shaun.lawson Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 If you have any facts spit them out. If not go back to your love in with the hobos. I stated the stories were utterly unsubstantiated. Indeed, I've reiterated over and over again that administration makes zero sense in our case anyway. If UBIG came under intolerable pressure, Romanov would just dispose of us (meaning sell us) as a vanity project it seems to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Why would anyone be owed money by HMFC over 90 days? Because that's the only way a creditor could do something about it. Conversely, in HBOS' case, it was utterly powerless against a concerted run on the markets. I don't think the two are comparable at all, to be honest. Malicious rumours were circulated about HBOS and this caused panic amongst investors, next thing you know, 40% wiped of it's share price in an hour. Lots of people are owed money by businesses over 90 days - not normally a cause for alarm if the payment history is good and they are not judged to be bad debtors. This thread should die a natural death...or at least be moved to The Gullit Lounge until someone comes up with tangible evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I stated the stories were utterly unsubstantiated. Indeed, I've reiterated over and over again that administration makes zero sense in our case anyway. If UBIG came under intolerable pressure, Romanov would just dispose of us (meaning sell us) as a vanity project it seems to me. FFS Seven pages for an utterly unsubstantiated rumour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 FFS Seven pages for an utterly unsubstantiated rumour. Quite. And h**s fans should be careful what they wish for. Losing two home gates a season from us at a time when disposable income is about to fall significantly in Edinburgh and therefore, their crowds, could leave them in a similar predicament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray- Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 But that was a run on a bank, in common with many others. As long as we're paying people on time (and there's no reason to assume we're not), there's nothing any creditor can do. Shaun, I think banks can call in debts at any time, I heard of a number of business that gone broke because they have done exactly that. Not that I'm suggesting this is what will happen in Hearts case, just commenting on Shaun's view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Malicious rumours were circulated about HBOS and this caused panic amongst investors, next thing you know, 40% wiped of it's share price in an hour. Lots of people are owed money by businesses over 90 days - not normally a cause for alarm if the payment history is good and they are not judged to be bad debtors. This thread should die a natural death...or at least be moved to The Gullit Lounge until someone comes up with tangible evidence. I take it you would gladly run a small company and let companys pay you when they feel like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Shaun, I think banks can call in debts at any time, I heard of a number of business that gone broke because they have done exactly that. Not that I'm suggesting this is what will happen in Hearts case, just commenting on Shaun's view. If it is a fixed term loan, no they can't. What they will do is review the loan if and when it needs to be refinanced and either offer similar terms, offer higher terms or refuse the offer of new credit. Overdrafts, on the other hand, can be called in at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Kurtz Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 If it is a fixed term loan, no they can't. What they will do is review the loan if and when it needs to be refinanced and either offer similar terms, offer higher terms or refuse the offer of new credit. Overdrafts, on the other hand, can be called in at any time. The problem is one of confidence. The people who are telling us everything is ok,have told us this before and there is a lack of confidence in their asurances. Due to Hearts strict ,centrally controled finances there will be small creditors waiting for money ,and taking action to retrieve the debts. If such a fiscal policy is acceptable for Hearts is open to debate ,but we are where we are..,and adverse rumours do cause creditors to get twitchy when in the past they would have waited for their money. I have laughed of rumours from Hobos all weekend,however Hearts have not helped themselves in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Lots of people are owed money by businesses over 90 days - not normally a cause for alarm if the payment history is good and they are not judged to be bad debtors. . There remains a distinct difference between not paying your invoice within the time, and ignoring a court decree I've yet to hear precisely what we arent paying (invoices or decrees), but IF there has been a genuine threat to our solvency, stopped only by payment of court decrees than that is playing the "sharp business practice" card completely the wrong way - that is cashflow, because if you dont pay a court decree you are jeopordising the status of the company Basically if you dont pay your invoices on time you're a chancer, if you dont pay court decrees on time you're in trouble... ...and if the business community trading with you knows that you are not complying with credit terms to the extent that you dont pay court decrees THAT is what makes creditors twitchy, not chat on an internet forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 All is well. The Ukio Bankas share price had fallen so far that it almost had to be quoted in milli-Litas but is up by 15% this morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 The problem is one of confidence.The people who are telling us everything is ok,have told us this before and there is a lack of confidence in