The sectarian divide in Edinburgh - Ian Rankin

[Jamblow]

Having attended a Catholic School in Edinburgh a long time ago. If Hibs are a Catholic club someone forgot to tell the school children there. I can exclusively confirm that there were fans of all football teams in attendance (yes even Rangers). Hibs do have Catholic roots but they are shock horror Contrary to media opinion I think football transcends sectarianism. But I would suggest that there is an element that follows Hearts that use the club as a avenue for their far right wing views. These fellas do their own cause more harm than good - their own behaviour is their own downfall. If these guys are the master race god help us all.

[deesidejambo]

Ian Rankin. If thats your level of analysis of Hearts & Hibs and if its so "black and white" as you say it is, then you don't understand Edinburgh or football. Get back tae Ballingry or whatever skank town you came from, but stay away from Tynie or Easter Road.

[PresidentRomanov]

I think Ian Rankin has a point.

 

My friend went to Saint Augustines school, and he said he was one of about three Hearts supporters there, the rest were all Hibs or Celtic.

 

For a school located where it is, there has to be a reason for this, I went to Leith Academy, and there was more Hearts supporters there than that

[MacDonald Jardine]

I think Ian Rankin has a point.

 

My friend went to Saint Augustines school, and he said he was one of about three Hearts supporters there, the rest were all Hibs or Celtic.

 

For a school located where it is, there has to be a reason for this, I went to Leith Academy, and there was more Hearts supporters there than that

 

Of course he has a point.

A high proportion of Hibs' support is Catholic, way out of proportion to the population of Catholics in Edinburgh and the Lothians.

That's not surprising given their background.

Doubtless this makes me a bigot though.

[K1874M]

What were we talking about again?

 

Joe Mangle reckons hearts fans read Rankin books whilst watching pebble mill?

[Boris]

Of course he has a point.

A high proportion of Hibs' support is Catholic, way out of proportion to the population of Catholics in Edinburgh and the Lothians.

That's not surprising given their background.

Doubtless this makes me a bigot though.

 

Any stats to back that up?

 

Also, just because one side may have a higher percentage of one religion following them does not mean that the other side must be the religious opposite.

[deesidejambo]

Of course he has a point.

A high proportion of Hibs' support is Catholic, way out of proportion to the population of Catholics in Edinburgh and the Lothians.

That's not surprising given their background.

Doubtless this makes me a bigot though.

 

That is true but thats not the point Rankin was making. He said "Hibs catholic Hearts protestant" as if the two are mutually exclusive. Now us and the vermin (and probably Rankin himself) know that there is a lot more to it than that and there are many many exceptions (for example my brother is a Protestant Hibee!) but the way Rankin broadcasts it to the whole of the UK is that there is a clear sectarian divide in Edinburgh. That is misleading.

[Tasavallan]

That is true but thats not the point Rankin was making. He said "Hibs catholic Hearts protestant" as if the two are mutually exclusive. Now us and the vermin (and probably Rankin himself) know that there is a lot more to it than that and there are many many exceptions (for example my brother is a Protestant Hibee!) but the way Rankin broadcasts it to the whole of the UK is that there is a clear sectarian divide in Edinburgh. That is misleading.

Rankins' "Catholic Hibs, Protestant Hearts" quote was part of his piece on Edinburgh where he was describing to the nation the contradictions in Edinburgh society (Jean Brodie v Transpotting). Just a pity he chose to polarise the misconception that both clubs were founded on religion.

 

Hibs were founded by the Irish community in the Cowgate, Hearts by local lads from the Tollbooth. Neither were founded soley on religious grounds.

 

What is clear is that while Rankin may bide in Edinburgh but he'll never be frae it.

[topcat]

I don't know about the tricolour waving minority in EH6 but it does seem as if our corresponding contingent of Union "Jack" enthusiasts appear to disproportionately not hail from Edinburgh itself but are 'out of towners' from our less sophisticated satellite towns. To those of us raised in the cosmopolitan city centre Ian Rankin's comments seem ridiculous but to somebody who grew up in 70s mid Fife it probably makes more sense.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Of course he has a point.

