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"innocent" man dies after police assault


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deesidejambo

I once got shoved out the way by a polis on a Police horse at a Scotland game in the 70's. If that happens nowadays will the horse get fired?

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Nelly Terraces

A New York fund manager recorded the footage, believed to be the last showing Mr Tomlinson alive.

 

He said he came forward with the video because the vendor's family "were not getting any answers".

 

I hate these left wing, pinko, fag, troublestirring, Fund Managers. They deserve a beating by the cops:hammer: - I'd call that good policing.

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deesidejambo
A New York fund manager recorded the footage, believed to be the last showing Mr Tomlinson alive.

 

He said he came forward with the video because the vendor's family "were not getting any answers".

 

I hate these left wing, pinko, fag, troublestirring, Fund Managers. They deserve a beating by the cops:hammer: - I'd call that good policing.

 

Interesting that he "came forward" with the video straight to the Newspaper, not to the Police or the family. The guys son was on radio today saying that he would have preferred that the video had not been sent to a newspaper. I wonder how much the fund manager got?

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A New York fund manager recorded the footage, believed to be the last showing Mr Tomlinson alive.

 

He said he came forward with the video because the vendor's family "were not getting any answers".

 

I hate these left wing, pinko, fag, troublestirring, Fund Managers. They deserve a beating by the cops:hammer: - I'd call that good policing.

 

 

Exactly, i mean if they didn't get a good shoeing now and again we'd be well on our way to a lawless society.

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Interesting that he "came forward" with the video straight to the Newspaper, not to the Police or the family. The guys son was on radio today saying that he would have preferred that the video had not been sent to a newspaper. I wonder how much the fund manager got?

 

 

The Independent Police Complaints Commission already has a copy, and of the one taken by a freelance photographer, as well as statements from both apparently. It seems that thankfully they take it a bit more seriously than some others.

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The Mighty Thor

I understand that they are flying Mr Tomlinson's grieving family from Brazil for the multi million pound two year inquest with appropriate wailing for the cameras and Max Clifford.

 

Ooops hang on a minute. wrong guy.

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deesidejambo
I understand that they are flying Mr Tomlinson's grieving family from Brazil for the multi million pound two year inquest with appropriate wailing for the cameras and Max Clifford.

 

Ooops hang on a minute. wrong guy.

 

Don't ge tme started on the Brazil Police! They just murder anyone they catch. Anyone remember the video of them executing a Ned in the street? Point-blank headshot from 2 feet, with the guy held on the ground in handcuffs. Now thats policing.

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Nelly Terraces
I'm fairly sure that the area it happened in would have a CCTV network covering it.

 

Slap bang in the middle of the city mate, the place is covered in them.

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Don't ge tme started on the Brazil Police! They just murder anyone they catch. Anyone remember the video of them executing a Ned in the street? Point-blank headshot from 2 feet, with the guy held on the ground in handcuffs. Now thats policing.

 

And people wonder why De Menezes ran from the police?

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I P Knightley
I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for this but he was wearing a Millwall top. Millwall and the police aren't exactly great chums. So was he being a little bit cocky at being confronted by riot police and not wanting to show that he was intimidated? These colours don't run etc.

 

You're conveniently ignoring the Jade Goody effect.

 

As a Millwall man, he'd have close connections to Bermondsey. He would, therefore, be mourning the loss of Bermondsey's Rose and, in common with most Londoners, be compelled to walk at a funereal pace.

 

I, for one, can't wait for the thousands upon thousands of pounds to be poured into the legal system and independent enquiries which may bring recrimination but won't bring justice.

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Here's an interesting couple of videos over how our police force "deal" with completely peaceful protestors.

 

 

 

Still. I'm sure we can completely trust them to give us the odd slap when required.

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Romanov Stole My Pension

The police had obviously warned him already and he was still trying to take the pish, so a little push in the back was probably more appropriate than arrest. It is unfortunate that he died and I feel sorry for his family.

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The police had obviously warned him already and he was still trying to take the pish, so a little push in the back was probably more appropriate than arrest. It is unfortunate that he died and I feel sorry for his family.

 

Source?

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Witnesses said that, prior to the moment captured on video, he had already been hit with batons and thrown to the floor by police who blocked his route home.

