Administration

[Independence]

I think his point is more what happened to the Gordon money.

 

I think the most concerning aspect is how when clubs like dunfermline chase us for ticket money collected in the UK they need to wait while Lithuania release the money

 

Whilst I have no problem with Vlad etc controlling the finances of larger items there seems to be too much centralisation with the day to day staff not having sufficient balances or cash flow at times.

 

I also think its a bit rich how Stewart Fraser gets blamed for anything at all when Its fairly obvious he can't do anything without Ubig authorisation, in fact the only reason he is around imo is to be a scapegoat

 

As I asked before, have you an update on your Chatham lies, sorry I mean story?

 

You now have a huge credibility issue and should really find something else to do!!!!

[Charlie-Brown]

Speaking of whom:

 

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:3RjXhNBan-0J:www.britishlinen.co.uk/pdf/clients/Hearts%2520Final_Offer%2520Document.pdf+UBIG+Hearts+Stewart+Fraser&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=14&gl=uk

 

"I have decided that, in time, I too will leave the Club. I have, however, in recognition of my responsibilities as the only Independent Director left, also decided that I must remain as a Director for the immediate future, not least because there should still be someone on the Board to provide you, the Hearts Shareholders, with an informed recommendation as to how you should respond to the Offer.

 

It is on this basis that I am writing to you now. I must, though, inform you that after any date upon which the Offer becomes, or is declared, unconditional as to acceptances, I intend to enter into discussions with the Board regarding my departure from Tynecastle. The object of these discussions would be to agree a managed exit by me that both ensured the smooth continuity of financial management and was consistent with my contract of employment which requires a 12 month notice period by either side as to departure."

What changed? How come he's still here?

 

He stepped down as financial director but was kept on as an employee as the club's bean-counter at tynecastle...he probably knows some dark truths about Hearts over the last decade.

[shaun.lawson]

He stepped down as financial director but was kept on as an employee as the club's bean-counter at tynecastle...he probably knows some dark truths about Hearts over the last decade.

 

Cheers NMH! Indeed: if it all goes breasts skywards, he should write a book on his experiences...

[Rawrrrrrrr]

He stepped down as financial director but was kept on as an employee as the club's bean-counter at tynecastle...he probably knows some dark truths about Hearts over the last decade.

 

 

Do you know when he stepped down?

 

Its just I can't recall ever seeing it happen, its also strange that if he was aggrieved as he sounds in the document he would stay on in a reduced role with less power and protection and less financial reward - was this covered in the press at the time

 

A sort of related question, Is RR still "interim" chief executive? and is pedro lopez on the board or just employed?

 

Who is the current board? Julia, Roman, Sergei

 

The website lists the above but it may just be out of date.

 

Also did we ever replace Ally russell?

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Cheers NMH! Indeed: if it all goes breasts skywards, he should write a book on his experiences...

 

Im surprised Charlie Mann's isnt out yet.

 

also I notice the website says Roman is the son of the majority shareholder, did vlad not sign all his over to Ubig?

[Charlie-Brown]

I think Stewart Fraser officially stepped down at the 2006 AGM after UBIG had gained majority control - maybe somebody can find some links?

[shaun.lawson]

I think Stewart Fraser officially stepped down at the 2006 AGM after UBIG had gained majority control - maybe somebody can find some links?

 

Yep, you're spot on, NMH.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/4654576.stm

 

"Hearts also confirmed that Stewart Fraser - the last Scot - has resigned from the board.

 

Lithuanian businessman Romanov had recently increased his stake in the club to just over 80% and withdrew it from the London Stock Exchange as it reverted back to a private company.

 

Fraser will continue the day-to-day financial management of Hearts.

 

But Hearts' statement stressed that he had "first intimated his decision to resign from the board in November 2005 and yesterday he confirmed that decision in agreement with the board".

 

The 56-year-old said: "I feel now is the correct time to step down as a director.

 

"I remained on the board until now in order to provide Hearts shareholders with an independent view on the recent offer by UBIG and, now that this process has been successfully completed, I feel the time is right to make this move.

 

"Financially, the club has faced difficult times in recent years, but I believe, as I said at the time of the UBIG offer, that there is every opportunity that the club is now well placed to prosper under the ownership of UBIG."

