Coco Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Jeez your some Hearts supporter that you agree with the wrong decisions that lead to the incorrect sending off of a Hearts player simply because for your own reasons you decide you don't like him very much - it is not my opinion that the match officials were wrong - independant video evidence shows this to be the case. You are suffering from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias I think. I assume that if independent video evidence cleared Zaliukas that his red card was rescinded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 What is it about Zaliukas threads that turns everybody into a bellend - chucking around huge generalisations, accusing anybody who takes the opposite side of being unreasonable or worse, and sticking religiously to the point of view that reflects their opinions on Romanov? Some of this post is true, some isnt Many would accuse me of imposing my negative views of Romanov and aligning them with a negative view to Zaliukas (on the presumption that I have nothing positive to say about anything Lithuanian) That wouldnt explain why I backed Velicka even before his last run of goals that saw him transferred away from us. My comments are purely and simply on a player I view as unreliable in a crucial position of the team It just so happens that the last 2 seasons have statistically shown that we have more clean sheets when he is not in the team And I have given Zaliukas some credit this season - when he went on a run of around 4 games without a ridiculous mistake Its ironic - at any other time in Hearts history we wouldnt be having this debate. Everyone would accept that he was probably not the best person at the club to partner Berra. I have never seen so many convoluted attempts to twist and manipulate facts. I think the agenda based posts on Zaliukas are those which defend him to the hilt and suggest that clean sheets dont tell the story. Zaliukas is basically an ok centre half when the game is in front of him and he can pass the ball well. Other than that he is more of a liability than any other centre half at the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheiky Baby Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Not been a fan of him tbh. I'd still rather have Eggert in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 If Berra gets a transfer to the EPL next week this could be a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 If Berra gets a transfer to the EPL next week this could be a moot point. Yes I agree, if Berra leaves then with Karipidis settled and playing well in midfield Zaliukas-Jonsson would be the best option at centre back. However, if Berra does not leave next week ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Zaliukas is a good defender, gives his all and at times is quite amusing. The unwarranted hatred makes me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Surely it is better for Hearts to play EJ ? He has proven to be a very good CH and as he is actually our player it makes more sense to play him more reguarly and increase his transfer value. Playing Zaliukas in the hope of getting a big transfer fee for FBK doesn't float my boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Surely it is better for Hearts to play EJ ? He has proven to be a very good CH and as he is actually our player it makes more sense to play him more reguarly and increase his transfer value. Playing Zaliukas in the hope of getting a big transfer fee for FBK doesn't float my boat. is that why zaliukas is in the team? to showcase him? really? could it not be something far less complicated like..... the manager picking the best man for the job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 is that why zaliukas is in the team? to showcase him? really? could it not be something far less complicated like..... the manager picking the best man for the job? Dont be silly, we should chuck all our young players in at the same time and then berate them until they are scared to perform. At least Zaliukas has developed a thick skin with all the abuse he has had and can handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 That's an argument against taking any players on loan from anybody DH as any increase in player value benefits the lending club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Dont be silly, we should chuck all our young players in at the same time and then berate them until they are scared to perform. At least Zaliukas has developed a thick skin with all the abuse he has had and can handle it. yeah, good on the zal for being able to cope with it. he's still got some rough edges but he's improving all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 is that why zaliukas is in the team? to showcase him? really? I don't think it's even in question that's why he was brought over in the first place. He was brough over at a time when we didn't need any CM'ers of CH's yet he managed to play several games in both positions regardless of how bad he was. could it not be something far less complicated like..... the manager picking the best man for the job? How can a CH who makes so many basic mistakes be the best man for the job ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallschunkychicken Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 a total moo point . . . celtic felt no need to push on having already scored two goals and had a man advantage, we posed NO threat at ANY time. if you are honestly blaming that defeat on zaliukas you clearly know nothing about football and are just pointing the finger at a player you dont like! there were another 10 players on the park who were equally at fault (we didnt have a shot on target until the 78th minute!) Didn't concede against Aberdeen after he was sent off. firstly he shouldnt have been sent off wasnt at the game, but seem to remember that the goal was more our defence collectively's inability to clear a ball at several occasions Cow's opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I don't think it's even in question that's why he was brought over in the first place. He was brough over at a time when we didn't need any CM'ers of CH's yet he managed to play several games in both positions regardless of how bad he was. How can a CH who makes so many basic mistakes be the best man for the job ? Because Karipidis is a midfielder and Jonsson is still 20. Dont we have the best defence in the league? Im embarrassed for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 That's an argument