BBC Radio News

[d(>_<)b]

Sorry to be dim. But having read the OP.

 

Who made the reported profit. UKIO or Ubig?

[Stuart Lyon]

Time for a cull of Santa's sleigh draggers methinks - certainly one of them could be sacrificed.

[The Don]

did the auld LF fella tell you about him finding a clone on this site mate? looks like darth gay, dark lord of the sith has been doing his evil deeds on here too.

 

Yeah got his pm about it m8.

 

Just when you thought you were out, sir gay pulls you back in

[Victorian]

Yeah got his pm about it m8.

 

Just when you thought you were out, sir gay pulls you back in

the only thing sir gay pulls is his gentleman pleaser. he'll no be pulling me anywhere.

 

it's cool anyhoo, dexter the hammer of the hobos has sorted it, innit?

[David Brent]

Excuse me!

 

Last week on here we were being warned by all the serious posters that the reason the players weren't paid was because UBIG/UKIO were going t!ts up.

Can any of these fellahs come back on and confirm that a 20 million profit means that UBIG/UKIO are still going t!ts up please?

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

the only thing sir gay pulls is his gentleman pleaser. he'll no be pulling me anywhere.

 

it's cool anyhoo, dexter the hammer of the hobos has sorted it, innit?

 

 

 

And not a word of thanks for yours truly for being your wingman on this occasion.

Bit like yer in the beer buying stakes eh.............

Non existent.

[Victorian]

And not a word of thanks for yours truly for being your wingman on this occasion.

Bit like yer in the beer buying stakes eh.............

Non existent.

i think.... no i know that i did thank you, you grumpy auld goat ye. i'll just add another pint to the tally then.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

i think.... no i know that i did thank you, you grumpy auld goat ye. i'll just add another pint to the tally then.

 

 

 

Yawn Yawn feckin Yawn :xmasunsure:

[Pistol1874]

It is possible to make balance sheet (which is a statement of assets, liabilities and capital) adjustments to show a profit.

 

Our current problems have less to do with this and more to do with cashflow.

 

If we got Cristiano Ronaldo on a free transfer, we would acquire an Asset worth ?60m. Great.

 

Our cashflow though, would immediately be worse off by ?120,000 per week though because we'd need to pay him.

[fc-1874]

It is possible to make balance sheet (which is a statement of assets, liabilities and capital) adjustments to show a profit.

 

Our current problems have less to do with this and more to do with cashflow.

 

If we got Cristiano Ronaldo on a free transfer, we would acquire an Asset worth ?60m. Great.

 

Our cashflow though, would immediately be worse off by ?120,000 per week though because we'd need to pay him.

I despair

[Pistol1874]

I despair

Because?

[dixie]

While its true that ukio have declared profits in excess of EUR 27.7m for the 11 month period, I'm pretty sure though that EUR 8m of that was from the proceeds of property disposals in Russia earlier in the summer.

[Mr Sifter]

As far as I am aware I havent heard anything about Ubig/Ukio going into Admin.

 

I have heard about hearts going into admin though.

 

Frankly I dont give a **** about Ukio or Ubig.

 

Hearts are an entirely seperate entity, and my only concern about the above companies is the affect it has on hearts. A 20 million pound profit, or loss for that matter could have a great effect for hearts, or a disastarous effect for hearts.

 

Tbh some hearts supporters need to concern themselves with hearts, and hearts alone rather than celebrate a profit from ubig which they have absolutely no idea how it affects hearts.

 

Hard to get you prancer, you're a tough cookie to work out. So you have heard we may go bust. Now assuming you care passionately about the hearts, surely this recent news can ONLY be good? Without wantin the actual figures laid out before your very eyes, cant you even allow yourself to accept that this MIGHT be, SOMEWHERE along the line, a positive little titbit on the rollercoaster ride that is Hearts? .....or it could be ****e news, im no too sure. Prancer's got me confused now....

[Pistol1874]

I despair

Can you clear up my misunderstanding for me please?

[adayinmay]

Just heard on the news quick bit saying UBIG have made 20 million last 6 months? Great news, put's all the doomers to bed.:xmasgrin:

 

?10.5m of that will be the Gordon and Bednar transfers!

[fc-1874]

It is possible to make balance sheet (which is a statement of assets, liabilities and capital) adjustments to show a profit.

 

 

 

That is pessimism. Of which I'm tired. I try not to be scared of the day I haven't seen.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Pistol - we don't count players as assets on our balance sheet now.

[Pistol1874]

That is pessimism. Of which I'm tired. I try not to be scared of the day I haven't seen.