A high proportion of Hibs' support is Catholic, way out of proportion to the population of Catholics in Edinburgh and the Lothians.

That's not surprising given their background.

Doubtless this makes me a bigot though.

 

I need stats backing your first point and clarification of your knowledge about #obo supporters background before I could ever contemplate taking your post serious.

As for the bigot part. Only you really know the truth.

[Colonel Kurtz]

Rankins' "Catholic Hibs, Protestant Hearts" quote was part of his piece on Edinburgh where he was describing to the nation the contradictions in Edinburgh society (Jean Brodie v Transpotting). Just a pity he chose to polarise the misconception that both clubs were founded on religion.

 

Hibs were founded by the Irish community in the Cowgate, Hearts by local lads from the Tollbooth. Neither were founded soley on religious grounds.

 

What is clear is that while Rankin may bide in Edinburgh but he'll never be frae it.

 

Your wrong

Hibernians were formed exclusively for practicing catholics.

The catholic church was aginst integration of the Irish immigrants as they thought it would dilute their powerbase

[Colonel Kurtz]

I don't know about the tricolour waving minority in EH6 but it does seem as if our corresponding contingent of Union "Jack" enthusiasts appear to disproportionately not hail from Edinburgh itself but are 'out of towners' from our less sophisticated satellite towns. To those of us raised in the cosmopolitan city centre Ian Rankin's comments seem ridiculous but to somebody who grew up in 70s mid Fife it probably makes more sense.

 

A fair point.

Mick Mcgahey once pointed out to me in the Cabin that The mine owners deliberately created catholic and proddy villages to avoid solidarity amongst the workers,on the basis if they are kicking lumps out of each other they will never combine to strike.

[deesidejambo]

ffs the origins of either or both clubs could be based on religious grounds. So what? What matters is what the situation is now, as that is what Rankin is portraying. He portrays to the UK on a national TV show with high viewer ratings that Edinburgh has a clear sectarian divide between catholic and prod. That is misleading, and I am very dissapointed in Edinburgh being portrayed as such.

[Vini_Hibs]

I need stats backing your first point and clarification of your knowledge about #obo supporters background before I could ever contemplate taking your post serious.

As for the bigot part. Only you really know the truth.

 

There have been a couple of polls on the Hibees Bounce which have put the percentage of Catholics supporting Hibs at about 50%, although of that number not all are practising Catholics.

 

Even in Glasgow you get rangers supporters who are Catholics.

 

Not sure I agree with some posters regarding the make of our respective suuports in the 19th and early 20th century though, Hibs were very Catholic and so as our main rivals it would make sense that hearts would have a Protestant support. Obviously as time passed that would have diluted. Fans seem to adopt whatever seems to be in opposition to their rivals. For example if no Irish tri-colours were displayed at ER would as many hearts fans feel the need to bring union flags.

 

Have to agree with most posters though the Hibs/hearts demographic is a wee bit more complex

[Brian Whittaker's Tache]

Fire up the

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/

[Genghis Khan]

Your wrong

 

No, you're wrong!

[Eggo]

I thought he drank in a wee pub in Scotland Street? Either way Rankin's knowledge of Edinburgh (like many outsiders) begins and ends with Princess Street, The Castle and the new town. No doubt some old jakey in whatever pub he drinks in is his main source of info.

 

 

 

Its Princes Street not Princess:p and thats from an outsider:p:p:p

[IMA MAROON]

Irish flags in the hibs end, and union flags in the Hearts end.

 

Rankin is right.

[Tynecastle Valhalla]

Ahh the old proverb..........

 

"3and a half inch Floppy is better in the hand than the mangle"

 

 

 

made me chuckle

[Walter Payton]

Irish flags in the hibs end, and union flags in the Hearts end.

 

Rankin is right.

