tolcross lad Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 It might not have made a difference today. But giving them some action will make a certain difference in the future. I care just as much about where Hearts will be in five years as I do about individual results on any given day. Fair comment but I want 3rd place for the club for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 today was the ideal time to give mcgowan a game imo! we played today without a natural centre half, what signal does that send to a young lad? For all I like Csaba I am thoroughly fed up of seeing players being played out of position at Hearts. We see it all too often and whilst in the days of Levein it was excusable due to the squad size, this hasn?t been a valid reason for years now. You can get away with occasionally playing players out of position but to do it again and again is nonsensical as luck is not a bottomless urn... Having said this today was NOT the ideal time to blood a CB. The ideal time would have been Zaliukas previous suspension earlier in the season when Berra was still around to help him through... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Csaba is clearly cautious by nature & goes for the more experienced option almost everytime however he has recently spoken highly of McGowan & Templeton recently so iam sure they will get their chance eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mintmyster Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I think everybody agrees it's frustrating to only get a point today, but in hindsight we were awful and a point each was probably a fair reflection. For me only Eggert, Wallace, Neilson and Nade deserved pass marks today. But, with the trials of Lith centre half (despite what I said about Eggert, he's not a centre half) and Barrett, and the return of Tullberg and Miko - and hopefully the introduction albeit sparingly of Husband and Templeton - Csaba is moving forward. Two of our youngsters, Glen and Thompson were poor today so I don't think another one or two untried first team players would have helped. IMO, stupidity from Nade in the centre of the field when a simple ball to Driver was on ultimately cost us the goal. Obviously Bruno agreed as he just about lamped him after the goal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboJen Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Csaba has spent a large part of his career working with youths and has turned our incredibly frail (no pun intented) team into European contenders in a few months. I'll trust his judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolcross lad Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I think everybody agrees it's frustrating to only get a point today, but in hindsight we were awful and a point each was probably a fair reflection. For me only Eggert, Wallace, Neilson and Nade deserved pass marks today. But, with the trials of Lith centre half (despite what I said about Eggert, he's not a centre half) and Barrett, and the return of Tullberg and Miko - and hopefully the introduction albeit sparingly of Husband and Templeton - Csaba is moving forward. Two of our youngsters, Glen and Thompson were poor today so I don't think another one or two untried first team players would have helped. IMO, stupidity from Nade in the centre of the field when a simple ball to Driver was on ultimately cost us the goal. Obviously Bruno agreed as he just about lamped him after the goal! I agree apart from missing out Obua who was the MOM .In sec V, I was able to again take in his performance down the line.He is definitely a class above the SPL and it was his cross that led to our goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo@HMFC Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 We're going to progress. You can't expect Csaba to turn Hearts around totally in one season. Everytime we lose just one game OR even draw, everyone points the finger at him and/or a lith. We (and the players) should just put it behind us and look toward the Dundee game which is a big must win. Stop pointing out Csaba's minimal mistakes with the powerpuff subs we have and players who struggle in other positions. Agreed. Last season we finished 8th, but with roughly the same squad of players, we are currently in 3rd this season. I'm a fan of Csaba, and would like to see him with us for another few years. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 McGowan and Templeton would be better off leaving. Totally agree. If they can't get a game in this Hearts side and numpties like Neilson are moved into McGowan's position then they should look elsewhere. If they are deemed not good enough to play in this SPL (which I can't believe) then either they are pretty hopeless or someone doesn't know what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Both McGowan & Templeton are tied down on deals so Hearts control their futures. Iam sure Csaba is fully aware of their capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolcross lad Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Totally agree. If they can't get a game in this Hearts side and numpties like Neilson are moved into McGowan's position then they should look elsewhere. If they are deemed not good enough to play in this SPL (which I can't believe) then either they are pretty hopeless or someone doesn't know what they are doing. Do you understand that McGowan may not be of SPL standard?Have you seen him play ?Against whom?What are the qualities that he has that Robbie Neilson does not have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Both McGowan & Templeton are tied down on deals so Hearts control their futures. Iam sure Csaba is fully aware of their capabilities. Yep, just Copil and Rapnik who made such an impact. Csab clearly doesn't rate McGowan as he isplaing a promiing central midfielder and a gash right back ahead of him. Templeton's situation is a lot less clear but it is worrying in my opinion that at his age he isn't already getting a start in this pish poor Hearts team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Do you understand that McGowan may not be of SPL standard?Have you seen him play ?Against whom?What are the qualities that he has that Robbie Neilson does not have? The ability to control a ball, pass a ball and win a header without giving away a foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Both Copil & Rapnik were at or approaching the end of their contract & it also seems Hearts hadn't actually paid up for either, both returned to their original club & immediately transferred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Both Copil & Rapnik were at or approaching the end of their contract & it also seems Hearts hadn't actually paid up for either, both returned to their original club & immediately transferred. Aye, more class management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The ability to control a ball, pass a ball and win a header without giving away a foul. Watching Neilson adn Thompson playing side by side has got to be one of the low points in recent times. From what I have seen of McGowan he is a miles better player than either will ever be yet we leave him stewing. If Iwas him I'd look elsewhere immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 What kind of standard are they at? embdy have an informed opinion? An informed opinion definitely would be nice. I wonder if any of those campaigning for their inclusion have actually seen them play regularly or if they're just going on what they've seen from Hearts World highlights? Not intended to be a snippy comment, I'm genuinely interested to know why they're so convinced that this is the right time for these players. The theory that they have to be better than what we're currently using seems a bit presumptuous and flaky to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 In Copil & Rapnik case it seems we just handed them back instead of paying whatever we were due on them & giving them new deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 McGowan is as versatile a player as Jonsson, lack of reserve games recently certainly isn't helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolcross lad Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The ability to control a ball, pass a ball and win a header without giving away a foul. Fair enough .Is your assessment based on what?Presumably you are observing the players in training and minor games?What are you seeing that cl is not seeing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 An informed opinion definitely would be nice. I wonder if any of those campaigning for their inclusion have actually seen them play regularly or if they're just going on what they've seen from Hearts World highlights? Not intended to be a snippy comment, I'm genuinely interested to know why they're so convinced that this is the right time for these players. The theory that they have to be better than what we're currently using seems a bit presumptuous and flaky to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Thomson, Jonnson and Glen all started.Wallace also started. The rest of the team aren't exactly old experienced players. Too many youngsters is not always a good idea. Putting in McGowan today may not have been the best idea when other youngsters were already in crucial positions. But none of them made any meaningful impact. In fact they were pretty well Sh**e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Csaba met some fans a few months back: the meeting when he criticised Glen's attitude, I mean. I can't remember what he said about the quality of players in the youth system in general - did he question it or praise it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Csaba met some fans a few months back: the meeting when he criticised Glen's attitude, I mean. I can't remember what he said about the quality of players in the youth system in general - did he question it or praise it? Question it. Privately he has much bigger concerns despite some of the usual publicly heard niceties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 lack of reserve games recently certainly isn't helping. Aye right, Miko ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Miko & Kingston are established players however the youngsters need reserve games to stake their claim & make an impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Take MacDonald & Thomson both are 22+ and Csaba seems to trust that extra 2-3 years maturity & experience over the younger players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Take MacDonald & Thomson both are 22+ and Csaba seems to trust that extra 2-3 years maturity & experience over the younger players. Hopefully the spotlight will fall on him very soon if that is the case. Thomson is a dreadful footballer and should never wear a Hearts first team strip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The guy is a squad player & only fills in every now & then, it's not as if he's cost us many / any games or goals, for all his limitations the Buddies rarely threaten down our right flank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Palmer Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Question it. Privately he has much bigger concerns despite some of the usual publicly heard niceties. Yet you are looking for young players to make the step up (McGowan, Templeton). If Csaba has questioned the quality of said young players then that is why they have not been utilised in the first team. Glen did not do much in the match before going off and yet people have been clamouring for him to get a start.... I'm also fed up with 'being played out of position' bollocks that a lot of people seem to use in order to be critical. I think it is a good thing that players are interchangeable especially def/mid and less so mid/att. Where would we be if Eggy wasn't able to play all the different positions we've asked of him? Just my thoughts, I'll probably have more later but if you want to disagree I won't cry. (I'm a bit wasted at the moment so please be gentle!