Turley Associates....Walk Away

[EH32 9FP]

Got this info direct from an architect of said firm (not an employee of their Edinburgh branch.)

 

Turley Assoc, who worked on the planning application for us, are in the process of commencing legal action to recover unpaid monies and are trying to serve a winding-up order at the beginning of the week.

 

It's got so serious, Turley have taken down the Tynecastle development from their website.

 

http://www.turleyassociates.co.uk/content/Home2.aspx

 

Please be respectful that I'm not in a position to reveal exactly who told me, for obvious reasons.

[Guest jambomickey]

Got this info direct from an architect of said firm (not an employee of their Edinburgh branch.)

 

Turley Assoc, who worked on the planning application for us, are in the process of commencing legal action to recover unpaid monies and are trying to serve a winding-up order at the beginning of the week.

 

It's got so serious, Turley have taken down the Tynecastle development from their website.

 

http://www.turleyassociates.co.uk/content/Home2.aspx

 

Please be respectful that I'm not in a position to reveal exactly who told me, for obvious reasons.

 

time will tell if your story is correct

[Dazo]

Got this info direct from an architect of said firm (not an employee of their Edinburgh branch.)

 

Turley Assoc, who worked on the planning application for us, are in the process of commencing legal action to recover unpaid monies and are trying to serve a winding-up order at the beginning of the week.

 

It's got so serious, Turley have taken down the Tynecastle development from their website.

 

http://www.turleyassociates.co.uk/content/Home2.aspx

 

Please be respectful that I'm not in a position to reveal exactly who told me, for obvious reasons.

 

 

If true it is a Non story, this happens at every club.

[Martin67]

Got this info direct from an architect of said firm (not an employee of their Edinburgh branch.)

 

Turley Assoc, who worked on the planning application for us, are in the process of commencing legal action to recover unpaid monies and are trying to serve a winding-up order at the beginning of the week.

 

It's got so serious, Turley have taken down the Tynecastle development from their website.

 

http://www.turleyassociates.co.uk/content/Home2.aspx

 

Please be respectful that I'm not in a position to reveal exactly who told me, for obvious reasons.

 

Architects normally invoice on the basis of 15% of their total fee due at sketch design stage with a further 20% due on submission of the planning application (they are due their money regardless of when or even if approval is given). This would mean that they would have invoiced at the end of January/early February 2008.

[Drylaw Hearts]

I was sent a pm earlier today saying we're being taken to court again and it could appear in the court listings sometime this week.

[Jammy T]

Got this info direct from an architect of said firm (not an employee of their Edinburgh branch.)

 

Turley Assoc, who worked on the planning application for us, are in the process of commencing legal action to recover unpaid monies and are trying to serve a winding-up order at the beginning of the week.

 

It's got so serious, Turley have taken down the Tynecastle development from their website.

 

http://www.turleyassociates.co.uk/content/Home2.aspx

 

Please be respectful that I'm not in a position to reveal exactly who told me, for obvious reasons.

 

You seem to be a poster that has been sceptical of "bad news" previously.

 

How do you feel about this? Genuine question - not being wide, just want to know if you are concerned or think it is hot air?

[Jammy T]

I was sent a pm earlier today saying we're being taken to court again and it could appear in the court listings sometime this week.

 

Remember - its good business practice making people wait to be paid over your credit terms.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Remember - its good business practice making people wait to be paid over your credit terms.

 

Everyone does it.

 

Hearts have done it forever and ever.

 

NON STORY. NOTHING TO SEE HERE.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Remember - its good business practice making people wait to be paid over your credit terms.

 

Of course it is.

 

 

 

I think we're up jobby creek.

[Jammy T]

Everyone does it.

 

Hearts have done it forever and ever.

 

NON STORY. NOTHING TO SEE HERE.

 

Depends whether it is CAN pay, wont pay or CANT pay, wont pay.....

 

And if you need to pay lawyers and interest charges for all these delays where the hell does it get anyone?

[Martin67]

Everyone does it.

 

Hearts have done it forever and ever.

 

NON STORY. NOTHING TO SEE HERE.