 

Why would that suggest Rankin is right? Surely having a Union flag shows support for the Union, whereas the tricolor would be flown/worn by those with an affinity for the ROI?

[redm]

It's more disappointing that anything else. But that's what happens when you ask people questions about things they don't know or understand. Very much wish he hadn't said that though.

 

As for the religious elements within our support, I'd quite happily put money on it and say that I'd guess 95% of either Hearts or Hibs supporters probably haven't been anywhere near a church in the last few years unless it's for a wedding, christening or funeral.

 

Religious, schmeligious.

[Commander Harris]

It's more disappointing that anything else. But that's what happens when you ask people questions about things they don't know or understand. Very much wish he hadn't said that though.

 

As for the religious elements within our support, I'd quite happily put money on it and say that I'd guess 95% of either Hearts or Hibs supporters probably haven't been anywhere near a church in the last few years unless it's for a wedding, christening or funeral.

 

Religious, schmeligious.

and the 5% that do attend church probably have no interest in taking part in sectarian guff at football matches.

[Dr. Bapswent]

and the 5% that do attend church probably have no interest in taking part in sectarian guff at football matches.

 

Dont you find it odd that many argue till they are blue in the face FOR the right to sing such songs, but no-one/few openly admits being sectarian or supporting that stance?

[redm]

Dont you find it odd that many argue till they are blue in the face FOR the right to sing such songs, but no-one/few openly admits being sectarian or supporting that stance?

 

Can't they just sing hymns or something then? Some of them could be considered really quite rousing.

[deesidejambo]

Can't they just sing hymns or something then? Some of them could be considered really quite rousing.

 

Hearts the herald angels sing?

[Commander Harris]

Dont you find it odd that many argue till they are blue in the face FOR the right to sing such songs, but no-one/few openly admits being sectarian or supporting that stance?

I don't understand why the question is directed at me tbh?

[Dr. Bapswent]

I don't understand why the question is directed at me tbh?

 

No particular reason.

 

You got a guilty conscience?

[redm]

Hearts the herald angels sing?

 

Onward Christian Jambos. That could get the blood flowing....

[Commander Harris]

No particular reason.

 

You got a guilty conscience?

obviously!

 

nah, just seemed a strange question in reply to my comment.

 

to answer it, no I'm not surprised that people don't come out and openly admit sectarian leanings/behaviour.

[davjambo]

Irish flags in the hibs end, and union flags in the Hearts end.

 

Rankin is right.

 

I dont see how six or seven union flags represent a whole support,

so i'm sorry ian rankin is wrong.

[i8hibsh]

Did anyone else hear Fifer, Ian Rankin, broadcast (sad to say I was watching 'The One Show') to the UK at large last night that Hibernian are the 'Catholic' team in Edinburgh and Hearts are the 'Protestant' team. This is the sort of ignorant and simplistic verbal garbage that we could do without. Yes there are many in either support who would say that religion was the prime reason for their allegiance to the club of their choice but the majority do not see it that way. Rankin's 'black and white' (green and orange) statement adds fuel to the sectarian cause which is something both clubs could well do without, aside from giving the wrong impression in other parts of the UK and reinforcing misguided attitudes to the Edinburgh football scene elsewhere in Scotland.

 

I'm by no means a catholic or a protestant but let's be honest ......... we all know what he means.

 

Hearts are more of the right persuasion and Hibs of the left footed persuasion - FACT

[Dr. Bapswent]

I'm by no means a catholic or a protestant but let's be honest ......... we all know what he means.

 

Hearts are more of the right persuasion and Hibs of the left footed persuasion - FACT

 

Not anymore - get over it - FACT

[Stuart Lyon]

Perhaps Ian, who drinks in Swanny's occasionally, could explain the football followers in Cardenden i.e. how many support Dunfermline, Cowdenbeath, East Fife, Raith Rovers, Celtic or Rangers. I have a feeling the majority will support Rangers and Celtic but would love to know why! Are they all just glory hunters?

