The Hobos and the media must be wetting themselves at you all

[Only a Game]

That's an excellent question. I hadn't really considered that angle. What I would say is that the interweb has provided a previously unavailable medium for "fans" to wail and gnash their teeth in an attempt to demonstrate they are "better" and "more committed" than their peers.

 

Says the poster who plays the "better fan" card on a weekly basis

[troonjambo]

Disagree with the above OaG, if Mercer had not come in when he did HMFC would have gone to the wall within days.

 

indeed iain and the immortal wallace also had a long running job juggling

bills and prioritising repairs for safety certificates fending off baliffs and god bless his memory for it :bravo::bravo:

 

if JKB had been about he would have got it tight in those days or maybe he would not as we all expected to be back to the walls then and had less expectations

[MacDonald Jardine]

So assuming that the real protest against CPR was against the sale of Tynecastle and if the protest against VR was against his running of the club...

 

What did the CPR protests hope to achieve?

 

Mainly to avoid the sale of Tynecastle.

At the time the only person saying there was no option was CPR.

 

My memory is that the get CPR out campaign grew out of that.

 

Don't forget the fundraising to finance a buy out failed spectacularly.

 

If not buying VR out what would a protest campaign hope to achieve?

[Sherlock]

indeed iain and the immortal wallace also had a long running job juggling

bills and prioritising repairs for safety certificates fending off baliffs and god bless his memory for it :bravo::bravo:

 

if JKB had been about he would have got it tight in those days or maybe he would not as we all expected to be back to the walls then and had less expectations

 

He did "get it tight" during his custodianship.

[djf]

So assuming that the real protest against CPR was against the sale of Tynecastle and if the protest against VR was against his running of the club...

 

What did the CPR protests hope to achieve?

 

In all honesty the CPR protests didn't really kick off until it was too late. The date was set for the sale of Tynecastle and that was really what spurred the fans into action. However it's arguable how much difference the protest really made. Between us we didn't raise nearly enough to make an impact and it was only Romanov's interest in the club - which would have most likely came about protest or no protest - which prevented the sale of Tynecastle.

 

At times, we as football fans can over-estimate the impact we can make. Somebody mentioned Newcastle earlier in the thread. Look at their protests after Keegan was sacked. They wanted Ashley out and Ashley admitted he would sell for the right price because of this. Months on, Ashley is still in charge as no buyer can be found. And that's in the richest league in the world.

 

Fans can protest all day long. They may even get a reaction from the club in some cases. But overhaul at board room level will happen despite fan's protests not because of it.

[Only a Game]

If not buying VR out what would a protest campaign hope to achieve?

 

A protest campaign would be absolutely futile. Thats why there isnt one.

 

However I do think there are plenty people around who would be prepared to do whatever they could to ensure either the future of the club, or its re-birth, if the axe were to fall.

[Sherlock]

Mainly to avoid the sale of Tynecastle.

At the time the only person saying there was no option was CPR.

 

My memory is that the get CPR out campaign grew out of that.

 

Don't forget the fundraising to finance a buy out failed spectacularly.

 

If not buying VR out what would a protest campaign hope to achieve?

 

As the aims of the protest against CPR's sale of Tynie was to avoid the sale of Tynie, i'd say similarly, the aims of any protest against VR's running of the club would be that the club was run better.

 

What are your thoughts on VR's running of the club, from his day 1 to now? What i mean is, looking at his list of good decisions and his list of bad decisions, do you think he is good for Heart of Midlothian FC?

[troonjambo]

That's an excellent question. I hadn't really considered that angle. What I would say is that the interweb has provided a previously unavailable medium for "fans" to wail and gnash their teeth in an attempt to demonstrate they are "better" and "more committed" than their peers.

 

i think the internet can definitely be a bad tool as its a lazy way of being able to disscuss hearts without actually going to a game/pub ect on match day id love a attendee only forum but probably impassable to organise

 

the above only applies to those that can afford to or are able to makes games for the boys who are skint or abroad/far away ect obviously its a god send

[Sherlock]

In all honesty the CPR protests didn't really kick off until it was too late. The date was set for the sale of Tynecastle and that was really what spurred the fans into action. However it's arguable how much difference the protest really made. Between us we didn't raise nearly enough to make an impact and it was only Romanov's interest in the club - which would have most likely came about protest or no protest - which prevented the sale of Tynecastle.

 

At times, we as football fans can over-estimate the impact we can make. Somebody mentioned Newcastle earlier in the thread. Look at their protests after Keegan was sacked. They wanted Ashley out and Ashley admitted he would sell for the right price because of this. Months on, Ashley is still in charge as no buyer can be found. And that's in the richest league in the world.

 

Fans can protest all day long. They may even get a reaction from the club in some cases. But overhaul at board room level will happen despite fan's protests not because of it.

