The HBOS angle

[ChemicalJambo]

Wonder if the guys getting paid from Kaunas got their cash on time

[Salvatore's Tash]

Not by Hearts I don't think, they just say the payment has been processed and there's been a lot of fiction in the papers. Nothing about a transfer failing to take place

 

Okay but the wages weren't paid...now these wages get paid pretty automatically if the funds are available I would think. Its a fact our money all comes from Lithuania so...2+2 = 4. But....then again I could be wrong!!

 

[ChemicalJambo]

Okay but the wages weren't paid...now these wages get paid pretty automatically if the funds are available I would think. Its a fact our money all comes from Lithuania so...2+2 = 4. But....then again I could be wrong!!

 

 

Well you could be right, I don't know. You're assuming a transfer takes place every week from Ukio to HBOS, I've no idea if thats the way it works. Could come from Bosnia for all I know, but if you're saying its a fact from Lithuania then fair enough.

But do you actually factually know anything about how the process works? It seems to work differently for the Ukio branch staff if this report is accurate

 

From the Scotsman

 

'The six members of staff working on plans to launch a branch of Ukio Bankas in Edinburgh's Castle Street are said to have had no problems with wages. A spokeswoman for Ukio Bankas said: "Ukio Bankas operates as a separate company and is not having the same difficulties."

[Drylaw Hearts]

As per the EEN - the problem is that Vlad did not transfer funds (as normal practice) to HBOS a few weeks ago. I wonder why?

 

It wouldn't be because HBOS at that time were heading for financial meltdown and could well have gone to the wall??

 

I can just picture Vlads office a few weeks ago -

 

"OK time to transfer funds to HBOS to pay the wages. Wait a minute are they not going down the swanny??? Right hold the money until we find out if HBOS are sound"

 

Now the rescue deal is going through with Lloyds - business as usual?

 

I heard that reason from two other sources as well.

 

So it wasn't a 'technical hitch' then ?

 

UKIOS purposely didn't send any money to the HBOS account incase they went bust !!

 

Are you saying the Club have lied to us ?

[Salvatore's Tash]

Well you could be right, I don't know. You're assuming a transfer takes place every week from Ukio to HBOS, I've no idea if thats the way it works. Could come from Bosnia for all I know, but if you're saying its a fact from Lithuania then fair enough.

But do you actually factually know anything about how the process works? It seems to work differently for the Ukio branch staff if this report is accurate

 

From the Scotsman

 

'The six members of staff working on plans to launch a branch of Ukio Bankas in Edinburgh's Castle Street are said to have had no problems with wages. A spokeswoman for Ukio Bankas said: "Ukio Bankas operates as a separate company and is not having the same difficulties."

 

The account Ukio use must not have been at its OD limit. Ok the money comes from Somewhere Lithuania, Bosnia...Mars.

[Francis Albert]

So it wasn't a 'technical hitch' then ?

 

UKIOS purposely didn't send any money to the HBOS account incase they went bust !!

 

Are you saying the Club have lied to us ?

 

As has been posted before, they would hardly (in the scenario being put forward as a possibility) announce that they acted because they thought HBOS was going bust.

 

Would they?

 

So yes perhaps we were "lied" to.

 

Of course in all the recent financial turmoil, everyone else has always told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[Drylaw Hearts]

As has been posted before, they would hardly (in the scenario being put forward as a possibility) announce that they acted because they thought HBOS was going bust.

 

Would they?

 

So yes perhaps we were "lied" to.

 

Of course in all the recent financial turmoil, everyone else has always told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

 

But surely when they decided that the money wasn't going anywhere near HBOS they then should have arranged direct tranfers from UKIOS of all the monies due to the players into the relevent accounts ?

 

Or am I making the procedure too simple ?

[ChemicalJambo]

The account Ukio use must not have been at its OD limit. Ok the money comes from Somewhere Lithuania, Bosnia...Mars.

 

Thats the point I'm trying to make, nobody knows what the problem is/was.

 

could be somebody forgot to send money,

could be a Ukio system problem,

could be a lithuania clearing problem,

could be mad vlad thought hbos were going bust so didn't send,

could be hbos pulled a higher overdraft limit after the lloyds merger,

could be ukio didn't have enough available funds to send anything and we'll be bust in a few weeks.