 

One witness, Anna Branthwaite, a photographer, described how, in the minutes before the video was shot, she saw Tomlinson walking towards Cornhill Street.

 

"A riot police officer had already grabbed him and was pushing him," she said.

 

"It wasn't just pushing him – he'd rushed him. He went to the floor and he did actually roll. That was quite noticeable.

 

"It was the force of the impact. He bounced on the floor. It was a very forceful knocking down from behind. The officer hit him twice with a baton when he was lying on the floor.

 

"So it wasn't just that the officer had pushed him – it became an assault.

 

"And then the officer picked him up from the back, continued to walk or charge with him, and threw him.

 

"He was running and stumbling. He didn't turn and confront the officer or anything like that."

 

The guy was assaulted before that video even started shooting. No wonder he looked confused.

 

Unfortunately I guess it'll take people here actually being affected by something like this before they open their eyes. The police are not infallable and more and more this is being shown up.

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Of course. But what kind of society goes out of it's way to defend people who antagonise the police? I was brought up to know that if I did something wrong, I got a cuff round the ear or a skelped erse - if not from my parents, from my friends parents. This was enough of a deterrent to stop me doing stuff (mostly). If I know that I can antagonise the police or push them as far as possible with no potential recrimination, what kind of country is it then? What stops people misbehaving then? The answer - fecking nothing.
Your parents/their friends were probably better judges than a police officer. People seem to think that everyone who goes into the police are good and that the uniform makes them some sort of moral crusaders, well sadly that is certainly not the case. What's to stop the police 'misbehaving' if there is nothing to stop them? As already stated, if the police are not subject to the same laws the are supposed to uphold where are we then? If they want to uphold the law and gain respect then they should lead by example. Sadly there have been more than a few cases where it's the police that antagonise those they are policing with their own behaviour. Edited by Maximus
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Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC

From the clip it really did look like he was taking the **** and walking deliberately slowly infront of them. Why would he do that if he was just on his way home from work?

 

Don't condone what they did but you have to remember some of the arseholes they were dealing with that day probably forced them to be forcefull and they just picked the wrong guy.

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From the clip it really did look like he was taking the **** and walking deliberately slowly infront of them. Why would he do that if he was just on his way home from work?

 

Don't condone what they did but you have to remember some of the arseholes they were dealing with that day probably forced them to be forcefull and they just picked the wrong guy.

 

According to witnesses he got battered even before the video started.

 

Why are people so determined to defend this. He was walking slowly and got attacked by a police officer wearing full body armour. How can anybody consider this "ok".

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The guy was assaulted before that video even started shooting. No wonder he looked confused.

 

Unfortunately I guess it'll take people here actually being affected by something like this before they open their eyes. The police are not infallable and more and more this is being shown up.

 

 

Thankfully this person's already spoken to the IPCC. It seems they're actually ready to take action re this........whatever did happen, there appears to be several first-hand accounts, as well as footage, so hopefully it'll all come out.

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Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC
According to witnesses he got battered even before the video started.

 

Why are people so determined to defend this. He was walking slowly and got attacked by a police officer wearing full body armour. How can anybody consider this "ok".

 

It was in the middle of a protest, how many bams would have been going about causing trouble. The only way to police them is with force. If he was out getting his lunch on a normal day and that happened then aye, it would be an outrage.

 

I'm not defending it, I said 'I don't condone it' but there is more than 1 side to a story.

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According to witnesses he got battered even before the video started.

 

Why are people so determined to defend this. He was walking slowly and got attacked by a police officer wearing full body armour. How can anybody consider this "ok".

 

 

This is confusing me as well. Even if the guy walked up to the police and called them a shower of ***** and whatever else, they still are not entitled to ****ing hit him to the ground. If he broke the law arrest him, otherwise don't.

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Guest S.U.S.S.

While its very sad that anyone passes for whatever reason. 99 times out of 100 falling to the ground (or being pushed) will not result in a heart attack. For this to have happened the person must have been very ill and it would have happened anyway.

 

I for one don?t want the police to pussy foot around these protestors (I do understand the person in question was not there as a protestor) the carnage they caused in Edinburgh was a disgrace. The quicker swampy and his pals are brought to justice and made to contribute to society as opposed to campaigning against this or that the better.

