magicTs Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 But it didn't matter while UBIG were minted surely? UBIG were never in a million years going to continually subsidise Hearts. The fact that no reasonable or coherent answers have been given to financial questions at either of the last 2 AGM's told that story to all in attendance. There has never been a plan in place either short, mid or long term. It has been a shambles throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 But it didn't matter while UBIG were minted surely? Of course it mattered !!!!! UBIG/VR were never going to subsidise us forever. When VR came in he stated we would be debt free within months and how many times have him and his son been quoted as saying there was no debt ? Clearly there was debt - a frickin big one at that !! It grew by 50% over a 2 year period and that was not the way to run a club of our size. VR/UBIG should have been more careful with our money and if they been a bit smarter and more honest Hearts could have been well on the way to zero debt by now. But instead FBK Kaunas collected transfer fee after transfer fee to our cost. Players, correction - useless players, colected wages beyond anything we could afford. We've been mismanaged since Day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 You've made a right shop front of running Hearts Romanov. Putting aside all the "football decision" mistakes he's made, his financial ones are equally as bad. I'll concede he made good money on Skacel, Hartley, Gordon and Bednar, but he's also blown lots of that cash. Feck me the money wasted on The Bullet and Pinilla take care of the Skacel, Hartley and probably the Bednar money as well. Fecking ejit! A multi-millionaire businessman who bought a football club with ?20 million worth the debt and quickly turned it into a ?40 million debt. Fecking ejit! Who sanctioned a shedload of some very "average" players to be on wages of ?10,000 plus per week, and a whole raft of youth players to be on ?1000 per week. Fecking ejit! Who runs a bank but can't manage to ensure that funds are transferred to players accounts on time. Fecking ejit! Face it Vlad, you couldn't organise a pesh up in a brewery, or probably afford one now either. Not only are you an ejit, it looks like you're a fecking skint ejit! can't blame him for that. That's all down to the credit crunch, most teams in the SPL will be affected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 can't blame him for that. That's all down to the credit crunch, most teams in the SPL will be affected I seriously hope you're kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 can't blame him for that. That's all down to the credit crunch, most teams in the SPL will be affected Can you post a link to the article that listed all the SPL clubs who failed to pay their players on time. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Can you post a link to the article that listed all the SPL clubs who failed to pay their players on time. Thanks. http://www.footballeconomy.com/archive/archive_2008_feb_14.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black stump Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Abramovich does for Chelski - they are massively in debt, but nobody cares cos he is good for it. That's a similar (if smaller) scenario that Vlad sold to us and many believed - ok, cos we wanted to, but still, UBIG were good for it so what went wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertonian_II Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Wallace Mercer racked up the debt against the value of the stadium, as did Robinson. Romanov continued that but UBIG took on some of the debt, thankfully. Neither Mercer or Robinson had to contend with a recession like now. If they had, HMFC would have been toast a lot lot quicker. Blame Romanov all you like, but as far I'm concerned he's kept us up there that little bit longer than the previous owners. He's made mistakes, so did they. I'm surprised nobody's blamed him for the credit crunch. TINA, unfortunately. We'll just have to live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 http://www.footballeconomy.com/archive/archive_2008_feb_14.htm Different circumstances, unless Romanov has a terminal illness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandt Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 The only really annoying thing about this is that it comes when we've got great morale and results going. Whenever something positive in the team happens things like this are right behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboy81 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Abramovich does for Chelski - they are massively in debt, but nobody cares cos he is good for it. That's a similar (if smaller) scenario that Vlad sold to us and many believed - ok, cos we wanted to, but still, UBIG were good for it so what went wrong? Chelsea aren't insolvent. They also have mega money assets which they could sell in the event of an emergency Abramovich has delivered unprecedented success The comparisions between the two are ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Wallace Mercer racked up the debt against the value of the stadium, as did Robinson. Romanov continued that but UBIG took on some of the debt, thankfully. Neither Mercer or Robinson had to contend with a recession like now. If they had, HMFC would have been toast a lot lot quicker. Blame Romanov all you like, but as far I'm concerned he's kept us up there that little bit longer than the previous owners. He's made mistakes, so did they. I'm surprised nobody's blamed him for the credit crunch. TINA, unfortunately. We'll just have to live with it. VR racked up debt that surpassed the value of the stadium and land by more than ?15million. Mercer also had to deal with a recession in the early 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in leith Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Hearts finances weren't the best but UBIG weren't under any pressure at all. Sorry, but how do you know that? For long enough we've been wondering about UBIG's finances. Periodically folk have quoted figures for UBIG's assets, but the value of a company's assets is meaningless unless you know what their liabilities are. The one godsend in recent times was the debt for equity swap. I think we caught a break there. As a stand alone business the club is worth feck all. Vlad's little empire now owns a higher percentage of nothing. The value for the empire is in the debt. THe debt is ?12m less than it was for the debt for equity swap. The club's main asset is the land, which can't be realised quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Different circumstances, unless Romanov has a terminal illness? No comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 Wallace Mercer racked up the debt against the value of the stadium, as did Robinson. Romanov continued that but UBIG took on some of the debt, thankfully. Neither Mercer or Robinson had to contend with a recession like now. If they had, HMFC would have been toast a lot lot quicker. Blame Romanov all you like, but as far I'm