[deesidejambo]

I'm by no means a catholic or a protestant but let's be honest ......... we all know what he means.

 

Hearts are more of the right persuasion and Hibs of the left footed persuasion - FACT

 

 

We all know what the means but the problem is that he portrayed it to the rest of the country as a mutually exclusive divide. If you take what he said as true, then all Hibs are catholic and all Hearts are protestant. That is just not true and it creates a misleading impression to people watching the programme. My own brother (who must have been dropped on his head as a baby) is a proddy Hibee, so how does Rankin explain that?

[stevieC@pivot]

There WAS only one sectarian club in Edinburgh:

 

Rivalry

Hearts traditional rivals are Hibernian F.C. Hibs were formed as an Irish Catholic team.

 

Hearts lobbied hard for the admission of Hibernians (as they were initially called) into the Scottish Football Association, who initially forbade member clubs to play a "sectarian" side. Hearts played several "illegal" matches with Hibs - being fined every time, which resulted in the two clubs playing another match to pay the fine off - until the SFA acquiesced.

 

From Wiki.

We all know why and how Hearts were formed.

 

He is talking crap!!

[Eggo]

There WAS only one sectarian club in Edinburgh:

 

Rivalry

Hearts traditional rivals are Hibernian F.C. Hibs were formed as an Irish Catholic team.

 

Hearts lobbied hard for the admission of Hibernians (as they were initially called) into the Scottish Football Association, who initially forbade member clubs to play a "sectarian" side. Hearts played several "illegal" matches with Hibs - being fined every time, which resulted in the two clubs playing another match to pay the fine off - until the SFA acquiesced.

 

From Wiki.

We all know why and how Hearts were formed.

 

He is talking crap!!

 

 

 

Debate over...yahoo!

[redm]

I'm by no means a catholic or a protestant but let's be honest ......... we all know what he means.

 

Hearts are more of the right persuasion and Hibs of the left footed persuasion - FACT

 

Be honest, in a crowd of 17k (ish!) per stadium...Tynecastle and Easter Road...how many actual catholics or protestants do you think there are in each?

 

I used to think religion should have nothing to do with football, but I'm quite sure that many church goers wish football would stop poking their nose into religion and using it for mischief.

[davjambo]

There WAS only one sectarian club in Edinburgh:

 

Rivalry

Hearts traditional rivals are Hibernian F.C. Hibs were formed as an Irish Catholic team.

 

Hearts lobbied hard for the admission of Hibernians (as they were initially called) into the Scottish Football Association, who initially forbade member clubs to play a "sectarian" side. Hearts played several "illegal" matches with Hibs - being fined every time, which resulted in the two clubs playing another match to pay the fine off - until the SFA acquiesced.

 

From Wiki.

We all know why and how Hearts were formed.

 

He is talking crap!!

 

Well found stevie, Tell you something else us fighting to get them admitted

will really wind the hobos up.:107years:

[Des' Dad]

You can make your views known directly to Mr Rankin on his website forum

http://www.ianrankin.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48&p=264#p264

Regristration is easy and quick.

[speedbump]

I wish people wouldn't simplify this arguement to simple religious bigotry and hatred.

[vaders uncle]

I was more than shocked to hear Mr Rankin spouting guff last night on the One Show and I have to admit that if it wasn't for Christine Blakely on that show I wouldn't glance at it (is that her name?).

 

Religion should not enter into any football area in my opinion and to have narrow minded individuals going on about catholic and protestant being better than each other is foolish.

 

We all bleed the same colour of blood........maroon or as some people also say deep red (just like the Scotland third strip!!)

[speedbump]

I was more than shocked to hear Mr Rankin spouting guff last night on the One Show and I have to admit that if it wasn't for Christine Blakely on that show I wouldn't glance at it (is that her name?).

 

 

What about Adrian, you wouldn't want to be seen as sexist now would you?

