How long has Vlad got ?

[Sydney from Sydney]

There's too many money rumours doing the rounds to suggest anything other than not all's well in Camp Vlad. Personally I don't think he'll be around for much longer. He appears to have very little interest in us these days, and it's all been down hill football wise since his first full season.

I wonder what odds the bookies would give on him not being around this time next year.

[Guest juvehearts]

There's too many money rumours doing the rounds to suggest anything other than not all's well in Camp Vlad. Personally I don't think he'll be around for much longer. He appears to have very little interest in us these days, and it's all been down hill football wise since his first full season.

I wonder what odds the bookies would give on him not being around this time next year.

 

 

utter rubbish,

vlad will be here until HE wants to sell hearts.

he is getting what he wants out of us, a showcase to sell his eastern european duds.

 

velicka & jancanckas is 2 of the names, miko, chesney, #29 & an other are just a few others.

vlad will still be here in 2 years time

[Towzer]

utter rubbish,

vlad will be here until HE wants to sell hearts.

he is getting what he wants out of us, a showcase to sell his eastern european duds.

 

velicka & jancanckas is 2 of the names, miko, chesney, #29 & an other are just a few others.

vlad will still be here in 2 years time

 

so will miko,chesny and 29

[Tott]

There's too many money rumours doing the rounds to suggest anything other than not all's well in Camp Vlad. Personally I don't think he'll be around for much longer. He appears to have very little interest in us these days, and it's all been down hill football wise since his first full season.

I wonder what odds the bookies would give on him not being around this time next year.

 

How long till what?

 

He owns the club..end.

Dont see a queue of punters lining up to buy him out,do you?

[Charlie-Brown]

How long till what?

 

He owns the club..end.

Dont see a queue of punters lining up to buy him out,do you?

 

Just even one person or consortium would be a start.....the only people that I can see that will buy Hearts are those that will find money or collateral for the club as the last resort from non-existence....people say 2005-06 proved our potential and it certainly did however the (financial) world was a very different place then and money supply and economic propects vastly different than today.....anybody who thinks differently is wishful thinking.

[Jammy T]

How long till what?

 

He owns the club..end.

Dont see a queue of punters lining up to buy him out,do you?

 

Did you see Romanov in the queue when you protested for Robinson to go?

[Jammy T]

economic propects vastly different than today.....anybody who thinks differently is wishful thinking.

 

No one ever will really make money from Hearts, 4 years ago was no different. People have still continually put money in, continually bought us over...

 

...most recently after vociferous protests

[Tott]

Did you see Romanov in the queue when you protested for Robinson to go?

 

Did anybody?

[Jammy T]

Did anybody?

 

Exactly.

 

So, so what if we cant see anyone in the queue just now?

[Charlie-Brown]

Exactly.

 

So, so what if we cant see anyone in the queue just now?

 

Mercer was a last gasp saviour when Hearts had debts of less than ?1M in 1981, Robinson & Deans were the only option when Hearts had debts of less thna ?5M in 1994... Romanov was the ONLY option when Hearts had debts of ?20M in 2004...back then McGrail and Deans and 1 or 2 other at least floated suggestions of how they might buy Hearts and offer detb or mortgage facilities even if they were risky/less than 100% cetain to be viable......until anyone else shows there hand which is extremely doubtful in the current climate then we are groping in the dark big-time, Jammy is wishful thinking. if there was serous interest in Hearts then Mackay and Foulkes and others would be championing their cause but they aren't because there isn't anyone and there is unlikely to be anyone in the near to medium term.

[lost in leith]

There's too many money rumours doing the rounds to suggest anything other than not all's well in Camp Vlad. Personally I don't think he'll be around for much longer. He appears to have very little interest in us these days, and it's all been down hill football wise since his first full season.

I wonder what odds the bookies would give on him not being around this time next year.

