Ex-paramilitary Michael Stone guilty of attempted murder

[Therapist]

Not to mention being in the possession of a yellow mini.

 

 

I had forgotten about that one.

 

I was at Heathrow Airport not long after armed police appeared at our airports for the first time. I remember browsing the bookshop for some in-flight reading material (stop tittering at the back) and happened upon a copper with his sub-machine gun. He was thumbing through a book - The History of the SAS.

 

I also had a bloke who worked for me who left to join L&B's finest because he wanted to get into the firearma stuff.

 

With examples like that, no wonder they are trigger happy.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Nope. None of the groups you've mentioned have seen their homeland occupied by an illegal army.

 

In what way are the British forces in Northern Ireland an illegal army?

 

It also presupposes that migrants to a country have to expect a bit of discrimination which they have less right to complain about than native born people.

[Ulysses]

(stop tittering at the back)

 

We would - but the wording of your request has brought on another fit of the giggles.

[Ulysses]

Ah, OK. Was there any polling done amongst the Irish public during The Troubles? What did they think of the IRA?

 

I can't find any links to opinion polling, and in truth I can't recall ever seeing a poll with "What do you think of the IRA?" options.

 

The results of real elections provide some guidance. In the period between 1969 and 1992, Republicans stood candidates in a number of elections, and generally their performance was abysmal, with national support levels of the order of 1-3%. Subsequent to the 1994 and 1996 ceasefires and the beginning of the political process in NI, Sinn F?in's election performance in the South improved. It is noteworthy that Sinn F?in did not perform as well as it expected in the 2007 general election. Political analysts believe that the party continued to pick up some "left-wing" support from poor urban areas of the country, but lost a lot of its core support from hardline Republicans.

 

Another indicator is the result of the referendum on the Belfast Agreement (22 May 1998), in which 94.4% voted to adopt the agreement and 5.6% voted against. Even the 5.6% isn't really a reliable indicator, because some of those were hardline opponents of a separate proposal about EU reform that was put in a referendum on the same day.

[grumpyjambo]

The brave men of the Parachute Regiment were cleared of any blame for what happened.

 

We shall await the outcome of the Saville Enquiry with interest but I am expecting another whitewash.

[grumpyjambo]

Her Majesty's Armed Forces are beyond reproach. You'll find that it's the trigger happy cops that let the side down, as in the de Menezes incident. Why, I can also recall they shot and killed someone who was carrying a table leg.

 

 

FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rofl:

 

They are the same as any army on the battlefield - ruthless and kill or be killed.

[billco98]

Whereas the Black and Tans' behaviour was just exemplary, wasn't it?

 

The troubles started in part because Catholics were sick of being treated like second class citizens. I deplore what McGuinness and his ilk did, but it was a political problem, as was ultimately recognised and partly resolved. If Adams and McGuinness had been assassinated, it'd have been an absolute disaster for the people of Northern Ireland: simple as that.

 

Well said, Shaun.

[billco98]

In part?

What was the other part?

 

For much of the Provisional IRA's time Catholics were not treated as second class citizens.

Even before that a number of their complaints related to issues which affected working class Protestants in exactly the same way.

 

If you look at Sinn Fein's manifesto, the political problem was the lack of a Marxist state in all Ireland.

That isn't a great deal closer.

And they always had the option of cultivating success at the ballot box, which they managed in part through intimidation and fraud.

 

Terrorism is never the answer to a political problem, certainly not in a democracy.

 

 

It?s a case of either selective memory or, if you are not old enough, selective reading on your part.

 

Extremist reactions are spawned in the ponds of political despair. The situation for the Catholic minority of Northern Ireland was becoming more and more intolerable on the throughout the 1960?s.

 

The troubles in Northern Ireland stemmed from the ethos of Protestant supremacy. Democracy failed the Catholic Nationalist minority. In 1969 they marched for their Civil Rights to be recognised and got their heads smashed for their pains by the Loyalist Special Constabulary, the infamous ?B? Specials. Not long after that the armed struggle kicked off.

 

Unfortunately there are many grizzly similarities between Palestine and Ireland.

[billco98]

That was in 1918 Shaun, hardly comparable to the IRA terrorists.

 

Only one of the most shameful periods in British History and, sad to say, quite a large number were Scot's were involved..

[JamboSean]

Only one of the most shameful periods in British History and, sad to say, quite a large number were Scot's were involved..