 

Is that the same as the dozens of other non stories that seem to be flying about just now. I know that there's a lot of nonsense rumours being started and believed by hobos, but there's just too much negative stuff currently surrounding Hearts for my liking.

[Dr. Bapswent]

These stories have been going on forever.

 

And people kep beleiveing them.

 

 

maybe one will eventually be true.

 

I dunno.

 

But im bored of them.

 

They are always started by someone with about 20 posts. Who then disappears and says nothing more.

 

I call that stirring,

 

yes one story may have fact. But the 500 before it might also...but didnt.

 

Ill worry when soemthing like this is confirmed in public. Not by someone ive never heard off on KB.

[EH32 9FP]

You seem to be a poster that has been sceptical of "bad news" previously.

 

How do you feel about this? Genuine question - not being wide, just want to know if you are concerned or think it is hot air?

 

Good question and I'll give an honest answer.

 

I'm watching our club descend into the abyss and if I seem as if I'm demonising it in any way then you have my wholehearted apologies.

 

Let me just say that I'm more than a bit miffed at the goings-on and I'm maybe suffering from barking psychosis, but if Turley have (and I have absolutely NO reason to doubt the information I was told) walked away, this is probably the reason the planning has stalled.

 

As another poster correctly pointed out, time will tell on the validity of my OP.

[Jammy T]

Good question and I'll give an honest answer.

 

I'm watching our club descend into the abyss and if I seem as if I'm demonising it in any way then you have my wholehearted apologies.

 

Let me just say that I'm more than a bit miffed at the goings-on and I'm maybe suffering from barking psychosis, but if Turley have (and I have absolutely NO reason to doubt the information I was told) walked away, this is probably the reason the planning has stalled.

 

As another poster correctly pointed out, time will tell on the validity of my OP.

 

Walking away is one thing

 

Bankrupting us is another.

 

Did you get any impression that this guy thought we COULDNT pay them as opposed to WOULDNT pay them

[Martin67]

Good question and I'll give an honest answer.

 

I'm watching our club descend into the abyss and if I seem as if I'm demonising it in any way then you have my wholehearted apologies.

 

Let me just say that I'm more than a bit miffed at the goings-on and I'm maybe suffering from barking psychosis, but if Turley have (and I have absolutely NO reason to doubt the information I was told) walked away, this is probably the reason the planning has stalled.

 

As another poster correctly pointed out, time will tell on the validity of my OP.

 

I was thinking the same thing myself re. the planning process for the stand. The architects could simply be refusing to prepare/send revised info to the planners until they are paid.

[Charlie-Brown]

Walking away is one thing

 

Bankrupting us is another.

 

Did you get any impression that this guy thought we COULDNT pay them as opposed to WOULDNT pay them

 

Most creditors serve winding up orders as a means to try to enforce overdue payments to get paid or settled.

[Cigaro]

Good question and I'll give an honest answer.

 

I'm watching our club descend into the abyss and if I seem as if I'm demonising it in any way then you have my wholehearted apologies.

 

Let me just say that I'm more than a bit miffed at the goings-on and I'm maybe suffering from barking psychosis, but if Turley have (and I have absolutely NO reason to doubt the information I was told) walked away, this is probably the reason the planning has stalled.

 

As another poster correctly pointed out, time will tell on the validity of my OP.

Surely beyond the point of apication, Turley would not be involved in the granting process, so could not stall it.

[EH32 9FP]

Walking away is one thing

 

Bankrupting us is another.

 

Did you get any impression that this guy thought we COULDNT pay them as opposed to WOULDNT pay them

 

I honestly don't know and I'm not sure he did either.

 

He didn't even have a ball-park on the amount, but suffice to say that all work has been suspended forthwith.

[Jammy T]

Most creditors serve winding up orders as a means to try to enforce overdue payments to get paid or settled.

 

And if it is not paid......it is a one way street

 

EVEN if Hearts can pay it are you defending the additional interest, court and legal costs to the club of such actions?

[Martin67]

Walking away is one thing

 

Bankrupting us is another.

 

Did you get any impression that this guy thought we COULDNT pay them as opposed to WOULDNT pay them

 

I think this is the big issue.