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

This would only be possible if Hearts had a positive cash-flow and/or didn't require subsidising.....until the club can get a decent injection of money for working capital (ie transfer some player(s)) to pay off what's overdue and bring costs inline with revenues (get the wage bill down to where it needs to be as highest earners are shipped out) then it will require UKIO/UBIG to keep a very tight grip on payments and send over the subsidy money periodically.

 

That is complete tripe! Hearts "costs" for the year are pretty much known in advance - in fact, the only 'variable' factor within them are the bonuses for wins etc. but you can estimate a budget for that. You can then project the revenue and see whether there is a surplus or deficit and where those surpluses and deficits arise. That's when the parent company funding comes in.

 

Instead, we have a system where in effect we have a credit card with HBoS that gets maxed out and then we have to await the next parcel of cash from Lithuania, leading to p*ssed off suppliers and all sorts of other collateral damage. It also sows the seeds of these rumours in the first place.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Im surprised Charlie Mann's isnt out yet.

 

also I notice the website says Roman is the son of the majority shareholder, did vlad not sign all his over to Ubig?

 

He did.

 

Please remember that Lawrence Broadie writes most of the content on the website. Nuff said!

[shaun.lawson]

Im surprised Charlie Mann's isnt out yet.

 

also I notice the website says Roman is the son of the majority shareholder, did vlad not sign all his over to Ubig?

 

Er... dunno, to be honest!

 

This was the position at the end of 2006:

 

http://www.eufootball.biz/Clubs/281206-Romanov-ownership-could-cost-him-millions.html

 

Might have changed since, though. By the way, I hadn't come across this page on Wikipedia before:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Romanov%27s_ownership_of_Heart_of_Midlothian_F.C.

 

Quite a handy reference source, really.

 

EDIT: Oops, sorry Geoff. Hadn't seen your post.

[Charlie-Brown]

That is complete tripe! Hearts "costs" for the year are pretty much known in advance - in fact, the only 'variable' factor within them are the bonuses for wins etc. but you can estimate a budget for that. You can then project the revenue and see whether there is a surplus or deficit and where those surpluses and deficits arise. That's when the parent company funding comes in.

 

Instead, we have a system where in effect we have a credit card with HBoS that gets maxed out and then we have to await the next parcel of cash from Lithuania, leading to p*ssed off suppliers and all sorts of other collateral damage. It also sows the seeds of these rumours in the first place.

 

I agree with what you say GK but revenue can be variable and depending on certain factors costs aren't static either so the deficit can shrink or grow each month/quarter .... also other parts of UBIG/UKIO have to earn the money to fund Hearts deficit first so if cash is tighter elsewhere in the group then the length of time at which the cash needed at tynecastle can be sent over will lengthen.

[Francis Albert]

And could someone explain what benefit there is for Hearts or their fans in this endless speculation.

 

Anyone?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I agree with what you say GK but revenue can be variable and depending on certain factors costs aren't static either so the deficit can shrink or grow each month/quarter .... also other parts of UBIG/UKIO have to earn the money to fund Hearts deficit first so if cash is tighter elsewhere in the group then the length of time at which the cash needed at tynecastle can be sent over will lengthen.

 

But surely any 'competent' business will discuss prospective business plans with their financiers for all parts of their group?

 

The point here is that UBIG etc. as we know are in industries where cash flow is haphazard. They will have employees to pay as well so facilities will be agreed using their assets as collateral to ensure a smooth cash flow. HMFC having to wait for UBIG returns doesn't wash. We are effectively part of their group and therefore should be included in any sort of UBIG business plan.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

I agree with what you GK but revenue can be variable and depending on certain factors costs aren't static either so the deficit can shrink or grow each month/quarter .... also other parts of UBIG/UKIO have to earn the money to fund Hearts deficit first so if cash is tighter elsewhere in the group then the length of time at which the cash needed at tynecastle can be sent over will lengthen.

 

 

NMH any industry has the same problems

 

My employers exaggerate the costs of every budget and underestimate costs, yes this is due to the type of company we are and it wouldnt suit everyone but hearts are an established football club

 

If we cannot adequately budget and ensure cash flow then its a real concern and just actually reinforces my opinion that the senior management of our club are incompetent

 

Whilst its fair enough having money held in lithuania and being transferred it has to be reasonable available as and when the club need it and well it doesnt appear to be.

 

I am using this as an example, but last season Dunfermline almost sued us because their share of the ticket receipts where not available, at the time the club said they where waiting for lithuania to release the money, why is it money collected and banked in the UK by hearts belonging to another club ended up anywhere other than the Hbos account ready to be paid as needed?