 

If a policeman tells you to do something, do it.

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I'M IBRAHIM TALL

So if the guy is completely innocent and in the wrong place at the wrong time etc. he would have no hesitation on moving on when the police asked him to. Surely anyone in the midst of a massive operation like this would have the pressence of mind to get out sharpish if they realised he was in the "wrong place at the wrong time"

 

Is the push heavy handed? Possibly. Did the push cause him to have a heart attack? Highly highly unlikely. Yet again the holier than thou brigade point the finger at the police. The first to whine about police being over involved are the first to **** their pants when a policeman doesnt come to their door within seconds when they report a dog crapping on the pavement.

 

Next time these rent a crowd monkeys want to protest, the police should tell them to beat it. Because your next option is having protests covered by the army. And your man wouldnt have been asked to move 3 times by that lot. Because he'd been shot or bundled into the back of a van

 

Britain a police state? We are not even close. Let the hand ringers and thebleeding heart liberalists spend a day in Zimbabwe or downtown Rio de Janiero. THAT is what a police state looks like

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Stuart Lyon

Dr Tall can you elaborate on your diagnosis that the violent push and friendly stroke with the baton is highly unlikely to have caused this man's heart attack? I would have thought that the shock of being brutalised in this manner would have been enough to trigger a heart attack in someone with a diagnosed or undiagnosed heart condition.

 

Perhaps someone form the medical profession could offer an opinion!

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I'M IBRAHIM TALL
Dr Tall can you elaborate on your diagnosis that the violent push and friendly stroke with the baton is highly unlikely to have caused this man's heart attack? I would have thought that the shock of being brutalised in this manner would have been enough to trigger a heart attack in someone with a diagnosed or undiagnosed heart condition.

 

Perhaps someone form the medical profession could offer an opinion!

 

A doctor on Sky News this morning said it was highly unlikely the 2 were linked. But when did the thoughts of a qualified doctor get in the way of a good story

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I'm certainly no hand wringing liberal or anything else similar. I appreciate the job the police do, and do not think we live in a police state (however, i think making comparisons with Zimbabwe or other countries is pretty daft and entriely irrelevant).

 

I'm sure the police have an extremely tough job with these type of demonstrations, and to be honest i don't have a great deal of sympathy for injuries caused to those actually "having a go" with the police. However, the evidence here would appear this guy was not like that, and certainly at the time of the incident was walking away, hands in pockets, with his back to the police. That's what stinks.

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I'M IBRAHIM TALL
And all doctors have the same opinion and that's why nobody ever asks for a second opinion!

 

 

Your right Stuart, the fascist police ******* killed that nice man and the police are damned to hell. FFS.

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A doctor on Sky News this morning said it was highly unlikely the 2 were linked. But when did the thoughts of a qualified doctor get in the way of a good story

 

 

I'm not saying him dying was as a direct result of what allegedly happened, but does that excuse it?

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Tommy Wiseau
ACAB

 

 

Best post on the thread.

 

FT Police.

Edited by Thommo
A different kind of eff tee pee aapears to be on the swear filter...
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So if the guy is completely innocent and in the wrong place at the wrong time etc. he would have no hesitation on moving on when the police asked him to. Surely anyone in the midst of a massive operation like this would have the pressence of mind to get out sharpish if they realised he was in the "wrong place at the wrong time"

 

Wasn't possible. The police were cordoning off the area using force. He was also possibly kicked about as well.

 

Is the push heavy handed? Possibly. Did the push cause him to have a heart attack? Highly highly unlikely. Yet again the holier than thou brigade point the finger at the police. The first to whine about police being over involved are the first to **** their pants when a policeman doesnt come to their door within seconds when they report a dog crapping on the pavement.

 

So we should accept policemen breaking the law because we also might need them sometime. I don't even know where to start picking holes in that arguement. Good one on the push "possibly" being heavy handed.

 

Next time these rent a crowd monkeys want to protest, the police should tell them to beat it. Because your next option is having protests covered by the army. And your man wouldnt have been asked to move 3 times by that lot. Because he'd been shot or bundled into the back of a van

 

Wow.