 

If Turley Associates haven't been paid by HMFC, it will be because the club doesn't have the cash to do so (as happened with the wages thing). This could easily be sorted out if the funds are transferred from Lithuania, but are UBIG/Vlad liquid enough to do this?

[Jammy T]

As an aside whether we are going bust or not it is stuff like this that brings me to the conclusion that this project under Romanov would be a disaster.

 

Falling out with everyone as it progressed, cutting costs and corners, sacking people, people walking away.

 

Lets hope the project is binned. It would be a nightmare with Vlad around

[Martin67]

Surely beyond the point of apication, Turley would not be involved in the granting process, so could not stall it.

 

They can if the planners are asking for the plans to be modified (even if it's minor details).

[Charlie-Brown]

And if it is not paid......it is a one way street

 

EVEN if Hearts can pay it are you defending the additional interest, court and legal costs to the club of such actions?

 

Hearts can't pay their bills because the club are losing money and clearly have major cash flow problems with more money due to be paid out than is coming in that is why UKIO Bankas have to subsidise the club as previously Bank of Scotland did - they probably want the overdraft level reduced at every step and recent events suggest they are only sending over money on a quarterly basis not monthly - the wage bill being a separate issue as they is paid (or not paid) weekly & monthly.

 

Iam not defending the club not being able to pay it's bills although it has been a big problem and Hearts have had a bad reputation for this ever since the 1970's.

 

Clearly we need to cut costs further and further player sales and letting people go is looking increasingly likely.

[EH32 9FP]

I think this is the big issue.

 

If Turley Associates haven't been paid by HMFC, it will be because the club doesn't have the cash to do so (as happened with the wages thing). This could easily be sorted out if the funds are transferred from Lithuania, but are UBIG/Vlad liquid enough to do this?

 

We quoted a figure of ?1m for the planning application on the official site. I'm not for one minute saying that Turley are due that amount, but they must have invoiced a fair whack of it to the club.

 

If the club/UBIG/Vlad do have cash problems, then this is going to be hard to stall, especially if a winding-up order is issued.

 

Why did Turley pull our plans from their website?

[LAIRDY14]

Most creditors serve winding up orders as a means to try to enforce overdue payments to get paid or settled.

 

There have been a few of these "winding up orders" that have went through the courts already,we pay at the last minute. Seems to be the way we conduct business.

[Francis Albert]

Does this mean the great Chatham Motors crisis is over? Or is it ongoing?

 

What about whatever it was that was going to put us in receivership by 15th January this year? Are we through that crisis yet?

[Martin67]

We quoted a figure of ?1m for the planning application on the official site. I'm not for one minute saying that Turley are due that amount, but they must have invoiced a fair whack of it to the club.

 

If the club/UBIG/Vlad do have cash problems, then this is going to be hard to stall, especially if a winding-up order is issued.

 

Why did Turley pull our plans from their website?

 

Were they ever even on their site? It's not exactly their biggest project.

[shaun.lawson]

Got this info direct from an architect of said firm (not an employee of their Edinburgh branch.)

 

Turley Assoc, who worked on the planning application for us, are in the process of commencing legal action to recover unpaid monies and are trying to serve a winding-up order at the beginning of the week.

 

It's got so serious, Turley have taken down the Tynecastle development from their website.

http://www.turleyassociates.co.uk/content/Home2.aspx

 

Please be respectful that I'm not in a position to reveal exactly who told me, for obvious reasons.

 

Um, one thing mate. I'm not questioning your info for a moment - clearly, we'll find out if you're right soon enough anyway - but I actually remember looking at Turley's website back when the redevelopment plans were announced last year. And their involvement with Hearts was hidden away in an article I had to search for even then. I've just checked, and found the exact same piece:

 

http://www.turleyassociates.co.uk/content/Aboutus/News2/article_2_93.aspx

 

So I don't think they have taken it down from the site, to be honest.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Most creditors serve winding up orders as a means to try to enforce overdue payments to get paid or settled.

 

Quite so.

 

And while we have this farcical situation of parachuting monies over from Lithuania as opposed to allowing proper financial planning of our budget, even if it is being cut (which it is), then these stories will continue.

 

I think the notices will go up and we will "miraculously" pay them just before they are due.

