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"innocent" man dies after police assault


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I have just watched the video of this so-called "innocent" man and in my opinion it is clear he is trying to be a wide-boy and deliberately walk out of the police way as slowly as possible.

 

I am sorry the guy died, but I am really hacked off at the super pc newspapers claiming that those nasty policeman assualted an "innocent bystander" - I'm sorry, if there is riot police coming and telling you to do something, you do it quicker than he does in the video, assuming you are really innocent of course!

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2009/04/08/outrage-as-video-shows-baton-cop-hitting-g20-victim-ian-tomlinson-from-behind-86908-21262590/

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Dr. Bapswent
I have just watched the video of this so-called "innocent" man and in my opinion it is clear he is trying to be a wide-boy and deliberately walk out of the police way as slowly as possible.

 

I am sorry the guy died, but I am really hacked off at the super pc newspapers claiming that those nasty policeman assualted an "innocent bystander" - I'm sorry, if there is riot police coming and telling you to do something, you do it quicker than he does in the video, assuming you are really innocent of course!

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2009/04/08/outrage-as-video-shows-baton-cop-hitting-g20-victim-ian-tomlinson-from-behind-86908-21262590/

 

So what do you think is justified behaviour in order to get charged to the ground by a policemen in riot gear?

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Not so sure seats.

 

The guy had his hands in his pockets and was walking away from the police guys. He had know idea that he was about to be struck with a baton from behind and knocked to the ground. The words that spring to my mind are "unnecessary" and "excessive".

 

Looked like the policeman got a wee bit carried away with unexpectedly grave consequences. I definitely don't think that the guy deserved to be assaulted like that.

 

As for action against the policeman, I'm not too sure. I just don't think he has the right temperament to be put into that situation again as the level of force that he used far exceeded what was called for. The guy should be found and relieved of duty although I don't think criminal charges are called for.

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Dr. Bapswent

He later died of a heart attack.

 

Im not convinced you can relate the two events anyway.

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Not saying the guy deserved to be thrown to the ground, but he was obviously ignoring whatever they were saying to him and IMO he was quite clearly trying to go as slowly as possible - if he was a sub going off, the ref would have booked him. I also think it is worth saying that he looked pi$$ed as a fart to me, which may have had an influence on the heart attack.

 

I suppose my main gripe is the way it has been reported rather than what actually happened.

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So he didn't get out of their way quick enough (supposing this is true, not that i personally believe it), and this entitles them to attack him???

 

Also interesting the eyewitneass account by a freelance photographer there, who claims to have seeen the police previously hit him more than once with a baton......as he was walking away from them.

 

I think someone could end up in the brown stuff over this.

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He later died of a heart attack.

 

Im not convinced you can relate the two events anyway.

 

It's probably likely to have been brought on by the extreme stress of the situation but proving that would be difficult so you're probably correct.

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Not saying the guy deserved to be thrown to the ground, but he was obviously ignoring whatever they were saying to him and IMO he was quite clearly trying to go as slowly as possible - if he was a sub going off, the ref would have booked him. I also think it is worth saying that he looked pi$$ed as a fart to me, which may have had an influence on the heart attack.

 

I suppose my main gripe is the way it has been reported rather than what actually happened.

 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong on this as i've no idea, however, he was walking home from work so find it quite hard to believe.

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Story goes he was just a guy walking home after work, nothing to do with the protest.

 

In what way was he threatning the police exactly? He had his back turned, it's not like he was shouting abuse or threatning them, in fact it looked pretty much like he did not have a clue what was going on, then he gets smacked to the ground. Yeah, great policing.

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Not saying the guy deserved to be thrown to the ground, but he was obviously ignoring whatever they were saying to him and IMO he was quite clearly trying to go as slowly as possible - if he was a sub going off, the ref would have booked him. I also think it is worth saying that he looked pi$$ed as a fart to me, which may have had an influence on the heart attack.

 

I suppose my main gripe is the way it has been reported rather than what actually happened.

 

The guy had just finished work and i've never read anything that suggested he was drunk. If the police had wanted him to move quicker, they could have taken him by the arm and escorted / cautioned him in a legal and non violent manner. Assaulting a man from behind was clearly an inappropriate use of force.