against taking any players on loan from anybody DH as any increase in player value benefits the lending club. Agreed. But the time comes when you have to think about No.1 (Hearts in this case) and playing Zaliukas over EJ is no longer doing us any real favours. The lad has proven he's more than capable, so it's time he was given a regular that position to boost his value. Agree ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Because Karipidis is a midfielder and Jonsson is still 20. Dont we have the best defence in the league? Im embarrassed for you We don't have the best defence in the league. And now I'm embarrassed for you. And what does EJ's age have to do with it ? Alan McLaren and Gary Naysmith did more than ok. Berra too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I think Berra is more likely going to move soon so it's probably going to be the case of zaliukas & another, most likely jonsson ahead of rapnik & mcgowan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 We don't have the best defence in the league. And now I'm embarrassed for you. Second best then. As a defender, he is tough and has ability, unfortunately his concentration lets him down at times. This is something a manager can work with. I like Marius. Csaba likes Marius. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I think Berra is more likely going to move soon so it's probably going to be the case of zaliukas & another, most likely jonsson ahead of rapnik & mcgowan. More than likely. Which is more reason to continue playing EJ at CH to give him more experience there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Second best then. As a defender, he is tough and has ability, unfortunately his concentration lets him down at times. This is something a manager can work with. I like Marius. Csaba likes Marius. Deal with it. Which has cost us goals. EJ is a better CH. Deal with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 We don't have the best defence in the league. And now I'm embarrassed for you. And what does EJ's age have to do with it ? Alan McLaren and Gary Naysmith did more than ok. Berra too. Berra was not twenty and was built better. Csaba is dealing with zaliukas-Jonsson the same way that Levien dealt with mckenna-webster playing alongside Pressley. Naysmith was a full back. Would happily play Jonsson at full back. Im sure you have played football before and therefor you will understand that there is a lot more responsibility for a centre half than a full back, but we can pretend that you are stupid and dont realise this if you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Which has cost us goals. EJ is a better CH. Deal with that. Opinion's. I dont agree with playing a 20 year old boy 40 games a season at centre half. Look's like me and Csaba agree. No wait not Csaba its all MAd VaLD!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Zal got sent off against Celtic for conceding a penalty, but we still haven't conceded when he's not on the park. Does this mean that if we have a penalty awarded against us the 1st thing Shaba should do is hook Zal? or does he have to be sent off for this witchcraft to work? I think when Zaliukas makes mistakes we should castigate him but when other players make mistakes then we should forgive them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Second best then. With most of our clean sheets / periods without a goal being conceded (eg the stats which are primary in a good defensive record) occuring when Zaliukas isnt in the team..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I think when Zaliukas makes mistakes we should castigate him but when other players make mistakes then we should forgive them. You mean like when Neilson makes a mistake....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 With most of our clean sheets / periods without a goal being conceded (eg the stats which are primary in a good defensive record) occuring when Zaliukas isnt in the team..... I would disagree with that assumption. So Marius doesnt deserve any credit for our good defensive record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 You mean like when Neilson makes a mistake....? Neilsonukas is a blight on the club imo. Csaba only picks him so he is in the shop window for Kaunas, it is not because he thinks he can do a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I think Csaba is clever enough to work out his best defensive options any given week, of course we all have our opinions & preferences on players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I would disagree with that assumption. ? Its not an assumption. It is a fact Zaliukas deserves credit for the handful of games he has performed well in without making a significant contribution to a goal being conceded He deserves no credit for the long periods of time we havent conceded a goal without him on the pitch. Given the main rider in having a good overall defensive record is not conceding goals it looks fairly obvious to me that our defensive stats (which you are relying upon) have benefited and improved when he has not been in the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Its not an assumption. It is a fact Zaliukas deserves credit for the handful of games he has performed well in without making a significant contribution to a goal being conceded He deserves no credit for the long periods of time we havent conceded a goal without him on the pitch. Given the main rider in having a good overall defensive record is not conceding goals it looks fairly obvious to me that our defensive stats (which you are relying upon) have benefited and improved when he has not been in the team I cant take your word for it, thats not how facts work. Prove to me that the number of minutes when Zal has been on the field this season that we havent conceded a goal is less than when we have. For example if he plays for 80 minutes and we have not conceded a goal but then the opposition score, this is 80 minutes that Zaluikas has played without conceding a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 The main thrust of this thread is that some fans have superior defensive knowledge, logic & intellect to the manager who is deficient in this area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 The main thrust of this thread is that some fans have superior defensive knowledge, logic & intellect to the manager who is deficient in this area? As always Charlie, as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 The main thrust of this thread is that some fans have superior defensive knowledge, logic & intellect to the manager who is deficient in this area? Correct. we should chuck jonsson in for 40 games a season and see if he sinks or swims. Its like russian roullete but with players. All good managers do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I think Jonsson, Zaliukas & Berra whilst they remain at Hearts will all feature most weeks as Csaba seems to like & trust these players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I think Jonsson, Zaliukas & Berra whilst they remain at Hearts will all feature most weeks as Csaba seems to like & trust these players. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 The main thrust of this thread is that some fans have superior defensive knowledge, logic & intellect to the manager who is deficient in this area? Yes and some fans have never commented on some regular players:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Berra was not twenty and was built better. Csaba is dealing with zaliukas-Jonsson the same way that Levien dealt with mckenna-webster playing alongside Pressley. Naysmith was a full back. Would happily play Jonsson at full back. Im sure you have played football before and therefor you will understand that there is a lot more responsibility for a centre half than a full back, but we can pretend that you are stupid and dont realise this if you like? Berra was 21 when he became a regular in 2006/2007 playing the majority of games that season. Jonsson turns 21 this year. He has proven he can play at CH and play well, yet you are trying to justify playing Zaliukas who, by your own admission, lacks concentration. If your good enough, you old enough and EJ has proven he's good enough to deserve a run in the team. We were also better defensively last season when Zaliukas wasn't in the team. Now...... I'm away to pretend I'm stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 The main thrust of this thread is that some fans have superior defensive knowledge, logic & intellect to the manager who is deficient in this area? The alternative being never to debate the flaws of a player selected in a football team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 So........ No more discussions/debates about players now. Mods - take note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 We can all express our preferences Jammy however the manager is aware of all factors of a players form, capability, mindset, stats etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 So........ No more discussions/debates about players now. Mods - take note. We should all moan for two years about the manager having autonomy and then when this is acheived, still accuse players of being shoehorned into the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 We can all express our preferences Jammy however the manager is aware of all factors of a players form, capability, mindset, stats etc. Have you never thought one player should be playing ahead of another ? Robbie Neilson for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 We should all moan for two years about the manager having autonomy and then when this is acheived, still accuse players of being shoehorned into the side. I have simply said I would prefere EJ to play ahead of Zaliukas as I think he's a better player and it's more beneficial to Hearts to have their own players playing ahead of loanee's. If they're good enough obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Have you never thought one player should be playing ahead of another ? Robbie Neilson for example. Yeah look where that got you Charlie, Neilson is playing really well now. Clearly Csaba was right all along and your just a silly fan who has never watched a Hearts training session nor overseen one as manager but you clearly still think you know what is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Surely it is better for Hearts to play EJ ? He has proven to be a very good CH and as he is actually our player it makes more sense to play him more reguarly and increase his transfer value. Playing Zaliukas in the hope of getting a big transfer fee for FBK doesn't float my boat. So he is not picked on ability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 So he is not picked on ability? I suppose we'll see what happens when he is eligible to play again. Do you think EJ deserves to be dropped ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I suppose we'll see what happens when he is eligible to play again. Do you think EJ deserves to be dropped ? Hard one to judge. I am not suprised you have forgotten that Zaliukas was excellent in the biggest match of our season against Hibernian in the Scottish cup. Jonsson was equally good against Killie. If Zal is picked i have no doubts that you dont believe it is the managers decision and for me this makes you deluded or like one of those 30 something women that never trust men because there ex husband slept with a hooker 8 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I've complained about players performances, form & mistakes and stated my preference in team line up threads but i don't criticise selections as the manager to make his decision of the best he has available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hard one to judge. I am not suprised you have forgotten that Zaliukas was excellent in the biggest match of our season against Hibernian in the Scottish cup. Jonsson was equally good against Killie. If Zal is picked i have no doubts that you dont believe it is the managers decision and for me this makes you deluded or like one of those 30 something women that never trust men because there ex husband slept with a hooker 8 years ago. Have I forgotten how well Zal has played in a handful of games this season ? Not at all. But would I prefere a Hearts player who is equally as good if not better to be playing instead then of course I would. We could do with raising the profile and value of a player Hearts will be able to profit from as opposed to a player another Club ? EJ deserves to keep his place imo just like I thought Chesney deserved to keep his place v Killie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojim52 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 To be fair I think Zal knew he was making mistakes and has stated so, and tried to improve. What more can you ask for, other than he has tried to improve. If only Stewart would do the same he could be a great player for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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