Michael Jackson is dead ( edited title )

[Guest juvehearts]

what 25 hit singles

sold over 750 MILLION records worldwide

 

the biggest selling album of all time & will never be overtaken of thriller. Over 270 million albums sold worldwide

 

18 grammys ffs

enducted TWICE into the music hall of fame

with his solo career & his time with the jackson 5

 

Michael Jackson's musical career will never EVER be overtaken & anyone that didnt like his music is not human.

 

He was a pioneer, he was black & people forget this, his infulance in mainstreem society is overshaddowed by his allagations of child molostation is justified but his musical career should be primary.

 

he will always be in my eyes the king of pop & a legend

 

 

end of.

 

juve

[Guest juvehearts]

i know i was the last to post & i dont care here is a list off all his musical achivements in his 50 yrs on this plannet

 

what 25 hit singles

sold over 750 MILLION records worldwide

 

the biggest selling album of all time & will never be overtaken of thriller 25 million albums sold worldwide

 

his career to date.......

 

In 1984

8 Grammy Awards, a record breaking 8 Grammy Awards → the most won by an artist in one year.

* Album Of The Year → Thriller

* Record Of The Year → Beat It

* Best Male Pop Performance → Thriller

* Producer Of The Year (with Quincy Jones) → Thriller

* Best Male Rock Vocal Performance → Beat It

* Best Male R&B Vocal Performance → Billie Jean

* Best New R&B Song → Billie Jean

* Best Recording For Children → E.T. The Extra Terrestrial Album (narration by Michael Jackson) on February the 28th.

 

number 1 in the pop, R&B & topped the US Billboard chart for 38 weeks

 

1985

Another 2 Grammy Awards

Best Home Video → The Making Of Thriller

 

1986

Oh Look Another 2 Grammy Award

* Record Of The Year → We Are the World

* Song Of The Year → We Are the World

* Best Pop Performance By Duo Or Group → We Are the World

* Best Music Video Short Form

 

1990

2 Grammy Awards

* Best Video → Leave Me Alone

 

1993

2 Grammy Awards

* Living Legend Award

 

1996

2 Grammy Awards (yeah 18 now)

* Best Music Video (short form)→ Scream

 

2008

enducted into the hall of fame twice for 2 albums (thats twice)

* Thriller

* Off The Wall

 

Total: 18 Grammy Awards

 

 

I dont care how you see him as a person, his mucical career shaped millions upon millions of people to be the way they are today.

 

he will always be a legend & no-one will ever forget what his musical tallent brought to us all.

 

RIP we love you Michael

[boabyarsebiscuit]

i know i was the last to post & i dont care here is a list off all his musical achivements in his 50 yrs on this plannet

 

what 25 hit singles

sold over 750 MILLION records worldwide

 

the biggest selling album of all time & will never be overtaken of thriller 25 million albums sold worldwide

 

his career to date.......

 

In 1984

8 Grammy Awards, a record breaking 8 Grammy Awards → the most won by an artist in one year.

* Album Of The Year → Thriller

* Record Of The Year → Beat It

* Best Male Pop Performance → Thriller

* Producer Of The Year (with Quincy Jones) → Thriller

* Best Male Rock Vocal Performance → Beat It

* Best Male R&B Vocal Performance → Billie Jean

* Best New R&B Song → Billie Jean

* Best Recording For Children → E.T. The Extra Terrestrial Album (narration by Michael Jackson) on February the 28th.

 

number 1 in the pop, R&B & topped the US Billboard chart for 38 weeks

 

1985

Another 2 Grammy Awards

Best Home Video → The Making Of Thriller

 

1986

Oh Look Another 2 Grammy Award

* Record Of The Year → We Are the World

* Song Of The Year → We Are the World

* Best Pop Performance By Duo Or Group → We Are the World

* Best Music Video Short Form

 

1990

2 Grammy Awards

* Best Video → Leave Me Alone

 

1993

2 Grammy Awards

* Living Legend Award

 

1996

2 Grammy Awards (yeah 18 now)

* Best Music Video (short form)→ Scream

 

2008

enducted into the hall of fame twice for 2 albums (thats twice)

* Thriller

* Off The Wall

 

Total: 18 Grammy Awards

 

 

I dont care how you see him as a person, his mucical career shaped millions upon millions of people to be the way they are today.

 

he will always be a legend & no-one will ever forget what his musical tallent brought to us all.

 

RIP we love you Michael

READ MY LIPS.

 

Michael Jackson. Pish.

 

Total jobbies.

 

Rubbish.

 

Music for people who don't like music.

[Jimmy McNulty]

The Kearndog's gotta be gutted.