 

I've heard all about it first hand mate, these guys were glorified murderers.

[Simon]

It?s a case of either selective memory or, if you are not old enough, selective reading on your part.

 

Extremist reactions are spawned in the ponds of political despair. The situation for the Catholic minority of Northern Ireland was becoming more and more intolerable on the throughout the 1960?s.

 

The troubles in Northern Ireland stemmed from the ethos of Protestant supremacy. Democracy failed the Catholic Nationalist minority. In 1969 they marched for their Civil Rights to be recognised and got their heads smashed for their pains by the Loyalist Special Constabulary, the infamous ?B? Specials. Not long after that the armed struggle kicked off.

 

Unfortunately there are many grizzly similarities between Palestine and Ireland.

 

What were these civil rights that Catholics were denied? Did working class Protestants not also suffer the same hardships as their Catholic neighbours?

[Drew]

The IRA never had anything like the full support of the nationalist population in Ireland. Many innocent Catholics were killed by the IRA during the troubles. The loyalists had been armed and organised since 1912 and the UDA itself formed out of a series of vigilante groups afraid of the rise of the IRA.

 

The Paras managed to kill 1 IRA man on Bloody Sunday. My own take is that it was an unforunate mix of a deadly and aggressive division of the British army combined with some ill-advised and misled protesters (days before, an anti-internment march had resulted in CS gas being deployed) led to an unimaginable tragedy that only forced people towards the IRA. On the other hand, the Paras also lost 16 men along with 2 Queen's Own Highlanders during the double IRA attack at Warrenpoint.

 

You can debate the wrongs and rights of the troubles until you are blue (or green if you will) in the face, but for every "tit" there is a "tat" and the discussion is always ultimately fruitless. It is better to understand than to judge.

 

Shaun, for some excellent internet reading, go to http://www.cain.ulst.ac.uk where you can find just about anything you want to know about the troubles.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

Quite an interesting thread this, serious debate in a subject I have a little interest in and hardly any name-calling! More of it please.

Uly, being a lazy booger, where can I find out more about the Irish Civil War as its not a subject taught too much in schools here?

 

:107years:

[Sheriff Fatman]

I had forgotten about that one.

 

I was at Heathrow Airport not long after armed police appeared at our airports for the first time. I remember browsing the bookshop for some in-flight reading material (stop tittering at the back) and happened upon a copper with his sub-machine gun. He was thumbing through a book - The History of the SAS.

 

You do know that the police use ex-special forces personel to train the firearms officers? Maybe the guy was just looking for imformation about things he had been told about by his instructor.

 

Many of the more specialised armed branches of the Met such as the Terrorist Support Group, parts of Special Branch and the close protection units train regularly with the SAS.

 

An old friend of mine was a fire arms instructor for the Met, he told me that if he had still been doing that job at the time of the incident with the Brazilian guy he would have booted their arses, not for killing the guy but for wasting ammunition and not using their firearms as they are instructed to do. The major failure was with the intelligence and the senior officers who made a pigs ear of the whole operation, the firearms officers were a bit over enthusiastic.

[shaun.lawson]

The IRA never had anything like the full support of the nationalist population in Ireland. Many innocent Catholics were killed by the IRA during the troubles. The loyalists had been armed and organised since 1912 and the UDA itself formed out of a series of vigilante groups afraid of the rise of the IRA.

 

The Paras managed to kill 1 IRA man on Bloody Sunday. My own take is that it was an unforunate mix of a deadly and aggressive division of the British army combined with some ill-advised and misled protesters (days before, an anti-internment march had resulted in CS gas being deployed) led to an unimaginable tragedy that only forced people towards the IRA. On the other hand, the Paras also lost 16 men along with 2 Queen's Own Highlanders during the double IRA attack at Warrenpoint.

 

You can debate the wrongs and rights of the troubles until you are blue (or green if you will) in the face, but for every "tit" there is a "tat" and the discussion is always ultimately fruitless. It is better to understand than to judge.

 

Shaun, for some excellent internet reading, go to http://www.cain.ulst.ac.uk where you can find just about anything you want to know about the troubles.

 

Cheers Drew: that looks like an excellent resource. Welcome to Kickback, by the way!

[shaun.lawson]

In what way are the British forces in Northern Ireland an illegal army?

 

It also presupposes that migrants to a country have to expect a bit of discrimination which they have less right to complain about than native born people.