Mate, wasn't intended as pessimism, I'm the eternal optimist type of Hearts fan, there would be no point in being one otherwise!!

[Pistol1874]

Pistol - we don't count players as assets on our balance sheet now.

Geoff, I wasn't aware of that, thanks.

I was only really trying to contribute to the thread by highlighting the difference between profit and cashflow and even something which looks amazing on the face of it could actually lead to more demands on a limited cash blance (notwithstanding uplift in merchandising etc). I have not done that very well it would seem!:xmasunsure::xmasgrin:

[ray-]

Just heard on the news quick bit saying UBIG have made 20 million last 6 months? Great news, put's all the doomers to bed.:xmasgrin:

 

Along with the good news came the not so good news that another team's players, under UBIG's control, are having greater problems than Hearts players, getting paid.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Some people really need to stop posting when they know nothing about the context.

 

A profit for Ubig alone means absolutely nothing to hearts, it could be positive, it could be negative.

 

Its not "great news", it isnt "bad news".

 

We can only decide this when we know the full facts about how it came about.

 

As said the profit could come from good trading, it could come from shafting hearts.

 

We simply dont know.

 

If you would do us all a favour and apply this criteria to your own posts I am sure we would all be very grateful.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

?10.5m of that will be the Gordon and Bednar transfers!

 

No, it won't. Why make such a stupid statement?

[Dunks]

Sorry to be dim. But having read the OP.

 

Who made the reported profit. UKIO or Ubig?

 

It's already in this thread:

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37342#post678873

[Guest casper]

Ok maybe I'm thick, but how do they make 20mill by shafting Hearts, when everyone tells us we have no money? IF they had called in 20mill of our debt that would be bad news, but we would also be out of business. We ain't,... well not the last I heard anyway.

 

I don't know but what if ?9M of that ?20M was the Craig Gordon transfer money.

It would not be good news for Hearts if that ?9M went on Ubigs profits rather than reducing Hearts debts.

[siegementality]

Does all this profit mean that they'll pay the Ripo staff now?

[marshallschunkychicken]

I don't know but what if ?9M of that ?20M was the Craig Gordon transfer money.

It would not be good news for Hearts if that ?9M went on Ubigs profits rather than reducing Hearts debts.

 

Craig Gordon was sold in August 2007. So was Roman Bednar. This period relates to January 2008 to November 2008.

[Guest casper]

Craig Gordon was sold in August 2007. So was Roman Bednar. This period relates to January 2008 to November 2008.

 

Maybe the money was not transferred to Ubig until this year though.

I'm not saying this is the case, I'm just agreeing with others that good Ubig results might not be good for Hearts.

[Mr Quagmire]

You need to analyse the information in far more detail before you can say great news.

 

Yes it sounds encouraging, but for all we know they have made a profit by forcing hearts to repay the debt (in accounting ways).

 

I.e Ukio could loan hearts 20 million at higher interest than before to pay Ubig.

 

Thus whilst I doubt its the case, I wouldnt get yourself too excited.

 

You also need to remember the banks were counting billions of profits whilst running up billions in dodgy assets.

 

Hopefully it is just a good old fashioned 20 million profit but you do need to analyse that figure before you can say its brillant news.

 

Im sorry Prancer but you are talking absolute pash.

 

The media have won you over i see. :xmascrazy:

[McJambo]

You clearly do not know what your talking about.

 

Ubig or Ukio making a profit or loss could have both good or bad implications for hearts.

 

Ukio/ubig could for example lose 35 million and it could be debt write off of hearts which would be brillant.

 

Likewise they could make 20 million but this is because they have shafted hearts.

 

Do I need to explain it slower for some people on here?

 

UKIO losing 35 million would not be good news for hearts whether it was a debt write off or not. If Ukio lost 35 million in a year with a hearts debt write off then they would have barely broke even or even lost money regardless of hearts. How can you view that as good?

 

In the current climate our major sponson is making profit, according to their website. How can that not be deemed good news?

[Rawrrrrrrr]

UKIO losing 35 million would not be good news for hearts whether it was a debt write off or not. If Ukio lost 35 million in a year with a hearts debt write off then they would have barely broke even or even lost money regardless of hearts. How can you view that as good?

 

In the current climate our major sponson is making profit, according to their website. How can that not be deemed good news?

 

 

Ukio and hearts can fail or suceed independently each other.

 

If Ubig or Ukio went bust but cleared hearts debts in the process I would be quite estatic

[JamboAl]

It might just be me but can someone answer this question,

Why is it that a ?20m+ profit for UBIG is reported as not doing us any good because we are a separate entity

yet

the Ripo players not getting paid is bad for us when they too are a separate entity.