 

Another 12 pages if he adds to this thread

[Guest juvehearts]

READ MY LIPS.

 

Michael Jackson. Pish.

 

Total jobbies.

 

Rubbish.

 

Music for people who don't like music.

 

kannae read your lips coz this an internet forum

 

and if i read your lips i'd be listening to a killers song

[jamboscott]

i know i was the last to post & i dont care here is a list off all his musical achivements in his 50 yrs on this plannet

 

what 25 hit singles

sold over 750 MILLION records worldwide

 

the biggest selling album of all time & will never be overtaken of thriller 25 million albums sold worldwide

 

his career to date.......

 

In 1984

8 Grammy Awards, a record breaking 8 Grammy Awards → the most won by an artist in one year.

* Album Of The Year → Thriller

* Record Of The Year → Beat It

* Best Male Pop Performance → Thriller

* Producer Of The Year (with Quincy Jones) → Thriller

* Best Male Rock Vocal Performance → Beat It

* Best Male R&B Vocal Performance → Billie Jean

* Best New R&B Song → Billie Jean

* Best Recording For Children → E.T. The Extra Terrestrial Album (narration by Michael Jackson) on February the 28th.

 

number 1 in the pop, R&B & topped the US Billboard chart for 38 weeks

 

1985

Another 2 Grammy Awards

Best Home Video → The Making Of Thriller

 

1986

Oh Look Another 2 Grammy Award

* Record Of The Year → We Are the World

* Song Of The Year → We Are the World

* Best Pop Performance By Duo Or Group → We Are the World

* Best Music Video Short Form

 

1990

2 Grammy Awards

* Best Video → Leave Me Alone

 

1993

2 Grammy Awards

* Living Legend Award

 

1996

2 Grammy Awards (yeah 18 now)

* Best Music Video (short form)→ Scream

 

2008

enducted into the hall of fame twice for 2 albums (thats twice)

* Thriller

* Off The Wall

 

Total: 18 Grammy Awards

 

 

I dont care how you see him as a person, his mucical career shaped millions upon millions of people to be the way they are today.

 

he will always be a legend & no-one will ever forget what his musical tallent brought to us all.

 

RIP we love you Michael

 

agreed, last of the true superstars

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

i know i was the last to post & i dont care here is a list off all his musical achivements in his 50 yrs on this plannet

 

what 25 hit singles

sold over 750 MILLION records worldwide

 

the biggest selling album of all time & will never be overtaken of thriller 25 million albums sold worldwide

 

his career to date.......

 

In 1984

8 Grammy Awards, a record breaking 8 Grammy Awards → the most won by an artist in one year.

* Album Of The Year → Thriller

* Record Of The Year → Beat It

* Best Male Pop Performance → Thriller

* Producer Of The Year (with Quincy Jones) → Thriller

* Best Male Rock Vocal Performance → Beat It

* Best Male R&B Vocal Performance → Billie Jean

* Best New R&B Song → Billie Jean

* Best Recording For Children → E.T. The Extra Terrestrial Album (narration by Michael Jackson) on February the 28th.

 

number 1 in the pop, R&B & topped the US Billboard chart for 38 weeks

 

1985

Another 2 Grammy Awards

Best Home Video → The Making Of Thriller

 

1986

Oh Look Another 2 Grammy Award

* Record Of The Year → We Are the World

* Song Of The Year → We Are the World

* Best Pop Performance By Duo Or Group → We Are the World

* Best Music Video Short Form

 

1990

2 Grammy Awards

* Best Video → Leave Me Alone

 

1993

2 Grammy Awards

* Living Legend Award

 

1996

2 Grammy Awards (yeah 18 now)

* Best Music Video (short form)→ Scream

 

2008

enducted into the hall of fame twice for 2 albums (thats twice)

* Thriller

* Off The Wall

 

Total: 18 Grammy Awards

 

 

I dont care how you see him as a person, his mucical career shaped millions upon millions of people to be the way they are today.

 

he will always be a legend & no-one will ever forget what his musical tallent brought to us all.

 

RIP we love you Michael

 

Please elaborate on this piece of garbage.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Mmm... if the internet and 24/7 media had existed when Elvis died, I'm sure there'd have been every bit as much fuss as there is about Jacko now. It was a huge deal at the time anyway - as was the case when John Lennon was murdered.

 

And before you cry heresy at them even being compared: I don't think Michael Jackson's music was a patch on Elvis'. But I struggle to see who else was the Elvis of his generation - nor anyone else who sold anything like as many records, or who redefined not so much music, but what being an artist meant.