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I have just watched the video of this so-called "innocent" man and in my opinion it is clear he is trying to be a wide-boy and deliberately walk out of the police way as slowly as possible.

 

I am sorry the guy died, but I am really hacked off at the super pc newspapers claiming that those nasty policeman assualted an "innocent bystander" - I'm sorry, if there is riot police coming and telling you to do something, you do it quicker than he does in the video, assuming you are really innocent of course!

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2009/04/08/outrage-as-video-shows-baton-cop-hitting-g20-victim-ian-tomlinson-from-behind-86908-21262590/

 

Where does it say he was a bystander, the guy was walking home from work and had nothing to do with the protests.

 

He may have been hacked off he couldn't get home because the streets were blocked does that justify being coshed from behind with a police baton

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Randle P McMurphy

Yes he was quite obviously guilty of the heinous crime of walking away slowly. Get a grip man, thats what the powers of arrest are for not a complete over reaction by assaulting an unarmed man from behind. The policeman should be identified and fired.

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Chumbawumba are in the studio right now recording a song about it.

 

I hope it's not a reprise of that dreadful "i get knocked down, but i get up again" song as that would certainly be in poor taste. :qqb013:

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I hope it's not a reprise of that dreadful "i get knocked down, but i get up again" song as that would certainly be in poor taste. :qqb013:

 

:hammer:

 

a suitable smilie to follow the song......

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Dr. Bapswent
Story goes he was just a guy walking home after work, nothing to do with the protest.

 

In what way was he threatning the police exactly? He had his back turned, it's not like he was shouting abuse or threatning them, in fact it looked pretty much like he did not have a clue what was going on, then he gets smacked to the ground. Yeah, great policing.

 

Really...juut wandering home....minding his own business...in the middle of a riot......and he didnt know what was going on......so he chose to walk right past the police and the police dogs real slowly.....?

 

 

Hmmmmmm

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So he didn't get out of their way quick enough (supposing this is true, not that i personally believe it), and this entitles them to attack him???

 

Also interesting the eyewitneass account by a freelance photographer there, who claims to have seeen the police previously hit him more than once with a baton......as he was walking away from them.

 

I think someone could end up in the brown stuff over this.

 

Whilst I do not think polis are angels, these particular guys were trying to do an unenviable job and control the situation. It is vital that they stamp their authority on the situation or they could be overrun by rioters (ahem, I mean "protestors"). What else could they do? arrest him? Not practical IMO. If he was a wee ned coming out of a nightclub being a wide boy, he would have deserved that push, the fact that he was an old ned in a potential riot situation does not change anything IMO. The fact he died afterwards is unfortunate, but I do not believe anything should be done against the officers involved and I still think it is irresponsible reporting to suggest he was completely innocent.

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From what I heard the guy wasn't quite "all there" which could explain why he is walking slowly. Or he might have just been pretty annoyed that he was caught up in the middle of a load of crap that he didn't care about.

 

Whatever the case, it's a complete over-reaction and the officer involved should be charged with assault. The inverted commas around innocent in your title are very poor. What exactly was the guy "guilty" of?

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Really...juut wandering home....minding his own business...in the middle of a riot......and he didnt know what was going on......so he chose to walk right past the police and the police dogs real slowly.....?

 

 

Hmmmmmm

 

 

He works on a newspaper stand along the road from where they were, and apparently that was the way home.

 

At the end of the day it doesn't matter a donald duck why he was there / at what speed he was walking, he had his back to them with his hand in his pockets, he shouldn't have been struck in that way from behind (is it just me or does that sound a bit MacHugh??)

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Really...juut wandering home....minding his own business...in the middle of a riot......and he didnt know what was going on......so he chose to walk right past the police and the police dogs real slowly.....?

 

 

Hmmmmmm

 

Yes.Your point is?

