The HBOS angle

[lambojambo]

As per the EEN - the problem is that Vlad did not transfer funds (as normal practice) to HBOS a few weeks ago. I wonder why?

 

It wouldn't be because HBOS at that time were heading for financial meltdown and could well have gone to the wall??

 

I can just picture Vlads office a few weeks ago -

 

"OK time to transfer funds to HBOS to pay the wages. Wait a minute are they not going down the swanny??? Right hold the money until we find out if HBOS are sound"

 

Now the rescue deal is going through with Lloyds - business as usual?

[speedbump]

Could be the case but who knows?

[Fraggle]

As per the EEN - the problem is that Vlad did not transfer funds (as normal practice) to HBOS a few weeks ago. I wonder why?

 

It wouldn't be because HBOS at that time were heading for financial meltdown and could well have gone to the wall??

 

I can just picture Vlads office a few weeks ago -

 

"OK time to transfer funds to HBOS to pay the wages. Wait a minute are they not going down the swanny??? Right hold the money until we find out if HBOS are sound"

 

Now the rescue deal is going through with Lloyds - business as usual?

 

 

Dont know about that, possible?

 

On the other hand it could well be we have witnessed a very similar turn of events that HBOS experienced last week, albiet on a much smaller scale!!

 

That would be the power the media has to convince people something is going to happen that wont.

[Nucky Thompson]

As per the EEN - the problem is that Vlad did not transfer funds (as normal practice) to HBOS a few weeks ago. I wonder why?

 

It wouldn't be because HBOS at that time were heading for financial meltdown and could well have gone to the wall??

 

I can just picture Vlads office a few weeks ago -

 

"OK time to transfer funds to HBOS to pay the wages. Wait a minute are they not going down the swanny??? Right hold the money until we find out if HBOS are sound"

 

Now the rescue deal is going through with Lloyds - business as usual?

I heard that reason from two other sources as well.

[The Brow]

The amount of drama queens, doommongers and just general levels of complete bullsht on kickback this week has been astonishing. Nobody knows for sure why this happened yet that doesnt stop people bumping their gums and getting their knickers in a twist.

 

And for gods sake, dont suggest something reasonable (such as this)!

 

FWIW I am happy to sit back and wait till friday and see if the players get paid. This happens at most work places from time to time. I have to laugh at the amount of "there should be systems in place that stop this happening". Sometimes processes break down folks. Im sure everybody has had it happen to them. If not then you're in the minority.

 

Now, lets all calm down and act like the grown up men we're supposed to be.

[Nucky Thompson]

The amount of drama queens, doommongers and just general levels of complete bullsht on kickback this week has been astonishing. Nobody knows for sure why this happened yet that doesnt stop people bumping their gums and getting their knickers in a twist.

 

And for gods sake, dont suggest something reasonable (such as this)!

 

FWIW I am happy to sit back and wait till friday and see if the players get paid. This happens at most work places from time to time. I have to laugh at the amount of "there should be systems in place that stop this happening". Sometimes processes break down folks. Im sure everybody has had it happen to them. If not then you're in the minority.

 

Now, lets all calm down and act like the grown up men we're supposed to be.

You don't have to wait till Friday mate, it's been sorted this afternoon;)

[The Brow]

You don't have to wait till Friday mate, it's been sorted this afternoon;)

 

Thank *** for that. Might make kickback a but more enjoyable than its been for the past few days! The amount of grown men with their knickers in a twist over nothing has been ridiculous.

[Benzinho]

This is entirely IMO, going on what we do know and a little bit of supposition but I reckon the most likely story is that there was some kind of technical glitch at the Ukio end initially and they thought it would be easy enough to go to HBOS and get a temporary overdraft to make the payments in the meantime while the glitch was sorted, hence the initial statment about payments being made early this week.

 

However, due to everything going on with HBOS, they refused the overdraft so Ukio had to delay the payments further until the glitch had been sorted, hence the delay from the initial statement.