 

I agree its Hearts/Ukios fault for not getting money into employees accounts, but as to the reason why I don't think anyone knows

[Francis Albert]

But surely when they decided that the money wasn't going anywhere near HBOS they then should have arranged direct tranfers from UKIOS of all the monies due to the players into the relevent accounts ?

 

Or am I making the procedure too simple ?

 

Depends when they decided. In my experience a week is not a long time when it comes to changing bank payment transfers.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Depends when they decided. In my experience a week is not a long time when it comes to changing bank payment transfers.

 

I know nothing about banking tbh but I think the OP is a load of guff.

[Francis Albert]

I know nothing about banking tbh but I think the OP is a load of guff.

 

Quite possibly.

 

But I think most of what has been posted on the delayed payment issue falls squarely in that category.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Quite possibly.

 

But I think most of what has been posted on the delayed payment issue falls squarely in that category.

 

Quite possibly.

[siegementality]

No doubt the same was said of Lehmanns and Merrill Lynch. If HBOS was such a sound business why did the UK Government have to coerce Lloyds TSB to bail them out AND completely over-ride UK Competition Laws to make it happen? Deciding to delay money transfer for a week is surely less of a panic measure than the UK Government's.

 

Amazing that, as major Western financial institutions including what passed as the "national bank" of our almost-nation disappear down the toilet, we (Chick Young at the forefront as usual, salary guaranteed by the license payers) can maintain this lofty superiority to these dodgy East Europeans.

 

 

So if all these companies can go down the tubes then explain to me why the same can't happen to UBIG?

[Sheriff Fatman]

So if all these companies can go down the tubes then explain to me why the same can't happen to UBIG?

They could, but as they are not really exposed to the bad debt stemming from the sub-prime market in America, and the knock on effects on the mortgage market and the banking industry in the UK there is little reason to suspect that any collapse is likely for the forseeable future. Add to that the increase in profits at UKIO, the major banking connection that UBIG has, it is even lesslikely.

[siegementality]

They could, but as they are not really exposed to the bad debt stemming from the sub-prime market in America, and the knock on effects on the mortgage market and the banking industry in the UK there is little reason to suspect that any collapse is likely for the forseeable future. Add to that the increase in profits at UKIO, the major banking connection that UBIG has, it is even lesslikely.

 

OK then. I'm going to be really,really primitive here,when SF turned up yesterday to hold a meeting with staff why didn't he crack the cheque book open and pay them all there and then. Cheques in the bank, biff, bash, bosh, end of story.

[ChemicalJambo]

OK then. I'm going to be really,really primitive here,when SF turned up yesterday to hold a meeting with staff why didn't he crack the cheque book open and pay them all there and then. Cheques in the bank, biff, bash, bosh, end of story.

 

If you mean Ukio cheques, they wouldn't be accepted in UK banks

 

But if it was HBOS ones then as a payment is being processed then issueing cheques would end up with double payment

[Sheriff Fatman]

OK then. I'm going to be really,really primitive here,when SF turned up yesterday to hold a meeting with staff why didn't he crack the cheque book open and pay them all there and then. Cheques in the bank, biff, bash, bosh, end of story.

 

Probably for the same reason they didn't just pay directly into the staffs accounts yesterday, the money transfer from Lithuania had not cleared. I don't think they could have payed with cheques from accounts in Lithuania either due to international money transfer rules and taxation.

[Jambo1976]

I'm afraid a week is rather a long time in banking.

 

The longest a payment of this nature should take is 3 days(assuming it has been paid by BACS).

 

Paying by CHAPS is quicker, but more expensive.

 

Basically someone realised last Thursday that the payment had not been processed correctly, so attempted to pay it on Tuesday. They screwed-up again and it now becomes a payment on Friday.

 

It has been said that the payment from Ukio to HBOS ia the problem, if so it could be something has been mis-quoted in the payment e.g. the SWIFT code.

 

Personally, I find the whole situation highly suspicious.

 

To screw-up any payment once is incompetant. To do it twice would be unforgiveable.

 

Assuming this is a regular transaction, 'technical problems' can happen once. They never happen again.

 

Lets not kid ourselves. Payments are made when you want them to be paid. Even well respected banks are no different in this respect. And I have first hand experience of this.

 

The bottom line is UBIG are not a large concern and relatviely speaking, the players wages do not represent a large transaction in banking terms.

 

That said, I sincerely hope I am wrong! I don't think I am though. Sorry.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Assuming this is a regular transaction, 'technical problems' can happen once. They never happen again.

