deesidejambo Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Burley was lucky with us,he is clearly out of his depth and needs replacing ASAP,we were going to struggle to qualify and now its never gonna happen.Time for a new man to take over. 1 up front at home is unforgiveable,I hate to see it at hearts and I hate to see it in the national team too. What he said. One up front at home is unforgiveable. Walter Smith will be proud of him though. He should have taken off Fletcher for iwulomo instead of Mcfadden. Macfadden wouldn't have missed that cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Burley was lucky with us,he is clearly out of his depth and needs replacing ASAP,we were going to struggle to qualify and now its never gonna happen.Time for a new man to take over. 1 up front at home is unforgiveable,I hate to see it at hearts and I hate to see it in the national team too. out his depth? He's been manager of us, has managed in the premiership and at Southampton who aren't a small club either. I don't like the 4-5-1 either but that was what we had to play as they are a strong team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 out his depth? He's been manager of us, has managed in the premiership and at Southampton who aren't a small club either. I don't like the 4-5-1 either but that was what we had to play as they are a strong team Any manager would know to leave Mcfadden on as he is always a danger. we needed a goal, not midfield "control". He should have sacrificed one of the midfield for Iwolomu as the midfield was defo overcrowded which is why you never saw much of Fletcher. How many times did you see 2 or 3 Scottish midfield players in each others way - lots. Burley is a donkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 out his depth? He's been manager of us, has managed in the premiership and at Southampton who aren't a small club either. I don't like the 4-5-1 either but that was what we had to play as they are a strong team Disagree strongly. We dominated the game when we went 4-4-2 and looked dangerous. Apart from anything else, this was a 'must WIN' game - not a 'keep a clean sheet' game. The very idea of one up front against those monsters is straight from the lunatic asylum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dode41 Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 we looked far more lively when they came on imo. Iwelumo may have missed that chance but he did more than McFadden did think we looked more lively because we went 4-4-2,would have been better to leave mcfadden on,see how it went then maybe brought on another forward if we were still chasing the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haganajambo Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Feel brutal for Iwelumo, he looked promising... but then the miss. How on earth Burley could think of taking off McFadden instead of Maloney is beyond me. Maloney was absolutely woeful. We played a must win game today with not one out and out striker from the start. It was like 3 wingers up front. Embarrassing as per. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Shocking miss by Iwelumo but Burley cost us that match with his incredibly negative tactics. Even when he made the changes, McFadden had to stay on and to not even give Boyd a late run out was ridiculous. I said it at half time but the comparisons between Scotland and Hearts were frightening. Play a guy upfront on his own who clearly can't play that role, attempt to have runners from a lightweight midfield but none of them can do it and in defence, we always looked likely to concede. The problem today with managers is that they try and be too fancy with formations. What ends up happening is teams don't play their best eleven players and also the players don't know where they are playing. Stick to basics, stick to 4-4-2 and we almost managed to sneak a result when we did. Burley goes on about playing good football, well I've not seen it once since he's been in charge. Not only that, it's doesn't even look like producing winning football. He got the job based on what he did with us, but the difference there was that he had some fantastic players. Even Rix and Valdas did not too badly with the same group which tells you all you need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 out his depth? He's been manager of us, has managed in the premiership and at Southampton who aren't a small club either. I don't like the 4-5-1 either but that was what we had to play as they are a strong team Who has he done well at though?? Us apart and we didnt have much competition at the time. Norway are not the team they once were,Carew was hopeless in the 2nd half and that was with old man Weir holding him off with his zimmer frame in one hand!