[LiamWallace]

jesus what next i've heard now planners caiterers polis planners now oh my god we are in so much trouble NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! actuallly getting sick of all this pash now and even if we do go to court or whatever well still be here and pay them off even if its last mintue the stands a stupid idea now anyway get the team sorted vlad ya MUPPETT!

[david mcgee]

As most people know, i have never been one to speak up on behalf of Vlad, but in this case it is probably entirely down to the credit crunch.

 

Around 80% of all planning applications have been mothballed, there is no point in building flats or hotels in the current environment.

 

Architects will be noticing a rapid fall in revenues and will be keen to call in any debts, especially money owed on applications which look likely to be shelved for a prolonged period.

 

It does not surprise me that this firm are chasing Vlad for money but they will be chasing many others.

 

Whether Vlad has the money to pay them?

Well thats another story.

[flood]

how many other teams in the SPL have these kind of stories?

 

I've not seen many....

[Craig-Section Z]

Vlads a multimillionaire is he not?? Did he gamble big on the horses to loose it all??

 

Why go to all the expense with the stand and then not bother paying any of it etc, why not just not bother with it to start with??

 

Am pretty sure its normal in the big world to stall paying bills, the money is better in ur pocket than theirs, do you all pay ur bills the day u get them through??

[felix]

Planning Consultants in late payment dispute shocker

[PTBCAL]

This is normal business practice for Hearts - wait until the baliffs arrive with the locks and chains before we pay.

 

However I find the way we treat customers a joke, but at the same time I do not read anything into the news someone is threatning legal action against Hearts or that we are going into adminstration next week, next month or even next year....

[felix]

As most people know, i have never been one to speak up on behalf of Vlad, but in this case it is probably entirely down to the credit crunch.

 

Around 80% of all planning applications have been mothballed, there is no point in building flats or hotels in the current environment.

 

Architects will be noticing a rapid fall in revenues and will be keen to call in any debts, especially money owed on applications which look likely to be shelved for a prolonged period.

 

It does not surprise me that this firm are chasing Vlad for money but they will be chasing many others.

 

Whether Vlad has the money to pay them?

Well thats another story.

 

Turleys are not architects..which questions the validity of the OP imho.

Furthermore..there is a point in building hotels in the current environment

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Lets hope that "technical glitch" is sorted out for when the judge tells us to pay up or be wound up

[Craig-Section Z]

how many other teams in the SPL have these kind of stories?

 

I've not seen many....

 

Well no others are going to have unpaid architects bills are they? No other clubs pay there wages like we do, via 2 banks. We are different. Plus no other clubs wud get the press we do for this.

 

Start worrying when the creditors reposes your seat!!

[david mcgee]

Turleys are not architects..which questions the validity of the OP imho.

Furthermore..there is a point in building hotels in the current environment

 

and the point is?

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Well no others are going to have unpaid architects bills are they? No other clubs pay there wages like we do, via 2 banks. We are different. Plus no other clubs wud get the press we do for this.

 

Start worrying when the creditors reposes your seat!!

 

Yes because St Mirren arent building a brand new stadium, Falkirk havent just started to develop a third stand, hibs didnt just spend time looking into a new east stand and a new training academy

 

The fact is the romanovs financial management and structure is shocking and is causing us massive negative PR not to mention financial implications and court appearences

 

If they dont trust the current staff with money sack them and get people in that do know what to do.

 

It only takes 1 creditor to get us wound up and the romanovs need to get a grip and stop taking the ****

 

I cant imagine judges would have much sympathy either

[felix]

and the point is?

 

The point was really twofold :.

The OP was speaking to and architect at Turleys - they're Planners and don't routinely employ architects - that questions the validity of the OP in my mind.

 

Secondly, you said there's no point in building flats and hotels in the current climate. You got one out of two - there's still money to be made in hotel development in Edinburgh.

[lost in leith]

Does this mean the great Chatham Motors crisis is over? Or is it ongoing?

 

What about whatever it was that was going to put us in receivership by 15th January this year? Are we through that crisis yet?

 

Got confirmation on Saturday that the Chatham story was utter mince. The contract was up for renewal. Hearts felt the deal on offer from Citroen in Glasgow was more attractive and went with that, rather than renewing with Chatham's.