 

Could it actually be resultant futility of the CPR protest campaign that has resulted in the apathy apparent in today's Hearts fans?

[Therapist]

i think the internet can definitely be a bad tool

 

Spot on. The interweb is a Godsend for wind up merchants and Walter Mitty types.

[Tynie b]

The number of panic merchants on here is jaw dropping.

 

I realise that many of them are part of the infiltrator/wind-up gang, but people are massively over-reacting to 3 stories about nothing.

 

3 people are taking Hearts to the small claims court - a matter of a couple of thousand.

 

the water board want their money - it's thousands, so a maximum of 9 grand or the Sun would have had it down as tens of thousands.

 

The only story worth bothering about is the non payment of players, but that's been fixed - just as it was when it happened before.

 

Hearts are in the crap, but no more than they were this time last month.

 

Stop slitting your wrists and get on with your lives.

 

Yip, Everything is Hunky Dorey!!

MadFud is doing a great Job, That choob is making a mokery of this club, He's not got a ******* Clue, and I doubt he has the money either!!

But you Just keep telling yourself everythings the fault of the Weegie Media, and we'll be SPL champions before you know it!!

[Tynie b]

Spot on. The interweb is a Godsend for wind up merchants and Walter Mitty types.

 

You should know...

[troonjambo]

Mainly to avoid the sale of Tynecastle.

At the time the only person saying there was no option was CPR.

 

My memory is that the get CPR out campaign grew out of that.

 

Don't forget the fundraising to finance a buy out failed spectacularly.

 

If not buying VR out what would a protest campaign hope to achieve?

 

the fundrasing did indeed fail and we should not forget that. though enough time was bought by soh for lord fowkes to get mr romanov in to save our beloved home from demolition .

what must not be forgotten is that only mr romanov had/has the money to do this and that situation has hopefully not changed

[troonjambo]

Spot on. The interweb is a Godsend for wind up merchants and Walter Mitty types.

 

Dont i know it :laugh::laugh:

[troonjambo]

Yip, Everything is Hunky Dorey!!

MadFud is doing a great Job, That choob is making a mokery of this club, He's not got a ******* Clue, and I doubt he has the money either!!

But you Just keep telling yourself everythings the fault of the Weegie Media, and we'll be SPL champions before you know it!!

 

everything is not hunky dory mate no one is disputing that,what we are saying is

 

1) what protest without a goal or purpose or a viable alternative is trying to achieve

 

2) this endless slating of our own club plays into the hands of those that hate us (and they really do i have been stunned by the level of animosity we face from every section of Scottish media establishment and other fans

[troonjambo]

He did "get it tight" during his custodianship.

 

true but more so at the end and i am sure that many that gave him it tight regret doing so

[Sherlock]

...1) what protest without a goal or purpose or a viable alternative is trying to achieve...

 

I would imagine the goal of any protest would be to protest at the way the club is being run.

 

I would imagine the purpose of any protest would be to get the club run in a better manner.

 

There was no viable alternative when the protests against CPR's proposed sale of Tynecastle began.

 

Where you against the idea of protesting against CPR's proposed sale of Tynecastle because their was no viable alternative back then?

[winston churchill]

indeed iain and the immortal wallace also had a long running job juggling

bills and prioritising repairs for safety certificates fending off baliffs and god bless his memory for it :bravo::bravo:

 

if JKB had been about he would have got it tight in those days or maybe he would not as we all expected to be back to the walls then and had less expectations

 

 

 

i seem to remember the forced sale of derek addison ,to keep the wolves from the door.

[brownkg]

As the aims of the protest against CPR's sale of Tynie was to avoid the sale of Tynie, i'd say similarly, the aims of any protest against VR's running of the club would be that the club was run better.

 

What are your thoughts on VR's running of the club, from his day 1 to now? What i mean is, looking at his list of good decisions and his list of bad decisions, do you think he is good for Heart of Midlothian FC?

 

What is the very worst Vlad could do to us? :-

A:- Sell the ground from under our feet for staged payments whilst making off with his own pocket lined!

 

Has he done that yet?

A:- not as far as I can tell but I believe becuase of SOH we are better prepared if he does try that. Personally I think part of the problem with fundraising was there was no absolute drop dead date when we would go out of business but nonetheless I know a number of people who wanted to and indeed did help came out of the woodwork.

 

 

What is the very best he could do for us?

A:- a "fergus" rebuid the ground and fanbase and then waltz off into the sunset with his reward

 

Has he done that yet?

 

a:- Sadly no

 

We have muddled along somewhere between these two extremes for the duration of his ownership and don't forget we have had good times like the start of 2005'6 like the cup, like now with Csaba. I am not denying the bad times but ...........

 

 

conclusion we are better off than if he hadn't come along and we are now hostage to the fortune of him effectively controlling 95% of the club hence the resigned position of "no point in protesting" pervades the support.