 

Tell that to Pepsico, they used to screw up wages on a weekly basis, to single individuals, whole restaurants and whole regions

[Jambo1976]

Tell that to Pepsico, they used to screw up wages on a weekly basis, to single individuals, whole restaurants and whole regions

Nightmare. Like I say though, payments are made when you want to make them. I'm afraid I don't really buy in to Ukio being concerned about HBOS.

 

I have never posted before now and have always spoken out against doom-mongers, but this has me more than slightly concerned.

[siegementality]

Nightmare. Like I say though, payments are made when you want to make them. I'm afraid I don't really buy in to Ukio being concerned about HBOS.

 

I have never posted before now and have always spoken out against doom-mongers, but this has me more than slightly concerned.

 

 

Serious question, if you have never posted before now, who have you "always spoken out against doom-mongers" to?

[Charlie-Brown]

Serious question, if you have never posted before now, who have you "always spoken out against doom-mongers" to?

 

Human-beings in the real world maybe?

 

Not everybody lives in plato's cave that is JKB.

[Jambo1976]

Serious question, if you have never posted before now, who have you "always spoken out against doom-mongers" to?

Friends.

 

Sorry, not trying to get to political. Just very concerned about the situation.

 

Anyway, time to hit the hay. Let's hope this is all resolved on Friday.

 

Needless to say, if its a technical hitch someone needs there erse kicked. Bigtime.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Nightmare. Like I say though, payments are made when you want to make them. I'm afraid I don't really buy in to Ukio being concerned about HBOS.

 

Nor do I, but I do buy into human and/or computer error compounded by having to transfer money from one country to another.

[siegementality]

Human-beings in the real world maybe?

 

Not everybody lives in plato's cave that is JKB.

 

Says the man who is on here 18 hours a day! I'm begining to think you're a computer programme.

[Jambo1976]

You are right. The HBOS SWIFT code being misquoted would be the obvious one. There could also be a corrrespondant bank involved.

 

Sorry lads, I don't want to add to your concerns. It just that this is an unusual situation. I'm afraid transactions of this nature really aren't that complex.

 

Computer error is probably unlikely, but human error is certainly a possibilty. Let's hope thats what it is. Cheers.

[Charlie-Brown]

Says the man who is on here 18 hours a day! I'm begining to think you're a computer programme.

 

Nope bedtime & breakfast time only - sometimes 5 or 10 minutes at lunchtime - hardly ever / never during the day unless i'm off work.

[lambojambo]

Aye good excuse, talk about only seeing what you want to see.

 

 

 

DITTO my Friend, DITTO!

[lambojambo]

HOBS bank trf takes 5 days iirc from when I lived abroad.

 

 

 

Did you live abroad in an EU country - bank transfers from Eastern European countries take 7 to 10 days minimum!

[lambojambo]

Hibs, Killie and Dundee United to name but three, bank with HBOS.

 

No problems with their pay-runs.

 

Just a coincidence re Hearts then is it?

 

 

 

Hibs, Killie and DU all have overdraft facilities agreed with HBOS.

 

HBOS only act as a facilitator for Hearts so no overdraft facility in place - HBOS accept Vlads money, convert to sterling, process payment to players accounts and take a nice % charge for servicing the account.

[Bigsmak]

I love how everyone says; Vlad did this or Vlad didn't do that..

 

DO you really think that Vlad has anything to do with people getting their wages?

 

Honestly.. A multi Millionaire, banking leader having to transfer money to pay peoples wages. Laughable. -

 

Maybe their head accountant was sick, perhaps there was a power cut and they hadn't saved the files on the computer they were working on. Perhaps it was human error on part of a junior who is supposed to oversee the transfers.

 

Jeeze, crap happens.. My wages have been late before and it was a simple human mistake. I got them a few days late! No problem and it certainly wasn't reported in the Daily Ranger. I wonder what they would have been saying had we played Celtic or Rangers this weekend?

[lambojambo]

I have to say that this is verging on the fanciful to say the least. Romanov would have to be paranoid of institutional risk to the extent that he had shifted all of his money under his mattress!

 

Hbos as an institution, has/had a far more secure credit rating than Ukio Bankas and far more assets under management etc. It would be like a manager of a McDonalds turning down a meal at Claridges, because he fears the food wouldn't be upto scratch!

 

 

 

HBOS "credit rating" hit the skids BIG TIME during the week or so that their shares were plummeting!