 

There's no such thing as an "Elvis of his generation". It's like the stupid comparison rolled out at Man Utd every few years of the "new George Best". And as for the internet and 24/7 media, I actually think that's irrelevant. The cliches rolling out of "you will remember where you were when he died". Sorry? It's hardly 9/11, JFK etc.

 

As I said above, he was groundbreaking in terms of choreography and videography. Musically? No.

[shaun.lawson]

There's no such thing as an "Elvis of his generation". It's like the stupid comparison rolled out at Man Utd every few years of the "new George Best". And as for the internet and 24/7 media, I actually think that's irrelevant. The cliches rolling out of "you will remember where you were when he died". Sorry? It's hardly 9/11, JFK etc.

 

As I said above, he was groundbreaking in terms of choreography and videography. Musically? No.

 

That is a cliche, I agree. 9/11 was the JFK moment for my generation; this hardly is. I agree with your last para too. But it's still your subjective opinion: everyone has a subjective opinion when it comes to music. His enduring popularity despite everything else that's been discussed at length on this thread is astonishing, and it strikes me as pretty po faced to declare "I thought he was pish - so what's the big fuss about?"

 

If Madonna died prematurely, there'd no doubt be a similar fuss made too - albeit once again, she hardly compares to Elvis or the Beatles.

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun - thank you. You have really cheered me up (on a bad night, 3 errors in one inning, still the Isles drafted Tavares).

 

You are a FUNNY guy.

 

What does the wiki say on "pseudo intellectuals"?

 

God knows. Only the pseudo bit would be accurate in my case: when I started here, I was scared I'd fail, because I thought a PhD would demand I became an intellecthoowall. Thankfully, I was wrong about that.

[japanjambo]

What's the difference between Alex Ferguson and Michael Jackson?

 

Michael Jackson paid a plastic surgeon to **** his nose up.

 

HAHAHA!!

[badly drawn boy]

Of course they are. The trouble is that their conclusions run contrary to what the justice system and many years of the police searching for evidence concluded - and that the judgement that follows their conclusions is itself astoundingly arrogant, in that they think they know better than a court of law.

 

On this forum, accusations have often been made against the owner of our football club. Those making such accusations are regularly ridiculed or derided - because without evidence, let alone proof, how can they be taken seriously? Much the same applies here. Innocent until prov-en guilty applies in all civilized societies across the world, and thank heavens it does - otherwise, someone can be tried and convicted by the court of public opinion, which then rushes to judgment and demands they "rot in hell" when they may very well have been guilty of nothing whatsoever.

 

Shaun people will trust their own instinct/judgment on any given situation , You cant believe that in every case that moves to a court of law , the final decision is always the correct one , history will show endless cases where there has been wrongful convictions and Visa versa

 

How many times do we read about serial sex offenders and murderers being convicted to find a trail of previous crimes in which they escaped prosecution because of lack of evidence or the wrong judgment been made or the investigators missing vital evidence

 

You say he may have been guilty of nothing , and thats about right -we don't know .But some who are convinced of his guilt have an opinion as valid as any other

 

Your condemnation of those who had made that judgment is bizarre , the worst possible interpretation of someones conduct must always be drawn ?( is that what you did with a couple of well known sporting personalities some months back , sullied their names because of a couple of nothing incidents

 

Always desperate to believe the worst , always eager to lap up the gossip , live in fear and danger , dancing on graves -calm yourself , daft generalizing patronizing comments

[shaun.lawson]

You seem to like to quote Wikipedia, so how do you explain this direct quote...

 

"On January 1, 1994, Jackson settled a civil suit out of court with the Chandler family and their legal team for $22 million. Jordan Chandler refused to testify in the criminal proceedings, the state closed its criminal investigation citing lack of evidence, Jackson was not charged with a crime."

 

Basically, "Jacko" paid off his victim to ensure they never testified against him, and as a result the prosecution did not have enough evidence to complete their case.

 

Can you seriously give ONE good reason why anyone would pay off someone trying to blackmail them rather than have the truth come out in court?. ( I have already outlined reasons why a parent might take the "easy option" of accepting a cash settlement rather than make their abused child suffer further in court!) He claims that he had "had enough" and wanted to end the claims, so took the easy option of the payoff, yet 8 years later, he fought the allegations in court and won...Why not take the "easy option" and pay off his "blackmailer" again?

 

I will start my closing sentence by saying there is no disputing his undoubted musical talent, but that can't cover up his very major flaws. At the very least, "Jacko" was a ****ed up individual, who had a very unnatural relationship with children that was bordering on the paedophilic. I can't say I am gonna shed any tears for him leaving the world. I don't know enough about his upbringing etc, but surely no matter how tough that was, you can not comprehend his behaviour and actions. In cases like this where I have no sympathy for the deceased, I would normally show some remorse for his children, but I honestly feel his kids will live a better life without him! That is one of the most difficult sentences I will probably ever type, but he was so messed up, as shown by his past behaviour and dangling a baby over a balcony, that I seriously believe its true!