 

Either that or we're all doomed!

[Remnants of Standards]

Um, still begs the question why this only happened to us, and not any of the other 91 senior clubs in the UK doesn't it...or am i scaremongering too?

[Guest gorgie kev]

Couple of months ago my wages were a week late going into the bank.So going by some peoples thinking on here it meant that DHL was about to go tits up then:rolleyes:

[Dr. Bapswent]

And of course, if Vlad had sent the money, HBOS might not have been in such trouble, and therefore its actually Vlad's fault HBOS has had to merge with Lloyds!

[Benzinho]

Um, still begs the question why this only happened to us, and not any of the other 91 senior clubs in the UK doesn't it...or am i scaremongering too?

 

Because not all of the 91 other clubs use HBOS and I'm pretty certain that we are the only club using Ukio Bankas.

[Cigaro]

Perhaps we're the ony club this has come out about.

 

Wouldnt surprise me that Hearts coudnt keep these things under wraps, where other clubs could.

[Remnants of Standards]

fair enough on the ukio point, but there are other foreign owners of other UK clus who no doubt transfer money into the UK (perhaps through HBOS??) to pay wages etc. Why haven't they been affected is my point while we clearly have?

[Nucky Thompson]

Um, still begs the question why this only happened to us, and not any of the other 91 senior clubs in the UK doesn't it...or am i scaremongering too?

Because all the other clubs don't rely on a foreign bank to release the funds via a British bank. As the OP suggested Vlad delayed payment to HBOS because he was paranoid they were going tits up.

[The Brow]

Um, still begs the question why this only happened to us, and not any of the other 91 senior clubs in the UK doesn't it...or am i scaremongering too?

 

You're not scaremongering, your just asking pointless questions that will never be answered. Who knows how it happened. Things like this happen tho and thats the point! Its sorted now so untwist your panties and take a deep breath.

[Benzinho]

fair enough on the ukio point, but there are other foreign owners of other UK clus who no doubt transfer money into the UK (perhaps through HBOS??) to pay wages etc. Why haven't they been affected is my point while we clearly have?

 

Because Ukio was the only one that had a 'technical glitch' which prevented the money being transferred to the HBOS acount, as per my post above.*

 

*If my version of events is correct.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

As per the EEN - the problem is that Vlad did not transfer funds (as normal practice) to HBOS a few weeks ago. I wonder why?

 

It wouldn't be because HBOS at that time were heading for financial meltdown and could well have gone to the wall??

 

I can just picture Vlads office a few weeks ago -

 

"OK time to transfer funds to HBOS to pay the wages. Wait a minute are they not going down the swanny??? Right hold the money until we find out if HBOS are sound"

 

Now the rescue deal is going through with Lloyds - business as usual?

 

Don't think so. It was only last week that traders started short-selling HBOS shares. Here is a graph of HBOS shares for the past 3 months, no hint of any problems prior to last week, so I don't know how Romanov would have known something from Lithuania weeks ago that market-makers here didn't.

 

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/shares/3/23174/three_month.stm

[lambojambo]

Don't think so. It was only last week that traders started short-selling HBOS shares. Here is a graph of HBOS shares for the past 3 months, no hint of any problems prior to last week, so I don't know how Romanov would have known something from Lithuania weeks ago that market-makers here didn't.

 

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/shares/3/23174/three_month.stm

 

 

The rumours about HBOS have been rife for months.

 

Going by the graph, HBOS shares starting plunging around 8th September - just when Vlad was due to transfer funds to them.

 

Anyway - wages now paid! I know this will be a disappointment to many!

[marshallschunkychicken]

I wouldn't have thought that would have been the case purely because if UBIG were withholding funds due to concerns about an unrelated company, HBOS, we probably would have been told, rather than fobbed off with a 'technical glitch'.

 

Sounds like a cash-flow issue with UBIG to me. Time will tell if it will be an issue in future.

[whatthehellisgoingon?]

The HBOS shares were plumitting between 15th and 17th.

