The great lie

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

There has been a view espoused in some quarters here about the club having lost its soul and other such cant since Romanov has employed his own methods on the club. A commonly held view stated by the same posters usually involves the throwaway "I wouldn't care if we played in a public park to be rid of him etc. etc."

 

Can someone, therefore, explain to me how this opinion squares with the criticism aimed at Csaba Laszlo? Leaving aside this "committee" thought, let's assume that Csaba was the manager but, hooray, Romanov had left the building. Are you trying to tell me that a mediocre team that had risen to 4th place (as we have done) would have the full backing of our support in these circumstances, because unless we had a new owner willing to splash his or her largesse on the side that is exactly what would happen. I don't think so.

 

Indeed, what annoys us so much about Romanov, deep down, is that he funded one of the best sides in Hearts history and then dismantled it, meaning that the return to mediocrity rankles with us. Therefore, if Romanov was to fund a decent side again (not saying he will and I don't think he will) I think a large number of people would rapidly revise their opinion of him, despite their previous comments and all this "killing the club" wailing would disappear.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

If he stopped killing the club, i for one would stop saying that he's killing the club.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

If he stopped killing the club, i for one would stop saying that he's killing the club.

 

And fair play for saying that.

 

Please note that this isn't a pro Romanov defence. I'm just pointing out that turning that criticism into self-wallowing misery is pretty tiresome and ends up with people missing the point.

[IMA MAROON]

And fair play for saying that.

 

Please note that this isn't a pro Romanov defence. I'm just pointing out that turning that criticism into self-wallowing misery is pretty tiresome and ends up with people missing the point.

 

There is a lot of self-pity. It is boring.

[Charlie-Brown]

1979 parker killing the club, 1994 mercer killing the club, 2004 robinson killing the club, 2008 now it's romanov, seems like anytime there's a period of difficulty.....

[PresidentRomanov]

1979 parker killing the club, 1994 mercer killing the club, 2004 robinson killing the club, 2008 now it's romanov, seems like anytime there's a period of difficulty.....

 

And throughout all these times, the same fans were staying away because of it.

 

I must stress, it wasn't because the football was crap, Hearts weren't winning, and they don't have the moral loyalty, or backbone, to support their team regardless, It was because all these people, were killing the club

[Guest JamboRobbo]

1979 parker killing the club, 1994 mercer killing the club, 2004 robinson killing the club, 2008 now it's romanov, seems like anytime there's a period of difficulty.....

 

 

So people just wanted Pieman out for the sake of it and it wasn't because of the way he was running the club?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

And throughout all these times, the same fans were staying away because of it.

 

Who are these fans who've been staying away since the 70s. Clearly not REAL supporters.

[Dr. Bapswent]

You can see where this thread is going cant you....

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

1979 parker killing the club, 1994 mercer killing the club, 2004 robinson killing the club, 2008 now it's romanov, seems like anytime there's a period of difficulty.....

 

 

You will probably find its the same people doing the whining.

Lots have voted with their feet,thats their decision but if/when the good times come back then i hope they are ashamed of their disloyalty to what still is a great club in a lot of peoples eyes irrelevent of what Vlad gets up to.

 

At the end of the day everybody is entitled to their opinion,but if i ever felt the need to stop going to games then in my mind i would stop being a Hearts supporter.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Yes because running up unsubstainable losses and debts every season which now far surpass our assets isnt killing the club

[Des' Dad]

I think the crticism of Laszlo is dependent on whether you think he is being manipulated by Romanov (or his agent at Tynecastle) as far as tactics and selections are concerned.

His policy of playing so many players out of position whilst not affecting results to a great extent up until now will eventually backfire on him. Of course the maxim "you can only p*sh with the c*ck you've got" springs to mind and whether he is allowed to use the January window to bring in some new players of his choosing remains to be seen.

Until we are convinced that Laszlo is his own man the crticism of his decisions, whilst valid, must remain muted.

