bbc1 now WATCH AND LEARN !!!!!

[ernie winchester]

Lots of others did it. About 3 million dead and injured. Lots of Rangers, Celtic and Hibs fans included. It's a great story. Let's not demean it.

 

A very good mate of mine who served 3 tours in ireland, U.N. peacekeeping tour and decorated for bravery in the Falklands, was a diehard Celtic fan from Castlemilk. We should all be very proud to be Jambos, but no need for points scoring.

[adeb74]

Not only proud to be a jambo, proud to come from edinburgh.

 

The sacrifice that those men took not only in stiil keeping up their duties towards the suprime sacrifce ahead in the trenches and the training towards that goal but also thier loyalty towards maintaining their contacts towards the club and its supporters....all this while the glasgow sat on it hands and still produced its first team sqaud fully prepared for footballing duties only.

 

I can only hope that those Celtic fans that wanted to protest against the minutes silence on saturday watched this programme - oh and if they still protest their Irish love well i have visited the fields of death and there are many Irish graves of Brave Irish soldiers who fought alongside our soilders.

 

Yes im proud like i said that im a jambo but im even more proud of my heritage and my good edinburgh one at that.

 

Forever Heart of Midlothian and Macrae's Battalion

 

16th Royal Scots

[bigwull22]

agree. apart from the shouting.

 

would like to see this on national tv.

i'm sure fans of these types of documentories and other footbal followers would be interested.

 

maybe a letter to beeb?

 

SORRY but WHEN I drink I lose VOLUME conTROL:)

[portobellojambo1]

Although I have this programme stored on Sky+ I was hoping it might also have been available for download via BBC iPlayer, but cannot find it any where. Will have another look tomorrow when I get home from work.

 

I missed it the first time it was shown, so this evening was my first time of viewing, and it was very moving.

[bigwull22]

Although I have this programme stored on Sky+ I was hoping it might also have been available for download via BBC iPlayer, but cannot find it any where. Will have another look tomorrow when I get home from work.

 

I missed it the first time it was shown, so this evening was my first time of viewing, and it was very moving.

 

It wont be on IPlayer because it wasn't on national BBC, a disgrace:mad:

[ernie winchester]

agree. apart from the shouting.

 

would like to see this on national tv.

i'm sure fans of these types of documentories and other footbal followers would be interested.

 

maybe a letter to beeb?

 

The fans of Leyton Orient would certainly be interested. They have a similar story to tell.

[portobellojambo1]

A very good mate of mine who served 3 tours in ireland, U.N. peacekeeping tour and decorated for bravery in the Falklands, was a diehard Celtic fan from Castlemilk. We should all be very proud to be Jambos, but no need for points scoring.

 

Because of the areas in which they recruited there were a large number of Celtic fans in the K.O.S.B, all fiercely proud of their regiment and the army in general.

[Tazio]

I work next to a guy who is a huge Celtic fan. And a proud ex soldier. Never tar everyone with the same brush.

[Beverley]

its not really the thread for it, but knowing the military bods i do, i had to giggle PJ1 when you said that a lot of the smellies went into the kingos

 

the kingos are talked about like the theives of the regiments, as they are all "theving scousers" lol (army banter, so its not EVER gonna be pc is it now?) so i couldn't help but think how apt

 

well, i sniggered

[nanananananana-angus]

It is not a story it is fact, we should feel superior, we are superior.FTH FTC FTR

 

Isn't the feeling of superiority one of the reasons we humans still feel the need to go to war?

Stop point scoring man.

The day we start to claim the moral high ground will be the day we see anti Hearts graffiti daubed on the Haymarket memorial.

[ernie winchester]

Because of the areas in which they recruited there were a large number of Celtic fans in the K.O.S.B, all fiercely proud of their regiment and the army in general.

 

And quite rightly so. Personally, I never served alongside the K.O.S.B. but experienced active service alongside the Q.O.H. and Argyles (largely O.F.) the Gordons (Dons) the Queens Lancashire Regiment (liverpool and Manchester teams) etc. etc. I've had many football debates with these guys - some heated - but they're all entitled to be proud of their respective Regiments.

 

Suffice to say though, paras are a league above... it's the MAROON berets that do it! Okay, okay, tonight belongs to the 16th Royal Scots!

[bigwull22]

Isn't the feeling of superiority one of the reasons we humans still feel the need to go to war?

Stop point scoring man.

The day we start to claim the moral high ground will be the day we see anti Hearts graffiti daubed on the Haymarket memorial.