 

Ultimately I think a lot of our problems are caused by the management structure in that all spend over a certain amount goes through Ubig - rumoured to be 2.5k I heard.... If this is the case how are people like Fraser etc meant to manage the club properly day to day?

 

Also NMH seperately from above could you answer this question yes or no, do you believe that hearts - not ubig or ukio - have an appropiate management structure in place for day to day operations?

[Jammy T]

Anyone?

 

IMO we are dealing with more than just pesky hobo wind-up merchants. Doesnt mean anything is defo happening but gut instinct tells me at the very least there have been some legals ongoing which were pretty close to D-day

 

Much in the same way that I spent about 4 hours today reading about the credit crunch in general "in transit", I am interested in hearing what is being spoken about in the context of Hearts, and whether it means anything.

 

Taking your point to its natural conclusion- -whats the point in discussing anything on here, none of it influences anything, but so be it.

 

Whats the benefit in discussing anything on here in reality?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Anyone?

 

The only 'benefit' for some people is that they think it's a potential way of getting rid of Vlad because a yet unnamed 'white knight' will buy the company in a post-administrative environment and 10 points will be a small price to pay.

[iainmac]

Speaking of whom:

 

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:3RjXhNBan-0J:www.britishlinen.co.uk/pdf/clients/Hearts%2520Final_Offer%2520Document.pdf+UBIG+Hearts+Stewart+Fraser&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=14&gl=uk

 

"I have decided that, in time, I too will leave the Club. I have, however, in recognition of my responsibilities as the only Independent Director left, also decided that I must remain as a Director for the immediate future, not least because there should still be someone on the Board to provide you, the Hearts Shareholders, with an informed recommendation as to how you should respond to the Offer.

 

It is on this basis that I am writing to you now. I must, though, inform you that after any date upon which the Offer becomes, or is declared, unconditional as to acceptances, I intend to enter into discussions with the Board regarding my departure from Tynecastle. The object of these discussions would be to agree a managed exit by me that both ensured the smooth continuity of financial management and was consistent with my contract of employment which requires a 12 month notice period by either side as to departure."

What changed? How come he's still here?

 

Prancer has already answered that question Shaun - he's to be kept on in his official capacity as "Vladimir's Scapegoat" according to JKB's own Financial Expert.

[iainmac]

The only 'benefit' for some people is that they think it's a potential way of getting rid of Vlad because a yet unnamed 'white knight' will buy the company in a post-administrative environment and 10 points will be a small price to pay.

 

There is no White Knight - at least, not yet.

[Martin_T]

The only 'benefit' for some people is that they think it's a potential way of getting rid of Vlad because a yet unnamed 'white knight' will buy the company in a post-administrative environment and 10 points will be a small price to pay.

 

You have to laugh at the Google adds at the top of this thread:

 

'Company Liquidation' and 'Considering Bankruptcy'

[Examiner]

Anyone?

 

I'd like an answer to that too

[shaun.lawson]

I'd like an answer to that too

 

Forewarned is forearmed?

[Rawrrrrrrr]

www.liquidatemycompanytoday.com

 

Could the mods confirm if anyone has made them a few pence and clicked on the link

[CJGJ]

That's what's lacking at the moment -- and that is the danger with threads like this -- no proof presented yet posters claim to know this and that yet funnily enough won't post any facts or sources.

 

The danger for us is the same that faced our banks -- a lack of confidence meaning a lack of lending causing the flow of funds to dry up.

 

I am sure there are a number of our hobo friends who have a quiet chuckle when the see what can be acheived if you just shout something long enough and loud enough -- and of course thare are plenty on here gullible enough to feed the flames of rumour.

 

Abramovich has not 'lost' ?12b -- the value of the shares in his companies has dropped but he still has the same assets and shareholding -- it is the valuation of such that has dropped.

It is a similar story with our esteemed leader -- same assets but lower valuation -- if we look at Tom Farmer or David Murray they are in the same boat -- a bit like many peoples houses -- what was once worth ?250,000 has had its value halfed.

 

It is possible to talk yourself into a recession and we are allowing stories to gather legs and cause rumour and counter rumour to flourish -- some of which of course are not helped by the actions of the club owner.

[Jammy T]

That's what's lacking at the moment -- and that is the danger with threads like this -- no proof presented yet posters claim to know this and that yet funnily enough won't post any facts or sources.