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Feel brutal for Iwelumo, he looked promising... but then the miss. How on earth Burley could think of taking off McFadden instead of Maloney is beyond me. Maloney was absolutely woeful. We played a must win game today with not one out and out striker from the start. It was like 3 wingers up front. Embarrassing as per. Have to be honest and say I didn't think there was an awful lot between them, i thought McFadden was non existent as well, and it was after his removal we started threatening their penalty box. To me McFadden is what I would class as a luxury player, and luxury players can tend to become a bit of a noose around your neck when the going gets tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I think Georgie boy thinks he's tactically more clever than he really is Why play Maloney, Robson and Morrison from the start, then to compound it he plays them on the wrong wing, it works from Strap-on at Cellic but thats because he has had striker like Hartson, Hesselink, Samamras and MacDonald to aim for not McFadden. In the first half Morrison and Maloney kept on getting in each others way, and Shaun after the 14th time you cut onto your right foot I think the defence twigged onto you! I agreed with Iwelumo coming on but Boyd should have been the natural choice to partner him with Maloney and Morrison going off and McFadden to the left wing, not 2 minutes before he went off he'd torn the right back for @rse paper I actually felt sorry for Caldwell as he got caught out a few times due to the fact he was continually aware that he was covering for Weir every time Carew got the ball The 5 across the middle didn't help Fletcher or Brown as someone mentioned earlier it was too crowded, the difference was obvious after the change, Brown in particular really came onto a game. All in I'd give George a 3/4 out of 10 for today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badly drawn boy Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Spoke to Csaba after the game , he thought and i agree Scotland were pish Remove post re Brewster in toilets Tam cowans bird/wife great from behind a lampost, legs holy sheet -see the fizzog when removest the lampost , looks like a Mwell centre half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broxburn Jambo Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 We had central defenders that lacked the one thing that is needed ''PACE'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Who has he done well at though?? Us apart and we didnt have much competition at the time. Norway are not the team they once were,Carew was hopeless in the 2nd half and that was with old man Weir holding him off with his zimmer frame in one hand!!! he got ipswich into europe which is a decent achievement, he did alright at Southampton as well with their financial troubles. I don't think Carew was hopeless at all, he beat Weir a few times and had a great chance to win it at the end, as for their team they aren't great but they are strong which means they aren't easy to play against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 We would be as well resigning ourselves to it now, it is barely possible to qualify for the main tournament. We would need to beat Netherlands (post was edited to please someone that hates the term "Holland" ) home and away, which will not happen. My personal opinion is that the team selected was not too bad, but IMO Maloney is not as good as some would have you believe. Also, I always have the feeling that McFadden could create something out of nothing. He may not be as good as some think he is, but even when off form, I feel he can conjure up THAT chance, therefore, I would not have taken him off. As for Iwelumo, how he has earned his place ahead of Boyd is beyond me. Boyd, decent goalscoring start to the season and has proven himself as a scorer at International level, yet the untried pair get an appearance before him? Poor judgement from Burley, and I feel we may be looking for an International manager sooner than anticipated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 We would be as well resigning ourselves to it now, it is barely possible to qualify for the main tournament. We would need to beat Netherlands (post was edited to please someone that hates the term "Holland" ) home and away, which will not happen. My personal opinion is that the team selected was not too bad, but IMO Maloney is not as good as some would have you believe. Also, I always have the feeling that McFadden could create something out of nothing. He may not be as good as some think he is, but even when off form, I feel he can conjure up THAT chance, therefore, I would not have taken him off. As for Iwelumo, how he has earned his place ahead of Boyd is beyond me. Boyd, decent goalscoring start to the season and has proven himself as a scorer at International level, yet the untried pair get an appearance before him? Poor judgement from Burley, and I feel we may be looking for an International manager sooner than anticipated. I'm a bit baffled by this analysis, BH. Scotland were never going to win a group featuring the Dutch - yet you still have a good chance of finishing 2nd. And assuming you are one of the 8 best runners-up from the nine groups, you'd then head into a play-off, which is pot luck. Certainly, Scotland aren't playing well at the moment, and need to improve significantly. But the key in my view will be avoiding defeat in Norway. Their awful home draw with Iceland means they're playing catch-up - and the Scots will be on for 2nd unless Norway beat you in Oslo. Remember too that the SFA made a point of getting the home game with Holland last - when they'll probably already have qualified, so will more than likely rest players. Think Kilmarnock v Celtic on the final day of 2000/1 (), with Scotland in