 

Don't know anything about the Turley story. However, you don't need to be an insider to work out that a combination of the construction slump and the credit crunch's impact on UBIG's ability to raise funds means that the development will be put on ice, at best.

 

Vlad's reluctance to pay bills until the last minute is well known. If Turley are due a lot of cash it wouldn't be surprising if they present a winding up petition to force his hand. IIRC a similar petition was the source of the administration rumour earlier this year.

 

Disclaimer - none of this means that I am relaxed or happy about the way the club is being run

[I P Knightley]

Um, one thing mate. I'm not questioning your info for a moment - clearly, we'll find out if you're right soon enough anyway - but I actually remember looking at Turley's website back when the redevelopment plans were announced last year. And their involvement with Hearts was hidden away in an article I had to search for even then. I've just checked, and found the exact same piece:

 

http://www.turleyassociates.co.uk/content/Aboutus/News2/article_2_93.aspx

 

So I don't think they have taken it down from the site, to be honest.

 

Good man, Shaun, for (a) looking into this in detail and ( having looked into it in detail before. I hope your dedication to bringing sense and reason to JKB is not impairing your work at all!!

[Father Tiresias]

The point was really twofold :.

The OP was speaking to and architect at Turleys - they're Planners and don't routinely employ architects - that questions the validity of the OP in my mind.

 

Turley Associates are not the architects for this project. AFL Architects are.

[david mcgee]

The point was really twofold :.

The OP was speaking to and architect at Turleys - they're Planners and don't routinely employ architects - that questions the validity of the OP in my mind.

 

Secondly, you said there's no point in building flats and hotels in the current climate. You got one out of two - there's still money to be made in hotel development in Edinburgh. [

 

How and why is there money in hotel developement?

[felix]

The point was really twofold :.

The OP was speaking to and architect at Turleys - they're Planners and don't routinely employ architects - that questions the validity of the OP in my mind.

 

Secondly' date=' you said there's no point in building flats and hotels in the current climate. You got one out of two - there's still money to be made in hotel development in Edinburgh. [

 

How and why is there money in hotel developement?[/quote']

 

Because there's a shortage of bed spaces in Edinburgh and a demand to fill them.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

Because there's a shortage of bed spaces in Edinburgh and a demand to fill them.

 

That's right, because in a recession the last thing you stop doing is going on holiday!

[jlo2]

 

Because there's a shortage of bed spaces in Edinburgh and a demand to fill them.

That is a myth.

 

The shortage applies only during the five weeks that the Festival is running. There are plenty of empty beds for the rest of the year. Even before the current slump.

 

Besides the design looked more like serviced apartments than a conventional hotel.

[Only a Game]

 

Because there's a shortage of bed spaces in Edinburgh and a demand to fill them.

 

And of course the Edinburgh hotel industry is completely immune from things like the credit crunch and the global economic turn down.

 

Did you know, for example, that HBOS are (currently) the Edinburgh Hotel industry's number one corporate client and that they use more bedrooms EVERY month in Edinburgh than are used by the Edinburgh festival, Fringe and Tattoo.

[felix]

 

And of course the Edinburgh hotel industry is completely immune from things like the credit crunch and the global economic turn down.

 

Did you know' date=' for example, that HBOS are (currently) the Edinburgh Hotel industry's number one corporate client and that they use more bedrooms EVERY month in Edinburgh than are used by the Edinburgh festival, Fringe and Tattoo.[/quote']

 

What do you mean HBOS use more rooms per month than the festival ?

If you mean the bank have more corporate room lets than fringe performers and tattoo staff then so what. Most performers I know stay in digs and Edinburgh's 37,000 bed spaces are full in August due to tourists, not bank clients or fringe performers.

 

Of course the hotel industry isn't immune from the credit crunch but off the top of my head I can think of five new hotels in the city ploughing ahead at present (excluding Vlads) plus at least one ?10M major refurb.

 

This wouldn't be happening if occupancy rates were due to fall to a level that would make these developmenyts non-viable. You don't need 100% occupancy to make money - Edinburgh runs at 77% average - this is due to drop in the forthcoming years, but not to a level that's putting developpers off; yet.