 

The danger for us is the same that faced our banks -- a lack of confidence meaning a lack of lending causing the flow of funds to dry up.

 

I am sure there are a number of our hobo friends who have a quiet chuckle when the see what can be acheived if you just shout something long enough and loud enough -- and of course thare are plenty on here gullible enough to feed the flames of rumour.

 

Abramovich has not 'lost' ?12b -- the value of the shares in his companies has dropped but he still has the same assets and shareholding -- it is the valuation of such that has dropped.

It is a similar story with our esteemed leader -- same assets but lower valuation -- if we look at Tom Farmer or David Murray they are in the same boat -- a bit like many peoples houses -- what was once worth ?250,000 has had its value halfed.

 

It is possible to talk yourself into a recession and we are allowing stories to gather legs and cause rumour and counter rumour to flourish -- some of which of course are not helped by the actions of the club owner.

 

 

In the simplest sense its a paper loss mate - yes you are right

 

But you've got to look behind the figures and look at the businesses they are invested in. Then if they are owners of those businesses you need to look and see whether they need finance to keep the business ticking over

 

This isnt just some sort of paper exercise - not at the levels these guys are at

[Examiner]

Forewarned is forearmed?

 

Wish fulfilment?

[scott herbertson]

Forewarned is forearmed?

 

That only makes sense if

 

a) you have some facts you are acting on and therefore good reasons to feel 'warned' - if not you are just "forescared" or if you are a rabbit "foreskinned"

 

and/or

 

you are taking action.

 

If you are acting on a warning you believe to be genuine, can you let us know what action you have taken in response. If you have taken no action then I take it you have surrendered or 'gone over to the other side"

 

 

[jlo2]

do you think edinburgh council would grant planning permission if madfud wantd to sell our soul for his benefit and leave us homeless? i certainly don't! neither would the edinburgh community allow it as ar as i'm concerned.

But surely planning permission has already been granted following the Pieman/CALA fiasco.

[shaun.lawson]

Wish fulfilment?

 

Er, no. If there is a danger of administration, then it makes sense for us to be aware of what our options would be in such a scenario - and, indeed, if there's really any chance of it in the first place. I was discussing this with a mate earlier: I swear, if things went tits up, some people on here would blame the sceptics among us for driving Vlad away and making him feel unwelcome!

 

The entire world - and especially the world of banking - and even more the Russian financial world - is being affected at the moment. Our club is technically insolvent, and has been run in an insane way for many years; it also missed paying its staff its wages only a couple of weeks back. Given such a backdrop, it's really only natural to remain vigilant and prepared, even if such concerns prove entirely without foundation.

[shaun.lawson]

That only makes sense if

 

a) you have some facts you are acting on and therefore good reasons to feel 'warned' - if not you are just "forescared" or if you are a rabbit "foreskinned"

 

and/or

 

you are taking action.

 

If you are acting on a warning you believe to be genuine, can you let us know what action you have taken in response. If you have taken no action then I take it you have surrendered or 'gone over to the other side"

 

 

 

As I just posted to blackisle, it must be a good thing to at least be aware of what administration could mean, and what our options might be, as opposed to being left blundering around without a clue if it actually happened?

[iainmac]

But surely planning permission has already been granted following the Pieman/CALA fiasco.

 

The CALA deal never went ahead, never mind getting planning permission and, anyway, that would have been for a residential development. This is for a new stand.

[iainmac]

Er, no. If there is a danger of administration, then it makes sense for us to be aware of what our options would be in such a scenario - and, indeed, if there's really any chance of it in the first place. I was discussing this with a mate earlier: I swear, if things went tits up, some people on here would blame the sceptics among us for driving Vlad away and making him feel unwelcome!

 

The entire world - and especially the world of banking - and even more the Russian financial world - is being affected at the moment. Our club is technically insolvent, and has been run in an insane way for many years; it also missed paying its staff its wages only a couple of weeks back. Given such a backdrop, it's really only natural to remain vigilant and prepared, even if such concerns prove entirely without foundation.

 

Other than the scaremongering coming from hobos.net and "texts", where is that danger coming from? What do you mean by remaining "vigilant and prepared"?

[scott herbertson]

As I just posted to blackisle, it must be a good thing to at least be aware of what administration could mean, and what our options might be, as opposed to being left blundering around without a clue if it actually happened?