concerned he's kept us up there that little bit longer than the previous owners. He's made mistakes, so did they. I'm surprised nobody's blamed him for the credit crunch. TINA, unfortunately. We'll just have to live with it. FFS, Romanov, in two years, doubled our debt to ?40 million. His management of this football club has been a hundred times worse than either WM or CPR. What you also seem to forget is that at the relevant point in time both WM and CPR saved Hearts from possible extinction, or is it easier to forget that in your defence of Romanov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Abramovich does for Chelski - they are massively in debt, but nobody cares cos he is good for it. That's a similar (if smaller) scenario that Vlad sold to us and many believed - ok, cos we wanted to, but still, UBIG were good for it so what went wrong? They weren't getting the required results. With the exception of Season 1 we were no better than were under CPR and CL with a 3rd of the budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black stump Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Chelsea aren't insolvent. They also have mega money assets which they could sell in the event of an emergency Abramovich has delivered unprecedented success The comparisions between the two are ridiculous Yeah, okay, there is a gulf between them and us, but the principle at the start was the same. Vlad unfortunately seems to have routed good money towards Kaunas and kept the debt in Edinburgh. Abramovich seems committed to his team............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertonian_II Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 VR racked up debt that surpassed the value of the stadium and land by more than ?15million. Mercer also had to deal with a recession in the early 90's. The debt doesn't stand at ?37m now. As recessions go, I don't think it was as bad then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 The debt doesn't stand at ?37m now. As recessions go, I don't think it was as bad then. What is the debt then? Can you provide a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertonian_II Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 FFS, Romanov, in two years, doubled our debt to ?40 million. His management of this football club has been a hundred times worse than either WM or CPR. What you also seem to forget is that at the relevant point in time both WM and CPR saved Hearts from possible extinction, or is it easier to forget that in your defence of Romanov. jesus H where does the ?40m come from? The Sun FFS? The one thing they all have in common is that they 'saved' the club before going on to ruin it. Mercer & Robinson bought the store, but couldn't afford to stock it. Romanov could, until he lost interest and the recession came along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 The debt doesn't stand at ?37m now. As recessions go, I don't think it was as bad then. My guess is that the debt is around ?20million which is roughly where it was when he came in. Our debt is now waaay above what the value of the land is - if a buyer could ever be found of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertonian_II Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 What is the debt then? Can you provide a link? It ain't ?40m. I could have sworn that we sold players for a few bob here and there and got rid of some to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertonian_II Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Our debt is now waaay above what the value of the land is - if a buyer could ever be found of course. And that's Romanov's fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freewheelin' Jambo Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 What is the debt then? Can you provide a link? I would say that in 1981 the economic climate in Britain was horrendous and that for Hearts, if it was not for Mercer and his injection of ?250k, Heart of Midlothian FC would have disappeared like Third Lanark. We had suffered years of decline and were really not worth the candle back then. However the difference is that Vladimir Romanov saved TYNECASTLE not HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN FC. It is not and never will be known whether HMFC would have survived moving to Murrayfield. Until it happens. If it happens. Wallace Mercer saved Heart of Midlothian FC. The Club. The Stadium. The History. The tradition. Vladimir saved only one part. The Stadium. If the CLUB dies ALL dies with it. If the CLUB survives, then all history and tradition survives with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 And that's Romanov's fault? The debt part is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chester copperpot Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 And that's Romanov's fault? Pretty much aye. We had a land that equalled the value a few years back. I'm glad we didn't however, we've made our bed now, so we must lie in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 jesus H where does the ?40m come from? The Sun FFS? The one thing they all have in common is that they 'saved' the club before going on to ruin it. Mercer & Robinson bought the store, but couldn't afford to stock it. Romanov could, until he lost interest and the recession came along Ok Einstein, you do the math. Hearts debt now plus ?9 million for Gordon, plus ?2.5 million for Bednar, plus the ?12 million debt for equity swap, plus a huge wage bill, so, it isn't conceivable that the debt was at ?40 million. Strangely enough exactly the figure that was agreed to be a borrowing limit a year or so ago. Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 My guess is that the debt is around ?20million which is roughly where it was when he came in. Our debt is now waaay above what the value of the land is - if a buyer could ever be found of course. And we have completely wasted the huge transfer fee we got for Craig Gordon which should have been a godsend to decrease the debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 And he completely wasted the huge transfer fee he got for Craig Gordon which should have been a godsend to decrease the debt. Slight amendment to your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Tiresias Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 My guess is that the debt is around ?20million which is roughly where it was when he came in. You're probably not too far off the mark at ?20m. I just wonder what the owner has got out of his involvement with our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Slight amendment to your post. Good amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 And we have completely wasted the huge transfer fee we got for Craig Gordon which should have been a godsend to decrease the debt. Correct. So much money has been wasted and transferred to FBK Kaunas that financially we are in no better a position than we were when VR attended that AGM in 2004. We also have a poorer playing squad getting paid double the amount that squad did. We've squandered more money than Micheal Jackson and in a shorter period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 