[PresidentRomanov]

Who are these fans who've been staying away since the 70s. Clearly not REAL supporters.

 

They come back occasionally, for the odd title challenge, and good cup run, but the owners are never killing the club at these times

 

And no, they're not real supporters.

[Coco]

No manager or management system ever has full support from the fans.

 

Some people on here didn't want a successful manager along the lines of Burley but instead wanted a committee system as if a successful manager was to leave then they would take the good players with them.

 

Some don't want a top Scottish manager as they would go to the OF if they got the chance.

 

Some didn't like a Scottish manager who had success at a lower sized team and won the Cup there - but who was terrible at Hearts (McLean).

 

Some didn't like Levein despite his reasonable record at Hearts.

 

Not sure how any of that could be interpreted as a great lie.

[Charlie-Brown]

The phrase is a clich? , it is partly true & partly an excuse used by stay away or dissatisfied fans. But 4 men i 30 years trying to kill us?

[Samster]

It's a bit like Romanov/the committee getting abuse about team selection and tactics when we lose but no credit when we win.

 

I'm afraid the world doesn't work like that.

[PresidentRomanov]

Yes because running up unsubstainable losses and debts every season which now far surpass our assets isnt killing the club

 

The irony is though, the only time he was popular, was when that's exactly what he was doing, it's only since he's stooped doing what you just criticised him for, that he's getting it in the neck - well apart from when he wrote off that ?12million, but that seems to have been forgotten now

[Cut The Crap]

So to sum up:

 

If Vlad wasn't such an incompetent bell-end, or even if his morally corrupt and reprehensible methods yielded better onfield results, fewer Hearts fans would hate him?

 

Not great as insights go, but it's hard to disagree.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

The irony is though, the only time he was popular, was when that's exactly what he was doing, it's only since he's stooped doing what you just criticised him for, that he's getting it in the neck - well apart from when he wrote off that ?12million, but that seems to have been forgotten now

 

Not true

 

The spending at this club is still far too high, yes its not as bad but we are still spending far too much, and the debt and losses will bear no resemblance to the income or success

 

Secondly re the 12 million written off, I find it hard to get excited about a paper loss which romanov unncessarily incurred a lot of on excessive fees and wages for pish players,compensation payments and so on, especially when all that has happened is romanov has transferred 12 million from the debt to 12 million extra on the asking price for the club

 

Conclusions, romanovs actions are slowly killing the club as we are slowly going into a position of debt we cannot recover from and he is also killing our spirit on the park.

 

I think its far more fair to say romanov is killing the club than any of the others listed.

 

We can only hope he wakes up one day and decides to clear the debt and stop ****ing around, either that or he is hit by a bus and a life insurance policiy kicks in:rolleyes:

[Victorian]

folk could always take the unprecedented step of actually supporting the CLUB with their cash and backing of the team on the pitch, rather than the never ending gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands.

 

the club needs as much cash as it can get it's hands on, who is going to supply the club with cash if it's own supporters wont?

 

romanov is showing no signs of leaving or changing his ways so forget all about being conciencious objectors and get cash into the club.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

folk could always take the unprecedented step of actually supporting the CLUB with their cash and backing of the team on the pitch, rather than the never ending gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands.

 

the club needs as much cash as it can get it's hands on, who is going to supply the club with cash if it's own supporters wont?

 

romanov is showing no signs of leaving or changing his ways so forget all about being conciencious objectors and get cash into the club.

 

 

So thats the reason you never put your hand in your pocket and buy the bevvy's.

Your saving it all up to give to the club.

 

Top Man Victorian......Bravo sir.

[Victorian]

So thats the reason you never put your hand in your pocket and buy the bevvy's.

Your saving it all up to give to the club.

 

Top Man Victorian......Bravo sir.

no that would be silly. a proportion of one's funds must always be set aside for beerage to help ease the pain of watching that utter pish.

[davieholt]

You will probably find its the same people doing the whining.