 

What administration means is easily available on the net

 

What our options are are also very clear. As supporters we could not afford to buy hearts out of administration and there is no white knight around. It depends who you mean by "we" I suppose but it seems to me none of us on this board have had an 'option' in respect of the ownership of Hearts since the Trust failed to buy the club.

 

What worries me is that the talk is just blundering around. No plans are being made, or are possible, so all the talk does is 'talk Hearts down' - that's the only effect I can see.

 

This isn't meant as a specific criticism of you Shaun - it's a general plea to end rumour based negative speculation which could damage Hearts, unless there is some specific alternative proposal to coalesce supporters around.

[jlo2]

The CALA deal never went ahead, never mind getting planning permission and, anyway, that would have been for a residential development. This is for a new stand.

I do not believe that CALA would have agreed to purchase the stadium without planning permission haveing been agreed.

 

CALA did actually conclude a deal to buy the stadium. It cost Vlad money to 'buy out' the deal after he invested in Hearts.

[Jammy T]

I know there is a fine line between discussion and debate, and then scaremongering.

 

But I dont fully get this attempted censorship of discussing administration.

 

Businesses are going bust left right and centre, we have "cloudy" finances to say the least and we are owned by a maverick whose business group covers just about every crashing market at the moment

 

Just because nothing is proven and just because some of the rumours are hobo based and just because they might be having a good old laugh because we are discussing it does not mean we shouldnt

[shaun.lawson]

Other than the scaremongering coming from hobos.net and "texts", where is that danger coming from? What do you mean by remaining "vigilant and prepared"?

 

I don't know. I don't even know if there is any danger at all! But put it this way: West Ham's board have insisted that what's happened in Iceland will have no affect on the club. Do you think Irons fans should take this at face value; or keep a watchful, concerned eye on things?

 

The one man keeping our club alive is a banker. His bank has been hit, as have almost every other on the planet; the situation is particularly serious in his part of the world; and we have had a number of significant cashflow issues at the club since he's been here. Keeping an open mind should surely be the very least we do in such a context, don't you think?

[shaun.lawson]

What administration means is easily available on the net

 

What our options are are also very clear. As supporters we could not afford to buy hearts out of administration and there is no white knight around. It depends who you mean by "we" I suppose but it seems to me none of us on this board have had an 'option' in respect of the ownership of Hearts since the Trust failed to buy the club.

 

What worries me is that the talk is just blundering around. No plans are being made, or are possible, so all the talk does is 'talk Hearts down' - that's the only effect I can see.

 

This isn't meant as a specific criticism of you Shaun - it's a general plea to end rumour based negative speculation which could damage Hearts, unless there is some specific alternative proposal to coalesce supporters around.

 

I'm still a bit puzzled by this if I'm honest. JKB can only be viewed by registered users: why would a creditor view a fans' forum, and be influenced by it?

[Jammy T]

 

This isn't meant as a specific criticism of you Shaun - it's a general plea to end rumour based negative speculation which could damage Hearts, unless there is some specific alternative proposal to coalesce supporters around.

 

THis isnt a dig at you at all, but having witnessed all the negative speculation and damage to Hearts reputation that Vlad has already caused, it is his approach at Hearts that has caused a lot of this "panic" or anxiety.

 

Were we owned by a little less of an enigma and a better communicator of his intentions there would not be the depth of discussion there is now.

 

Ultimately there is this amount of discussion because even if you are behind Vlad it is very difficult to be certain of precisely where his money is, if there is any, and what his intentions are, or how they have changed if his businesses are under pressure

 

So, like most things on this board, we are discussing this issue to death principally because of the person we are unfortunate enough to call our "ultimate" owner

[iainmac]

I don't know. I don't even know if there is any danger at all! But put it this way: West Ham's board have insisted that what's happened in Iceland will have no affect on the club. Do you think Irons fans should take this at face value; or keep a watchful, concerned eye on things?

 

The one man keeping our club alive is a banker. His bank has been hit, as have almost every other on the planet; the situation is particularly serious in his part of the world; and we have had a number of significant cashflow issues at the club since he's been here. Keeping an open mind should surely be the very least we do in such a context, don't you think?

 

There's a difference between keeping an open mind and bringing about a self-fulfilling prophecy. This is dangerous territory and most of the danger is coming from our own supporters!! The tabloids and Hobos will no doubt be having a field day at this.