 

The interesting (and scary) question is what happens if Vlad isn't in a position to call the shots any more. There's been plenty of info on recent threads about how parts of the UBIG empire are in trouble. We know how much we owe UBIG. What we don't know is how much UBIG owe their creditors, and what will happen if they call in debts that UBIG aren't in a position to repay.

 

Two bits of good news -

 

1. The debt for equity swap. ?12m off the club's debt. Once Vlad controlled over 75% of the shares he could effectively do what he wanted,so controlling over 90% makes little difference. A price worth paying for us.

 

2. The housing slump. Our friends over the road have a wet dream about UBIG going bust and their creditors forcing a sale of Tynie for housing. Fortunately for us there will be little, if any, demand, for the land. THe debt is still there, but I can't see that UBIG's creditors can do much other than looking to restructure the debt in some way. Even if a builder could be persuaded to bid for Tynie, it would take years for any cash to flow to UBIG's creditors. Ironically UBIG going bust might be a godsend, as creditors might take a loss on the debt if they could be guaranteed cash up front.

 

FWIW I have no idea about the deals for the other parcels of land around the ground. I suspect they were all conditional on planning permission for the re-development. Let's face it, that isn't going to happen.

 

Anyway, time for bed. Back on the ale in a few hours

[Coco]

Do we really want a regime who chose to bring in Obua/Tullberg/Mrowiec/Kello/Balogh and Laszlo/Wannaburger and a new goalkeeper coach rather than paying the people who look after the young Hearts players?

 

What sort of people are they?

[Drylaw Hearts]

utter rubbish,

vlad will be here until HE wants to sell hearts.

he is getting what he wants out of us, a showcase to sell his eastern european duds.

 

velicka & jancanckas is 2 of the names, miko, chesney, #29 & an other are just a few others.

vlad will still be here in 2 years time

 

Only one Lithuanian has been sold since he arrived - Velicka.

 

If he is happy with one sale from 15+ players then he really is stupid.

[York Jambo 44]

Always believed in what Vlad was trying to do because buying us at rock bottom price was smart move. With comparatively little cash we were able to put in a real challenge for the League (gap to OF is never as big as we are told) generate huge interest/support and Champs League. Compare that with the millions being poured into clubs down south with no prospect of CL football.

 

Sure there is a foreign investor who would be interested in buying us but only if Vlad wants to sell - and the price will have gone up enough to deter the Munro's of this world.

 

Vlad's lack of communication is biggest frustration so no idea what he thinks now but there are plenty pointers to him wanting out. I think the New Stand and whether that moves forward is the biggest clue to which way he will go.

[Coco]

Always believed in what Vlad was trying to do because buying us at rock bottom price was smart move. With comparatively little cash we were able to put in a real challenge for the League (gap to OF is never as big as we are told) generate huge interest/support and Champs League. Compare that with the millions being poured into clubs down south with no prospect of CL football.

 

Sure there is a foreign investor who would be interested in buying us but only if Vlad wants to sell - and the price will have gone up enough to deter the Munro's of this world.

 

Vlad's lack of communication is biggest frustration so no idea what he thinks now but there are plenty pointers to him wanting out. I think the New Stand and whether that moves forward is the biggest clue to which way he will go.

 

There is a chance that UBIG will have to sell assets at rock bottom prices.

 

Wonder where they are going to get the ?55m of short term financial debt rolled over?

 

Not so easy to fund these days - particularly if you are running a previously loss making aluminium business which was so bad that its capital was wiped out, a real estate business with the savvy to buy a St Andrew Square building absolutely at the top of the market and a football club which made so much in losses that a debt for equity swap was required.

[Francis Albert]

Wonder where they are going to get the ?55m of short term financial debt rolled over?

 

 

?55m?

[Martin_T]

?55m?

 

I think Coco is referring to the accounts on UBIG's website.

[Charlie-Brown]

There is a chance that UBIG will have to sell assets at rock bottom prices.