 

MOD EDIT

[nanananananana-angus]

......

 

Wow,three firsts in one ...erm sentence.

It's the first time on KB I've been told to f off,it's the the first time I've been called vermin (although I have been called a goat quite recently) and it's the first time I've been called a hobo.

[adeb74]

Wow,three firsts in one ...erm sentence.

It's the first time on KB I've been told to f off,it's the the first time I've been called vermin (although I have been called a goat quite recently) and it's the first time I've been called a hobo.

Call me a hobo again and I'll have you knee-capped.

 

Now Now Children,

 

take a long hard look at what you have just written and the post you have written it on.

 

we are here to discuss heros that were from the great war and you seem to turning this into a idiotic attack between you.

 

Get a grip.

[nanananananana-angus]

Now Now Children,

 

take a long hard look at what you have just written and the post you have written it on.

 

we are here to discuss heros that were from the great war and you seem to turning this into a idiotic attack between you.

 

Get a grip.

 

You're right, not the time or the place,I just reacted rather stupidly to the hobofish sign.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

I just think that we should all feel very humble and very grateful to all those who have made the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of their country.

[Manny1874]

Do people think theres any chance of this being repeated or being posted on the intenet any time soon. Didnt get back from the match in time to see it.

[jamboron]

Missed quite a lot it last night as wasn`t home from work in time for the start, but I`d love it, if it was either repeated or even done on dvd for sale. It seems to have been a very emotional programme & by all accounts the late Bob Crampsey was very good in his discussions about how CFC stayed at home playing their strongest team , whilst HMFC with McCraes boys were fighting for their country.

[SectionDJambo]

Really not trying to score points against anyone on such an emotional episode in the history of all of the football clubs from the east whose players and supporters joined up to fight for their country, but if you take a look at the Daily Record TV listings in Wednesday's edition, this programme is the only one,apart from News/Weather, which does not have a brief description of the content.

I find that rather strange. Why not let the readers know, to encourage it's viewing?

[Seymour M Hersh]

Very moving. An excellent made programme, well done to all concerned. It certainly brought tears to my eyes.

May we NEVER forget their sacrifice.

Proud to support this club even more.

May they RIP

 

geddy

 

Not if you ask Jack Alexander. Iirc he was unimpressed with Wark Clements and especially the director.

[Seymour M Hersh]

IT STILL WASN'T ON NATIONAL BBC THOUGH, OBVIOUSLY THEY DONT WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT THE BIGOT BROS, OR WHAT THE HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN REPRESENT:mad:

 

I'm sure that had absolutely nothing to do with the decision.

[Jambo83]

I missed the first 20 minutes or so but I was completely taken in once I started watching. Almost brought a tear to my eye thinking what these men went through. As a 25 year old, I can't even begin to comprehend..

 

Very very proud of HMFC and also the other clubs involved. As others have said, Hearts have a very unique and proud history in the world of football and that should never be forgotten. I am definitely going to learn more about the war and McRae's Battalion after watching this

[Clerry Jambo]

A very moving programme and seeing the ball with "Hearts FC" on it pulled on the heart strings.

[shaun.lawson]

Not if you ask Jack Alexander. Iirc he was unimpressed with Wark Clements and especially the director.

 

I find that quite reassuring really. It's a rare historian who is satisfied when television get hold of their work: they're two utterly different genres. I've not actually seen the programme, as the pictures wouldn't play when I downloaded it via file sharing; but I listened to it, and it sounded very good to me. The programme did the story justice, which is all you can ask for.

[geddy]

May I ask what Jack Alexander was unhappy with?

I was moved to tears and made to feel proud of my heritage as a Hearts fan, so I would like to know what comments he wasn't happy with.

I know he is an expert on this subject and I would be no doubt better informed on the events if I knew what was inaccurate or unfair.

Thanks for your help....

[londonjambo]

Aaargh !!! Once again, I contrived to miss it.

 

If anyone taped it either on VHS or DVD, could they PM me as I'd like to borrow it to take a copy if thats OK.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

GC

[topcat]

A very moving programme and seeing the ball with "Hearts FC" on it pulled on the heart strings.

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

May I ask what Jack Alexander was unhappy with?

I was moved to tears and made to feel proud of my heritage as a Hearts fan, so I would like to know what comments he wasn't happy with.

I know he is an expert on this subject and I would be no doubt better informed on the events if I knew what was inaccurate or unfair.

Thanks for your help....