[scott herbertson]

I'm still a bit puzzled by this if I'm honest. JKB can only be viewed by registered users: why would a creditor view a fans' forum, and be influenced by it?

 

Evening news read it. Scitsman reads it, Euan cameron reads it, Hibs supporters read it - need I say more?

[iainmac]

I'm still a bit puzzled by this if I'm honest. JKB can only be viewed by registered users: why would a creditor view a fans' forum, and be influenced by it?

 

They could read newspapers though.

[shaun.lawson]

Evening news read it. Scitsman reads it, Euan cameron reads it, Hibs supporters read it - need I say more?

 

So we stop talking about it. Meanwhile, Hibs fans carry on, and Cameron and his ilk run with it. What's the difference?

[shaun.lawson]

They could read newspapers though.

 

Which will print stories and rumours regardless, whether we're discussing them or not.

[iainmac]

So we stop talking about it. Meanwhile, Hibs fans carry on, and Cameron and his ilk run with it. What's the difference?

 

The difference is Hearts fans (and neither of the 2 parties you mentioned above qualify) lend the "story" credibility by accepting it's veracity even although there appears to be not one shred of evidence to back the Administration claims up.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

The difference is Hearts fans (and neither of the 2 parties you mentioned above qualify) lend the "story" credibility by accepting it's veracity even although there appears to be not one shred of evidence to back the Administration claims up.

 

 

Do you not think court cases - which hae happened - by creditors along with non payment of wages are what led to these stories having some veracity and being chased by the media? That coupled with our accounts...

 

I do not think the rumours alone are enough

 

The rumours are brought about and treated with the power they are due to other factors

 

If we started rumours about other clubs they wouldnt have the same affect as well they pay their wages on time and their accounts paint a prettier picture

[shaun.lawson]

The difference is Hearts fans (and neither of the 2 parties you mentioned above qualify) lend the "story" credibility by accepting it's veracity even although there appears to be not one shred of evidence to back the Administration claims up.

 

Really? A group of fans talking pretty much as if they were down the pub can lend a story 'veracity', even if it's utterly unsubstantiated? I have to be honest: there have been many examples of administration in British football over recent years. And to the best of my knowledge, every one of them was the result of mismanagement behind the scenes - and not one because of what fans happened to have gossed about on an internet messageboard!

[iainmac]

Really? A group of fans talking pretty much as if they were down the pub can lend a story 'veracity', even if it's utterly unsubstantiated? I have to be honest: there have been many examples of administration in British football over recent years. And to the best of my knowledge, every one of them was the result of mismanagement behind the scenes - and not one because of what fans happened to have gossed about on an internet messageboard!

 

Even if? Where is the evidence?

 

Of course you're right - people spreading rumours about HBOS didn't have any detrimental affect on that business.......oh, wait.

[shaun.lawson]

Even if? Where is the evidence?

 

Of course you're right - people spreading rumours about HBOS didn't have any detrimental affect on that business.......oh, wait.

 

But that was a run on a bank, in common with many others. As long as we're paying people on time (and there's no reason to assume we're not), there's nothing any creditor can do.

[JAYEL]

Really? A group of fans talking pretty much as if they were down the pub can lend a story 'veracity', even if it's utterly unsubstantiated? I have to be honest: there have been many examples of administration in British football over recent years. And to the best of my knowledge, every one of them was the result of mismanagement behind the scenes - and not one because of what fans happened to have gossed about on an internet messageboard!

 

 

 

 

If you have any facts spit them out.

 

If not go back to your love in with the hobos.

 

[iainmac]

But that was a run on a bank, in common with many others. As long as we're paying people on time (and there's no reason to assume we're not), there's nothing any creditor can do.

 

Really? After reading this drivel, especially if it's printed in the tabloids, anyone owed money by HMFC might just be thinking about taking legal action to recover it. Maybe last week they weren't really worried as we've always paid up in the past?

 

Some people seem to be revelling in these rumours.

[shaun.lawson]

Really? After reading this drivel, especially if it's printed in the tabloids, anyone owed money by HMFC might just be thinking about taking legal action to recover it. Maybe last week they weren't really worried as we've always paid up in the past?

 

Some people seem to be revelling in these rumours.

 

Why would anyone be owed money by HMFC over 90 days? Because that's the only way a creditor could do something about it. Conversely, in HBOS' case, it was utterly powerless against a concerted run on the markets. I don't think the two are comparable at all, to be honest.