 

1. I agree. He was extremely weird, and plainly very unwell, as the baby dangling episode in front of the world's cameras illustrated. But yes, I can comprehend his behaviour, and have explained my theory of it much earlier in the thread. Weird does not equal paedo.

 

2. NYC-Hearts already dealt with this - in posts 272, 274 and 275. The threshold for 'guilt' in civil cases is far lower; and to avoid disastrous publicity, many, many celebrities settle beforehand, even if they've done nothing wrong at all. The events you describe actually vindicate NYC's argument: settled a civil suit out of court, investigation closed due to lack of evidence... but subsequently charged some years later, prosecuted by the authorities - and still acquitted.

 

Can you explain how he came to be acquitted? Surely it couldn't be that he was innocent of the charges made, could it?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1. I agree. He was extremely weird, and plainly very unwell, as the baby dangling episode in front of the world's cameras illustrated. But yes, I can comprehend his behaviour, and have explained my theory of it much earlier in the thread. Weird does not equal paedo.

 

2. NYC-Hearts already dealt with this - in posts 272, 274 and 275. The threshold for 'guilt' in civil cases is far lower; and to avoid disastrous publicity, many, many celebrities settle beforehand, even if they've done nothing wrong at all. The events you describe actually vindicate NYC's argument: settled a civil suit out of court, investigation closed due to lack of evidence... but subsequently charged some years later, prosecuted by the authorities - and still acquitted.

 

Can you explain how he came to be acquitted? Surely it couldn't be that he was innocent of the charges made, could it?

 

Shaun, if the legal system is the be all and end all, did you believe that the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six convictions were fair and that there were no grounds for appeal whatsoever?

 

Jackson was acquitted because the burden of proof in a criminal case failed to remove "reasonable doubt". Fair enough. However, it is the same system that means convictions in rape cases are obtained in 4% of trials (I don't have the child abuse convictions to hand but the nature of the cases are similar).

 

With this in mind I'm not surprised he was acquitted in the criminal trial.

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun people will trust their own instinct/judgment on any given situation , You cant believe that in every case that moves to a court of law , the final decision is always the correct one , history will show endless cases where there has been wrongful convictions and Visa versa

 

How many times do we read about serial sex offenders and murderers being convicted to find a trail of previous crimes in which they escaped prosecution because of lack of evidence or the wrong judgment been made or the investigators missing vital evidence

 

You say he may have been guilty of nothing , and thats about right -we don't know .But some who are convinced of his guilt have an opinion as valid as any other

 

Your condemnation of those who had made that judgment is bizarre , the worst possible interpretation of someones conduct must always be drawn ?( is that what you did with a couple of well known sporting personalities some months back , sullied their names because of a couple of nothing incidents

 

Always desperate to believe the worst , always eager to lap up the gossip , live in fear and danger , dancing on graves -calm yourself , daft generalizing patronizing comments

 

Hang on. Who do you mean? That cringe inducing Souness thread - which I regretted about 6.8 seconds after posting - or something else?

 

On your final point: I was angry on Thursday night. It wasn't even Jackson per se: more thread after thread on here over a period of time in which, yes, the most negative interpretation of someone's conduct did always seem to be drawn, followed by condemnation from the hang 'em high mob. Everyone is entitled to their opinion: I was just depressed by the poverty of spirit which seemed to accompany or inform it in all too many cases.

 

And as a final aside: condemnation of someone literally moments after their death is a bit beyond me too. Isn't a bit of peace and quiet called for on such occasions; or am I just hopelessly old fashioned in that? Not that I'd have the brass neck to claim I've been peaceful or quiet on this thread - but I was shocked at the viciousness of some of the comments towards a dead man never convicted of anything.

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun, if the legal system is the be all and end all, did you believe that the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six convictions were fair and that there were no grounds for appeal whatsoever?

 

Jackson was acquitted because the burden of proof in a criminal case failed to remove "reasonable doubt". Fair enough. However, it is the same system that means convictions in rape cases are obtained in 4% of trials (I don't have the child abuse convictions to hand but the nature of the cases are similar).

 

With this in mind I'm not surprised he was acquitted in the criminal trial.

 

The legal system isn't the be-all and end-all, no. Plenty of people have been wrongly convicted, imprisoned, and in the past, hanged; some no doubt have got off when they were guilty too. I wasn't around at the time of the Guildford Four or Birmingham Six' conviction; I was when the Tottenham Three were though, and I knew they were innocent, as did many others.