 

I can't remember his exact complaints but one was definitely the length of the programme. As SL remarks Historians are never going to be happy with what TV makers or indeed filmakers do with their work. I'm sure Jack wanted 2 one hour programmes and intially Wark/Clements wanted a half hour programme. I think he felt the full story could not be told adequately in such a short time. I don't think there was inaccurate information put out in the documentary.

[Guest juvehearts]

Its NOT listes to rewatch on BBCi Player.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/tv/bbc_one/2008-11-12

 

why is this?

[Banjoheed]

Does anyone have the photo of the players/soldiers with the Hearts FC ball infront of them that they can post on here?

 

Want to download it and make it my screensaver!

 

Appologies - just seen it above!!

[Clerry Jambo]

 

Cheers TC

[Denny Crane]

what about player's?

 

hibs i know. celtic and rangers i thought not.

 

There were a number of Celtic players who signed up - which is why I find the stance taken by some of their supporters bewildering. One such player was Willie Angus who won the Victoria Cross.

[LAIRDY14]

Cheers TC

 

Great photo.

 

Like every other poster I was immensely proud to be a Jambo after watching last night, lump in the throat material it was.

 

What they did, what they endured, what they suffered, what they witnessed must be unimaginable. The thought of being in those trenches and basically knowing what lay ahead must have been ?heart? wrenching.

 

The word hero is mentioned far too easily nowadays, these men were true heroes. To all who fought in the 16th Battalion Royal Scots, we remember, we salute and we?ll never forget.

[billco98]

West Coast **** that they are, just as bad as the French you cowards.

 

MacRae's Battalion, Scotland's proud of you.

 

Now, now lets get the facts right:

 

Go to the Scottish National War Memorial (The Shrine) in Edinburgh Castle. Take a look at the leather bound books that sit on the plinths. There's one for each Scottish Regiment. You will see tens of thousands of names of the dead from every battalion the length and breadth of Scotland. You will find that the West Coast paid just as heavy a price as the rest of the country.

 

A valid point can be made that, for a number of factors including having a higher proportion of regular soldiers in the total standing strength of the British Army, Scotland paid a disproportionately high price in terms of her population (10%) - 140,000 dead (approximately 15%) of the total British and Irish figure of approximately 900,000.

 

And as for the French -their military casualties in WWI were in the order of 1.4 Million dead. I think it is unfair to call them cowards.

[billco98]

The main thing to be proud about as a Hearts supporter is that our lads lead the way in volunteering as a professional football outfit when there was consternation in Britain as whole that football was not pulling its weight. The fact that hundreds of supporters and others sportsman and fans from the surrounding area also joined the Battalion is also something to be very proud and indeed humble about. We owe a debt of gratitude to them and the thousands of others who fought and died in that conflict.

[billco98]

How haunting is the background music.Sitting here watching with my son.Did not think he would be that interested but he is fascinated and can't believe that is how battles were fought in the 1st world war.Nice to watch and feel proud of your club.

 

The two main fiddle tunes that were played were:

 

'The Battle of the Somme' by Pipe Major William Laurie of the 8th Battalion, Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders

 

'Neil Gow's Lament For His Second Wife'.

 

It was a very appropriate choice of music for the subject of the programme.

[grumpyjambo]

Missed it ast night, if anyone has a dvd of the programme that I could borrow please pm me.

 

Thanks.

[Tott]

Missed it ast night, if anyone has a dvd of the programme that I could borrow please pm me.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Theres a link to a download in there somewhere

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?t=34133&page=2

[billco98]

agree. apart from the shouting.

 

would like to see this on national tv.

i'm sure fans of these types of documentories and other footbal followers would be interested.

 

maybe a letter to beeb?

 

I've just posted the following letter to the BEEB.

 

 

For the attention of The Controller - BBC Four TV

 

c/o BBC Television Centre

Wood Lane

LONDON

W12 7RJ

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Ninety Years of Remembrance ~1918-2008

 

I write with regard to the above series on BBC Four which I have found to be very moving and at the same time so informative.

 

It is very important to keep alive the remembrance of those who made the ultimate sacrifice and at the same time to refresh the historical record.

 

It is good to see that school children are being encouraged to learn about the history and social factors surrounding World War I. In this context I wonder if you would let me suggest a theme for future programmes on the subject - namely the contributions made by sportsmen of the time to the war effort.