[MacDonald Jardine]

i seem to remember the forced sale of derek addison ,to keep the wolves from the door.

 

That's right

IIRC he was sold in part to pay his own transfer fee. We owed Dundee Utd money for buying him and Willie Pettigrew.

I'm sure we were also banned from buying players for a while because of it.

Nothing much changes.

[MacDonald Jardine]

As the aims of the protest against CPR's sale of Tynie was to avoid the sale of Tynie, i'd say similarly, the aims of any protest against VR's running of the club would be that the club was run better.

 

What are your thoughts on VR's running of the club, from his day 1 to now? What i mean is, looking at his list of good decisions and his list of bad decisions, do you think he is good for Heart of Midlothian FC?

 

At the moment, no I don't think he's good.

The problem is one of alternatives.

 

As for protests, what exactly does running the club better mean?

Every protestor will have their own views on that.

[troonjambo]

That's right

IIRC he was sold in part to pay his own transfer fee. We owed Dundee Utd money for buying him and Willie Pettigrew.

I'm sure we were also banned from buying players for a while because of it.

Nothing much changes.

 

absolutely correct

[Guest jambomickey]

absolutely correct

 

it doesn't get much worse than at present! how many other football clubs don't pay bills? are constantly in small debt courts and don't pay players and staff on time?

[troonjambo]

it doesn't get much worse than at present! how many other football clubs don't pay bills? are constantly in small debt courts and don't pay players and staff on time?

 

oh yes it does far far far worse

[Guest jambomickey]

oh yes it does far far far worse

 

football wise we're doing fine but the financial side of the club is a mess.

[Sherlock]

oh yes it does far far far worse

 

Yes, it could be worse.

 

Anyway, were you against the idea of protesting against CPR's proposed sale of Tynecastle because their was no viable alternative back then?

[MacDonald Jardine]

it doesn't get much worse than at present! how many other football clubs don't pay bills? are constantly in small debt courts and don't pay players and staff on time?

 

I'd imagine quite a few clubs have a number of debts outstanding.

The difference with us is we're fair game to be criticised for it and in turn I think that makes court actions more likely.

Not paying staff or the players is indefensible though.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Yes, it could be worse.

 

Anyway, were you against the idea of protesting against CPR's proposed sale of Tynecastle because their was no viable alternative back then?

 

Again who said there wasn't an alternative?

The only one was Robinson.

 

In this situation who says there is an alternative?

And don't give me all the ****e about a reconstituted Hearts 2009 in the 3rd Division.

[troonjambo]

Yes, it could be worse.

 

Anyway, were you against the idea of protesting against CPR's proposed sale of Tynecastle because their was no viable alternative back then?

 

not at all my father after a call from gary mckay voted his (now mine) shares with SOH also and more importantly beleved at the time that we would be able to raise the money ourselfs

 

I was wrong on that one :mad:and that is very much what has shaped my views on this issue mate

[troonjambo]

Again who said there wasn't an alternative?

The only one was Robinson.

 

In this situation who says there is an alternative?

And don't give me all the ****e about a reconstituted Hearts 2009 in the 3rd Division.

 

anyone who says that should never forget if that happens then we lose our honours and history f.u.*.k that with bells on

[Sherlock]

Again who said there wasn't an alternative?

The only one was Robinson.

 

In this situation who says there is an alternative?

And don't give me all the ****e about a reconstituted Hearts 2009 in the 3rd Division.

 

I'm not saying that there was an alternative back then or that there is an alternative now.

 

I simply find it strange that some posters are against any form of protest now as their is no alternative but were all for a protest back then despite there being no alternative then.

 

I can't see the difference between the two. In 2004 the club was being run badly and there was no alternative but protest was an option. Fast forward to 2008 and the club is being run badly and again there is no alternative but it seems that now any protest is not an option.

 

Maybe someone can explain the difference between the two. Although, as i said, if it is because of the resultant futility of the CPR protest campaign that has resulted in the apathy today then i'd understand that.

[troonjambo]

I'm not saying that there was an alternative back then or that there is an alternative now.

 

I simply find it strange that some posters are against any form of protest now as their is no alternative but were all for a protest back then despite there being no alternative then.

 

I can't see the difference between the two. In 2004 the club was being run badly and there was no alternative but protest was an option. Fast forward to 2008 and the club is being run badly and again there is no alternative but it seems that now any protest is not an option.

 

Maybe someone can explain the difference between the two. Although, as i said, if it is because of the resultant futility of the CPR protest campaign that has resulted in the apathy today then i'd understand that.

 

we did think there was a alternative back then

it turned out there was, but it was not the one we expected.

 

now i now you can counter point that another unknown white knight might appear but in the present financial climate just how many rich people can actually lay there hand on 30 million pounds cash not assets cash and why would they when there are far bigger going clubs for sale playing in better leagues for that kind of money

[djf]

I'm not saying that there was an alternative back then or that there is an alternative now.