Lots have voted with their feet,thats their decision but if/when the good times come back then i hope they are ashamed of their disloyalty to what still is a great club in a lot of peoples eyes irrelevent of what Vlad gets up to.

 

At the end of the day everybody is entitled to their opinion,but if i ever felt the need to stop going to games then in my mind i would stop being a Hearts supporter.

 

I really don't think it works that way.

 

There is a spectrum of supporters intensity from die hard - see every game home and away - through Tynie only fans . . . all the way to "I'll watch Hearts if they are playing exciting football but not otherwise" fans.

 

Evey club has this range of support so expecting golfers who occasionally miss a round to watch Hearts to feel guilty because they don't vomit maroon is a bit much. If Hearts start to play goot footie on a semi regular basis then these guys will miss their rounds more and more often.

 

That's the way it has been since the 70's

[Charlie-Brown]

I've been at competitive games in scotland with hearts fans in attendance below 300 and above 35K or even 40K so we all pick & choose

[boabyarsebiscuit]

And fair play for saying that.

 

Please note that this isn't a pro Romanov defence. I'm just pointing out that turning that criticism into self-wallowing misery is pretty tiresome and ends up with people missing the point.

 

With all due respect. It is my humble opinion that expat Hearts fans don't see the picture quite the same as those of us closer to the ground.

 

Ex-pat Hearts fans telling me what to think is pretty tiresome.

[Guest Dipped Flake]

There are some fans who hate Romanov and will not give him any credit. There are others who love him and will back him no matter what he does (not many of those left). Myself, I think the club is now being run in a sensible manner in that costs are being cut, and will continue to be. Romanovs big problem is that he raised our expectations and then failed to deliver. If we had not had our season in the sun, getting 2nd place and a shot at the champions league, we would be much happier now.

I do hate though this 'Romanov is killing our club' mantra that gets repeated over and over again. Romanov saved our club, then severely wounded it through overspending, and is now patching it up again. I will never ever ever regret him taking over from that **** Robinson.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

I really don't think it works that way.

 

There is a spectrum of supporters intensity from die hard - see every game home and away - through Tynie only fans . . . all the way to "I'll watch Hearts if they are playing exciting football but not otherwise" fans.

 

Evey club has this range of support so expecting golfers who occasionally miss a round to watch Hearts to feel guilty because they don't vomit maroon is a bit much. If Hearts start to play goot footie on a semi regular basis then these guys will miss their rounds more and more often.

 

That's the way it has been since the 70's

 

True enough.

My comments where more aimed at the "I'll no be back until Vlad goes brigade".

[Sherlock]

You've got to love these threads... 'I am a better fan than you are. So there. Na na nanana.'

 

Give me strength.

[269miles]

You will probably find its the same people doing the whining.

Lots have voted with their feet,thats their decision but if/when the good times come back then i hope they are ashamed of their disloyalty to what still is a great club in a lot of peoples eyes irrelevent of what Vlad gets up to.

 

At the end of the day everybody is entitled to their opinion,but if i ever felt the need to stop going to games then in my mind i would stop being a Hearts supporter.

 

For crying out loud we are talking about people wanting to be entertained or if that's not possible (and that seems to be the case with HMFC these days) to see a team that at least tries and actually looks like it gives a toss when it's playing. These commodities are in short supply these days. If Vlad/Csaba/whoever can't deliver some of this is it any wonder people are staying away ? To accuse people of 'disloyalty' is ridiculous. Football fans are customers - they have expectations when they pay their hard earned cash.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Not true

 

The spending at this club is still far too high, yes its not as bad but we are still spending far too much, and the debt and losses will bear no resemblance to the income or success

 

Secondly re the 12 million written off, I find it hard to get excited about a paper loss which romanov unncessarily incurred a lot of on excessive fees and wages for pish players,compensation payments and so on, especially when all that has happened is romanov has transferred 12 million from the debt to 12 million extra on the asking price for the club

Conclusions, romanovs actions are slowly killing the club as we are slowly going into a position of debt we cannot recover from and he is also killing our spirit on the park.