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Reluctance to play young players, to the point that he will move senior players out of position first. Total lack of tactical flexibility, never changes formation and only makes like for like subs. On balance, the impact Laszlo has had at Hearts remains positive, but the two aspects raised above to continue to give me doubts that we will continue to progress under his stewardship. it was 1 game mate, we're still in 3. We have a great chance to finsh 3rd if we beat Dundee Utd, all is not lost. As for your point about tactics I agree he is no tactician, he doesn't need to be though in the league we play in IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 An informed opinion definitely would be nice. I wonder if any of those campaigning for their inclusion have actually seen them play regularly or if they're just going on what they've seen from Hearts World highlights? Not intended to be a snippy comment, I'm genuinely interested to know why they're so convinced that this is the right time for these players. The theory that they have to be better than what we're currently using seems a bit presumptuous and flaky to me. Snippy comment aside, that is not quite accurate though is it? Hearts have invested heavily into an academy, the rationale for that is so we can supply our own. Pre-academy we would generally replace a sold senior player with a player from the youth team. Often times, fans that go to the first team. In those situations we looked to the next in line and the next in line for Hearts at centre half is McGowan. Instead of giving him the chance (bearing in mind he played twice last season) we are playing anybody and everybody at centre half. That says enough about the lad. He needs to leave as he is either not good enough or not trusted by the coaching regime. Either ways, it doesn't say much about us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT's & Irons Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 It seems to me that the players can get themselves up for bigger games, like last weeks, but still believe they are too good for the likes of St Midden. We are very unpredictable but, as I've said before on ere we are better than we were last season, we will finish higher than we did last season and that is almost entirely down to the manager. I reckon, come the end of the season we will have a major clearout and the real time to judge his royal Csabaness will come in the early weeks of next season. Till then keep smilin dudes. We didn't lose any ground on our main rivals, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I don't understand why various people keep saying McGowan & others have to leave? In McGowan's case he's on a long term contract and Csaba has publicly stated he's one of his best prospects and now a part of the first team squad along with Templeton - just because he hasn't played them yet could simply mean that Csaba has higher standards & expectations of 'readiness' for the first team than his predecessors had which isn't a bad thing in my opinion, if a year down the line the young players still aren't featuring much then yes they should start to consider their futures however both Berra & Gordon barely featured before they were 20 years old and both were much more solid & reliable performers when they came in at an older age than Wallace, Elliot, Driver, Mole, Glen & Jonsson who all played at a much younger age but have proven to be a lot more inconsistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Both Copil & Rapnik were at or approaching the end of their contract & it also seems Hearts hadn't actually paid up for either, both returned to their original club & immediately transferred. Haven't seen that reported anywhere. I recall rumours when Rapnik signed that China stumped up the money for his transfer:biggrin2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I don't understand why various people keep saying McGowan & others have to leave? In McGowan's case he's on a long term contract and Csaba has publicly stated he's one of his best prospects and now a part of the first team squad along with Templeton - just because he hasn't played them yet could simply mean that Csaba has higher standards & expectations of 'readiness' for the first team than his predecessors had which isn't a bad thing in my opinion, if a year down the line the young players still aren't featuring much then yes they should start to consider their futures however both Berra & Gordon barely featured before they were 20 years old and both were much more solid & reliable performers when they came in at an older age than Wallace, Elliot, Driver, Mole, Glen & Jonsson who all played at a much younger age but have proven to be a lot more inconsistent. Berra made 12 appearances before he turned 20, despite being up against Pressley and Webster. Whenever one of those was missing Levein gave Berra experience. Alan McLaren had 64, by the way. Didn't do him any harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Reluctance to play young players, to the point that he will move senior players out of position first. Total lack of tactical flexibility, never changes formation and only makes like for like subs. I think he will give Glen a run in the team as he did with Mole. If Glen is a success and starts banging the goals in, by the time we get back round to playing hibs then maybe he will try another one of the youths in the 1st team. Making 3rd place is the most important thing we have to do. The youths will just have to be patient. He is doing ok with the formation he chooses to play, we are 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo1874 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Reluctance to play young players, to the point that he will move senior players out of position first. Total lack of tactical flexibility, never changes formation and only makes like for like subs. On balance, the impact Laszlo has had at Hearts remains positive, but the two aspects raised above to continue to give me doubts that we will continue to progress under his stewardship. Aye you perfect mate + never made mistake huh Would you rather go back to where we were last season, or where we are now I think you should have a little think about that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 We DID play 2 inexperienced centre halfs - with no height - against Mehmet and Hamilton. He has to introduce McGowan alongside Karipidis and let them develop as a partnership...chopping and changing every week will get us nowhere. That is where Laszlo is quite simply wrong. Laszlo has engendered a better spirit at the club and we do have good individual players like Balogh, Wallace, Johnsson, Karipidis, Aguiar, Glen and Driver....but we are , I'm sorry to say, NOT a good team. The only reason we are 3rd is because outwith the OF, every other team is evenly matched and are cutting each others throats. If we finish 3rd it will be a good achievement...but nothing more...and it will be a totally pointless execrise entering the Europa League unless we strengthen. Selling all the above mentioned