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Whilst I do not think polis are angels, these particular guys were trying to do an unenviable job and control the situation. It is vital that they stamp their authority on the situation or they could be overrun by rioters (ahem, I mean "protestors"). What else could they do? arrest him? Not practical IMO. If he was a wee ned coming out of a nightclub being a wide boy, he would have deserved that push, the fact that he was an old ned in a potential riot situation does not change anything IMO. The fact he died afterwards is unfortunate, but I do not believe anything should be done against the officers involved and I still think it is irresponsible reporting to suggest he was completely innocent.

 

Christ. Sometimes I wonder what world people live in. One day I hope a police officer comes up behind you and shoves you on your face. I really do.

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Whilst I do not think polis are angels, these particular guys were trying to do an unenviable job and control the situation. It is vital that they stamp their authority on the situation or they could be overrun by rioters (ahem, I mean "protestors"). What else could they do? arrest him? Not practical IMO. If he was a wee ned coming out of a nightclub being a wide boy, he would have deserved that push, the fact that he was an old ned in a potential riot situation does not change anything IMO. The fact he died afterwards is unfortunate, but I do not believe anything should be done against the officers involved and I still think it is irresponsible reporting to suggest he was completely innocent.

 

 

What ****ing grounds do you have for saying that??

 

I agree that the police are doing an incredibly difficult, and probably pretty frightening, job trying to control these @***holes.......that does not excuse what looks to have happened here.

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Theres too much hearsay with regards to this incident for anyone to say whether he was indeed getting his 'just desserts' or a victim of police 'brutality'. Some say he was just walking home, others that he was involved in the protesting/rioting. Until there is proof that he was involved or not i'll keep an open mind and say 'meh'.

 

Fact is he died of a heart attack later. Could have been brought on by the stress, could have been brought on by his health in general.

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What ****ing grounds do you have for saying that??

 

I agree that the police are doing an incredibly difficult, and probably pretty frightening, job trying to control these @***holes.......that does not excuse what looks to have happened here.

 

Indeed. I think people are getting a little too hot under the collar without knowing all the facts.

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Buffalo Bill

My first take on the incident was that he seemed to walking awfully close up to the riot police.

 

I'm not saying he deserved to be beaten but why didn't he just keep the hell out of the way?

 

If the answer to that is 'why should he?', then he was either being naive, unlucky or on the wind up.

 

Yes, he was walking away: but to have gotten that close, he also had to head in their direction in the first place.

 

It's a shame the poor guy died, of course.

 

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

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Having just watched the video again, the police make several attempts to get him out of the way. He does not react to any of them. I believe that any innocent person in that situation would have got out of the way as quickly as possible. He did not. I don't know why. Therefore there was a harsh reaction. Maybe too harsh, maybe not. The only suggestion I have is that he was either involved or was deliberately antagonising the police. In which case, he is not particularly innocent.

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Dr. Bapswent
My first take on the incident was that he seemed to walking awfully close up to the riot police.

 

I'm not saying he deserved to be beaten but why didn't he just keep the hell out of the way?

 

If the answer to that is 'why should he?', then he was either being naive, unlucky or on the wind up.

 

Yes, he was walking away: but to have gotten that close, he also had to head in their direction in the first place.

 

It's a shame the poor guy died, of course.

 

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

Exactly.

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Indeed. I think people are getting a little too hot under the collar without knowing all the facts.

 

Actually, that was my first point - that the papers were declaring his innocence without necessarily having the full story. I declared his "guilt" in order to prove my point.

 

Therefore, I won and everyone else is a loser.

 

End of. :sorcerer:

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It's pathetic how some people will just roll over and accept what they're told - until something happens to them of course.

 

Even if the guy was walking slowly to "antagonise" the police. We have laws and codes of conduct for a reason. Otherwise the police could just start slapping whoever they feel like and use the defence they were being "antagonised".

 

Try thinking for a moment.

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Nelly Terraces

The point is, the cops lied and said this incident never took place, even though witnesses said it had. Now this video has come to light showing they were, pardon the pun, telling porkies. Someone's in the doo-doo's now.

 

Have they found out who killed that teacher, Blair Peach, in the 70's yet? They disbanded the SPG soon after, yet nobody was ever brought to justice for his murder.

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Actually, that was my first point - that the papers were declaring his innocence without necessarily having the full story. I declared his "guilt" in order to prove my point.