Could it be that some reporters AND MANY OF OUR SUPPORT have such a hatred of Romanov that rational thought goes out of the window.

[jambojim52]

Ukio and hearts can fail or suceed independently each other.

 

If Ubig or Ukio went bust but cleared hearts debts in the process I would be quite estatic

 

OH no you wouldn't( it's the pantomime season) You would moan they never left us in the black.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Ukio and hearts can fail or suceed independently each other.

 

If Ubig or Ukio went bust but cleared hearts debts in the process I would be quite estatic

 

How would that ever happen?

You're excelling yourself on this thread.

[Guest casper]

It might just be me but can someone answer this question,

Why is it that a ?20m+ profit for UBIG is reported as not doing us any good because we are a separate entity

yet

the Ripo players not getting paid is bad for us when they too are a separate entity.

Could it be that some reporters AND MANY OF OUR SUPPORT have such a hatred of Romanov that rational thought goes out of the window.

 

Ubig could make ?200000000000M but if they are not paying Hearts bills or players it's not doing my team any good is it.

 

I think your love of romanov is blinding you also.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Ubig could make ?200000000000M but if they are not paying Hearts bills or players it's not doing my team any good is it.

 

I think your love of romanov is blinding you also.

 

 

No. The point is it can't be worse for us than them doing badly.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

How would that ever happen?

You're excelling yourself on this thread.

 

 

Ukio/Ubig decide that they have no likiehood of collecting hearts debts thus agree to write it off for a small payment or nothing at all and thus post massive losses, yet hearts will see their liabilities drastically fall along with their credit charges. I am not saying this is likely and any such action would be complex, just a way it could maybe happen. Or what about a nother equity issue, and them then selling their shares for a nominal sum.

 

I think the only people excelling themselves on here are the idiots who clearly have no idea about finance or how accounts work and resort to being a **** and accusing people of being negative/hobos etc to reinforce their entirely wrong conclusions.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

No. The point is it can't be worse for us than them doing badly.

 

 

Wrong

 

You don't know what your talking about.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Wrong

 

You don't know what your talking about.

 

Okay.

Explain how.

[topcat]

Ukio/Ubig decide that they have no likiehood of collecting hearts debts thus agree to write it off for a small payment or nothing at all and thus post massive losses, yet hearts will see their liabilities drastically fall along with their credit charges. I am not saying this is likely and any such action would be complex, just a way it could maybe happen. Or what about a nother equity issue, and them then selling their shares for a nominal sum.

 

I think the only people excelling themselves on here are the idiots who clearly have no idea about finance or how accounts work and resort to being a **** and accusing people of being negative/hobos etc to reinforce their entirely wrong conclusions.

 

If you were any more stupid I'd think you were an accountant

[spacerjoe]

Just heard on the news quick bit saying UBIG have made 20 million last 6 months? Great news, put's all the doomers to bed.:xmasgrin:

 

No ****ing wonder. They sold Craig Gordon for ?9M.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Ukio/Ubig decide that they have no likiehood of collecting hearts debts thus agree to write it off for a small payment or nothing at all and thus post massive losses, yet hearts will see their liabilities drastically fall along with their credit charges. I am not saying this is likely and any such action would be complex, just a way it could maybe happen. Or what about a nother equity issue, and them then selling their shares for a nominal sum.

 

I think the only people excelling themselves on here are the idiots who clearly have no idea about finance or how accounts work and resort to being a **** and accusing people of being negative/hobos etc to reinforce their entirely wrong conclusions.

 

This from the guy who posted this:

 

"Yes it sounds encouraging, but for all we know they have made a profit by forcing hearts to repay the debt (in accounting ways).

 

I.e Ukio could loan hearts 20 million at higher interest than before to pay Ubig."

 

and this

 

"1) They could have forced us to borrow from Ukio at higher cost to repay Ubig

2) some sort of asset/transfer sale

3) Consultancy fees being charged

4) High debt charges"

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Okay.

Explain how.

 

 

OK

 

Ubig recently swapped 12 million debt for equity.

 

This will have decreased their profits but have reduced hearts debt.

 

Therefore say Ubig had no profits for a year, and decided to swap hearts remaining debt for equity ( say 24 million for purely illustration purposes).

 

Ubigs cash would see a 24 million drop and thus result in a loss, all the while hearts would be debt free.

 

Accounting records and interpretations are very complex, but anyone who states that a profit is great and a loss bad, without knowing far more information about how it is being achieved, is talking out of their absolute behind.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

This from the guy who posted this:

 

"Yes it sounds encouraging, but for all we know they have made a profit by forcing hearts to repay the debt (in accounting ways).