 

No it doesn't: it makes the contention that already settled inhabitants have more justification in rising up if they feel their home has been 'taken' from them (though I'm aware of all the problems and contradictions that arise from such a catch-all statement, which will obviously be dubious in places).

 

I'm withdrawing the illegal army assertion in any case, given what Uly and you have said. I clearly need to read up on all this - and am grateful to you both for the points you've raised, and the lack of name-calling too.

[billco98]

What were these civil rights that Catholics were denied? Did working class Protestants not also suffer the same hardships as their Catholic neighbours?

 

Of course the working class Protestants suffered the same socio/economic problems as their Catholic cousins. The main difference was that the Catholics were Gerrymandered out of their Democratic rights. They had no say in their future in a supposed democracy. The fact that the working class Protestants lived at the same level of abject deprivation as the Catholics was ironic. The Unionist elite, with the nod of there overlords in London, were happy to exploit the poverty of the Protestant working class by stirring up and maintaining the sectarian divide.

 

The Left in Northern Ireland was effectively neutralised. The Catholic and Protestant working class had much more in common with each other than they realised but there was no unifying political party to represent their common needs. The Unionists were happy to use the classic tool of British Imperialism - 'divide and rule'. Thousands of dead on both sides was the result, not to mention the deaths of hundreds of British servicemen whose unhappy task it was to keep them apart.

 

The shame is that there are many on this website who are happy to go along with the foul notion which resulted in such carnage in 20th Century Ireland. Sad to say, the block-headed, hate filled rhetoric of the Unionist Orange elite still survives in the minds of many on this board to the extent that can be judged by their vile solicitations; they would be happy to see the whole sordid episode kick off again. Shame on them and they know who they are.

[shaun.lawson]

Of course the working class Protestants suffered the same socio/economic problems as their Catholic cousins. The main difference was that the Catholics were Gerrymandered out of their Democratic rights. They had no say in their future in a supposed democracy. The fact that the working class Protestants lived at the same level of abject deprivation as the Catholics was ironic. The Unionist elite, with the nod of there overlords in London, were happy to exploit the poverty of the Protestant working class by stirring up and maintaining the sectarian divide.

 

The Left in Northern Ireland was effectively neutralised. The Catholic and Protestant working class had much more in common with each other than they realised but there was no unifying political party to represent their common needs. The Unionists were happy to use the classic tool of British Imperialism - 'divide and rule'. Thousands of dead on both sides was the result, not to mention the deaths of hundreds of British servicemen whose unhappy task it was to keep them apart.

 

The shame is that there are many on this website who are happy to go along with the foul notion which resulted in such carnage in 20th Century Ireland. Sad to say, the block-headed, hate filled rhetoric of the Unionist Orange elite still survives in the minds of many on this board to the extent that can be judged by their vile solicitations; they would be happy to see the whole sordid episode kick off again. Shame on them and they know who they are.

 

The exact lamentation of Robert Peel about the Ultra Tories in the 1820s. That it's still the case even now says it all, frankly.

[lesterbangs]

The exact lamentation of Robert Peel about the Ultra Tories in the 1820s. That it's still the case even now says it all, frankly.

 

Shaun, could I suggest Eammon McCann's War And An Irish Town to you...

 

It's not exactly bi-partisan (though avowedly non-sectarian) but is the best book I have read on the North.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Shaun, could I suggest Eammon McCann's War And An Irish Town to you...

 

It's not exactly bi-partisan (though avowedly non-sectarian) but is the best book I have read on the North.

 

Are you the same Lesterbangs that posts on the NME forums?

[lesterbangs]

Are you the same Lesterbangs that posts on the NME forums?

 

Mibbies. Why?

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Mibbies. Why?

 

Just wondering your thoughts on Albert Kidd and Poppies

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun, could I suggest Eammon McCann's War And An Irish Town to you...

 

It's not exactly bi-partisan (though avowedly non-sectarian) but is the best book I have read on the North.

 

Cheers. I'm going to have quite a bedtime reading list at this rate!

[lesterbangs]

Just wondering your thoughts on Albert Kidd and Poppies

 

Well, presumably you know (do you post on there btw?). Lets not take an interesting and thought-provoking thread off-topic for no particular reason.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Well, presumably you know (do you post on there btw?). Lets not take an interesting and thought-provoking thread off-topic for no particular reason.

 

 

I don't post no, your delightful insights on that website were shared with me by another poster on this site who was shocked to see you surface on here.