their asurances. Due to Hearts strict ,centrally controled finances there will be small creditors waiting for money ,and taking action to retrieve the debts. If such a fiscal policy is acceptable for Hearts is open to debate ,but we are where we are..,and adverse rumours do cause creditors to get twitchy when in the past they would have waited for their money. I have laughed of rumours from Hobos all weekend,however Hearts have not helped themselves in the past. Indeed, another flawed idea from Vlad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 The problem is one of confidence.The people who are telling us everything is ok,have told us this before and there is a lack of confidence in their asurances. Due to Hearts strict ,centrally controled finances there will be small creditors waiting for money ,and taking action to retrieve the debts. If such a fiscal policy is acceptable for Hearts is open to debate ,but we are where we are..,and adverse rumours do cause creditors to get twitchy when in the past they would have waited for their money. I have laughed of rumours from Hobos all weekend,however Hearts have not helped themselves in the past. Hearts business practices are causing this. Fair enough pay at the last possible date (I always do) but do not leave it until the Courts/Legal system become invovled. However I believe debts are currently being repaid so maybe the ones waiting the longest will finally be settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I reckon Thursday is the day this week the Hobos will be saying we are going into administration. :107years: That's why we have to win this Sunday. Shut these tramps up good and proper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 All is well. The Ukio Bankas share price had fallen so far that it almost had to be quoted in milli-Litas but is up by 15% this morning! Cracking pun! Bravo! The fact that there was an election in Lithuania over the weekend has probably had more to do with markets rallying than anything specific to Ukio Bankas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Cracking pun! Bravo! The fact that there was an election in Lithuania over the weekend has probably had more to do with markets rallying than anything specific to Ukio Bankas. I think that the various European bank bailouts are an even bigger factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Tarts 1874 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 All is well. The Ukio Bankas share price had fallen so far that it almost had to be quoted in milli-Litas but is up by 15% this morning! And that is important to Hearts because................................? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 But that was a run on a bank, in common with many others. As long as we're paying people on time (and there's no reason to assume we're not), there's nothing any creditor can do. Really? After reading this drivel, especially if it's printed in the tabloids, anyone owed money by HMFC might just be thinking about taking legal action to recover it. Maybe last week they weren't really worried as we've always paid up in the past? Some people seem to be revelling in these rumours. When it comes to receiving money owed it is indeed a case of better late than never. People don't like getting paid late but it's a fact of life and they deal with it. What people really worry about is not getting paid in full, or at all and that's what you would risk if you were to do business with a company that was teetering on the edge of administration as the rumours maintained. The real economic damage from having mud thrown at Hearts' financial reputation isn't what current creditors might do about money currently owed but whether they'd continue to run the risk of doing business with Hearts in the future. Anecdotaly I have heard of small suppliers to Hearts who since the wages glitch/error/crisis (delete according to prejudice) have suddenly been paid far earlier than they expected which suggests that Hearts are taking steps to calm any fears and get rid of as much stuck mud as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 And that is important to Hearts because................................? Because the better Romanov's other companies perform, the less chance he has to sell assets in a fire sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 When it comes to receiving money owed it is indeed a case of better late than never. People don't like getting paid late but it's a fact of life and they deal with it. What people really worry about is not getting paid in full, or at all and that's what you would risk if you were to do business with a company that was teetering on the edge of administration as the rumours maintained. The real economic damage from having mud thrown at Hearts' financial reputation isn't what current creditors might do about money currently owed but whether they'd continue to run the risk of doing business with Hearts in the future. Anecdotaly I have heard of small suppliers to Hearts who since the wages glitch/error/crisis (delete according to prejudice) have suddenly been paid far earlier than they expected which suggests that Hearts are taking steps to calm any fears and get rid of as much stuck mud as possible. If the content of your last paragraph is maintained and is widespread this is good news. As it should be, but good news none the less What I would say is that there is a bit of a chicken and egg scenario being played out here. Those saying the rumours - the mud throwing - is the key distablising element, or those saying the actions of the club from a financial perspective are the key element. I still maintain that if Hearts stopped acting like a club that were in financial bother (if indeed we are not) by ensuring the cashflow from Lithuania is prompt and consistent, and primarily by making sure we dont get decrees taken out against us and not paid, then