 

I simply find it strange that some posters are against any form of protest now as their is no alternative but were all for a protest back then despite there being no alternative then.

 

I can't see the difference between the two. In 2004 the club was being run badly and there was no alternative but protest was an option. Fast forward to 2008 and the club is being run badly and again there is no alternative but it seems that now any protest is not an option.

 

Maybe someone can explain the difference between the two. Although, as i said, if it is because of the resultant futility of the CPR protest campaign that has resulted in the apathy today then i'd understand that.

 

 

I don't think anyone is against protests. I think people are against certain loud-mouths on here who go on and on and on and on but never back up their whining with action.

 

If people want to protest go and do it. We've been hearing about it for 3 years on JKB and not seen anything actually happen from it.

[Sherlock]

I don't think anyone is against protests...

 

Plenty on here are against any form of protest against VR's running of the club.

[djf]

Plenty on here are against any form of protest against VR's running of the club.

 

And that's their call. Debating the merits of a protest is reasonably interesting. What's dull beyond belief is the same people coming on, going on and on about protesting, then logging off and doing nothing about it until the next time they feel like being e-crusaders.

 

Especially when they then try to take the moral high ground over the running of the club.

 

In short, if the extent of your protesting at Romanov's ownership is whining on JKB then I would really question the strength of your feelings on the matter. (Not aimed at yourself btw)

[troonjambo]

Plenty on here are against any form of protest against VR's running of the club.

 

think your feeling a wee bit backed into a corner there mate and you shouldn't :)as were all jambos , debating a serious point i think in a fairly educated and civil fashion by JKB STANDARDS;)

and perhapes as a consequently your being a bit harsh in your post re fellow jambos

i can assure you that no one does not acknowledge all that has went on but times change its a different financial world at the moment and dare i suggest we need to keep our eye on the ball now and not further alienate our main backer

[troonjambo]

Not paying staff or the players is indefensible though.

 

agreed but lets not for one second forget these players have deferred payment and told us to chill and i and every jambo i was drinking with last night thinks a lot more of them for doing so

 

not to mention ther manager that has shaped the team spirit it has demonstrated :)

[jambojim52]

I would imagine the goal of any protest would be to protest at the way the club is being run.

 

I would imagine the purpose of any protest would be to get the club run in a better manner.

 

There was no viable alternative when the protests against CPR's proposed sale of Tynecastle began.

 

Where you against the idea of protesting against CPR's proposed sale of Tynecastle because their was no viable alternative back then?

 

Ok We agree we need to protest:

What form would that take?

We boycott home games? Result: club folds VR walks, what then?

We stand outside the ground after games? VR isn't here and even if he did care, what can we do if he ignores us?

We could stop buying merchantise. Same result, club folds.

We could hold up banners in the ground. same result if VR refises to budge.

Hold sit ins. same result /fans arrested for Breach of the peace.

 

Previously we tried the SoH and even then we could not raise funds enough to change thing, what chance now with present debt?

[Sherlock]

think your feeling a wee bit backed into a corner there mate and you shouldn't :)as were all jambos , debating a serious point i think in a fairly educated and civil fashion by JKB STANDARDS;)

and perhapes as a consequently your being a bit harsh in your post re fellow jambos

i can assure you that no one does not acknowledge all that has went on but times change its a different financial world at the moment and dare i suggest we need to keep our eye on the ball now and not further alienate our main backer

 

I don't feel backed into any corner as i've never advocated protest or no protest.

 

I'm merely commenting on those that were for protest then but not now. IMO, the club is being run just as badly and can't see the difference.

[Francis Albert]

[quote=troonjambo;669327 not to mention ther manager that has shaped the team spirit it has demonstrated :)

 

Controversial maybe, but also not to mention Anatoly Korobotchov (sp?) who seems to have handled what must have been difficult discussions/negotiations with the players with some skill.

[Sherlock]

And that's their call. Debating the merits of a protest is reasonably interesting. What's dull beyond belief is the same people coming on, going on and on about protesting, then logging off and doing nothing about it until the next time they feel like being e-crusaders.

 

Especially when they then try to take the moral high ground over the running of the club.

 

In short, if the extent of your protesting at Romanov's ownership is whining on JKB then I would really question the strength of your feelings on the matter. (Not aimed at yourself btw)

 

Noted.

[Sherlock]

Controversial maybe, but also not to mention Anatoly Korobotchov (sp?) who seems to have handled what must have been difficult discussions/negotiations with the players with some skill.

 

Was AK involved in the discussions/negotiations with the players? I'm very suprised at that.

[Francis Albert]

Was AK involved in the discussions/negotiations with the players?

 

Yes, according to a number of reports I've read.