the Killie role... Before the campaign began, I had a bet with a well-known contributor to this forum that you'd qualify; and in spite of your current struggles, I still think you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I'm a bit baffled by this analysis, BH. Scotland were never going to win a group featuring the Dutch - yet you still have a good chance of finishing 2nd. And assuming you are one of the 8 best runners-up from the nine groups, you'd then head into a play-off, which is pot luck. Certainly, Scotland aren't playing well at the moment, and need to improve significantly. But the key in my view will be avoiding defeat in Norway. Their awful home draw with Iceland means they're playing catch-up - and the Scots will be on for 2nd unless Norway beat you in Oslo. Remember too that the SFA made a point of getting the home game with Holland last - when they'll probably already have qualified, so will more than likely rest players. Think Kilmarnock v Celtic on the final day of 2000/1 (), with Scotland in the Killie role... Before the campaign began, I had a bet with a well-known contributor to this forum that you'd qualify; and in spite of your current struggles, I still think you will. That is the assumption that is the concern. If we are in a group where many teams are gonna take points off each other, I would suggest that there will not be a lot between two or three sides below the Netherlands and we will lose out on the play off place. Be honest, nine groups, eight play off places, that ninth group has a certain Scottish ring to it doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 That is the assumption that is the concern. If we are in a group where many teams are gonna take points off each other, I would suggest that there will not be a lot between two or three sides below the Netherlands and we will lose out on the play off place. Be honest, nine groups, eight play off places, that ninth group has a certain Scottish ring to it doesn't it? Sure does! But with eight from nine making it, it's still very much odds against the runners-up in your group being the fall guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Sure does! But with eight from nine making it, it's still very much odds against the runners-up in your group being the fall guys. If there is a way, Scotland will find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 If there is a way, Scotland will find it. To be fair, you were the best runners-up for the '98 WC, so qualifying automatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 With only 4 points taken from 9 it is difficult to see how Scotland can get another 13 points from 15 left available to achieve the 17 points total that G.Burley said before the group begain we'd need to ensure we were in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 With only 4 points taken from 9 it is difficult to see how Scotland can get another 13 points from 15 left available to achieve the 17 points total that G.Burley said before the group begain we'd need to ensure we were in the mix. You won't need 17 points to finish 2nd, though. I think 14 will do it, and it could even be fewer. Home wins v Iceland and Macedonia take you up to 10; a draw in Norway makes 11. And then you take advantage of an already-qualified Holland in the last match to get up to 14, which I'm sure would be enough for one of the eight best runners-up berths. There's no need to panic just yet, folks - but are the SFA listening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 You won't need 17 points to finish 2nd, though. I think 14 will do it, and it could even be fewer. Home wins v Iceland and Macedonia take you up to 10; a draw in Norway makes 11. And then you take advantage of an already-qualified Holland in the last match to get up to 14, which I'm sure would be enough for one of the eight best runners-up berths. There's no need to panic just yet, folks - but are the SFA listening? 14 points isn't even 60% points haul - even allowing for adjustment of results in the other groups with 6 teams - that still seems a dangerously low points achievement to scrape a play-off place by which time the co-efficient will have reduced a bit meaning we might not be seeded in any play-off draw and could face a right tough game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 14 points isn't even 60% points haul - even allowing for adjustment of results in the other groups with 6 teams - that still seems a dangerously low points achievement to scrape a play-off place by which time the co-efficient will have reduced a bit meaning we might not be seeded in any play-off draw and could face a right tough game. FIFA don't use coefficients though: they use the world rankings. A big reason why I bet on Scotland to qualify is I thought, with your excellent ranking until recent weeks, you probably would be seeded - I'm not so confident now though. And yes, 60% would be dangerous, but there's always a couple of other groups that go bonkers too. So I'd say 14 will do it; but 12 won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gershwin Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I think we need to win every game outside the Holland fixtures to qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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