most of this would go away. The main reasons we have "run" with the administration rumours as much this time is threefold 1. the late wages 2. what appears to be creditors going quite far down the line for payment before being paid 3. the general financial climate If Hearts cut the first 2 out - and from what you've heard that appears possible - then we will soon be able to shrug off such stories more easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Because the better Romanov's other companies perform, the less chance he has to sell assets in a fire sale. ...and I personally think that if he rides out the next 3 months things are starting to look better for him / us. Not because I think the worse will be over in the general economy, but I think the worse will be over for the majority of his business If UKIO survives the next 2 or 3 months (and there is genuinely nothing around or obvious to suggest it wont), I think we'll have seen the bottom of the Banking market and it should survive beyond (how strong is debatable, but survival would be a good and sound base to rebuild from) I think the industrial metals side of things is about to bottom out also - so again, if the Aluminium plant surivives until the turn of the year, it should start to bounce of the floor a little My main concern is actually our mummy and daddy - UBIG. If they are principally commercial property developers and owners, I dont see a bottom of that market for over a year. And if calls are placed on UBIG to find finances to maintain equity ratios in any com prop it owns, then it may very well struggle But anyway, lets deal with one collapsing market at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Kurtz Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 If the content of your last paragraph is maintained and is widespread this is good news. As it should be, but good news none the less What I would say is that there is a bit of a chicken and egg scenario being played out here. Those saying the rumours - the mud throwing - is the key distablising element, or those saying the actions of the club from a financial perspective are the key element. I still maintain that if Hearts stopped acting like a club that were in financial bother (if indeed we are not) by ensuring the cashflow from Lithuania is prompt and consistent, and primarily by making sure we dont get decrees taken out against us and not paid, then most of this would go away. The main reasons we have "run" with the administration rumours as much this time is threefold 1. the late wages 2. what appears to be creditors going quite far down the line for payment before being paid 3. the general financial climate If Hearts cut the first 2 out - and from what you've heard that appears possible - then we will soon be able to shrug off such stories more easily Although there werer a few creditors,the aggregate amount being pursued was not substantial,circa?6k in total. If PBTCAL comments are correct about a new attitude to paying bills then I applaud the initiative,however some can recall flying BA early in the expenses quarter and conference calls at the end of the quarter. We have all been smiling through gritted teeth recently at the jibes about us being skint,I personally dont believe there is any substance to the rumours ,but Hearts need to stop being such an easy target. Celtic were 15 minutes away from going bust,but I dont think they got so much publicity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Celtic were 15 minutes away from going bust,but I dont think they got so much publicity Although, ironically, that was just about the best thing that could have happened to them! I totally agree re the "easy target" point. And I think all Hearts fans would agree with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Kurtz Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Although, ironically, that was just about the best thing that could have happened to them! I totally agree re the "easy target" point. And I think all Hearts fans would agree with that Ah.you took my point,it might be the brink we have to go to before any alternative will take action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 So we stop talking about it. Meanwhile, Hibs fans carry on, and Cameron and his ilk run with it. What's the difference? Not at all. I think any facts taht emerge (like the court orders story) are fair game for a discussion This thread was started by a Hearts fan though - if there is news then obviously people will respond to it on here. If we are starting the news by threads titled 'Administration' like this one we are just providing smoke for the journos and hibees to make a fire out of. And with business failure rumours, the smoke can create the fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckystrike Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Malicious rumours were circulated about HBOS and this caused panic amongst investors, next thing you know, 40% wiped of it's share price in an hour. Lots of people are owed money by businesses over 90 days - not normally a cause for alarm if the payment history is good and they are not judged to be bad debtors. This thread should die a natural death...or at least be moved to The Gullit Lounge until someone comes up with tangible evidence. Will you be wanting to decide whether any evidence that was forthcoming is tangible enough for us to be able to discuss it. What exactly gives you the right to try and get a thread moved just because you don't like the topic being under discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mon Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 All is well. The Ukio Bankas share price had fallen so far that it almost had to be quoted in milli-Litas but is up by 15% this morning! And is now dropping again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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