 

Britain a police state? We are not even close. Let the hand ringers and thebleeding heart liberalists spend a day in Zimbabwe or downtown Rio de Janiero. THAT is what a police state looks like

 

Did you watch the links I posted earlier? Completely peaceful protesters cornered in between steel fences, refused the right to leave or do the toilet then held there for hours and only eventually allowed to leave when they gave their names and addresses to the police. That is completely PEACEFUL protesters by the way.

 

Combine that with the gradual eradication of civil liberties - constant CCTV monitoring, details of who we speak to on the telephone and online held for up to a year - the ability to hold somebody for up to 28 days with no charge etc how would you describe this country if not as a police state?

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deesidejambo

I heard that the folk who trashed the RBS building were also the Police in plain clothes. That shows how evil they are.

 

And if anyone can prove that it wasn't the Police then it was protestors trashing the place peacefully. The fire they lit was simply to keep them warm.

 

And if anyone can show that the trashing wasn't peaceful, then the protestors had been forced into doing it by the evil Police intimidation.

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Stuart Lyon

I am no police hater but some of them do bring a lot of criticism on themselves by acting like complete tossers in situation that don't warrant it. Strange how they come over all cosy, warm and friendly when they want you to be a witness or help them in some way with their enquiries.

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I heard that the folk who trashed the RBS building were also the Police in plain clothes. That shows how evil they are.

 

And if anyone can prove that it wasn't the Police then it was protestors trashing the place peacefully. The fire they lit was simply to keep them warm.

 

And if anyone can show that the trashing wasn't peaceful, then the protestors had been forced into doing it by the evil Police intimidation.

 

 

First rule of trolling. At least be funny enough to amuse yourself.

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I heard that the folk who trashed the RBS building were also the Police in plain clothes. That shows how evil they are.

 

And if anyone can prove that it wasn't the Police then it was protestors trashing the place peacefully. The fire they lit was simply to keep them warm.

 

And if anyone can show that the trashing wasn't peaceful, then the protestors had been forced into doing it by the evil Police intimidation.

 

 

What are you actually talking about??

 

The issue is a man allegedly being struck by police, whilst he walked away with his back turned and hands in pockets.

 

It's not about morons involved in violence, destruction of property, etc. Those people should clearly be arrested, and would have less arguement against heavy handedness (though still not common asault).

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deesidejambo
Wasn't possible. The police were cordoning off the area using force. He was also possibly kicked about as well.

 

 

 

So we should accept policemen breaking the law because we also might need them sometime. I don't even know where to start picking holes in that arguement. Good one on the push "possibly" being heavy handed.

 

 

 

Wow.

 

 

 

Did you watch the links I posted earlier? Completely peaceful protesters cornered in between steel fences, refused the right to leave or do the toilet then held there for hours and only eventually allowed to leave when they gave their names and addresses to the police. That is completely PEACEFUL protesters by the way.

 

Combine that with the gradual eradication of civil liberties - constant CCTV monitoring, details of who we speak to on the telephone and online held for up to a year - the ability to hold somebody for up to 28 days with no charge etc how would you describe this country if not as a police state?

 

Its not against the law for Police to use reasonable force to move people or crowds. The question is - was the push "reasonable force". In my view it was - the guy was refusing to move on - he got a baton on the back of the leg and still refused to move on so I can understand the copper pushing him.

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Drew Busby !

I think most cops, most of the time, are as fair minded as you or me. But they're not all saints (the job itself can be brutalising). The difficulty to me lies with the use of "traditional methods" of policing.

 

We (ok, I) make a quick and easy moral judgement between some scembag hoodlum falling down the stairs at the local nick or taking a size 12 boot in the ba's ... and some random member of the public (could be you or me) taking a flying baton or getting thrown down by some aderenaline charged cop.

 

Unfortunately many of the cops who do the former, probably also do the latter. And more unfortunately for the cop, if they're nabbed for doing it then they have to take the punishment. Them's the breaks.

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Its not against the law for Police to use reasonable force to move people or crowds. The question is - was the push "reasonable force". In my view it was - the guy was refusing to move on - he got a baton on the back of the leg and still refused to move on so I can understand the copper pushing him.