 

I think its far more fair to say romanov is killing the club than any of the others listed.

 

We can only hope he wakes up one day and decides to clear the debt and stop ****ing around, either that or he is hit by a bus and a life insurance policiy kicks in:rolleyes:

 

Not true, the shares created are pretty much worthless as long as Hearts are in as much debt as we are and will certainly not be worth anything to UBIG unless Hearts start making profits.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Not true, the shares created are pretty much worthless as long as Hearts are in as much debt as we are and will certainly not be worth anything to UBIG unless Hearts start making profits.

 

 

Anyone who wants to buy hearts will have to pay this 12 million

 

Instead of having the possibility of restructuring a large debt, they would need to find 12 million to pay romanov/ubig.

 

If you really think they have written off this 12 million you are very naive, they fully intend to recover it one way or another should they ever walk away

[Coco]

Anyone who wants to buy hearts will have to pay this 12 million

 

Instead of having the possibility of restructuring a large debt, they would need to find 12 million to pay romanov/ubig.

 

If you really think they have written off this 12 million you are very naive, they fully intend to recover it one way or another should they ever walk away

 

I think that you don't really understand the situation.

[Buffalo Bill]

No management system ever has full support from the fans.

 

 

They would if we ever got a decent one.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Mr Quagmire]

If he stopped killing the club, i for one would stop saying that he's killing the club.

 

i don't think you would tbh, I think you like to moan, It helps you get through the day.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Anyone who wants to buy hearts will have to pay this 12 million

Instead of having the possibility of restructuring a large debt, they would need to find 12 million to pay romanov/ubig.

 

If you really think they have written off this 12 million you are very naive, they fully intend to recover it one way or another should they ever walk away

 

 

Rubbish!!! What are you on? These shares do not have a fixed price of ?1 each! You obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about!

 

The shares will be worth whatever a potential buyer is prepared to pay for them, the same as any other shares. We are ?12m less in debt as a result of the debt to equity transaction - that is an un-disputable FACT, how thick are you?

 

UBIG now own a much larger chunk of shares in HMFC, but if Hearts continue to be debt ridden and have no prospect of returning a dividend to it's share-holders then these extra shares would be as well being printed on toilet paper. You lack of understanding on this matter is quite staggering.

[Coco]

They would if we ever got a decent one.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

There were niggles about Levein from the likes of me - and Levein was a decent manager. There were certainly niggles about GB from some - incredible as it might seem now.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

I think that you don't really understand the situation.

 

 

Very simplistic example

 

Before Share issue - hearts debt 40 mil, romanov sells for 5 mil with debt being taken over by new owner.

 

After share issue - hearts debt 28 million, romanov sells for 17 mil

 

As someone who wants romanov out, I feel the share issue simply entrenched him further and increased the likehood of him killing his club.

 

Before hand although unlikely someone could have bought romanov out and restructured the debt, now they need to find a lot more money upfront

 

This was not a good move for hearts as a club imo no matter how his minions want to sell it

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Rubbish!!! What are you on? These shares do not have a fixed price of ?1 each! You obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about!

 

The shares will be worth whatever a potential buyer is prepared to pay for them, the same as any other shares. We are ?12m less in debt as a result of the debt to equity transaction - that is an un-disputable FACT, how thick are you?

 

UBIG now own a much larger chunk of shares in HMFC, but if Hearts continue to be debt ridden and have no prospect of returning a dividend to it's share-holders then these extra shares would be as well being printed on toilet paper. You lack of understanding on this matter is quite staggering.

 

And romanov can choose to sell them at what price he wants and as far as I am concerned that price rose by 12 million when the shares were issued therefore whilst the debt maybe went down, the cost of anyone wanting to take over hearts didnt.