 

Wonder where they are going to get the ?55m of short term financial debt rolled over?

 

Not so easy to fund these days - particularly if you are running a previously loss making aluminium business which was so bad that its capital was wiped out, a real estate business with the savvy to buy a St Andrew Square building absolutely at the top of the market and a football club which made so much in losses that a debt for equity swap was required.

 

Has the Lithuanian government offered to pump money into their banking system in line with other EU Governements / economies?

[Martin_T]

Just even one person or consortium would be a start.....the only people that I can see that will buy Hearts are those that will find money or collateral for the club as the last resort from non-existence....people say 2005-06 proved our potential and it certainly did however the (financial) world was a very different place then and money supply and economic propects vastly different than today.....anybody who thinks differently is wishful thinking.

 

It depends on what Romanov chooses to do with the remaining debt owed to UBIG/ Ukio Bankas. Iainmac and Dougie Masterton have both hinted on this forum that there has been serious interest in buying the club from Romanov in the recent past. If Vlad is willing to take a haircut on some of the debt owed to him, even in the tougher financial climate that exists today, I'm sure he would still be able to find a buyer.

 

Whether that buyer would represent an improvement is an entirely different story.

[Martin_T]

Has the Lithuanian government offered to pump money into their banking system in line with other EU Governements / economies?

 

Yes, but they are satisfied with the stability of their banks at the current time and so do not see a need to do so. I think there are only two (Ukio being one) of Lithuania's banks that are domestically owned in any event, with the rest being subsiduaries of Scandanavian banks.

[Charlie-Brown]

It depends on what Romanov chooses to do with the remaining debt owed to UBIG/ Ukio Bankas. Iainmac and Dougie Masterton have both hinted on this forum that there has been serious interest in buying the club from Romanov in the recent past. If Vlad is willing to take a haircut on some of the debt owed to him, even in the tougher financial climate that exists today, I'm sure he would still be able to find a buyer.

 

Whether that buyer would represent an improvement is an entirely different story.

 

Any rumours of a buy-out would surely be being talked up if genuine interest was there Martin - before Romanov arrived at least Deans & McGrail showed some interest and tried to float ideas of how to attempt to deal with Hearts financial problems as they were then, whether they could ever have actually realised the amount of money or credit they needed is another thing but that would have been much easier in 2004 than it is now in 2008 or even 3-6 months ago. I don't believe there is a buy-out bid with serious interest of taking things forward except as a matter of last resort ie saving Hearts from the ashes. Mackay, Foulkes etc aren't talking up any potential buyers because they are very thin on the ground if they even exist at all.

 

UKIO Bankas aren't going to write off the debts they are owed - it is too big a sum and it would benefit them in no way to do so - HBOS wouldn't do such a thing and neither will they in my opinion. What might be feasible is taking ownership of Tynecastle and the land surrounding tynecastle in exchange for debts and let Hearts become tenants at Tynecastle - it might be possible to sell a viable football club if a big portion of the debt was removed but it would require separation of ownership of the football operation from the stadium to achieve this.

 

I'm not saying any of this is being planned or discussed by anyone it is just my thoughts on how the situation might be resolved.

[TNCASTLE]

Good logic, I posted some time ago the debt for equity deal was good. If Vlad goes tits up and there is no money, people will just accept the residual and the Club is broke BUT debt free! That big fat Newcastle bloke might be looking for a club?!

[Martin_T]

Any rumours of a buy-out would surely be being talked up if genuine interest was there Martin - before Romanov arrived at least Deans & McGrail showed some interest and tried to float ideas of how to attempt to deal with Hearts financial problems as they were then, whether they could ever have actually realised the amount of money or credit they needed is another thing but that would have been much easier in 2004 than it is now in 2008 or even 3-6 months ago. I don't believe there is a buy-out bid with serious interest of taking things forward except as a matter of last resort ie saving Hearts from the ashes. Mackay, Foulkes etc aren't talking up any potential buyers because they are very thin on the ground if they even exist at all.