 

I don't know what we can do about rape cases. The number of convictions, and below that, prosecutions brought in the first place are shockingly low - but the burden of proof has to remain as it is and has been for centuries. If it was lower, you'd probably just get more people being framed by a police and prosecution service desperate to satisfy political and public pressure for justice.

 

In the US, there's something seriously wrong with the burden of proof not being the same in civil and criminal cases, because of the doubt and muddied water it creates. All we can do as a public is accept it when someone is acquitted: if we don't, anarchy results, and an inordinate number of completely innocent people would have to suffer suspicion and being tainted by association for the rest of their lives.

[Dazo]

Can you explain how he came to be acquitted? Surely it couldn't be that he was innocent of the charges made, could it?

 

If the victim refused to testify then we have to assume the chances of a conviction are zero. The jury would have to rely on evidence of people who were not present. I think with the type of lawyers he could afford they would be able to raise some doubt in the evidence of those not present.

[shaun.lawson]

If the victim refused to testify then we have to assume the chances of a conviction are zero. The jury would have to rely on evidence of people who were not present. I think with the type of lawyers he could afford they would be able to raise some doubt in the evidence of those not present.

 

In that case, why bother with an expensive prosecution in the first place? They must've had serious testimony in order to bring one, if you see what I mean?

 

The story of the trial is here - and the alleged victim did testify:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson

[Dazo]

In that case, why bother with an expensive prosecution in the first place? They must've had serious testimony in order to bring one, if you see what I mean?

 

The story of the trial is here - and the alleged victim did testify:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Jackson

 

Your post#526 implies it was the Jordan Chandler case. The one above is a completely different case.

 

I would imagine the prosecution would have been under huge pressure to get on him on trial. Can you imagine everyone being able to buy their way out of court ? It is completely unacceptable IMO for a person to escape prosecution just because they have money.

[shaun.lawson]

Your post#526 implies it was the Jordan Chandler case. The one above is a completely different case.

 

I would imagine the prosecution would have been under huge pressure to get on him on trial. Can you imagine everyone being able to buy their way out of court ? It is completely unacceptable IMO for a person to escape prosecution just because they have money.

 

Of course it is. You'll get no argument from me on that at all. But IMO, it's also completely unacceptable for so many civil suits to be brought on matters the authorities have concluded warrant no further action.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Apparently Michael Jackson is going to be turned into polythene bags.

 

That way, he'll still be white, he'll still be plastic and he'll still.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

better not

[Dazo]

Of course it is. You'll get no argument from me on that at all. But IMO, it's also completely unacceptable for so many civil suits to be brought on matters the authorities have concluded warrant no further action.

 

Yep not going to disagree with that.

 

You freely admit to describing Jackson as weird, however sharing a bed with children is not weird it is inappropriate and unacceptable. That act in itself IMO means he is not to be trusted and loses any benefit of assumed innocence. There is absolutely no need for a adult to share a bed with numerous children.

[I P Knightley]

Let's, for the moment, put to one side the assumption of guilt or innocence surrounding his behaviour with children.

 

And we'll also leave to one side the discussion surrounding the quality of his musical output and ability to entertain.

 

I think it's fair to assume that we're far more agreed on the issue that Michael Jackson was one melonfarming freak. And I, for one, find it quite sad that there is a vocal minority that seems to want to prevent us from having a laugh at a freak. When did standards change?

 

 

 

Oh, and Shaun, I'd rather you didn't bracket Pete Townshend with Jonathan King and Paul Gadd.

 

In all 3 cases, the allegations and evidence have been dealt with thoroughly by the forces of the law and I've picked up that you're very keen on paying attention to what the law says on these matters.

 

Townshend has never been accused of gnome-fumbling nor have there been any allegations about his behaviour with or towards children.

 

Glitter, King and Townshend were all convicted; and all conformed to the kind of secretive profile I mentioned above.

[shaun.lawson]

Yep not going to disagree with that.

 

You freely admit to describing Jackson as weird, however sharing a bed with children is not weird it is inappropriate and unacceptable. That act in itself IMO means he is not to be trusted and loses any benefit of assumed innocence. There is absolutely no need for a adult to share a bed with numerous children.

 

Inappropriate? Wholly. Weird? Extremely. But a criminal offence? No.

 

Incidentally - when I was five or six, I used to sleep in the same bed as my grandma every Friday night. I also used to bath with my other grandma around the same age. I realise now that both examples were a bit weird; but they were also completely innocent. Not that I'm comparing that with Jackson: it's just all I have to relate to it.

[shaun.lawson]

 

 

 

Oh, and Shaun, I'd rather you didn't bracket Pete Townshend with Jonathan King and Paul Gadd.