 

Therefore, I won and everyone else is a loser.

 

End of. :sorcerer:

 

The full story is:

 

The guy was at work during the day - confirmed

He was walking the path he always took home - confirmed

He is walking away from police officers for about 30 seconds with his hands in his pockets - confirmed

A police officer swipes at his legs with a baton then shoves him to the ground - confirmed

He later dies of a heart attack - confirmed

 

 

But they were under a lot of pressure wah wah wah

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As has been stated, none of us know what he was up to / why he was exactly where he was........i still don't think you go and skelp someone with a baton who is walking away with his hands in his pockets.

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I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for this but he was wearing a Millwall top. Millwall and the police aren't exactly great chums. So was he being a little bit cocky at being confronted by riot police and not wanting to show that he was intimidated? These colours don't run etc.

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The point is, the cops lied and said this incident never took place, even though witnesses said it had. Now this video has come to light showing they were, pardon the pun, telling porkies. Someone's in the doo-doo's now.

 

 

Come on now Nelly. They were under a lot of pressure, dealing with a hostile situation. Don't you find it reasonable that a small event like throwing some unarmed man on his face could slip your mind?

 

You know who is to blame? - all those bloody protesters who stopped the man getting medical attention.

 

Oh wait, that was a lie as well.

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It's pathetic how some people will just roll over and accept what they're told - until something happens to them of course.

 

Even if the guy was walking slowly to "antagonise" the police. We have laws and codes of conduct for a reason. Otherwise the police could just start slapping whoever they feel like and use the defence they were being "antagonised".

 

Try thinking for a moment.

 

Of course. But what kind of society goes out of it's way to defend people who antagonise the police? I was brought up to know that if I did something wrong, I got a cuff round the ear or a skelped erse - if not from my parents, from my friends parents. This was enough of a deterrent to stop me doing stuff (mostly). If I know that I can antagonise the police or push them as far as possible with no potential recrimination, what kind of country is it then? What stops people misbehaving then? The answer - fecking nothing.

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The Vulture

Spoke to a colleague at work who is ex Met Police. He said that the Police will have enough evidence to put together what happened to the poor chap as in high risk situations like G20/May Day protests, they have lots of spotters out. These are policeman who have cameras attached to them to record everything that goes on. This is used to build up evidence against protesters.

 

With regards to the event, he said that if that man was just walking home, the Policeman who did it will get sacked. However, there maybe other evidence which could count in the officers favour that has not been released or submitted yet.

 

He also said that the biggest problem the Police have is the left wing media (esp the BBC) who often edit tapes and then broadcast them to make the police seem like the bad guys.

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The Vulture
Of course. But what kind of society goes out of it's way to defend people who antagonise the police? I was brought up to know that if I did something wrong, I got a cuff round the ear or a skelped erse - if not from my parents, from my friends parents. This was enough of a deterrent to stop me doing stuff (mostly). If I know that I can antagonise the police or push them as far as possible with no potential recrimination, what kind of country is it then? What stops people misbehaving then? The answer - fecking nothing.

 

Well we have all seen what happens in Glasgow when a football fan decides to antagonise the Police. Worst I've seen was the semi final vs Aberdeen, people getting nicked for doing absolutely nothing before and during the game.

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Guest Pressleyno1

The murder in Greece was only the beginning, police around the world, won't stop killing!

 

NO JUSTICE - NO PEACE

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Nelly Terraces
Come on now Nelly. They were under a lot of pressure, dealing with a hostile situation. Don't you find it reasonable that a small event like throwing some unarmed man on his face could slip your mind?

 

You know who is to blame? - all those bloody protesters who stopped the man getting medical attention.

 

Oh wait, that was a lie as well.

 

It must have 'slipped their mind'.

 

Though, of course they were, at the time, "under a hail of bottles and bricks". Except they weren't - they must have got 'muddled up'.

 

Those silly old coppers eh?! Still, he was walking in a cocky fashion - bloke deserved it.