 

All it means is any takeover needs more cash upfront as they cant restructure that debt anymore.

[Coco]

Very simplistic example

 

Before Share issue - hearts debt 40 mil, romanov sells for 5 mil with debt being taken over by new owner.

 

After share issue - hearts debt 28 million, romanov sells for 17 mil

 

As someone who wants romanov out, I feel the share issue simply entrenched him further and increased the likehood of him killing his club.

 

Before hand although unlikely someone could have bought romanov out and restructured the debt, now they need to find a lot more money upfront

 

This was not a good move for hearts as a club imo no matter how his minions want to sell it

 

I don't think that you understand how the value of shares is derived nor how acquisitions of companies work.

[Tynie b]

You will probably find its the same people doing the whining.

Lots have voted with their feet,thats their decision but if/when the good times come back then i hope they are ashamed of their disloyalty to what still is a great club in a lot of peoples eyes irrelevent of what Vlad gets up to.

 

At the end of the day everybody is entitled to their opinion,but if i ever felt the need to stop going to games then in my mind i would stop being a Hearts supporter.

 

What a load of SH*** you talk!!

 

I have followed Hearts for fekin Years, Mercer, Pieman and before both, NEVER stopped going because of the way the club was run then, HATE Lieman with a ferkin vengence, But the manager picked the team, 90% of the time they tried their best, not always good to watch, except 86 & 98 of course, BUT they gave it their all, most of the time...Have'nt had a season ticket for the last 2 years, Why the Ferk should I pay to watch a load of underachieving ****wits who couldn't give a **** if they win, lose or draw??

Madfud is killing this club, some say slowly, I think the ^^^^ can't wait!!

Csaba jumps around like Dancing Fekin Homer, doesn't mean he knows what he's doing, Honestly, When he first came and spoke to the Journos, I thought Brilliant, what enthusiasm, sounds like a good man manager, and doesn't look like someone the players will **** about with...Now, he sounds like an idiot with his ramblings, looks like an idiot with his jumping around, and his formaton, 4-5-1...2 wins great, 2 bottom clubs, not exactly emphatic scraped both games 1-0....Csabas another puppet, Madfuds a lunatic, Hearts are in SERIOUS trouble!!!

 

Rant Over...

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

With all due respect. It is my humble opinion that expat Hearts fans don't see the picture quite the same as those of us closer to the ground.

 

Ex-pat Hearts fans telling me what to think is pretty tiresome.

 

Each to their own. I didn't realise boarding a plane in January disqualified me from having an opinion but hey ho!

 

All I'm trying to say is that this wailing and gnashing of teeth over the owner's performance shouldn't be used as a mask when saying what people want, viz. a winning football team.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

I don't think that you understand how the value of shares is derived nor how acquisitions of companies work.

 

 

Ultimately for hearts to be taken over romanov would have to agree to sell his shares

 

After the "write off" he will have undoubtadly increased any price he would sell at

 

Dont talk pish about acquisitions etc.

 

The facts are there was no write off of debt, all that happened is romanov made it harder for anyone who wanted to take over hearts, as instead of having to find a way of restructuing the debt and finding the cash romanov wants, they now need to find the figure romanov wanted plus 12 mil.

 

I dont agree with the clubs spin that it was a good day for hearts, it made it even harder for us to get rid of romanov.

[wibble]

Ex-pats do have one advantage. We can, in hindsight, see what a bunch of torn faced gits most Scots are and we understand and expect unbelievable levels of whining and moaning from the populace back in Scotland regardless of the positives or negatives of any particular situation.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Ultimately for hearts to be taken over romanov would have to agree to sell his shares

 

After the "write off" he will have undoubtadly increased any price he would sell at

 

Dont talk pish about acquisitions etc.

 

The facts are there was no write off of debt, all that happened is romanov made it harder for anyone who wanted to take over hearts, as instead of having to find a way of restructuing the debt and finding the cash romanov wants, they now need to find the figure romanov wanted plus 12 mil.