 

I.e Ukio could loan hearts 20 million at higher interest than before to pay Ubig."

 

and this

 

"1) They could have forced us to borrow from Ukio at higher cost to repay Ubig

2) some sort of asset/transfer sale

3) Consultancy fees being charged

4) High debt charges"

 

You clearly do not understand accounts, stop pretending you do.

 

Ubigs profits could have came from charging hearts large debt charges

They could have forced hearts to find a way to repay some credit

They could be charging us for their executives consulting

They could be charging us large debt charges.

 

Yes there may be other implications to these actions, but anyone who states that 20 million profit for ubig must be good for hearts, does not know what they are talking about.

 

It could be good and I have never said it definitly isnt, but it could also be terrible, just like them making a loss could be good or bad.

 

We are seperate from Ubig, some people clearly don't get this.

[MacDonald Jardine]

OK

 

Ubig recently swapped 12 million debt for equity.

 

This will have decreased their profits but have reduced hearts debt.

 

Therefore say Ubig had no profits for a year, and decided to swap hearts remaining debt for equity ( say 24 million for purely illustration purposes).

 

Ubigs cash would see a 24 million drop and thus result in a loss, all the while hearts would be debt free.

 

Accounting records and interpretations are very complex, but anyone who states that a profit is great and a loss bad, without knowing far more information about how it is being achieved, is talking out of their absolute behind.

 

Theoretically yes.

If UBIG voluntarily wound themselves up and gave all their assets to Hearts we'd be quids in.

Can we try and live in the real world?

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Theoretically yes.

If UBIG voluntarily wound themselves up and gave all their assets to Hearts we'd be quids in.

Can we try and live in the real world?

 

 

You asked how it could happen, I pointed out how, you are simply changing your question.

 

Yes its unlikely to happen, but it could, that is why without far more information, the posts on this thread creaming themselves, about a profit, that didnt even happen are misinformed and ridicolous.

 

Likewise there are real world ways Ubig making a profit could be bad for hearts. Do you dispute this?

[MacDonald Jardine]

You clearly do not understand accounts, stop pretending you do.

 

Ubigs profits could have came from charging hearts large debt charges

They could have forced hearts to find a way to repay some credit

They could be charging us for their executives consulting

They could be charging us large debt charges.

 

Yes there may be other implications to these actions, but anyone who states that 20 million profit for ubig must be good for hearts, does not know what they are talking about.

 

It could be good and I have never said it definitly isnt, but it could also be terrible, just like them making a loss could be good or bad.

 

We are seperate from Ubig, some people clearly don't get this.

 

What kind of interest rate would be required to make ?20million in one year on Hearts' debt?

 

Repaying credit would only be profit if it had already been written off and was then shown as an extraordinary item.

 

I'll give you the third although again ?20million in a year is extortionate.

 

You're the one that's kidding yourself.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

What kind of interest rate would be required to make ?20million in one year on Hearts' debt?

 

Repaying credit would only be profit if it had already been written off and was then shown as an extraordinary item.

 

I'll give you the third although again ?20million in a year is extortionate.

 

You're the one that's kidding yourself.

 

 

Hearts have regularly been paying registration fees to kaunas that we as fans did not expect, the romanovs refused, or couldnt explain why.

 

Do I trust them when it comes to finances or the best interests of hearts?

 

Do I heck.

 

There probably charging us a million a year for Rodney - joke before anyone tries to prove me wrong.

[Guest casper]

Theoretically yes.

If UBIG voluntarily wound themselves up and gave all their assets to Hearts we'd be quids in.

Can we try and live in the real world?

 

Or they could pay off Hearts debt by selling off one of their other assets, like the Bosnian aluminium plant, or part of it. The could sell that for ?24M and pay off Hearts debt. Ubig could still show a ?20M profit, great, but would have reduced assets, not so great.

[Ribble]

Not disputing the possibilities being argued on either side simply becuase they are all theoretical 'what if's?' , however there are far too many people on here that never once seem to think what if? and come up with something positive! Always glass half empty with some folk!

 

As for me i will take the news as being good for hearts, why? Well look around and see both the banks that hold other clubs debts getting bailed out right left and centre and also the clubs that have no sponsor/sponsor has gone bust/ sponsor nearly going to the wall! So I would much rather have our debt held with and be sponsored by a Bank that for whatever magical mystery reason is posting profits of any level in the current financial climate!

[fc-1874]

Mate, wasn't intended as pessimism, I'm the eternal optimist type of Hearts fan, there would be no point in being one otherwise!!

:food-smiley-004:That cheered me up. Come on the Hearts:xmasgrin: