much outcry on these boards when this was in the pipeline.

 

I havent looked at the route of the tram line but I think it would be a likely tourist trap.

We had trams around 1902 in Edinburgh so again on the tourist theme wouldnt this restore some of Edinburghs character?

 

 

1) The tram line waste started years ago with the laughable 'guided busway' at Stenhouse. It has been a period where there has been obvious overspending, waste, congestion creation, impedence of business and locals and a dodgy dossier 'business case'. That 'business case' suggests that local pollution will be reduced by the equivalent of 1% (but takes no account of the pollution etc in the period when built) and suggests that because there will not be another RBS Gogarburn sized development there, that there will not be a huge number of new flats built at Leith and that the Airport's growth will peak soon - the tram line will make tens of millions of pounds of operating losses each year. It is a clear case of politician vanity and squander.

 

2) There was disgust on the board and elsewhere when the politicians under Dewar etc. were squandering all that cash on the hideous Parliament building. It is what Scottish politicians are best at - squandering other people's money.

 

3) The tram line is likely to run from near the Airport to Haymarket if the money runs that far. At a cost of over ?500m to Scotland's taxpayers, a cost of over ?100m and likely ?200m to Edinburgh's Council Taxpayers and operating losses of tens of millions each year - it is more of a black hole than a tourist trap.

[portobellojambo1]

1) The tram line waste started years ago with the laughable 'guided busway' at Stenhouse. It has been a period where there has been obvious overspending, waste, congestion creation, impedence of business and locals and a dodgy dossier 'business case'. That 'business case' suggests that local pollution will be reduced by the equivalent of 1% (but takes no account of the pollution etc in the period when built) and suggests that because there will not be another RBS Gogarburn sized development there, that there will not be a huge number of new flats built at Leith and that the Airport's growth will peak soon - the tram line will make tens of millions of pounds of operating losses each year. It is a clear case of politician vanity and squander.

 

2) There was disgust on the board and elsewhere when the politicians under Dewar etc. were squandering all that cash on the hideous Parliament building. It is what Scottish politicians are best at - squandering other people's money.

 

3) The tram line is likely to run from near the Airport to Haymarket if the money runs that far. At a cost of over ?500m to Scotland's taxpayers, a cost of over ?100m and likely ?200m to Edinburgh's Council Taxpayers and operating losses of tens of millions each year - it is more of a black hole than a tourist trap.

 

Cheers Coco, saves me responding directly to neonjambo, other than to say I was perfectly sober when I posted last night. I don't drink during the week, I'd normally be working today and I don't drink if I have work the next day (didn't change my routine last night), other than football matches played on a Sunday, where I'll limit myself to a couple. I have to deal every day with high level complaints at work, I need to have a clear head from the moment my bum is in my seat at work.

 

 

As you say Coco over ?500 million wasted on the Scottish Parliament building, a building we didn't need, or want, and in excess of ?500 million being wasted on a one line train set the people of Edinburgh neither want or need. During the latter monstrosity all citizens have had to put up with chaos both on and off the roads resulting from closures to roads/businesses, diversions, etc., and at the end of it all will probably lose the two best bus services in Edinburgh, the 22 and 26 (any bus that runs anywhere near where the train set is due to run (if the useless feckers ever finish it) will be withdrawn or routed far away from it, to ensure people have to use this tram, whether they want to or not).

 

That is in excess of ?1 billion gone down the plughole, which competent people could have used to benefit a much wider percentage of the population

[jambojim52]

It is a sort of wind up...BUT the reality is that if the citizens of Edinburgh were so outraged with the Tram situation they could vote them out. I doubt very much they will.

 

No wind up! That's the problem, many vote along party lines Ie: My family voted for "x" and I have all my life so that's who I will be voting for! The SNP wanted the trams stopped, but the other parties managed to win enough seats by the above system, the SNP were out voted!

I think there will be many who don't want the trams, and will change their vote, but there will also be those who will continue along the party line!

[Shanks]

I hate the ******* trams

[john brownlee]

Tynie School isn't a private development.

 

 

Wrong, part funded PPI. Anyway that shouldn't matter its a new build and why should the cooncil be exempt, it is after all their baby. Very few people wanted it, its just a glory hunting project for cooncillers to have their names in the history books.

It stank from day one and it still stinks, they are even using the argument that small business' have had to pay through disruptions so big business' should pay as well as they did not have the inconveniences or disruptions of the many small business' throughout the route. You couldn't make it up. I was on a bus going to the game last week. Just observing the tracks along Princes street and you could not believe the repairs that have already been carried out on this crumbling disaster. That's before even one tram has used the tracks.Whats it going to be like when these heavy dinosaur's start trundling along these jerry built lines. I believe the coonciller in charge of Edinburgh transport is a hobo says it all really.

[mundojambo]

http://www.edinburghtrams.com/index.php/route_map/

 

tram stop at roseburn st, just at murrayfield

 

on derby day it will be full of hibees...

[davemclaren]

http://www.edinburghtrams.com/index.php/route_map/

 

tram stop at roseburn st, just at murrayfield

 

on derby day it will be full of hibees...

 

 

The stop will be at the National Car Rental site...wherever that is.

[Tommy Wiseau]

Interesting how all the people on this thread defending the tram (singular) are those who aren't living here. Kind of tells you all you need to know, doesn't it?

[jambojim52]

http://www.edinburghtrams.com/index.php/route_map/

 

tram stop at roseburn st, just at murrayfield

 

on derby day it will be full of hibees...

 

 

Ok not the other side of Muddyfield, but jees, it's the other side of the railway and west approach road. How they can claim money from Hearts for this stop is ridiculous!

[john brownlee]

Interesting how all the people on this thread defending the tram (singular) are those who aren't living here. Kind of tells you all you need to know, doesn't it?

Well Thommo I live outside Edinburgh but still have a point of view and that is like most schemes sponsored by politicians they are a waste of money, with the trams being no exception. The singular defender is probable a red card carrying socialist who thinks the sun shines out of his labour toadies eckie and nothing to do with him/her living outside Edinburgh

[Tommy Wiseau]

Well Thommo I live outside Edinburgh but still have a point of view and that is like most schemes sponsored by politicians they are a waste of money, with the trams being no exception. The singular defender is probable a red card carrying socialist who thinks the sun shines out of his labour toadies eckie and nothing to do with him/her living outside Edinburgh

 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to generalise - just making the point that the people I've seen defending the tram (singular) here and elsewhere always happen to be resident outside of the city. I'm sure there are people living in Edinburgh who think it's a great idea; I just haven't come across any. Of course, many people who don't live in the city have the same opinion as the majority - that this is a spectacular waste of money that the people of Edinburgh and Scotland will be paying for in years to come.

[davemclaren]

Sorry, I didn't mean to generalise - just making the point that the people I've seen defending the tram (singular) here and elsewhere always happen to be resident outside of the city. I'm sure there are people living in Edinburgh who think it's a great idea; I just haven't come across any. Of course, many people who don't live in the city have the same opinion as the majority - that this is a spectacular waste of money that the people of Edinburgh and Scotland will be paying for in years to come.

 

 

We'll see when they get the chance to vote the tram supporting councilors out.

[jamboinglasgow]

Interesting how all the people on this thread defending the tram (singular) are those who aren't living here. Kind of tells you all you need to know, doesn't it?

 

Excuse me, despite my username I am currently residing in Edinburgh, my work is right in the middle of the tramworks, my house is quite close to the tramworks so your argument is flawed in that respect that I only support it as I dont live here. I just can see past the short-term pain for the long term benefits. Yes there has been some mishandling in some of the construction, some of that is TIE's blame, some of it shoddy companies including ultilty companies who in the past just shove new pipes and cables into the ground and not bother to write down where exactly they are. However what is being built is a 14 miles of track cutting across a city on both roads and off roads, a very complex and difficult thing to carry out, yes there will be problems on the way, in every project there is. However once finished you will have a modern transport system which will have formed a spine through Edinburgh, which allows future expansion and the ability to bring in a combined transport system to Edinburgh which helps the city to grow. Living in Glasgow showed me the difference between the two cities in terms of transport.