 

I dont agree with the clubs spin that it was a good day for hearts, it made it even harder for us to get rid of romanov.

 

 

You are right in saying that Romanov can set a price. It doesn't mean he'll find many buyers at that price.

 

And, if financial pressures force him to sell, it's a different ball game...

[Cade]

1979 parker killing the club, 1994 mercer killing the club, 2004 robinson killing the club, 2008 now it's romanov, seems like anytime there's a period of difficulty.....

 

Yes but in most of these cases the playing squad at the time were at least trying to dig us out of the hole. Giving everything they had in the name of the club.

 

Right now we have no leadership on or off the park and it seems that the only people who care are the fans.

[davieholt]

Ultimately for hearts to be taken over romanov would have to agree to sell his shares

 

After the "write off" he will have undoubtadly increased any price he would sell at

 

Dont talk pish about acquisitions etc.

 

The facts are there was no write off of debt, all that happened is romanov made it harder for anyone who wanted to take over hearts, as instead of having to find a way of restructuing the debt and finding the cash romanov wants, they now need to find the figure romanov wanted plus 12 mil.

 

I dont agree with the clubs spin that it was a good day for hearts, it made it even harder for us to get rid of romanov.

 

In fact he made it easier !

 

If we assume that before the debt for equity swap, Hearts were worth nothing as a going concern, then after the swap Hearts are only worth the discounted value of the interest saved. Not a lot and certainly nothing like ?12m !!

 

Like it or not the move DID benefit Hearts and I cannot discern any possible ulterior motive.

[Charlie-Brown]

Cade there was the same criticisms both off & on the pitch everytime the clubs fortunes dip.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

In fact he made it easier !

 

If we assume that before the debt for equity swap, Hearts were worth nothing as a going concern, then after the swap Hearts are only worth the discounted value of the interest saved. Not a lot and certainly nothing like ?12m !!

 

Like it or not the move DID benefit Hearts and I cannot discern any possible ulterior motive.

 

 

Utter **** tbh

 

As I said earlier, all that will happen is anyone buying the shares will be expected to pay more to cover the swap thus meaning they no longer have the opportunity to reschedule debt but instead have to find more hard cash.

 

All in all irrelevant as dont think anyone with the funds before or after to take us over would want to anyway sadly, that aside a takeover is harder and needs more ready cash now, at least my opinion anyway

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

What a load of SH*** you talk!!

 

I have followed Hearts for fekin Years, Mercer, Pieman and before both, NEVER stopped going because of the way the club was run then, HATE Lieman with a ferkin vengence, But the manager picked the team, 90% of the time they tried their best, not always good to watch, except 86 & 98 of course, BUT they gave it their all, most of the time...Have'nt had a season ticket for the last 2 years, Why the Ferk should I pay to watch a load of underachieving ****wits who couldn't give a **** if they win, lose or draw??

Madfud is killing this club, some say slowly, I think the ^^^^ can't wait!!

Csaba jumps around like Dancing Fekin Homer, doesn't mean he knows what he's doing, Honestly, When he first came and spoke to the Journos, I thought Brilliant, what enthusiasm, sounds like a good man manager, and doesn't look like someone the players will **** about with...Now, he sounds like an idiot with his ramblings, looks like an idiot with his jumping around, and his formaton, 4-5-1...2 wins great, 2 bottom clubs, not exactly emphatic scraped both games 1-0....Csabas another puppet, Madfuds a lunatic, Hearts are in SERIOUS trouble!!!

 

Rant Over...

 

 

Thanks for that moving response.

[Sherlock]

Each to their own. I didn't realise boarding a plane in January disqualified me from having an opinion but hey ho!

 

All I'm trying to say is that this wailing and gnashing of teeth over the owner's performance shouldn't be used as a mask when saying what people want, viz. a winning football team.

 

What if it's the owners performance (when it comes to interference in team matters) that is what's stopping us from having a winning team?