The players were not paid on 19th.

If things were starting to go t!ts up on Monday, why would Romanov not been aware of this and cancelled the transfer?

I don't imagine that he leaves his money in the UK account for any longer than is necessary so is it not likely that he would have a transer set up to run ordinarily at close of play Wed to then be transferred back out to the players at close of play Thurs?

[londonjambo]

Um, still begs the question why this only happened to us, and not any of the other 91 senior clubs in the UK doesn't it...or am i scaremongering too?

 

Because there's a lot more than 92 senior clubs in the UK ??

 

Ing-er-land, maybe, but not the UK.

 

Cue yawnsome anti-SNP rant from you-know-who

 

GC

[Walter Bishop]

The rumours about HBOS have been rife for months.

 

Going by the graph, HBOS shares starting plunging around 8th September - just when Vlad was due to transfer funds to them.

 

Anyway - wages now paid! I know this will be a disappointment to many!

 

Hold your horses, nothing in bank accounts yet!!

[lambojambo]

The HBOS shares were plumitting between 15th and 17th.

The players were not paid on 19th.

If things were starting to go t!ts up on Monday, why would Romanov not been aware of this and cancelled the transfer?

I don't imagine that he leaves his money in the UK account for any longer than is necessary so is it not likely that he would have a transer set up to run ordinarily at close of play Wed to then be transferred back out to the players at close of play Thurs?

 

 

The EEN stated that the problem was that funds had not been transferred to HBOS at the early part of the month.

 

From my business experience, oversees bank transfers can take 7 to 10 days to conclude.

[lambojambo]

Hold your horses, nothing in bank accounts yet!!

 

 

 

Are you reading off Chick Youngs script???

[lambojambo]

I wouldn't have thought that would have been the case purely because if UBIG were withholding funds due to concerns about an unrelated company, HBOS, we probably would have been told, rather than fobbed off with a 'technical glitch'.

 

Sounds like a cash-flow issue with UBIG to me. Time will tell if it will be an issue in future.

 

 

 

Yes I can just see UBIG making an official statement that they did not transfer funds because they did not trust HBOS!

[Spellczech]

As per the EEN - the problem is that Vlad did not transfer funds (as normal practice) to HBOS a few weeks ago. I wonder why?

 

It wouldn't be because HBOS at that time were heading for financial meltdown and could well have gone to the wall??

 

I can just picture Vlads office a few weeks ago -

 

"OK time to transfer funds to HBOS to pay the wages. Wait a minute are they not going down the swanny??? Right hold the money until we find out if HBOS are sound"

 

Now the rescue deal is going through with Lloyds - business as usual?

 

Possibility. And HBOS' troubles make it no surprise that they are not providing any flexibility existing overdrafts.

[Spellczech]

The EEN stated that the problem was that funds had not been transferred to HBOS at the early part of the month.

 

From my business experience, oversees bank transfers can take 7 to 10 days to conclude.

 

HOBS bank trf takes 5 days iirc from when I lived abroad.

[Blackdog35]

As per the EEN - the problem is that Vlad did not transfer funds (as normal practice) to HBOS a few weeks ago. I wonder why?

 

It wouldn't be because HBOS at that time were heading for financial meltdown and could well have gone to the wall??

 

I can just picture Vlads office a few weeks ago -

 

"OK time to transfer funds to HBOS to pay the wages. Wait a minute are they not going down the swanny??? Right hold the money until we find out if HBOS are sound"

 

Now the rescue deal is going through with Lloyds - business as usual?

 

Aye good excuse, talk about only seeing what you want to see.

[easthousesjambo]

sounds a good excuse

[Jambof3tornado]

Because all the other clubs don't rely on a foreign bank to release the funds via a British bank. As the OP suggested Vlad delayed payment to HBOS because he was paranoid they were going tits up.

 

You say paranoid I say concerned.

[Nucky Thompson]

You say paranoid I say concerned.