 

Ok not the other side of Muddyfield, but jees, it's the other side of the railway and west approach road. How they can claim money from Hearts for this stop is ridiculous!

 

Actually the location is relativly close to Tynecastle. Yes its not right outside Tynecastle but its a 5 min walk either side to get to Tynecastle, in terms of moving people before and after a game it can make a big difference. However I do think the council are being a bit foolish if they expect companies to pay as much as they demand just to allow planning permission to go ahead.

[Tommy Wiseau]

We'll see when they get the chance to vote the tram supporting councilors out.

 

This wind-up merchant persona doesn't suit you, Dave, but I'll humour you.

 

Edinburgh Council is currently made up of a coalition of Lib Dems and SNP. Now I'm no expert (actually, I am ), but was it not a Labour Council that passed the tram bill initially? While the Lib Dems have subsequently voted to retain the project, both in Council and Parliamentary ballots, it is somewhat difficult to vote out one set of "tram supporting councillors" when the alternative parties supported them as well - and in the case of Labour, were even more complicit in the scheme. To ask for an SNP whitewash on the basis of purely the tram is both unrealistic in a PR election, and undesirable for democracy in any case.

[Tommy Wiseau]

Excuse me, despite my username I am currently residing in Edinburgh, my work is right in the middle of the tramworks, my house is quite close to the tramworks so your argument is flawed in that respect that I only support it as I dont live here. I just can see past the short-term pain for the long term benefits. Yes there has been some mishandling in some of the construction, some of that is TIE's blame, some of it shoddy companies including ultilty companies who in the past just shove new pipes and cables into the ground and not bother to write down where exactly they are. However what is being built is a 14 miles of track cutting across a city on both roads and off roads, a very complex and difficult thing to carry out, yes there will be problems on the way, in every project there is. However once finished you will have a modern transport system which will have formed a spine through Edinburgh, which allows future expansion and the ability to bring in a combined transport system to Edinburgh which helps the city to grow. Living in Glasgow showed me the difference between the two cities in terms of transport.

 

 

 

Fair do's. You can of course, see where I got the misconception.

 

I'll have to call you up on your use of the phrase "modern transport system". One tram line does not constitute a "system" and in all likelihood the tram will not even be particularly modern by the time the project is finished to whatever stage they can make the money stretch.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that a tram network/system is a bad thing in itself; it's just THIS one that is a pile of horse jobbies. I was in Melbourne recently and it was fantastic - a completely integrated tram network, stretching out to every corner of the city with a multitude of lines and routes. Edinburgh's tram will be worlds away from that, and instead will be a glorified single bus route. For ?500+ million (not including the inevitable and expected huge over-runs), allied to the cost to businesses (I know of companies that have gone out of business directly as a result of tram works impacting on their trade, and a Times article I read recently says that businesses affected by the tram works lost an average of about ?24,000 each over a 3 week spell in 2008 Link to article) and the long-term inconvenience and disruption to the people of the city, that's simply not worth it.

[davemclaren]

This wind-up merchant persona doesn't suit you, Dave, but I'll humour you.

 

Edinburgh Council is currently made up of a coalition of Lib Dems and SNP. Now I'm no expert (actually, I am ), but was it not a Labour Council that passed the tram bill initially? While the Lib Dems have subsequently voted to retain the project, both in Council and Parliamentary ballots, it is somewhat difficult to vote out one set of "tram supporting councillors" when the alternative parties supported them as well - and in the case of Labour, were even more complicit in the scheme. To ask for an SNP whitewash on the basis of purely the tram is both unrealistic in a PR election, and undesirable for democracy in any case.