 

UKIO Bankas aren't going to write off the debts they are owed - it is too big a sum and it would benefit them in no way to do so - HBOS wouldn't do such a thing and neither will they in my opinion. What might be feasible is taking ownership of Tynecastle and the land surrounding tynecastle in exchange for debts and let Hearts become tenants at Tynecastle - it might be possible to sell a viable football club if a big portion of the debt was removed but it would require separation of ownership of the football operation from the stadium to achieve this.

 

I'm not saying any of this is being planned or discussed by anyone it is just my thoughts on how the situation might be resolved.

 

Serious interest is rarely trumpeted prior to arriving Charlie. There have been at least 2 real enquiries about buying Hearts in the past year, both of which were rebuffed by Romanov. I don't know the details of these, but Iain and Dougie both have good contacts in this regard and have hinted as such on the private members board. I'm not suggesting Romanov should 'write off' Hearts debt, however he will probably have to write it down somewhat if he wants to dispose of the club. Coco has suggested on here in the past that Hearts debt was probably acquired from HBOS for a knock down sum, ie the debt of circa ?20 million was acquired for less than that full value.

 

Personally I would have no problem with a sell and lease back of Tynecastle. I still think we would be able to realise a profit of at least ?12 million on such a deal, which would put the club back in a relatively stable financial position and limit our ability for collaterised borrowing which has allowed us to get into this mess in the first place.

 

What I think we all agree on though, even you, is that if there is a viable alternative out there, we'd all like to see the end of the Romanov regime.

[Charlie-Brown]

Good logic, I posted some time ago the debt for equity deal was good. If Vlad goes tits up and there is no money, people will just accept the residual and the Club is broke BUT debt free! That big fat Newcastle bloke might be looking for a club?!

 

Mike Ashley's wealth at least on paper has taken a tonking in recent weeks as have most of the super-rich, more pertinently is there doesn't appear to be any great rush of buyers for his existing football club, even though they play in the Premiership with ?30M TV Money and 50K crowds at home games - money is tight everywhere just now.

[Charlie-Brown]

Serious interest is rarely trumpeted prior to arriving Charlie. There have been at least 2 real enquiries about buying Hearts in the past year, both of which were rebuffed by Romanov. I don't know the details of these, but Iain and Dougie both have good contacts in this regard and have hinted as such on the private members board. I'm not suggesting Romanov should 'write off' Hearts debt, however he will probably have to write it down somewhat if he wants to dispose of the club. Coco has suggested on here in the past that Hearts debt was probably acquired from HBOS for a knock down sum, ie the debt of circa ?20 million was acquired for less than that full value.

 

Personally I would have no problem with a sell and lease back of Tynecastle. I still think we would be able to realise a profit of at least ?12 million on such a deal, which would put the club back in a relatively stable financial position and limit our ability for collaterised borrowing which has allowed us to get into this mess in the first place.

 

What I think we all agree on though, even you, is that if there is a viable alternative out there, we'd all like to see the end of the Romanov regime.

 

The economic situation both for sellers & buyers is much worse now than it was even 3, 6 or 12 months ago....money that might have been possible to raise before is so much harder to raise now as you are well aware.....who is cash rich to buy Hearts apart from Warren Buffet?

[Martin_T]

Mike Ashley's wealth at least on paper has taken a tonking in recent weeks as have most of the super-rich, more pertinently is there doesn't appear to be any great rush of buyers for his existing football club, even though they play in the Premiership with ?30M TV Money and 50K crowds at home games - money is tight everywhere just now.

 

It's economies of scale though Charlie. Ashley is looking for ?350 million for Newcastle and the club has debts in excess of ?100 million and huge annual costs in terms of salaries etc. Quite frankly these days you need to be a billionaire to buy an EPL club.