I had to say paranoid to keep everyone happy;)

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

Possibility. And HBOS' troubles make it no surprise that they are not providing any flexibility existing overdrafts.

 

 

Hibs, Killie and Dundee United to name but three, bank with HBOS.

 

No problems with their pay-runs.

 

Just a coincidence re Hearts then is it?

[Seymour M Hersh]

As per the EEN - the problem is that Vlad did not transfer funds (as normal practice) to HBOS a few weeks ago. I wonder why?

 

It wouldn't be because HBOS at that time were heading for financial meltdown and could well have gone to the wall??

 

I can just picture Vlads office a few weeks ago -

 

"OK time to transfer funds to HBOS to pay the wages. Wait a minute are they not going down the swanny??? Right hold the money until we find out if HBOS are sound"

 

Now the rescue deal is going through with Lloyds - business as usual?

 

Definitely plausible lj but in truth I doubt we'll ever know the real reason. I just hope it doesn't happen again. Well not to us anyway, the hobos though, that would be a hoot!

[Martin_T]

As per the EEN - the problem is that Vlad did not transfer funds (as normal practice) to HBOS a few weeks ago. I wonder why?

 

It wouldn't be because HBOS at that time were heading for financial meltdown and could well have gone to the wall??

 

I can just picture Vlads office a few weeks ago -

 

"OK time to transfer funds to HBOS to pay the wages. Wait a minute are they not going down the swanny??? Right hold the money until we find out if HBOS are sound"

 

Now the rescue deal is going through with Lloyds - business as usual?

 

I have to say that this is verging on the fanciful to say the least. Romanov would have to be paranoid of institutional risk to the extent that he had shifted all of his money under his mattress!

 

Hbos as an institution, has/had a far more secure credit rating than Ukio Bankas and far more assets under management etc. It would be like a manager of a McDonalds turning down a meal at Claridges, because he fears the food wouldn't be upto scratch!

[Biko]

I have to say that this is verging on the fanciful to say the least. Romanov would have to be paranoid of institutional risk to the extent that he had shifted all of his money under his mattress!

 

Hbos as an institution, has/had a far more secure credit rating than Ukio Bankas and far more assets under management etc. It would be like a manager of a McDonalds turning down a meal at Claridges, because he fears the food wouldn't be upto scratch!

 

Given the rumours doing the rounds last Wednesday would you have transfer ?100k to HBOS to pay your bills or waited a day or so to see what happened ?

[Spellczech]

Hibs, Killie and Dundee United to name but three, bank with HBOS.

 

No problems with their pay-runs.

 

Just a coincidence re Hearts then is it?

 

Which of them have a foreign owner which transfers the wages from a foreign country to the HBOS current account?

[Salvatore's Tash]

The only thing the wage dispute has to do with HBOS is the fact the company refused to increase Hearts overdraft beyond ?100k as reported. Meaning money was need from elsewhere. HBOS were not going bust...and within a few days of those rumours became the strongest bank in the UK by a mile. What's not to trust?? How many clubs bank with HBOS in the SPL?? I think the answer is pretty close to 10 out of 12.

[Sheriff Fatman]

and within a few days of those rumours became the strongest bank in the UK by a mile.

 

I think HSBC might have a valid arguement against you there, plus those few days would have been enough to make any transfer of funds too late anyway.

[Salvatore's Tash]

I think HSBC might have a valid arguement against you there, plus those few days would have been enough to make any transfer of funds too late anyway.

 

Banking row on JKB....HBOS and Lloyds versus HSBC in the UK?? They are breaking the competition rules to merge!!

 

And you think Vlad thought that HBOS was going bust so he didn't transfer?? Laughable.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Banking row on JKB....HBOS and Lloyds versus HSBC in the UK?? They are breaking the competition rules to merge!!

 

And you think Vlad thought that HBOS was going bust so he didn't transfer?? Laughable.

 

Actually, no I don't. I think that like 99.9% of cases of late wage payments that it is down to a simple human or computer error. Nothing to do with cash shortages or the HBOS debacle.