 

In all 3 cases, the allegations and evidence have been dealt with thoroughly by the forces of the law and I've picked up that you're very keen on paying attention to what the law says on these matters.

 

Townshend has never been accused of gnome-fumbling nor have there been any allegations about his behaviour with or towards children.

 

Ivana - apologies. I should've known that.

[Dazo]

Inappropriate? Wholly. Weird? Extremely. But a criminal offence? No.

 

Incidentally - when I was five or six, I used to sleep in the same bed as my grandma every Friday night. I also used to bath with my other grandma around the same age. I realise now that both examples were a bit weird; but they were also completely innocent. Not that I'm comparing that with Jackson: it's just all I have to relate to it.

 

I didn't say it was a criminal offence.

 

Seriously you can't compare sharing a bath/bed with your granny to what Jackson was doing. I have no idea if you have children but if you do how would you feel about them sharing a bed with a guy that stays round the corner ?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The legal system isn't the be-all and end-all, no. Plenty of people have been wrongly convicted, imprisoned, and in the past, hanged; some no doubt have got off when they were guilty too. I wasn't around at the time of the Guildford Four or Birmingham Six' conviction; I was when the Tottenham Three were though, and I knew they were innocent, as did many others.

 

I don't know what we can do about rape cases. The number of convictions, and below that, prosecutions brought in the first place are shockingly low - but the burden of proof has to remain as it is and has been for centuries. If it was lower, you'd probably just get more people being framed by a police and prosecution service desperate to satisfy political and public pressure for justice.

 

In the US, there's something seriously wrong with the burden of proof not being the same in civil and criminal cases, because of the doubt and muddied water it creates. All we can do as a public is accept it when someone is acquitted: if we don't, anarchy results, and an inordinate number of completely innocent people would have to suffer suspicion and being tainted by association for the rest of their lives.

 

Civil cases still have their place though. Take the recent example of the Omagh bomb civil trial. Thanks to sheer persistence from the families, they, and they alone, actually managed to attribute guilt where it belonged.

[Guest juvehearts]

Please elaborate on this piece of garbage.

 

 

with his abiliy to dance,

the dedicatation he showed to put in a peformance was awesome.

 

so stop looking for an arguement & accept no matter what you think of the man he is a icon.

 

tell me he isnt?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

with his abiliy to dance,

the dedicatation he showed to put in a peformance was awesome.

 

so stop looking for an arguement & accept no matter what you think of the man he is a icon.

 

tell me he isnt?

 

You said

 

I dont care how you see him as a person, his mucical career shaped millions upon millions of people to be the way they are today.

 

So he could dance! And that has "shaped millions of people"?

 

I'm asking you to justify this statement.

 

It's like saying U2 stopped the Balkan conflict!

[Guest juvehearts]

You said

 

 

 

So he could dance! And that has "shaped millions of people"?

 

I'm asking you to justify this statement.

 

It's like saying U2 stopped the Balkan conflict!

 

what do i need yo justify.

 

have you not been watching the news man.

millions of people have been paying tribute to the man.

so what do i need to justify?

 

you sir need to get off your high horse & open your eyes.

[felix]

Townshend has never been accused of gnome-fumbling nor have there been any allegations about his behaviour with or towards children.[/QUOTE]

 

Not strictly true Ivan; Townsend is on the Sex Offenders Register.

[I P Knightley]

what do i need yo justify.

 

have you not been watching the news man.

millions of people have been paying tribute to the man.

so what do i need to justify?

 

you sir need to get off your high horse & open your eyes.

 

you'll probably find that a very high percentage of those paying tribute have been caught up in the same bandwagon of hyperbole that you have.

 

Just like when Jade Goody was our Princess of Chavs and Diana the Princess of Hearts and half a dozen more who were marked up as super-special in the immediate aftermath of their deaths.

 

Jackson was good at what he did for a while. He was a super showman and, yes, he could dance.

 

But in a few months, you'll probably look back and feel a little embarrassed about perhaps going a tiny bit over the top. Unless you're American.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

what do i need yo justify.

 

have you not been watching the news man.

millions of people have been paying tribute to the man.

so what do i need to justify?

 

you sir need to get off your high horse & open your eyes.

 

You need to justify how he changed the lives of millions because it is rubbish, to be frank.

 

Millions are paying tribute to him. Quite. People tend to say nice things when people die, particularly when someone is famous. It doesn't mean they have changed their lives in any way.