You're probably not too far off the mark at ?20m. I just wonder what the owner has got out of his involvement with our club. An ego trip, a chance to play football manager, blew the Gordon, Bednar and Hartley transfer money, consultancy fees for Kaunas and he still may walk away from the gig not having lost any money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Tiresias Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 An ego trip, a chance to play football manager, blew the Gordon, Bednar and Hartley transfer money, consultancy fees for Kaunas and he still may walk away from the gig not having lost any money. I suspect that through the dodgy loan deals with Kaunas and other unexplainable signings over the last 3 years that he will have made a nice tidy sum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboy81 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 And that's Romanov's fault? You are taking the p-ss aren't you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 An ego trip, a chance to play football manager, blew the Gordon, Bednar and Hartley transfer money, consultancy fees for Kaunas and he still may walk away from the gig not having lost any money. Whatever happens with us he will surely have lost millions with his ludicrous property purchases, no ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertonian_II Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Ok Einstein, you do the math. Hearts debt now plus ?9 million for Gordon, plus ?2.5 million for Bednar, plus the ?12 million debt for equity swap, plus a huge wage bill, so, it isn't conceivable that the debt was at ?40 million. Strangely enough exactly the figure that was agreed to be a borrowing limit a year or so ago. Coincidence? If you say so, it must be true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertonian_II Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 You are taking the p-ss aren't you!! No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboy81 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I suspect that through the dodgy loan deals with Kaunas and other unexplainable signings over the last 3 years that he will have made a nice tidy sum. The real money will come when Mikoluinas and Zaliukas become megastars in the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Tiresias Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 The real money will come when Mikoluinas and Zaliukas become megastars in the Premiership. Is that what they call the 3rd division in Latvia?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 If you say so, it must be true So you can't count then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 I would say that in 1981 the economic climate in Britain was horrendous and that for Hearts, if it was not for Mercer and his injection of ?250k, Heart of Midlothian FC would have disappeared like Third Lanark. We had suffered years of decline and were really not worth the candle back then. However the difference is that Vladimir Romanov saved TYNECASTLE not HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN FC. It is not and never will be known whether HMFC would have survived moving to Murrayfield. Until it happens. If it happens. Wallace Mercer saved Heart of Midlothian FC. The Club. The Stadium. The History. The tradition. Vladimir saved only one part. The Stadium. If the CLUB dies ALL dies with it. If the CLUB survives, then all history and tradition survives with it. Unfortunately there weren't too many in the "stadium desn't matter but the club does" camp back in the "CPR GTF" days. That's forgotten now of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 Whatever happens with us he will surely have lost millions with his ludicrous property purchases, no ? Aye, his business dealings outwith Eastern Europe have been an absolute disaster. Is the bank in Castle Street open yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tynie Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 We have a lot of that and more. We have a club. WRONG he has a club or at least what is left of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 You've made a right shop front of running Hearts Romanov. Putting aside all the "football decision" mistakes he's made, his financial ones are equally as bad. I'll concede he made good money on Skacel, Hartley, Gordon and Bednar, but he's also blown lots of that cash. Feck me the money wasted on The Bullet and Pinilla take care of the Skacel, Hartley and probably the Bednar money as well. Fecking ejit! A multi-millionaire businessman who bought a football club with ?20 million worth the debt and quickly turned it into a ?40 million debt. Fecking ejit! Who sanctioned a shedload of some very "average" players to be on wages of ?10,000 plus per week, and a whole raft of youth players to be on ?1000 per week. Fecking ejit! Who runs a bank but can't manage to ensure that funds are transferred to players accounts on time. Fecking ejit! Face it Vlad, you couldn't organise a pesh up in a brewery, or probably afford one now either. Not only are you an ejit, it looks like you're a fecking skint ejit! We are now in a far worse situation than under Robinson. His communication was hopeless and of course his last throw of the dice solution was to sell Tynie and clear the debt. As much as I disagreed with Robinson at the time ...if I was given the chance I would certainly rewind 3 years, sell Tynie and clear this feckin debt that has now strangled us for years!! In the present situation, there is no developer worth his salt that is looking to build so the chances of selling the ground are nil....but if it comes to that in time, then so be it....Arsenal, Sunderland, Middlesborough...all of them have increased gates through moving!. The ground or the team are not the most important things..the CLUB is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 So the global credit crunch hasn't had a big effect on UBIG then? It isn't a major factor in Hearts finances? It is at this time The Boo, but I think if we are honest this situation is not something that has sneaked up on us since events around September 16. This has been a much longer process, which is now being compounded by the economic climate at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 ...if I was given the chance I would certainly rewind 3 years, sell Tynie and clear this feckin debt that has now strangled us for years!! And just how popular was that view on JKB three and a bit years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 And just how popular was that view on JKB three and a bit years ago? If they knew then what we know now, etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Jesus wept! Calm down folks! As I said on another thread, an egm needs to be forced to get answers rather than falling out with each other on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only a Game Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Have all the others got multi-millionaire owners? More importantly...are any of the others called Heart of Midlothian FC ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.