 

I personally think your postings on that other site are very relevant to this topic.

 

Is there a particular reason you don't wish to share them with us?

[lesterbangs]

I don't post no, your delightful insights on that website were shared with me by another poster on this site who was shocked to see you surface on here.

 

I personally think your postings on that other site are very relevant to this topic.

 

Is there a particular reason you don't wish to share them with us?

 

Not really, no. But as I say, it would (hugely) unnessecarily derail this thread.

[Ulysses]

Cheers. I'm going to have quite a bedtime reading list at this rate!

 

You can shorten the list by leaving out McCann. He's a Trot, and talks through his arse.

[shaun.lawson]

You can shorten the list by leaving out McCann. He's a Trot, and talks through his arse.

 

My brother's a Trot too. And most assuredly, he talks through his arse like you wouldn't believe!

[Drew]

To return to Michael Stone...a total nutjob. I'm not sure his killing of Adams or McGuinness would have affected the peace process as I think most recognised a long time ago that he needs to be in an asylum. When he was in jail he started trying to take credit for killings that he didn't actually do. Fortunately I think people at the time of Milltown recognised Stone as a renegade and statistics for violence all dropped for 1988 relative to 1987 (although both were higher than 1986, the Provos were at the time proving to their rank and file that they still had the balls for armed struggle after entering the Irish Dail the previous year).

 

There are alot more politically minded folk in Sinn Fein these days in any case. Not that many loyalists would have minded of course.

 

Thanks for the welcome Shaun.

[Boab Mugabe]

I don't think anyone can deny there were truly terrible things done by both sides over hundreds of years, though in such an emotive issue for everyone involved it's understandable to see how easily everything kicked off and why people did what they did. I agree fully with an earlier post that it's better to try to understand the actions of both sides rather than put blame on everyone's doorstep.

 

To reverse the situation though, let's say that Sinn Fein had succeeded in its goal of having the entire 32 counties in Irish control. Does anyone genuinely believe the Unionist communities would have been given a fair hearing in the D?il? The 'Narf' was always regarded as different by lots of Southerners - in lots of cases and attitudes displayed by lots of people, the Republicans in Northern Ireland were made to feel 'less' Irish by their southern counterparts, never mind if you were a Unionist!

 

I was never one to believe that the Ulster conflict was ever really about religion (despite the efforts of some to spin it that way) - I believe it was about nationality. Of course it was a factor for some, but I do not believe it was the principal factor of the conflict.

[Sherlock]

...Many innocent Catholics were killed by the IRA during the troubles...

 

More catholics were killed by the IRA during the troubles than by any other organisation, proscribed or otherwise.

[Drew]

Well yeah, but only just. 341 killed by the IRA, 278 by the UVF and 253 by the Army. The emphasis was on the word innocent.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

Well yeah, but only just. 341 killed by the IRA, 278 by the UVF and 253 by the Army. The emphasis was on the word innocent.

 

Not argueing mate but can you give a link to where these figures came from!

[siegementality]

Her Majesty's Armed Forces are beyond reproach. You'll find that it's the trigger happy cops that let the side down, as in the de Menezes incident. Why, I can also recall they shot and killed someone who was carrying a table leg.

 

 

What absolute bolloxs.

 

You always amuse me with your plastic loyalist views. If you want to be a REAL loyalist try looking the meaning up, here's a wee help:

 

"a loyalist is one who maintains loyalty to an established government, political party, or sovereign, especially during war or revolutionary change. In modern English usage, the most common application is to loyalty to the British Crown."

 

Given the police are part of the "established government and the British Crown (in England, Wales and NI at least)" then you constantly having a pop at them is hardly the actions of a loyalist (although I'm sure you'll retort with your "I'm a traditionalist" pesh).

 

I have a friend who was an officer in the RUC. He was in the job 4 months when he was shot several times to the legs and buttocks by a PIRA hit squad who ambushed their rural police station. As they drove away they saw he was still moving and all he heard was their car reversing back toward him. They fired another three shots (again hitting him in the legs) before they made off. He survived and went on to serve another 17 years in the RUC during which time his Land Rover was the victim of a mortar attack and he (when he later got a job in intelligence) and his family twice had to do a 'moonlight flit' by helicopter as they had received information that a PIRA cell were coming to kill them.

 

The next time I see him I'll let him know you think it's guys like him that "let the side down".

 

Incidentally, I've yet to read anything to suggest that any police officer shot people on 30/01/72.

 

P.S. I meant to add, he also had two sticks, each with a mirror tied to the bottom so he and his Mrs could check under their cars before getting in on EVERY journey they made. Still the things you do for Queen and country eh, or is that only the Armed Services?

[The Vulture]

A friend who lives outside Belfast said that Stone wants to go back to prison as his boyfriend is still inside doing time.

 

With regards to the troubles, the main event that started it was Bloody Sunday, prior to that many catholics saw the IRA as a joke, but after that it was easy recruiting into the Republican cause.

 

I'm glad that there is a ceasefire now in Northern Ireland, have spent many a happy weekend there on both sides of the divide. Great people who like a drink and enjoy life.

 

In one of the earlier threads someone said that 1 IRA gunman was shot on Bloody Sunday. I wasn't aware of that. As far as I was aware all those killed were there for the civil rights march.

[Drew]

Not argueing mate but can you give a link to where these figures came from!

 

Same link as I posted before mate http://www.cain.ulst.ac.uk you go to the statistics and can access the Sutton index of deaths. Go to crosstabulations and you can view religion by organisation summary (organisation is those who killed and status is those who were killed).

 

There was 1 IRA man shot on Bloody Sunday, as you can see if you read Lost Lives by David McKittrick among others; Gerard Donaghy, who is listed on the republican roll of honour. There is no evidence that he was carrying a weapon and his death is likely pure coincidence, although his involvement in the protest is likely not.

 

Incidentally, while there are many anecdotal accounts of the army being greeted with cups of tea and sandwiches in 1969 and 1970, this all stopped after the Falls curfew and the introduction of internment in 1971. Either event could be pointed to as being just as big a boost for IRA recruitment prior to Bloody Sunday (the IRA were more than active by this point and it is well documented that Martin McGuinness was commanding the IRA in Derry that particular day). Information on both is available at the same link above.

[Drew]

 

P.S. I meant to add, he also had two sticks, each with a mirror tied to the bottom so he and his Mrs could check under their cars before getting in on EVERY journey they made. Still the things you do for Queen and country eh, or is that only the Armed Services?

 

This was eventually no longer sufficient, as IRA booby trap bombs became more sophisticated, they could be disguised to the point where some people did not even notice them on such checks.

[billco98]

Incidentally, while there are many anecdotal accounts of the army being greeted with cups of tea and sandwiches in 1969 and 1970.

 

My brother and I embarked on a tour of Ireland on the Sunday after the British Army entered Belfast (August 1969) to effectively protect the Catholic communities from ethnic cleansing. Hundreds of families had literally been burnt out of their homes by Loyalist mobs.

 

We went by ferry from Stranraer to Larne and because of the troubles decided to get to the Republic by the most direct route. We had to pass through Belfast but we found that the road signs had been removed. We were looking for the road to Newry and Dundalk but ended up driving up the Falls Road.

 

There were barricades built with furniture, old cars, fencing material, etc at every junction of the terraced side streets with the Falls Road. British soldiers with their bayonets fixed were in groups standing on the Falls Road side of each barricade and, yes, they were drinking cups of tea handed over to them by the Catholic residents.

 

We drove to the top of the Falls Road to find a roundabout, each exit of which was barricaded and protected by vigilantes. We came back down the Falls Road and eventually took a right turn down a side road hoping that it would take us out of town and on to Newry. However we noticed at the foot of the hill the road narrowed to a bridge and passage was restricted by what looked like a checkpoint manned by vigilantes. There were cars stopped at the checkpoint with their boot lids and bonnets up. We didn't fancy that so we head back onto the Falls and into the city centre where we eventually found the road to Newry.

 

When we got into the republic at Dundalk we went up a side road to brew up. We heard music playing over a loudspeaker system in the distance and when we investigated found that we were parked near an Army base which was entertaining refugees from Belfast. As we packed up to leave another bus load passed us on the way to the camp.

 

We got to Dublin in the late afternoon where we had intended looking up a pub, down by the Liffey and close to O'Connell Street, which had been recommended to us as serving one of the best pints of Guinness in Ireland at that time. We were diverted by the Guardia around O'Connell Street because of an 'event'. We parked our car near St Stephen's Green and walked back across the Liffey and found the pub. We had noticed a large crowd outside the GPO in O'Connell Street and mentioned this to the barman. Of course he new by our accents that we were Scottish. He said, 'If I were you I wouldn't be going any where near the Post Office - the crowd will be burning the Union Flag.'