 

Hearts relatively speaking have a modest debt of ?20 million, far smaller costs and a valuable land asset. It would cost much, much less to acquire the club. Yes the income is much lower, but I think the majority of the foreign owners who have come into the British game are here for reasons of ego, not reasons of profit.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Mike Ashley's wealth at least on paper has taken a tonking in recent weeks as have most of the super-rich, more pertinently is there doesn't appear to be any great rush of buyers for his existing football club, even though they play in the Premiership with ?30M TV Money and 50K crowds at home games - money is tight everywhere just now.

 

There are 7 potential buyers looking at Newcastle.

 

Source? Joe Kinnaer.

[Martin_T]

The economic situation both for sellers & buyers is much worse now than it was even 3, 6 or 12 months ago....money that might have been possible to raise before is so much harder to raise now as you are well aware.....who is cash rich to buy Hearts apart from Warren Buffet?

 

The potential buyer of Hearts needn't necessarily be super cash rich. If they can come up with a business model that sees the club able to service it's existing debts and obligations efficiently, then the actual cost of acquiring the shares is minimal. Although it really all depends on what Romanov/ UBIG wants for his/their shareholding.

 

Do you agree though, that if a viable alternative can be found (hypothetically), you'd like to see the end of the Romanov regime?

[Charlie-Brown]

There are 7 potential buyers looking at Newcastle.

 

Source? Joe Kinnaer.

 

Looking aint the same as buying though AP and unless I'm missing something it doesn't appear there are any deals imminent? Maybe Toon fans have more info though?

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Looking aint the same as buying though AP and unless I'm missing something it doesn't appear there are any deals imminent? Maybe Toon fans have more info though?

 

These things probably take a while to sort out though NMH. From what I have read, it looks like they are a certainty to be taken over and Keegan to be reinstated.

 

What have you seen that suggest otherwise?

 

Can I just ask you something?

 

Just a straight yes or no. Do you want Romanov out?

 

Nothing to do with this but I was going to ask you in another thread anyway.

 

Just please answer yes or no.

[Charlie-Brown]

The potential buyer of Hearts needn't necessarily be super cash rich. If they can come up with a business model that sees the club able to service it's existing debts and obligations efficiently, then the actual cost of acquiring the shares is minimal. Although it really all depends on what Romanov/ UBIG wants for his/their shareholding.

 

Do you agree though, that if a viable alternative can be found (hypothetically), you'd like to see the end of the Romanov regime?

 

I would like to see what our choices were ie who / how much / plans etc. and can they deliver .... Deans & McGrail had what sounded like good plans but couldn't come up with anything definite when it came to putting money on the table....only Mercer, Robinson & Deans then Romanov have done that at Hearts in the last 30 years, only Waugh, Duff & Gray then Farmer have done it at Hibs in the same time-scale.....there has never been a huge amount of people out-there with the will & money to own the Capital clubs.....and in the current economic scenario I think our choices are even more limited than they were before.

[Charlie-Brown]

These things probably take a while to sort out though NMH. From what I have read, it looks like they are a certainty to be taken over and Keegan to be reinstated.

 

What have you seen that suggest otherwise?

 

Can I just ask you something?

 

Just a straight yes or no. Do you want Romanov out?

 

Nothing to do with this but I was going to ask you in another thread anyway.

 

Just please answer yes or no.

 

I only want Romanov out IF there is someone with the money and ability to take us forward and/or deal with the clubs problems.....just now it's Romanov or no-one as far as I can see but if there was someone better then who owns Hearts isn't important - I want what's best for Hearts.

 

Until we have other credible offers on the table and we can judge their merits for ourselves rather than relying on rumours and whispers I'd have to say No I don't want Romanov out just now as he is currently our only option.

[Jammy T]

The potential buyer of Hearts needn't necessarily be super cash rich. If they can come up with a business model that sees the club able to service it's existing debts and obligations efficiently, then the actual cost of acquiring the shares is minimal. Although it really all depends on what Romanov/ UBIG wants for his/their shareholding.