 

As for their "assets under management" these would be worth diddily swat if they had gone into recievership - which was a real possibility until the Lloyds deal transpired.

[Bigsmak]

I'm afraid a week is rather a long time in banking.

 

The longest a payment of this nature should take is 3 days(assuming it has been paid by BACS).

 

Paying by CHAPS is quicker, but more expensive.

 

Basically someone realised last Thursday that the payment had not been processed correctly, so attempted to pay it on Tuesday. They screwed-up again and it now becomes a payment on Friday.

 

It has been said that the payment from Ukio to HBOS ia the problem, if so it could be something has been mis-quoted in the payment e.g. the SWIFT code.

 

Personally, I find the whole situation highly suspicious.

 

To screw-up any payment once is incompetant. To do it twice would be unforgiveable.

 

Assuming this is a regular transaction, 'technical problems' can happen once. They never happen again.

 

Lets not kid ourselves. Payments are made when you want them to be paid. Even well respected banks are no different in this respect. And I have first hand experience of this.

 

The bottom line is UBIG are not a large concern and relatviely speaking, the players wages do not represent a large transaction in banking terms.

 

That said, I sincerely hope I am wrong! I don't think I am though. Sorry.

 

 

4 posts since you have joined and all in this thread. Each of them sounding more like a doom merchant. Sounds like you are a HOBO on the wind up.

[lambojambo]

I know nothing about banking tbh but I think the OP is a load of guff.

 

 

That's what I love - a guy who admits he knows feck all about the subject, but expresses an opinion anyway.

 

Good man!

[Drylaw Hearts]

That's what I love - a guy who admits he knows feck all about the subject, but expresses an opinion anyway.

 

Good man!

 

Thanks.

 

But surely when they decided that the money wasn't going anywhere near HBOS they then should have arranged direct tranfers from UKIOS of all the monies due to the players into the relevent accounts ?

 

As I've said I know nothing about banking but as you appear to - maybe you can answer the question above !

[fila]

As per the EEN - the problem is that Vlad did not transfer funds (as normal practice) to HBOS a few weeks ago. I wonder why?

 

It wouldn't be because HBOS at that time were heading for financial meltdown and could well have gone to the wall??

 

I can just picture Vlads office a few weeks ago -

 

"OK time to transfer funds to HBOS to pay the wages. Wait a minute are they not going down the swanny??? Right hold the money until we find out if HBOS are sound"

 

Now the rescue deal is going through with Lloyds - business as usual?

 

Might have have been the case, but I know HBOS had put a Monitor status on us last week.

[Randle P McMurphy]

As someone who works in the exciting world of payroll, most companies pay out their payroll costs from a specific non interest paying account. The monies are normally transferred to this account as late as possible however this account normally has a significant overdraft facility attached to it should the funds be late in arriving. It could be that with the late or non transference of funds that in the current climate HBOS may have been nervous about allowing this overdraft facility and withdrawn it. Then again I am fairly sure that they wouldn't have done it to my company (16,000 strong) as the knock on effect to them would be a significant loss of business.

[Jambo83]

I'm afraid a week is rather a long time in banking.

 

The longest a payment of this nature should take is 3 days(assuming it has been paid by BACS).

 

3 days? Yes, perhaps for payments within the same country, but not for an international payment. I think 5-7 days is a bit more realistic.

[Spellczech]

Thanks.

 

 

 

As I've said I know nothing about banking but as you appear to - maybe you can answer the question above !

 

I can answer that question. International transfers have to be set up. The usual method is HOBs. When I lived in Germany it took me a week and a half to set up HOBs between HBOS and Hypovereinsbank AG. It then took 5 days for every transfer I made, and remember everything was already set up and in place and I was transferring my own money to myself in a foreign country. To set up a transfer from UKIO to the players accounts would have needed signatures from all the players on documentation. ie they'd still be waiting for their money next month.

[Spellczech]

Might have have been the case, but I know HBOS had put a Monitor status on us last week.

 

And many of their customers also did likewise to them. Anyone with less than the Govt insured amount would have been fine but HBOS told Gordon Brown directly that people had started to withdraw money from them and that they thought a run on the bank was imminent.

[spacerjoe]

As per the EEN - the problem is that Vlad did not transfer funds (as normal practice) to HBOS a few weeks ago. I wonder why?