 

We had our pint which was indeed superb and headed out of town staying the night at a campsite in County Wicklow.

 

We headed the next day for Waterford. We stopped at the market down of Arklow for a snack. We went into a pub on the main street and order a Guinness and a sandwich. The barman looked at us, bent down and pulled out a newspaper from under the bar, then said 'Somebody threw a petrol bomb through the window of the Protestant Church last night - it didn't ignite, see it's on the front page'. I looked at my brother who was as bewildered as I was. What the hell do we say, 'Oh, what a shame?

 

When we'd had our snack we left sharpish and decided to try another bar. We got exactly the same message. When we got back to the car we noticed we had parked outside a church - yes it was a Protestant Church and, yes, there was a hole in one of the stain glass windows.

 

The rest of our holiday passed off without any further incident. In fact we had a great time. Most of the folk we spoke to felt the same as we did about what was happening in the North - 'it was bloody tragic'.

[grumpyjambo]

My brother and I embarked on a tour of Ireland on the Sunday after the British Army entered Belfast (August 1969) to effectively protect the Catholic communities from ethnic cleansing. Hundreds of families had literally been burnt out of their homes by Loyalist mobs.

 

We went by ferry from Stranraer to Larne and because of the troubles decided to get to the Republic by the most direct route. We had to pass through Belfast but we found that the road signs had been removed. We were looking for the road to Newry and Dundalk but ended up driving up the Falls Road.

 

There were barricades built with furniture, old cars, fencing material, etc at every junction of the terraced side streets with the Falls Road. British soldiers with their bayonets fixed were in groups standing on the Falls Road side of each barricade and, yes, they were drinking cups of tea handed over to them by the Catholic residents.

 

We drove to the top of the Falls Road to find a roundabout, each exit of which was barricaded and protected by vigilantes. We came back down the Falls Road and eventually took a right turn down a side road hoping that it would take us out of town and on to Newry. However we noticed at the foot of the hill the road narrowed to a bridge and passage was restricted by what looked like a checkpoint manned by vigilantes. There were cars stopped at the checkpoint with their boot lids and bonnets up. We didn't fancy that so we head back onto the Falls and into the city centre where we eventually found the road to Newry.

 

When we got into the republic at Dundalk we went up a side road to brew up. We heard music playing over a loudspeaker system in the distance and when we investigated found that we were parked near an Army base which was entertaining refugees from Belfast. As we packed up to leave another bus load passed us on the way to the camp.

 

We got to Dublin in the late afternoon where we had intended looking up a pub, down by the Liffey and close to O'Connell Street, which had been recommended to us as serving one of the best pints of Guinness in Ireland at that time. We were diverted by the Guardia around O'Connell Street because of an 'event'. We parked our car near St Stephen's Green and walked back across the Liffey and found the pub. We had noticed a large crowd outside the GPO in O'Connell Street and mentioned this to the barman. Of course he new by our accents that we were Scottish. He said, 'If I were you I wouldn't be going any where near the Post Office - the crowd will be burning the Union Flag.'

 

We had our pint which was indeed superb and headed out of town staying the night at a campsite in County Wicklow.

 

We headed the next day for Waterford. We stopped at the market down of Arklow for a snack. We went into a pub on the main street and order a Guinness and a sandwich. The barman looked at us, bent down and pulled out a newspaper from under the bar, then said 'Somebody threw a petrol bomb through the window of the Protestant Church last night - it didn't ignite, see it's on the front page'. I looked at my brother who was as bewildered as I was. What the hell do we say, 'Oh, what a shame?

 

When we'd had our snack we left sharpish and decided to try another bar. We got exactly the same message. When we got back to the car we noticed we had parked outside a church - yes it was a Protestant Church and, yes, there was a hole in one of the stain glass windows.

 

The rest of our holiday passed off without any further incident. In fact we had a great time. Most of the folk we spoke to felt the same as we did about what was happening in the North - 'it was bloody tragic'.

 

 

Good post, not many of our resident loyalists are replying to your post.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Good post, not many of our resident loyalists are replying to your post.

 

What should the reply be?

"Did you really?"

[grumpyjambo]

What should the reply be?

"Did you really?"

 

I was thinking more about why the troops were there.

[MacDonald Jardine]

I was thinking more about why the troops were there.

 

They could always focus on the vandalism of Protestant churches.

Or would that just be a measured proportionate response?