[Denny Crane]

what 25 hit singles

sold over 750 MILLION records worldwide

 

the biggest selling album of all time & will never be overtaken of thriller. Over 270 million albums sold worldwide

 

18 grammys ffs

enducted TWICE into the music hall of fame

with his solo career & his time with the jackson 5

 

Michael Jackson's musical career will never EVER be overtaken & anyone that didnt like his music is not human.

 

He was a pioneer, he was black & people forget this, his infulance in mainstreem society is overshaddowed by his allagations of child molostation is justified but his musical career should be primary.

 

he will always be in my eyes the king of pop & a legend

 

 

end of.

 

juve

 

 

He was no Joe Strummer son.

[bighusref]

I know what he said, I read it. I know what I said, I wrote it.

 

I love you, I really do.

[BlackJAC?]

Oh, and Shaun, I'd rather you didn't bracket Pete Townshend with Jonathan King and Paul Gadd.

 

In all 3 cases, the allegations and evidence have been dealt with thoroughly by the forces of the law and I've picked up that you're very keen on paying attention to what the law says on these matters.

 

Townshend has never been accused of gnome-fumbling nor have there been any allegations about his behaviour with or towards children.

 

Jesus H Christ, is this for real? Whether he's physically touched a child is neither here nor there. By entering these sites they are every bit as bad as the actual fiddlers themselves, because without visitors to their sites, these sites cease to exist. There will me a number of kids being/ or that have been abused primarily to get images and film for their paying members. You don't have to physically do something to be every bit as bad as those that are physically doing the abusing.

 

Look at it another way, you hire a hitman to murder someone, you're still going to get punished the same as the person that carried out the crime.

 

You just don't get put on a sex offender list for nothing ffs.

[Denny Crane]

Jesus H Christ, is this for real? Whether he's physically touched a child is neither here nor there. By entering these sites they are every bit as bad as the actual fiddlers themselves, because without visitors to their sites, these sites cease to exist. There will me a number of kids being/ or that have been abused primarily to get images and film for their paying members. You don't have to physically do something to be every bit as bad as those that are physically doing the abusing.

 

Look at it another way, you hire a hitman to murder someone, you're still going to get punished the same as the person that carried out the crime.

 

You just don't get put on a sex offender list for nothing ffs.

 

Here's one version of the Townshend episode

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Townshend#Legal_matters

[Sergio Garcia]

A beast dead is only a good thing in my opinion.

[Skiba]

Jesus H Christ, is this for real? Whether he's physically touched a child is neither here nor there. By entering these sites they are every bit as bad as the actual fiddlers themselves, because without visitors to their sites, these sites cease to exist. There will me a number of kids being/ or that have been abused primarily to get images and film for their paying members. You don't have to physically do something to be every bit as bad as those that are physically doing the abusing.

 

Look at it another way, you hire a hitman to murder someone, you're still going to get punished the same as the person that carried out the crime.

 

You just don't get put on a sex offender list for nothing ffs.

 

Exactly Correct:2thumbsup: Whether Townsend did this innocently, I don't know. It takes a real idiot to not recognize that every time a page is accessed when it is paid for, is a penny in the bank to abusers.

[Skiba]

what do i need yo justify.

 

have you not been watching the news man.

millions of people have been paying tribute to the man.

so what do i need to justify?

 

you sir need to get off your high horse & open your eyes.

 

Too many people are getting caught up in the Mass Hysteria of his death perpetrated by the media. It's like a chain reaction.

 

Yeah, he was talented as a musician, but again his private life was sickening, which is what I will remember him for.

 

If other people choose to remember his music over this, then maybe they need to have a good look at themself.

[Dave Ross]

Here's one version of the Townshend episode

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Townshend#Legal_matters

 

Townshend was wrong but anyone who thinks he's a beast has not read up on the story. To compare him to King, Glitter and Jackson is incomprehensible.

[I P Knightley]

Townshend has never been accused of gnome-fumbling nor have there been any allegations about his behaviour with or towards children.

 

Not strictly true Ivan; Townsend is on the Sex Offenders Register.

 

The Wiki link has already been posted and it reflects the facts as I know them. I followed the case a little more closely than many (including' date=' I suspect the many whose kneejerk reaction is to see "Sex Offenders Register" and jump to the "kiddy fiddler" reaction.)

 

I'm not saying to Shaun that nothing happened, all I asked was that it be recognised that Pete's conviction was for something entirely different to those of Gadd & King.

 

BlackJAC - again, I'm not saying that [i']habitually [/i]viewing kiddie porn for pleasure is innocent or pardonable while the act of interfering with children is abhorrent. It's not.