 

It wouldn't be because HBOS at that time were heading for financial meltdown and could well have gone to the wall??

 

I can just picture Vlads office a few weeks ago -

 

"OK time to transfer funds to HBOS to pay the wages. Wait a minute are they not going down the swanny??? Right hold the money until we find out if HBOS are sound"

 

Now the rescue deal is going through with Lloyds - business as usual?

 

Um, if they had the foresight to have seen this coming, they surely would have had the foresight to make other arrangements?

[lambojambo]

I can answer that question. International transfers have to be set up. The usual method is HOBs. When I lived in Germany it took me a week and a half to set up HOBs between HBOS and Hypovereinsbank AG. It then took 5 days for every transfer I made, and remember everything was already set up and in place and I was transferring my own money to myself in a foreign country. To set up a transfer from UKIO to the players accounts would have needed signatures from all the players on documentation. ie they'd still be waiting for their money next month.

 

 

Thank you - saved me a bit of typing!

[lambojambo]

Um, if they had the foresight to have seen this coming, they surely would have had the foresight to make other arrangements?

 

 

Um, haven't thought that one through have we?

 

Not a case of "foresight" more a case of quickly reacting to the bad vibes coming out regarding HBOS financial postion.

 

The situation changed rapidly by the hour until Brown had to call in Lloyds to stop a run on HBOS. Vlad hardly had time "to make other arrangements" now did he?

[Guest Scottish Cup Semi 2006]

As per the EEN - the problem is that Vlad did not transfer funds (as normal practice) to HBOS a few weeks ago. I wonder why?

 

It wouldn't be because HBOS at that time were heading for financial meltdown and could well have gone to the wall??

 

I can just picture Vlads office a few weeks ago -

 

"OK time to transfer funds to HBOS to pay the wages. Wait a minute are they not going down the swanny??? Right hold the money until we find out if HBOS are sound"

 

Now the rescue deal is going through with Lloyds - business as usual?

 

How would Vlad Kow what HBOS were about to do ??

 

Also why send a flunky to say everythings OK - could that not have been done by email.

 

I think there is no smoke without fire - the finances of almost every business in the UK/US/Europe will be affected so how can you rationally think that we won't be ???

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Which of them have a foreign owner which transfers the wages from a foreign country to the HBOS current account?

 

Great system, ain't it?

[Francis Albert]

So if all these companies can go down the tubes then explain to me why the same can't happen to UBIG?

 

I don't think anyone has suggested it can't happen to UBIG. But it hasn't, whereas it has happened to HBOS, Lehmann, Merill Lynch, Northern Rock etc etc.

 

My point was that we have been hearing scare stories about dodgy East Europeans for over three years. The BBC devoted a whole documentary on Vlad's supposed dodginess (it amounted to the heinous crime - well no, absolutely legal and universal practice - of tax avoidance).

 

I missed the BBC expose of HBOS and the others.

[coppercrutch]

I can answer that question. International transfers have to be set up. The usual method is HOBs. When I lived in Germany it took me a week and a half to set up HOBs between HBOS and Hypovereinsbank AG. It then took 5 days for every transfer I made, and remember everything was already set up and in place and I was transferring my own money to myself in a foreign country. To set up a transfer from UKIO to the players accounts would have needed signatures from all the players on documentation. ie they'd still be waiting for their money next month.

 

You sure about that ? I am sure when I was in Oz years back I got an International telegraphic transfer in the space of hours - IIRC.

[Spellczech]

You sure about that ? I am sure when I was in Oz years back I got an International telegraphic transfer in the space of hours - IIRC.

 

Yep. It was not a one off transfer at comparatively high cost through an intermediary like Western Union. If was a link between 2 online accounts that I could use as often as I liked for ?5 a pop. Who is going to do payroll transfers by Western Union? If that happened I would think them totally barmy...

[Spellczech]

Great system, ain't it?

 

Not as daft as a bank holding a cash amount in a current account in a foreign bank...

[coppercrutch]

Yep. It was not a one off transfer at comparatively high cost through an intermediary like Western Union. If was a link between 2 online accounts that I could use as often as I liked for ?5 a pop. Who is going to do payroll transfers by Western Union? If that happened I would think them totally barmy...

 

Unless I am mistaken 2 banks can do a telegraphic transfer that is pretty sharpish (Within a day) . Nothing to do with Western Union like places.

 

I am sure I did this a few years back. May be mistaken thought but don't think so.