 

No. Punching somebody in the back of the head is not "reasonable force".

 

 

 

I can't believe I just had to type that sentence.

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Its not against the law for Police to use reasonable force to move people or crowds. The question is - was the push "reasonable force". In my view it was - the guy was refusing to move on - he got a baton on the back of the leg and still refused to move on so I can understand the copper pushing him.

 

It's not 'reasonable force' it's 'minimum force required' as the man in question posed no apparent threat and was not acting in a aggressive manner at all, I would say that the force used on him was way beyond what was required.

 

Batons are supposed to be defensive, used when there is a physical threat to the officer, usually when the offender is also armed. Think about it, riot batons are deployed with shields, yet in the video the officer batons the man first, when no officer is under any threat from him whatsoever.

 

Like the De Menezes case the police here obviously acted in a manner and with an aggression far beyond their remit. It's not just a pity this man died, it's criminal.

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I for one don?t want the police to pussy foot around these protestors (I do understand the person in question was not there as a protestor) the carnage they caused in Edinburgh was a disgrace. The quicker swampy and his pals are brought to justice and made to contribute to society as opposed to campaigning against this or that the better.

 

.

 

There is a difference between the rioters and protesters.

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No. Punching somebody in the back of the head is not "reasonable force".

 

Who punched him in the head. ?

The video on the BBC site just shows him being pushed in the back ?

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No. Punching somebody in the back of the head is not "reasonable force".

 

 

 

I can't believe I just had to type that sentence.

 

I would give up mate.

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Nicholas Brody
No. Punching somebody in the back of the head is not "reasonable force".

 

 

 

I can't believe I just had to type that sentence.

 

:dull:

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Who punched him in the head. ?

The video on the BBC site just shows him being pushed in the back ?

 

Looks like a punch to me. Perhaps upper back as opposed to head I guess.

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Looks like a punch to me. Perhaps upper back as opposed to head I guess.

 

It looks nothing like a punch...it looks like a two handed-push to the back, (from which the unfortunate chap gets up and looks a bit bewildered).

 

Never mind - lynch the cant anyhow.:hammer:

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It looks nothing like a punch...it looks like a two handed-push to the back, (from which the unfortunate chap gets up and looks a bit bewildered).

 

Never mind - lynch the cant anyhow.:hammer:

 

Haha. You can't be serious. It wasn't a punch, he simply pushed his hands into him with force enough to knock him over. That's ok then.

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I don't honestly care whether or not they were 'busy' with the protesters and overwhelmed by the stress of the occasion, these officers are supposed to be trained to cope with these situations without losing the rag or doing anything rash. It may be that other facts come out in the wash but I don't know what would be enough to convince me that some bloke walking past the police very slowly deserved to be treated like that. The fact he might have been doing it on purpose to be as aggravating as possible is completely irrelevant, police are meant to deal with that...it's their job to do so. If they don't have the self-control or temperament to do it then get them the hell away from the general public.

 

Blaming the police for his death is a bit much unless they find some sort of medical link between the two incidents, but if he hadn't died, we wouldn't have known anything about it in the first place. The police shouldn't be manhandling people like this, full stop.

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Haha. You can't be serious. It wasn't a punch, he simply pushed his hands into him with force enough to knock him over. That's ok then.

 

Not a joke.

A push to the back would (in this case) be seen as reasonable force.

An (imaginary) punch to the head would not.

 

The policeman will be judged on what actually happened.

Fact.

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I don't honestly care whether or not they were 'busy' with the protesters and overwhelmed by the stress of the occasion, these officers are supposed to be trained to cope with these situations without losing the rag or doing anything rash. It may be that other facts come out in the wash but I don't know what would be enough to convince me that some bloke walking past the police very slowly deserved to be treated like that. The fact he might have been doing it on purpose to be as aggravating as possible is completely irrelevant, police are meant to deal with that...it's their job to do so. If they don't have the self-control or temperament to do it then get them the hell away from the general public.

 

Blaming the police for his death is a bit much unless they find some sort of medical link between the two incidents, but if he hadn't died, we wouldn't have known anything about it in the first place. The police shouldn't be manhandling people like this, full stop.

 

 

nail head hit

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