[topcat]

It's true to say that Hearts are the protestant club in Edinburgh in the same way as it is to say that Michael Stewart is ginger, Jimi Hendrix was left handed, Adolph Hitler was a famous vegetarian or that Liz Hurley's is an actress.

 

It's true but it's kind of missing the point

[hmfc_steve]

It's true to say that Hearts are the protestant club in Edinburgh in the same way as it is to say that Michael Stewart is ginger, Jimi Hendrix was left handed, Adolph Hitler was a famous vegetarian or that Liz Hurley's is an actress.

 

It's true but it's kind of missing the point

 

just being pedantic, although Jimi played guitar left handed, he was in fact right handed.... just like me, though maybe a bit better

[topcat]

There WAS only one sectarian club in Edinburgh:

Rivalry

Hearts traditional rivals are Hibernian F.C. Hibs were formed as an Irish Catholic team.

 

Hearts lobbied hard for the admission of Hibernians (as they were initially called) into the Scottish Football Association, who initially forbade member clubs to play a "sectarian" side. Hearts played several "illegal" matches with Hibs - being fined every time, which resulted in the two clubs playing another match to pay the fine off - until the SFA acquiesced.

 

From Wiki.

We all know why and how Hearts were formed.

 

He is talking crap!!

 

Actually there were several sectarian clubs in Edinburgh: The likes of St Bernards, Thistle and Leith Athletic complied with the sectarian boycott enforced by the Edinburgh FA.

 

Typically a Hibs fan would at this point excuse Hibernians' Irish only policy as a product of the discrimination that wouild have supposedly made it inpossible for them to join any mainstream clubs. This is plausible though difficult to prove or disprove so you will probably have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

However not only do Hearts actually come out of this whole episode with nonsectarian credentials intact unlike any other team in Scotland they'd actually taken an actively antisectarian position at risk to themselves.

 

When the more right wing, Hun sympathising, Lith hating, Celtic Obsessed, anti PC type describes themselves as a more "traditional" Hearts Supporter they betray their ignorance of the true heritage of the club.

[topcat]

just being pedantic, although Jimi played guitar left handed, he was in fact right handed.... just like me, though maybe a bit better

 

He could also play right handed and with his teeth, There's a rumour that he once recorded Bob Dylan's 'blowing in the wind' solely by farting on the strings but it was so much better than Bob's version that he refused to let it be released and insisted that the master tapes be burned. The more conventional performance of All along the watchtower is a poor substitute.

[micole]

Rankins statement on national telly is a disgrace, he knows nothing of Hearts & Hibs, when i was a lad i lived 2mile from Tynie and went their because i wanted to go to a match, ever since Hearts have been my team nothing complicated about it, religion never entered my head at the time, all my uncles are Hibbies.When i moved throo to the west GOD! how that all changed a catholic supporting anybody barr cellick, they just could not understand it. Rankin has just pidgeon holed us with the OF which in itself is an insult.

[Le Chat]

There's a rumour that he once recorded Bob Dylan's 'blowing in the wind' solely by farting on the strings but it was so much better than Bob's version that he refused to let it be released and insisted that the master tapes be burned.

 

[The Vulture]

If people followed religion that seriously, would they attend a football game on a Sunday ? Surely Sunday is the day of rest and it should be spent praising the greatness of the lord and not going to the derby or any game to shout horrible abuse to opposition fans and players.

 

As someone said earlier, many people just seem to go to church for weddings, funerals, Christmas etc. I find it funny when non church goers say they are of a certain faith even though they never practice it on a regular basis.

[Cobblers]

I don't know about the tricolour waving minority in EH6 but it does seem as if our corresponding contingent of Union "Jack" enthusiasts appear to disproportionately not hail from Edinburgh itself but are 'out of towners' from our less sophisticated satellite towns. To those of us raised in the cosmopolitan city centre Ian Rankin's comments seem ridiculous but to somebody who grew up in 70s mid Fife it probably makes more sense.

 

Sorry TC but that generalisation is almost as bad as Rankin's.