players to keep a badly managed club afloat will achieve nought...and in these circumstances it would be better if we did not qualify for Europe. Laszlo has got to learn quickly and the change should have been a striker on at half time for Glen. The 4-1-4-1 simply DOES NOT work and it makes for dull football. It's all very well saying people would not criticise if we had won but the bottom line is we DIDN'T win. Nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboruss Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 So the brilliant Kickback tacticians think it was a better idea to play two inexperienced centre halfs against Mehmet & Hamilton, two of the tallest, most physical and experienced forwards? Thank ****** you're not picking the team. :stroker: Your point is very valid and I agree to a point, however, why not play Mroviec who is 6' 3", GOD in the air and was playing CH in training all week (and looking good) and keep our limited but very commited captain in his best position? Alternatively if experience is the prerequisite, sign, then use a 17 cap Lithuanian Centre Half in the centre half position! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallhmfc Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Reluctance to play young players, to the point that he will move senior players out of position first. Total lack of tactical flexibility, never changes formation and only makes like for like subs. On balance, the impact Laszlo has had at Hearts remains positive, but the two aspects raised above to continue to give me doubts that we will continue to progress under his stewardship. Yep i agree- he seems to trust the more seasoned pro`s rather than play some youngster in his decired position. I also think that starting Obua wide left in place of Driver slows down Drivers delivery in to the box as he requires an extra touch to balance himself-- this may get better with time---- Why not start either Miko or Chesny wide right just to balance the shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Aye you perfect mate + never made mistake huh Would you rather go back to where we were last season, or where we are now I think you should have a little think about that one I would agree that I'm not far short of perfect yes..... Everyone makes mistakes. Csaba is not and should not be above criticism, however if you had read all of the original post you will note that I said that the impact of Csaba has been positive. There should always be room for constructive criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 We DID play 2 inexperienced centre halfs - with no height - against Mehmet and Hamilton. He has to introduce McGowan alongside Karipidis and let them develop as a partnership...chopping and changing every week will get us nowhere. That is where Laszlo is quite simply wrong. Laszlo has engendered a better spirit at the club and we do have good individual players like Balogh, Wallace, Johnsson, Karipidis, Aguiar, Glen and Driver....but we are , I'm sorry to say, NOT a good team. The only reason we are 3rd is because outwith the OF, every other team is evenly matched and are cutting each others throats. If we finish 3rd it will be a good achievement...but nothing more...and it will be a totally pointless execrise entering the Europa League unless we strengthen. Selling all the above mentioned players to keep a badly managed club afloat will achieve nought...and in these circumstances it would be better if we did not qualify for Europe. Laszlo has got to learn quickly and the change should have been a striker on at half time for Glen. The 4-1-4-1 simply DOES NOT work and it makes for dull football. It's all very well saying people would not criticise if we had won but the bottom line is we DIDN'T win. Excellent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Bottom line is Csaba is getting more right than wrong and given his circumstances is currently doing a better job than Levein or Calderwood who have had a lot longer to fashion their teams to the job at hand, Csaba's also had to shed more players & sign fewer making his 'achievement' thus far even more impressive even if the football hasn't always been great to watch...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The team is winning in spite of the team selection/tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The team is winning in spite of the team selection/tactics. Winning occasionally despite the selection/tactics. We have won 12 out of 26 league games and 1 of 3 cup games scoring 30 goals in 29 games. It ain't great that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Bottom line is Csaba is getting more right than wrong and given his circumstances Your on good form tonight Charlie boy. He's certainly up against it "given his circumstances" not that we haven't been telling you for a couple of years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Winning occasionally despite the selection/tactics. We have won 12 out of 26 league games and 1 of 3 cup games scoring 30 goals in 29 games. It ain't great that's for sure. Calderwood has won 11 league games , Levein only 10 .... despite their selections & tactics ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Your on good form tonight Charlie boy. He's certainly up against "given his circumstances" not that we haven't been telling you for a couple of years now. Csaba's 'circumstances' compared to his main rivals are much less time in the job, an inherited squad & reducing budget versus Levein & Tangoman's squads of their choosing / creation over 2-4 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Calderwood has won 11 league games , Levein only 10 .... despite their selections & tactics ...... As I've said to you many many times I couldn't give a flying feck what Aberdeen or D.Utd are doing though it is a fact they are getting better value for money than we are. Think you forgot the fact Utd got to the League Cup semi and Aberdeen are still in the Scottish Cup as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Csaba's 'circumstances' compared to his main rivals are much less time in the job, an inherited squad & reducing budget versus Levein & Tangoman's squads of their choosing / creation over 2-4 seasons. Well I'm sure by next season Csaba's circumstances will be very different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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