[Francis Albert]

Hbos as an institution, has/had a far more secure credit rating than Ukio Bankas and far more assets under management etc. It would be like a manager of a McDonalds turning down a meal at Claridges, because he fears the food wouldn't be upto scratch!

 

No doubt the same was said of Lehmanns and Merrill Lynch. If HBOS was such a sound business why did the UK Government have to coerce Lloyds TSB to bail them out AND completely over-ride UK Competition Laws to make it happen? Deciding to delay money transfer for a week is surely less of a panic measure than the UK Government's.

 

Amazing that, as major Western financial institutions including what passed as the "national bank" of our almost-nation disappear down the toilet, we (Chick Young at the forefront as usual, salary guaranteed by the license payers) can maintain this lofty superiority to these dodgy East Europeans.

[ChemicalJambo]

The only thing the wage dispute has to do with HBOS is the fact the company refused to increase Hearts overdraft beyond ?100k as reported. Meaning money was need from elsewhere. HBOS were not going bust...and within a few days of those rumours became the strongest bank in the UK by a mile. What's not to trust?? How many clubs bank with HBOS in the SPL?? I think the answer is pretty close to 10 out of 12.

 

But maybe they used to be flexible and increase it, whereas last week that stopped?? Was a pretty changable time for HBOS

 

Thing with this is banking is confidential so we'll never find out what exactly happened so this and anything else is pure speculation

[Salvatore's Tash]

But maybe they used to be flexible and increase it, whereas last week that stopped?? Was a pretty changable time for HBOS

 

Thing with this is banking is confidential so we'll never find out what exactly happened so this and anything else is pure speculation

 

Your right....all of this is speculation, fact is though...money failed to be transfered - wages not paid - UBIG's fault - nobody else's!!

[Francis Albert]

Your right....all of this is speculation, fact is though...money failed to be transfered - wages not paid - UBIG's fault - nobody else's!!

 

Of course you are right. Your speculation is fact. Others' speculation is just speculation.

[ChemicalJambo]

Your right....all of this is speculation, fact is though...money failed to be transfered - wages not paid - UBIG's fault - nobody else's!!

 

Agreed to a point. Not sure if its a problem with tranferring money or not, but bottom line is UBIG/Hearts along with whoever they chose to do business with have a duty to get money to their employees on time. They failed (as many organisations do), its their fault and all we can do is wait and see if they do get paid now and then I guess have a bit of a nervious wait to see if it ever happens again

[Salvatore's Tash]

Of course you are right. Your speculation is fact. Others' speculation is just speculation.

 

Well has it not been reported that the transfer failed to take place?? But has now gone through??

[Francis Albert]

Well has it not been reported that the transfer failed to take place?? But has now gone through??

 

Yes. But this whole thread is about speculation that someone took a rational decision not to transfer funds via HBOS when the financial community and the UK Government clearly thought HBOS was in danger of collapse. I don't have a clue whether the speculation has any basis in reality but it seems a legitimate bit of speculation to which the response "it's UBIG's fault - fact" doesn't seem to me an entirely knock-down argument.

[ChemicalJambo]

Well has it not been reported that the transfer failed to take place?? But has now gone through??

 

Not by Hearts I don't think, they just say the payment has been processed and there's been a lot of fiction in the papers. Nothing about a transfer failing to take place

[Salvatore's Tash]

Yes. But this whole thread is about speculation that someone took a rational decision not to transfer funds via HBOS when the financial community and the UK Government clearly thought HBOS was in danger of collapse. I don't have a clue whether the speculation has any basis in reality but it seems a legitimate bit of speculation to which the response "it's UBIG's fault - fact" doesn't seem to me an entirely knock-down argument.

 

The company which owns Hearts didn't pay the staff's wages on time from the clubs bank account. If thats not UBIG's fault I will never know what is!! I accept wages from time to time get paid late...but my employer and previous employer would have to take blame like UBIG regardless of the reasons.