 

Townshend did what he did and was completely open in the aftermath of Operation Ore. He had his reasons to research child abuse and the reasons behind it could have been very hurtful to some of his family but they rounded behind him to give him support as did Roger Daltrey who, in his Teenage Cancer Trust position stood to lose an awful lot. Don't forget that Roger was very quick to airbrush Gary Glitter out of his history (you know the reason why Daltrey sported a roundel eyepatch in '96, don't you?) - he's not a tolerant man.

 

I'd also point out that that the Police did not prosecute Townshend so he was not convicted. The reason? I'm not 100% certain but think it was down to the fact that their 4 month investigation did not reveal habitual or serial access to the sites.

 

So, all that, and quite a few other things I've read and heard lead me to believe that Townshend should not be categorised with the other two who were actually convicted of sex offences.

 

(Oh, and on a technicality, I'd point out that he's not on the register;))

 

 

Back to the matter in hand though. That Michael Jackson?? Creepy freak, or what, eh?

[hughesie27]

I didn't say it was a criminal offence.

Well it shouldn't really therefore void his assumed innocence for not breaking the law

 

Seriously you can't compare sharing a bath/bed with your granny to what Jackson was doing. I have no idea if you have children but if you do how would you feel about them sharing a bed with a guy that stays round the corner ?

It wasn't really like that was it? He wasn't a stranger to these kids. He also never done this with a lot of children only ones whoms family agreed to it and to the families he was actually a close friend.

 

You wouldn't leave your child with a stranger but your next door neighbour for 15 years?

[Harry Palmer]

Is Michael Jackson dead? Yes or No? He is....

 

Some interesting weather lately.

 

"You're all going to die." Will there be a 20 page thread to commemorate your passing? No. Humans die, like every other species. Deal with it.

[hughesie27]

Too many people are getting caught up in the Mass Hysteria of his death perpetrated by the media. It's like a chain reaction.

 

Yeah, he was talented as a musician, but again his private life was sickening, which is what I will remember him for.

 

If other people choose to remember his music over this, then maybe they need to have a good look at themself.

 

Time to take that chip off your shoulder.

[hughesie27]

Is Michael Jackson dead? Yes or No? He is....

 

Some interesting weather lately.

 

"You're all going to die." Will there be a 20 page thread to commemorate your passing? No. Humans die, like every other species. Deal with it.

Yep, that is how I like to look at things. Particularly family deaths. ***** them.

 

Mabye this is such big news as he was still a working man and still very young?

 

Had he been 80 odd then clearly the fuss made over him will have been subdued in comparison.(sp)

 

Thanks for your contribution though. Bearing in mind we are having a discussion about his life not death.

[felix]

The Wiki link has already been posted and it reflects the facts as I know them. I followed the case a little more closely than many (including, I suspect the many whose kneejerk reaction is to see "Sex Offenders Register" and jump to the "kiddy fiddler" reaction.)

 

I'm not saying to Shaun that nothing happened, all I asked was that it be recognised that Pete's conviction was for something entirely different to those of Gadd & King.

 

Townshend did what he did and was completely open in the aftermath of Operation Ore. He had his reasons to research child abuse and the reasons behind it could have been very hurtful to some of his family but they rounded behind him to give him support as did Roger Daltrey who, in his Teenage Cancer Trust position stood to lose an awful lot. Don't forget that Roger was very quick to airbrush Gary Glitter out of his history (you know the reason why Daltrey sported a roundel eyepatch in '96, don't you?) - he's not a tolerant man.

 

I'd also point out that that the Police did not prosecute Townshend so he was not convicted. The reason? I'm not 100% certain but think it was down to the fact that their 4 month investigation did not reveal habitual or serial access to the sites.

 

So, all that, and quite a few other things I've read and heard lead me to believe that Townshend should not be categorised with the other two who were actually convicted of sex offences.

 

(Oh, and on a technicality, I'd point out that he's not on the register;))

 

 

Back to the matter in hand though. That Michael Jackson?? Creepy freak, or what, eh?

 

Tecnnically you're right, but he WAS on the sex offenders register. He also technically committed the same offence as Chris Langham, who got 10 months !

 

Regardless, I'd agree Townsend should not be categorised with King,Glitter or even Langham - he was convicted of nothing - just like Jackson, therefore will be remembered for his artistic legacy - just like Michael Jackson should.

[Skiba]

Time to take that chip off your shoulder.

 

Ok Mum.

[Dazo]

You wouldn't leave your child with a stranger but your next door neighbour for 15 years?

 

What does "leave" mean ? If your asking me if I would allow my neighbour of 15 years to watch my kid then it would completely depend on the neighbours personality and my relationship with him. However if "leave" means allowing my children to sleep with my neighbour in his bed then the answer would be NO. I honestly can't think of a single instance when I would allow that to happen.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

Just another day on Kicback for the boy Lawson.