 

Here in Edinburgh we are very proud of the role played by the players of Heart of Midlothian FC who, in October 1914, enlisted en bloc for active service together with hundreds of supporters. There was consternation in Britain at the time that football was not pulling its weight. Able-bodied players and supporters were carrying on as normal while soldiers on the Western Front were dying in their thousands. The story is told beautifully in the book McCrae’s Battalion (16th Battalion, Royal Scots), by Jack Alexander. BBC Scotland commissioned the documentary ‘Supreme Sacrifice’ based on Mr Alexander’s book with the commentary given by actor Ken Stott. This was shown for a second time on BBC 1 (Scotland) on Wednesday 12 November 2008. I am sure this very poignant and informative programme would be of interest to a Network audience.

 

I understand that a new book has been published on the part played by the Footballers' Battalion, 17th Battalion, Middlesex Regiment. I also understand that Leyton Orient and some other clubs have a similar story to Hearts.

 

Information

 

‘Supreme Sacrifice’ ~ Wark-Clements production for BBC Scotland

Link: http://www.groovyeditor.tv/Credits%201x.html

 

‘McRae’s Battalion’ ~ Jack Alexander - Published by Mainstream Publishing (23 Oct 2003) Still in print.

 

Link: http://www.laurahird.com/newreview/mccraesbattalion.html

 

When the Whistle Blows: The Story of the Footballers' Battalion in the Great War ~ A Riddoch & J Kemp - The History Press Ltd (1 Aug 2008)

 

Link:http://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Whistle-Blows-Footballers-Battalion/dp/0750944919

 

Other Clubs with similar experiences in WWI.

 

Link: http://ourhistory-hayes.blogspot.com/2007/09/football-battalion-ww1-during-world-war.html

 

 

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

loved the part about a lad sending a box of soil home with instructions on how much water to add for that trench effect.

 

great programme even on 2nd viewing.

Sort of looked into the events alot 2years ago when it first aired so learned nothing new hence its the small details like above that stood out on this viewing.

[Poseidon]

Should maybe be in a thread of it's own but never mind.

 

Was hoping to get a bit of advice on Contalmaison. I'm going to be in Paris for a few days in March and was going to hire a car and head up to the area for the day (I presume car is the only sensible option?) There'll only be 2 of us so assumed a tour would be too expensive. Anyway, am hoping to see as much as possible while I'm up there so if anyone has been and can recommend the best places to go/things to see in the area it would be much appreciated.

 

Have had a look on the war memorial website and notice there are loads of great links to check out but was just looking to get other ideas too.

 

Thanks in advance.

[gordon the jambo]

bring a tear to a glass eye!! This what we are all about and why no matter what happens on the park we are the greatest club in world football history

 

spot on my friend not like the pykie **** down lochend whose claim to fame is starting up the tattie munchers :107years:

[The White Cockade]

the people on here spouting their usual bile about Hibs, Celtic or whoever and trying to points score over other teams are demeaning the memory of the men who gave their lives so bravely and have no idea of what it was all about

get a grip

don't cheapen the greatest moment in our teams history

[billco98]

the people on here spouting their usual bile about Hibs, Celtic or whoever and trying to points score over other teams are demeaning the memory of the men who gave their lives so bravely and have no idea of what it was all about

get a grip

don't cheapen the greatest moment in our teams history

 

A point well made.

[micole]

The main thing to be proud about as a Hearts supporter is that our lads lead the way in volunteering as a professional football outfit when there was consternation in Britain as whole that football was not pulling its weight. The fact that hundreds of supporters and others sportsman and fans from the surrounding area also joined the Battalion is also something to be very proud and indeed humble about. We owe a debt of gratitude to them and the thousands of others who fought and died in that conflict.

 

Firstly let me say that we should NEVER forget all of those men who died in WW1 or any other conflict for that matter,but when i think of those who perished in that war i get angry, hundreds of thousands of soldiers really died for nothing that is the harsh reality of it. I have had the privilage of actually (some time ago) chatting to some WW1 vets and they themselves asked the very same question what was it all for? they were a very cynical bunch. WW1 was a case of i've got a bigger gun than you and men were thrown into slaughter, that conflict just fuelled the flames for a more sinister war a couple of decades later. Please don't get me wrong here, i have nothing but the most highest admiration for these people so much so i try and attend the Normandy commemerations most years and just love to talk with the vets they really have a bond that none of us can understand unless you have experienced it, one thing they all have in common they HATE! war with a passion and if they had to do it again they might not be so gung ho. I suspect that if the men of McCraes batallion had it all to do again they might have a different outlook on things.