 

I'm sure there will be plenty of anti-tram candidates standing. However, if people vote for candidates that are pro-tram then I'm afraid you get what you deserve.

 

This isn't a wind up by the way.

[davemclaren]

Fair do's. You can of course, see where I got the misconception.

 

I'll have to call you up on your use of the phrase "modern transport system". One tram line does not constitute a "system" and in all likelihood the tram will not even be particularly modern by the time the project is finished to whatever stage they can make the money stretch.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that a tram network/system is a bad thing in itself; it's just THIS one that is a pile of horse jobbies. I was in Melbourne recently and it was fantastic - a completely integrated tram network, stretching out to every corner of the city with a multitude of lines and routes. Edinburgh's tram will be worlds away from that, and instead will be a glorified single bus route. For ?500+ million (not including the inevitable and expected huge over-runs), allied to the cost to businesses (I know of companies that have gone out of business directly as a result of tram works impacting on their trade, and a Times article I read recently says that businesses affected by the tram works lost an average of about ?24,000 each over a 3 week spell in 2008 Link to article) and the long-term inconvenience and disruption to the people of the city, that's simply not worth it.

 

 

Manchester's tram system was originally one line from Altrincham to Bury mostly built over existing rail lines that were converted, apart from the street running portion through the city centre. One line can be a system. On the modernity point I think a 2 or 3 year delay isn't going to affect that much.

 

It will be judged when it is built but once the infrastructure is in place then further extensions will be cheaper per mile than this original one. I do agree that, like a lot of infrastructure porjects in this country, it hasn't been managed very well.

 

And back on topic, I believe people will use it to get to Tynecastle quicker than by bus.

[jambojim52]

Excuse me, despite my username I am currently residing in Edinburgh, my work is right in the middle of the tramworks, my house is quite close to the tramworks so your argument is flawed in that respect that I only support it as I dont live here. I just can see past the short-term pain for the long term benefits. Yes there has been some mishandling in some of the construction, some of that is TIE's blame, some of it shoddy companies including ultilty companies who in the past just shove new pipes and cables into the ground and not bother to write down where exactly they are. However what is being built is a 14 miles of track cutting across a city on both roads and off roads, a very complex and difficult thing to carry out, yes there will be problems on the way, in every project there is. However once finished you will have a modern transport system which will have formed a spine through Edinburgh, which allows future expansion and the ability to bring in a combined transport system to Edinburgh which helps the city to grow. Living in Glasgow showed me the difference between the two cities in terms of transport.

 

 

 

Actually the location is relativly close to Tynecastle. Yes its not right outside Tynecastle but its a 5 min walk either side to get to Tynecastle, in terms of moving people before and after a game it can make a big difference. However I do think the council are being a bit foolish if they expect companies to pay as much as they demand just to allow planning permission to go ahead.

 

 

That's just the point there won't be long term benefits! The tram business case was wrongly presented as having a large number of people living on the waterfront. This development crashed along with the economy.They are wasting all this money to replace 17 buses! Not 17 routes just the one No22 route! They also claim it will run to the airport. Now this is wrong! The terminal will be passed the coach and taxi park, rather a long walk with luggage! In the mean time they are to run buses from the airport to the tram terminal at Gogar which means people will board a bus at the airport,change onto a tram, change again to a bus or taxi, to take them to their hotel! All this can be done with ONE airport bus! All these problems before we even consider what will happen with a breakdown or accident!

[Tommy Wiseau]

I'm sure there will be plenty of anti-tram candidates standing. However, if people vote for candidates that are pro-tram then I'm afraid you get what you deserve.

 

This isn't a wind up by the way.

 

 

And if your political views do not support any of the SNP's policies, bar their opposition to the tram? What then?

 

After all, they are the only party to oppose the tram.

[davemclaren]

And if your political views do not support any of the SNP's policies, bar their opposition to the tram? What then?

 

After all, they are the only party to oppose the tram.

 

 

I suppose it's then a question of your priorities.