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Of course. But what kind of society goes out of it's way to defend people who antagonise the police? I was brought up to know that if I did something wrong, I got a cuff round the ear or a skelped erse - if not from my parents, from my friends parents. This was enough of a deterrent to stop me doing stuff (mostly). If I know that I can antagonise the police or push them as far as possible with no potential recrimination, what kind of country is it then? What stops people misbehaving then? The answer - fecking nothing.

 

Ok, so we've established that the police can take whatever action they choose if somebody antagonises them.

 

Now we just need to confirm what counts as antagonising.

 

I'll start with looking at them funny and singing.

 

You're up.

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Ok, so we've established that the police can take whatever action they choose if somebody antagonises them.

 

Now we just need to confirm what counts as antagonising.

 

I'll start with looking at them funny and singing.

 

You're up.

 

 

Obviously the old chestnut of "slow walking" is a no no as well.:qqb016:

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Ok, so we've established that the police can take whatever action they choose if somebody antagonises them.

 

Now we just need to confirm what counts as antagonising.

 

I'll start with looking at them funny and singing.

 

You're up.

 

Did you hear me say that the police are always right? Didn't think so. Funnily enough, I have also been to many games in glasgow and don't like how the police overreact to away fans. Does that mean they are wrong on every occasion? They have to have some power/right to react otherwise we are livinig in a lawless society where people can do whatever they like.

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deesidejambo

If you think this is bad try having a demo in Italy or Spain. The polis just wade straight in to anyone there. Getting shoved by a copper if you are walking as slow as possible to antagonise them is asking for it.

 

Sad that he died but he has to bear at least some accountability for his own actions in getting pushed. The copper will get fired though.

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Ally Alexander

By the accounts that I have read, Tomlinson had been thrown to the ground by police prior to the attack that was video'd. That could well explain why he was walking slowly and appeared "drunk" in the video.

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Captain Canada

Hitting a guy with his back to you, hands in his pockets and then pushing him onto a concrete pavement is well out of order. Several officers then spent time trying to save his life, if only one of their colleagues hadn't assaulted him in the first place, they'd have been free to do what they were there for i.e. try and control the real protesters.

 

I've no doubt it will all be covered up like the guy they shot in the underground and the other guy they shot because he left the pub carrying a wooden table leg years ago.

 

I'm not anti-police but if they're going to do stuff like this then they need to be held accountable.

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Trying to link the push to a heart attack even minutes later to the standard required in a criminal court (beyond reasonable doubt) would be very very difficult. There have been cases where someone has broken into an elderly person's home to rob them and the fear has brought on a massive heart attack resulting in the accused being convicted of culpable homicide. It is possible but easier to show the link in a case like that.

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If you think this is bad try having a demo in Italy or Spain. The polis just wade straight in to anyone there. Getting shoved by a copper if you are walking as slow as possible to antagonise them is asking for it.

 

Sad that he died but he has to bear at least some accountability for his own actions in getting pushed. The copper will get fired though.

 

I had a season ticket for Malaga for a couple of years and saw some of the best policing I have ever seen. On one occasion a group of away fans tried to attack some yahoo types in the main stand. Did the police arrest them and ban them from football for life? No, they dragged a couple of the culprits to the side, gave them a few wacks with their batons and put them back in their seats. Those guys could have spent the night in the slammer, had a court appearance and then a criminal record for one drunken/heat of the moment mistake. Instead, they woke up with a few bruises no long term damage and a lesson well learnt.

 

Obviously there has to be a line drawn with this stuff, but to my mind this is good policing.

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I No, they dragged a couple of the culprits to the side, gave them a few wacks with their batons and put them back in their seats.

 

Obviously there has to be a line drawn with this stuff, but to my mind this is good policing.

 

Blair Peach?

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Did you hear me say that the police are always right? Didn't think so. Funnily enough, I have also been to many games in glasgow and don't like how the police overreact to away fans. Does that mean they are wrong on every occasion? They have to have some power/right to react otherwise we are livinig in a lawless society where people can do whatever they like.

 

This has got to be one of the most bizarre posts i've read on here! :56:

 

The power they have is the law; the one they're paid to uphold but are also subject to themselves. If they weren't also subject to it, then we'd be living in a...................you've guessed it, a lawless society.......where the police can do whatever they like.

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