[billco98]

Firstly let me say that we should NEVER forget all of those men who died in WW1 or any other conflict for that matter,but when i think of those who perished in that war i get angry, hundreds of thousands of soldiers really died for nothing that is the harsh reality of it. I have had the privilage of actually (some time ago) chatting to some WW1 vets and they themselves asked the very same question what was it all for? they were a very cynical bunch. WW1 was a case of i've got a bigger gun than you and men were thrown into slaughter, that conflict just fuelled the flames for a more sinister war a couple of decades later. Please don't get me wrong here, i have nothing but the most highest admiration for these people so much so i try and attend the Normandy commemerations most years and just love to talk with the vets they really have a bond that none of us can understand unless you have experienced it, one thing they all have in common they HATE! war with a passion and if they had to do it again they might not be so gung ho. I suspect that if the men of McCraes batallion had it all to do again they might have a different outlook on things.

 

I could not agree with you more. The word HATE was used in an appropriate context by the veterans you spoke to.

 

My father fought in WWII. He did not HATE Germans when he came back. The Nazis and their War came about as a direct result of the Imperialist War of 1914-1918. Unfortunately millions had to die to satisfy the blood lust of the German Emperor cousin of our own King at that time. Adolf Hitler and his evil creed were spawned out of the Treaty of Versailles and its collective punishment of the German people for the Kaiser's War.

 

We must however not let any of that get in the way of commemorating the sacrifice however futile of those brave men on both sides of that conflict.

 

The HATE word is banded about on this site with a relish - if only those who glibbly use that word would realise where hatred takes man. What comes over on every page of Jack Alexander's wonderful book is the common decency of the lads involved. I somehow don't think they would approve of some of the sentiments portrayed on this site.

[redjambo]

I could not agree with you more. The word HATE was used in an appropriate context by the veterans you spoke to.

 

My father fought in WWII. He did not HATE Germans when he came back. The Nazis and their War came about as a direct result of the Imperialist War of 1914-1918. Unfortunately millions had to die to satisfy the blood lust of the German Emperor cousin of our own King at that time. Adolf Hitler and his evil creed were spawned out of the Treaty of Versailles and its collective punishment of the German people for the Kaiser's War.

 

We must however not let any of that get in the way of commemorating the sacrifice however futile of those brave men on both sides of that conflict.

 

The HATE word is banded about on this site with a relish - if only those who glibbly use that word would realise where hatred takes man. What comes over on every page of Jack Alexander's wonderful book is the common decency of the lads involved. I somehow don't think they would approve of some of the sentiments portrayed on this site.

 

I couldn't agree more. Quite a number of posters on JKB show levels of hate towards other clubs, other fans, other players, and other cities that make you despair. Pride in Hearts, in our fans, in our players and in our city does not mean that we need to hate others.

[Buffalo Bill]

I watched this first time around and I watched it again last night.

 

It brought tears to my eyes both times.

 

I am very proud to be a Heart of Midlothian supporter. I can only imagine the carnage that these poor, brave lads were subjected to.

 

WWI: a horrible, horrible war.

[billco98]

I couldn't agree more. Quite a number of posters on JKB show levels of hate towards other clubs, other fans, other players, and other cities that make you despair. Pride in Hearts, in our fans, in our players and in our city does not mean that we need to hate others.

 

An interesting fact:

 

Unscramble the letters of the word 'HEARTS' and they can be reformed into another word - 'HATERS'.

 

I think it is time we convinced the 'HATERS' that Hearts are above that base emotion. In the name of the Hearts men of 1914-1918 we should banish the word. There should certainly be no place for it in a football context.

 

Tin hat at the ready.

[micole]

An interesting fact:

 

Unscramble the letters of the word 'HEARTS' and they can be reformed into another word - 'HATERS'.

 

I think it is time we convinced the 'HATERS' that Hearts are above that base emotion. In the name of the Hearts men of 1914-1918 we should banish the word. There should certainly be no place for it in a football context.

 

Tin hat at the ready.

 

No tin hat required, football is just a game, HMFC are just a football club albeit the greatest ( i know it's a way of life for a lot of people) BUT! war is a dirty messy business literatly life and death, and there is NOTHING glorious about death. The men who took part in WW1 marched of into what most of them thought would be a great adventure i bet you that quickly evaporated after a couple of days in the trenches as i have said before a total waste of young lives but regardless of this i agree with you that we should never forget them if for nothing else to teach us the futility of war.