 

Do you agree though, that if a viable alternative can be found (hypothetically), you'd like to see the end of the Romanov regime?

 

NMH will never answer that.

 

He doesnt deal with hypothesis or a potential scenario unless it benefits his own agenda.

 

However, he's becoming even more isolated these days, so I wouldnt worry about his avoidance of straightforward questions too much.

 

I think it might take administration for previously or continuing interested parties to come back, if we had somebody that had a genuine plan with substance with the focus of taking Hearts forward I would take administration to get rid of the guy that is killing our club every day

[PTBCAL]

These things probably take a while to sort out though NMH. From what I have read, it looks like they are a certainty to be taken over and Keegan to be reinstated.

 

What have you seen that suggest otherwise?

 

Can I just ask you something?

 

Just a straight yes or no. Do you want Romanov out?

 

Nothing to do with this but I was going to ask you in another thread anyway.

 

Just please answer yes or no.

 

AP

 

TBF I would not want VR out if it meant selling Tynecastle.

 

However if someone could buy him out and keep us at Tynecastle - then YES. I know to some Tynecastle is not everything but it is to me when the alternative is Murrayfield with 60,000 empty seats.

[macbeth]

It's economies of scale though Charlie. Ashley is looking for ?350 million for Newcastle and the club has debts in excess of ?100 million and huge annual costs in terms of salaries etc. Quite frankly these days you need to be a billionaire to buy an EPL club.

 

Newcastle United has no debt any more as Ashley paid it off. He didn't lend the club money to pay it off, the way Roman has done at Chelsea, he just used his cash to give the club no debt.

 

He piad ~?130-140m to buy out Hall and Shepherd, and then put in ?110m to clear the debt. He therefore paid roughly ?250m for his investment. He is now trying to sell a debt free club.

 

The wages are far too high. a legacy of Shepherd's get-poor-quickly style of management. The club has income of over ?80m for the last 5 years.

 

The club looks a good buy, Ashley just wants too much.

 

Hearts have had a total income of under ?56m for the last 7 years put together. The club have debts of over ?12m, and annual losses that toal ?32m for the last 7 years.

 

Hearts and Newcastle may look similar, and the costs to buy look very different but as a going concern there is a huge difference. In the long run somebody could get there money back on buying Newcastle, it looks very difficult to get any money back from owning Hearts.

[Charlie-Brown]

NMH will never answer that.

 

He doesnt deal with hypothesis or a potential scenario unless it benefits his own agenda.

 

However, he's becoming even more isolated these days, so I wouldnt worry about his avoidance of straightforward questions too much.

 

I think it might take administration for previously or continuing interested parties to come back, if we had somebody that had a genuine plan with substance with the focus of taking Hearts forward I would take administration to get rid of the guy that is killing our club every day

 

Both Motherwell & Dundee emerged from adminstration with the same people controlling the club as before.

[JamboGuy]

I wonder what odds the bookies would give on him not being around this time next year.

 

I don't know the odds.

 

But I do know that things have to change!

 

If he went tomorrow, it would be a day longer than I would want him around.

[Canadianjambo]

Why do people on this forum spend so much time writing/speculating over what to do if/when Vlad wants out/goes bankrupt etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

 

There is absolutely nothing anyone can do about this situation! It's like those that used to sit and worry constantly about nuclear war.....the weapons are still here and there's nothing we can do about it - its the same with Hearts - in one way, shape or form the debt will always be here, someone will own the team and there will be uncertainty about the future!

 

Why don't we all just stop all of this, get behind the team and cheer them on and enjoy watching Hearts win (hopefully)!! We will enjoy our football much more this way! Leave the worrying and speculation to hibs.net and lets enjoy our team, safe in the knowledge that they will never truely be happy with theirs!!

[Canadianjambo]

By the way....my 100th post - hope you enjoyed!!